Viking stole our money

[longterm]

Your story is unfortunate, and I've certainly signed agreements without reading all the fine print. Having read this thread, I went back and looked through the trip insurance I just bought for an expensive trip we're taking in 2 years to central Africa.

 

 

This is where a good hands-on travel agent would have made a big difference; the TA we're using for the Africa trip, for example, explained some things to me about the trip insurance I was about to buy, and possibly saved me from making a critical error.

 

Lots of folks on this forum, like me, are huge Viking fans, which is my only excuse for a snarky post; I don't think your situation was the fault of Viking doing something underhanded or improper, but merely following protocol with trip insurance, which is fairly complex and little-understood by most travelers who buy it.

 

As people who enjoy going on Viking cruises, we have a vested interest in their remaining popular and solvent, so I tend to jump to their defense when they're (in my personal opinion) wrongly accused of impropriety. Two lessons might be taken away from all of this: use a reputable and reliable travel agent, and always understand the caveats of trip insurance policies.

 

[Monkey486]

2 hours ago, bison2013 said:

 

 

What is useful is how CC and other boards are sources of good information. Most of the information results from 'bad' as well as 'good' personal experiences. So let's be more gracious when someone is sharing their experience or else no one will bother... to the detriment of the value of these boards.

 

I have sympathy for the OP as travel insurance/vouchers/deemed spent language etc is very confusing. I do not believe Viking is unique in this however. Although this future voucher thing seems like a Viking specific gong show.

 

Examples like this validate our personal commitment to decoupling offers- we do not bundle air with accommodation; we pay up for max flexibility to make changes on our terms where possible and never accept 'future use' vouchers as none of us can predict the future.

 

Thank you. I’m just now getting to the point to where I talk about this. It hurt me. I come on here and I’m attacked as an idiot who didn’t understand the fine print. I shouldn’t have to—agreements should be simple and forthright. I understand that legally Viking did not steal my money—but morally they did by taking advantage of a very obfuscatory system which protects big companies and gives them access to another stream of revenue. It is predatory and immoral.

[Monkey486]

4 minutes ago, longterm said:

Your story is unfortunate, and I've certainly signed agreements without reading all the fine print. Having read this thread, I went back and looked through the trip insurance I just bought for an expensive trip we're taking in 2 years to central Africa.

 

 

This is where a good hands-on travel agent would have made a big difference; the TA we're using for the Africa trip, for example, explained some things to me about the trip insurance I was about to buy, and possibly saved me from making a critical error.

 

Lots of folks on this forum, like me, are huge Viking fans, which is my only excuse for a snarky post; I don't think your situation was the fault of Viking doing something underhanded or improper, but merely following protocol with trip insurance, which is fairly complex and little-understood by most travelers who buy it.

 

As people who enjoy going on Viking cruises, we have a vested interest in their remaining popular and solvent, so I tend to jump to their defense when they're (in my personal opinion) wrongly accused of impropriety. Two lessons might be taken away from all of this: use a reputable and reliable travel agent, and always understand the caveats of trip insurance policies.

 

It was a very expensive lesson. I understand that legally that $9600 is ‘theirs’ because I did adequately protect myself from the less-than- upfront obfuscatory system which allows them to legally take advantage of people 

[longterm]

1 minute ago, Monkey486 said:

I understand that legally Viking did not steal my money—but morally they did by taking advantage of a very obfuscatory system which protects big companies and gives them access to another stream of revenue. It is predatory and immoral.

Insurance policies are by their nature very complicated; most people don't read them--I've never read my car insurance policy, but have had car insurance since I was 15 years old.

 

Is insurance weighted towards the insurer? Of course; it's essentially just a form of gambling, where insurers use statistics to determine an acceptable risk. Is it immoral? I would argue that it's not, since nobody forced us to buy insurance. Is it predatory? Again, I would argue not, since nobody vigorously encouraged me to buy trip insurance when I signed up for any of our Viking cruises.

 

Are insurance policies complicated? Absolutely. We're a litigious society.

 

[duquephart]

58 minutes ago, Monkey486 said:

Thank you. I’m just now getting to the point to where I talk about this. It hurt me. I come on here and I’m attacked as an idiot who didn’t understand the fine print. I shouldn’t have to—agreements should be simple and forthright. I understand that legally Viking did not steal my money—but morally they did by taking advantage of a very obfuscatory system which protects big companies and gives them access to another stream of revenue. It is predatory and immoral.

 

Wholeheartedly agree!

[2BERMUDA]

Maybe contact Christopher Elliot.  He has a staff that deal with theses types of issues.  Also try the Ombudsman from Condé Nast Traveler magazine.  There is no charge for their services.

 

good luck. Sorry that happened to you. That is a lot of money to lose.  Those voucher things caused problems for a lot of people.

[WanderingBrit]

1 hour ago, Monkey486 said:

Thank you. I’m just now getting to the point to where I talk about this. It hurt me. I come on here and I’m attacked as an idiot who didn’t understand the fine print. I shouldn’t have to—agreements should be simple and forthright. I understand that legally Viking did not steal my money—but morally they did by taking advantage of a very obfuscatory system which protects big companies and gives them access to another stream of revenue. It is predatory and immoral.

You made serious accusations of theft, suggesting that the blame entirely belonged to Viking, whereas it simply is not as straightforward as you first claimed - that's what is earning you backlash. Having positioned yourself first as the innocent victim of theft, you now cast yourself as the victim of unearned criticism - a pattern emerges.

 

If you had presented your story as a cautionary tale, a mea culpa for others to benefit from, the reaction would likely have been very different.

[Selion]

10MAY-200626_RiskFreeGuarantee.pdf

FWIW, the voucher's T&C took up less than half of page.  This was sent to me when the booking was only a hold on the cabin, before I made the deposit.  Now, did I read the entire Passenger Contract?  No.  But I read the Risk Free Guarantee T&C numerous times to know what the vouchers can and cannot do in case we need to change or cancel.  It came in handy when we had to change a Nov 2022 river cruise.

[Monkey486]

33 minutes ago, WanderingBrit said:

You made serious accusations of theft, suggesting that the blame entirely belonged to Viking, whereas it simply is not as straightforward as you first claimed - that's what is earning you backlash. Having positioned yourself first as the innocent victim of theft, you now cast yourself as the victim of unearned criticism - a pattern emerges.

 

If you had presented your story as a cautionary tale, a mea culpa for others to benefit from, the reaction would likely have been very different.

It was a cautionary tale. We are conditioned as Americans to accept the law as it is fashioned by our leadership as to ‘that is the way it is.’ I’m saying the way the law is structured is what allows big companies like Viking to make money through obfuscation. So yeah, I failed to protect myself from them. What Viking did was morally theft but legally permissible. I have every right to be pissed about being taken advantage of. People should not treat other this way, period. In all, I have been relieved of better than $9600 of my money because I got Covid having all of the insurance issues go past me to their benefit. This is not upfront and honest. Yeah, I suppose I’m not ‘innocent’ in regards to the law which requires me to be ever on guard against predators who take advantage of the fine print. I lost $9600 dollars. That hurts.

[Monkey486]

44 minutes ago, Selion said:

10MAY-200626_RiskFreeGuarantee.pdf 170.32 kB · 1 download

FWIW, the voucher's T&C took up less than half of page.  This was sent to me when the booking was only a hold on the cabin, before I made the deposit.  Now, did I read the entire Passenger Contract?  No.  But I read the Risk Free Guarantee T&C numerous times to know what the vouchers can and cannot do in case we need to change or cancel.  It came in handy when we had to change a Nov 2022 river cruise.

Expensive lesson. Got it.

[stephenandrew]

11 minutes ago, Monkey486 said:

It was a cautionary tale. We are conditioned as Americans to accept the law as it is fashioned by our leadership as to ‘that is the way it is.’ I’m saying the way the law is structured is what allows big companies like Viking to make money through obfuscation. So yeah, I failed to protect myself from them. What Viking did was morally theft but legally permissible. I have every right to be pissed about being taken advantage of. People should not treat other this way, period. In all, I have been relieved of better than $9600 of my money because I got Covid having all of the insurance issues go past me to their benefit. This is not upfront and honest. Yeah, I suppose I’m not ‘innocent’ in regards to the law which requires me to be ever on guard against predators who take advantage of the fine print. I lost $9600 dollars. That hurts.

FWIW, I would say that some of the reactions to your posts have been less than sympathetic.  When something bad happens, people are prone to emotional and potentially over reactions.  Pretty normal.  I find it somewhat “unkind” for others to immediately tell you how wrong you are, how right Viking is, how you are at fault for not reading the contract, hiring a TA, etc., etc.  Just because someone may be wrong doesn’t mean it is necessary or useful to pile on the injured party.  I think it sucks you lost $10K.  If that happened to me, I’d be upset too.  Move on….like all things, this feeling will pass.

[SJD117]

As a lawyer since 1981, I’ve written, interpreted, and litigated contracts that are far more complicated than a simple travel insurance policy. But even I have questions from time to time about a policy. So I drill down with the carrier before I sign up. If I don’t fully understand the coverage scope to my liking, then I look elsewhere. 

 

 

[Squawkman]

11 minutes ago, Monkey486 said:

It was a cautionary tale. We are conditioned as Americans to accept the law as it is fashioned by our leadership as to ‘that is the way it is.’ I’m saying the way the law is structured is what allows big companies like Viking to make money through obfuscation. So yeah, I failed to protect myself from them. What Viking did was morally theft but legally permissible. I have every right to be pissed about being taken advantage of. People should not treat other this way, period. In all, I have been relieved of better than $9600 of my money because I got Covid having all of the insurance issues go past me to their benefit. This is not upfront and honest. Yeah, I suppose I’m not ‘innocent’ in regards to the law which requires me to be ever on guard against predators who take advantage of the fine print. I lost $9600 dollars. That hurts.

Stop digging yourself deeper. Viking policies work both ways. The laws work both ways. There was no obfuscation, no moral theft, no predatory behavior. You took advantage of 125% credit rather than 100% cash back. Sure, I put myself in your place and would be just as angry if I lost that much money. Your experience made me realize even more that this situation may happen to me if I can’t follow through on a voucher-funded cruise booked for next year. On the other side of the coin, we came down with Covid at the beginning of a 2 week VO cruise last year. We were quarantined 12 of the 15 days - and were treated very well for something that was not directly Viking’s fault. And we’ve had a few other experiences where Viking bent over backwards to compensate us.
 

Please chalk it up to experience and move on.

[Monkey486]

1 hour ago, stephenandrew said:

FWIW, I would say that some of the reactions to your posts have been less than sympathetic.  When something bad happens, people are prone to emotional and potentially over reactions.  Pretty normal.  I find it somewhat “unkind” for others to immediately tell you how wrong you are, how right Viking is, how you are at fault for not reading the contract, hiring a TA, etc., etc.  Just because someone may be wrong doesn’t mean it is necessary or useful to pile on the injured party.  I think it sucks you lost $10K.  If that happened to me, I’d be upset too.  Move on….like all things, this feeling will pass.

I have. Life moves on and I have my health. It could be worse. Now I just want to spread the word to read carefully and protect yourselves against what I have suffered. There is differentiation between legal and moral. I was naive and I own that. Thank you for sympathizing.

[JVilleGal]

3 hours ago, 2BERMUDA said:

Maybe contact Christopher Elliot.  He has a staff that deal with theses types of issues.  Also try the Ombudsman from Condé Nast Traveler magazine.  There is no charge for their services.

 

good luck. Sorry that happened to you. That is a lot of money to lose.  Those voucher things caused problems for a lot of people.

Elliott.org

[JVilleGal]

Well I have cruised VIKING and am getting ready to cancel a trip “Knowing” I’m going to loose a $5,800 Voucher. But I fully understood the Terms and know since I can’t take this trip or a trip in 2024 that the voucher is lost. It hurts, but on the bright side I have booked an Antarctica trip for 2025 🙂

[Monkey486]

55 minutes ago, Squawkman said:

Stop digging yourself deeper. Viking policies work both ways. The laws work both ways. There was no obfuscation, no moral theft, no predatory behavior. You took advantage of 125% credit rather than 100% cash back. Sure, I put myself in your place and would be just as angry if I lost that much money. Your experience made me realize even more that this situation may happen to me if I can’t follow through on a voucher-funded cruise booked for next year. On the other side of the coin, we came down with Covid at the beginning of a 2 week VO cruise last year. We were quarantined 12 of the 15 days - and were treated very well for something that was not directly Viking’s fault. And we’ve had a few other experiences where Viking bent over backwards to compensate us.
 

Please chalk it up to experience and move on.

What? Huh? Well aren’t you special? We were offered no 125% incentive. We were told (first answer-see previous post) the voucher was the only option. Thank you for putting yourself in the place of losing $9600 to a major corporation protected by force of law. The issue largely lies with the worthlessness of the voucher, the lack of protection, of the voucher that was presented to me as the only option. (Stupid me did did not hang up right then and there to seek legal representation.) Morally it’s theft; but yeah they got law behind them. So yeah, here’s me with the shovel digging a hole… I know that legally I’m just out. I’ve been wrestling with this for over a year knowing that 99.9999999999999% doesn’t give one rats ass about me losing money. I’m glad Viking took care of you, but they £¥€|<€|> me. I’m relaying my story to say for people to be careful because Viking will be happy to take your money if you don’t protect against them.

[Monkey486]

2 minutes ago, JVilleGal said:

Well I have cruised VIKING and am getting ready to cancel a trip “Knowing” I’m going to loose a $5,800 Voucher. But I fully understood the Terms and know since I can’t take this trip or a trip in 2024 that the voucher is lost. It hurts, but on the bright side I have booked an Antarctica trip for 2025 🙂

That sucks.

[ropomo]

Not to belabor this issue but, as potential advice to others to avoid this situation in the future. Last year we were booked on Viking Mississippi (one of the first scheduled cruises). Unfortunately, we were informed a few weeks before embarkation that the cruise was cancelled because the ship was not yet ready (we already had our luggage tags). We were offered cash or vouchers with bonus. I sent an email to Steve at tripinsurancestore.com and outlined all information that I felt was relavent. About 30 minutes later he called me and educated me on all the ins and outs of the vouchers. He indicated that with the proper documentation, the base value of the vouchers could be insured with a third party. Documentation included proof of original payment, documents from Viking showing cancellation and rolling to voucher and new booking information. The important thing after this is to identify the initial payment date as the deposit date of the cancelled cruise. He then recommended several policies for our review. Steve is very helpful and knowledgeable and frequently has "town forums" here on CC. I suggest anyone making decisions about vouchers and unsure of exactly what they are doing to reach out to an expert.

[Monkey486]

1 hour ago, SJD117 said:

As a lawyer since 1981, I’ve written, interpreted, and litigated contracts that are far more complicated than a simple travel insurance policy. But even I have questions from time to time about a policy. So I drill down with the carrier before I sign up. If I don’t fully understand the coverage scope to my liking, then I look elsewhere. 

 

 

 Caveat emptor. I understand

[Monkey486]

2 minutes ago, ropomo said:

Not to belabor this issue but, as potential advice to others to avoid this situation in the future. Last year we were booked on Viking Mississippi (one of the first scheduled cruises). Unfortunately, we were informed a few weeks before embarkation that the cruise was cancelled because the ship was not yet ready (we already had our luggage tags). We were offered cash or vouchers with bonus. I sent an email to Steve at tripinsurancestore.com and outlined all information that I felt was relavent. About 30 minutes later he called me and educated me on all the ins and outs of the vouchers. He indicated that with the proper documentation, the base value of the vouchers could be insured with a third party. Documentation included proof of original payment, documents from Viking showing cancellation and rolling to voucher and new booking information. The important thing after this is to identify the initial payment date as the deposit date of the cancelled cruise. He then recommended several policies for our review. Steve is very helpful and knowledgeable and frequently has "town forums" here on CC. I suggest anyone making decisions about vouchers and unsure of exactly what they are doing to reach out to an expert.

We didn’t get Steve nor anyone like him on our many phone calls. We documented but that didn’t help. We didn’t seek legal help and that is our bad. It shouldn’t be this way but it is what it is.

[Monkey486]

7 hours ago, bison2013 said:

 

 

What is useful is how CC and other boards are sources of good information. Most of the information results from 'bad' as well as 'good' personal experiences. So let's be more gracious when someone is sharing their experience or else no one will bother... to the detriment of the value of these boards.

 

I have sympathy for the OP as travel insurance/vouchers/deemed spent language etc is very confusing. I do not believe Viking is unique in this however. Although this future voucher thing seems like a Viking specific gong show.

 

Examples like this validate our personal commitment to decoupling offers- we do not bundle air with accommodation; we pay up for max flexibility to make changes on our terms where possible and never accept 'future use' vouchers as none of us can predict the future.

 

Agreed. No one knows the future. The carriers can cash in on this.

[Monkey486]

5 hours ago, WanderingBrit said:

That would require legislative action, and lobbyists are keen to prevent that from happening.

 

The contracts I have related to our property in the UK are required to be written according to Plain English rules, and are markedly different than equivalent contracts in the US. But that happened as a result of laws being passed requiring it.

Obfuscation pays handsomely 

[JVilleGal]

21 minutes ago, Monkey486 said:

That sucks.

Yep it does and I knew Not to have/accept a voucher in the first place. On a brighter note I just booked Antarctica with VIKING and I like the product. Have just decided to move on…. But am I a fan of VIKING front office NO or their Policies NO… but their on board experience and crew are great.

PS I’m sorry you are taking such a loss it hurts… I get it!

Edited June 30, 2023 by JVilleGal

[JVilleGal]

22 minutes ago, ropomo said:

Not to belabor this issue but, as potential advice to others to avoid this situation in the future. Last year we were booked on Viking Mississippi (one of the first scheduled cruises). Unfortunately, we were informed a few weeks before embarkation that the cruise was cancelled because the ship was not yet ready (we already had our luggage tags). We were offered cash or vouchers with bonus. I sent an email to Steve at tripinsurancestore.com and outlined all information that I felt was relavent. About 30 minutes later he called me and educated me on all the ins and outs of the vouchers. He indicated that with the proper documentation, the base value of the vouchers could be insured with a third party. Documentation included proof of original payment, documents from Viking showing cancellation and rolling to voucher and new booking information. The important thing after this is to identify the initial payment date as the deposit date of the cancelled cruise. He then recommended several policies for our review. Steve is very helpful and knowledgeable and frequently has "town forums" here on CC. I suggest anyone making decisions about vouchers and unsure of exactly what they are doing to reach out to an expert.

Steve is great and has written all our TI… and he insured my Voucher after much research. Sadly I am not cancelling for a covered reason and that was no surprise either.