SCARLET LADY ACCIDENT IN PORT?

[Cloud9 Bob]

3 hours ago, WanderingTravels said:

 

The Captain is ultimately responsible because the pilot is just there as an advisor.

 

Makes sense. Thanks!

 

Is there anyone here that was on the ship when it bumped its tush? Did you hear anything or feel it? 

Edited July 18, 2023 by Cloud9 Bob

[cantgetin]

17 minutes ago, Cloud9 Bob said:

 

Makes sense. Thanks!

 

Is there anyone here that was on the ship when it bumped its tush? Did you hear anything or feel it? 

If you watch the port cam, there were some people on the running track who went over to the side, presumably to try to see what was happening.  Why would anyone be out running at that hour of the morning?  That's real dedication.

[aviators99]

25 minutes ago, cantgetin said:

If you watch the port cam, there were some people on the running track who went over to the side, presumably to try to see what was happening.  Why would anyone be out running at that hour of the morning?  That's real dedication.

The people I see are on 15. Not the running track 

[CineGraphic]

1 hour ago, aviators99 said:

The people I see are on 15. Not the running track 

 

Actually, that's deck 16.

[CruisingWalter]

On 7/17/2023 at 10:49 AM, CineGraphic said:

Here's video of the "bump"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aPKDaCWydK8

 

 

 

What I absolutely do not understand is why she was still executing her turn while backing up. She typically executes the full turn/spin in the turning basin and then backs in when she is lined up. Almost as if someone was trying to shave a few minutes off unnecessarily. 

 

I will say that was a remarkable job by the Port Miami team to get the ship not only fixed up but to also get the paint and lettering touched up was beautiful. Well done by that team. 

[CruisingWalter]

2 hours ago, cantgetin said:

If you watch the port cam, there were some people on the running track who went over to the side, presumably to try to see what was happening.  Why would anyone be out running at that hour of the morning?  That's real dedication.

 

Because it's been over 100 degrees in Miami for the past few weeks. Probably crew members running in the darkness. We've been pegged at around 103 for the better part of two weeks here at our home in the Orlando area. 

[cantgetin]

2 minutes ago, CruisingWalter said:

 

Because it's been over 100 degrees in Miami for the past few weeks. Probably crew members running in the darkness. We've been pegged at around 103 for the better part of two weeks here at our home in the Orlando area. 

There's not an emoji  on CC for "sympathy."  We are vacillating between rain and too darned hot.  That green stuff in the yard doesn't get dry enough to mow before it rains again, but it sure is growing.

[chengkp75]

On 7/17/2023 at 3:16 PM, Cloud9 Bob said:

I'm curious about something and maybe someone with a maritime pay grade higher than mine can answer this. Who would be responsible for this? Would it be the Harbor Pilot or the ships Master or Staff Captain? Just a fun fact to add in, I visited the SL bridge last year and asked all the officers there which port was the worst to negotiate and they all said Port of Miami at night due to it's narrow apporoach.

The ship is always responsible for damages done to a stationary object (whether a dock or another ship).  The Pilot, unless it is proven that he/she was grossly negligent, would not be responsible.  The Captain has responsibility at all times, and authority at all times, and can relieve the pilot if he/she feels the pilot is placing the ship in danger.

[chengkp75]

22 hours ago, Lustate said:

Now it's easy to judge from a distance but....You would think the rubber buffers would be positioned where the ship would hit, rather than higher up. They know the ship shape, overhangs etc, so why leave that chunk of concrete exposed? 

Was this pier specifically built for this ship?  If not, then it would be generic placement.  Also, the height of the fenders above the water, and where this fits on the ship depends on the state of the tide.

[cantgetin]

57 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

The ship is always responsible for damages done to a stationary object (whether a dock or another ship).  The Pilot, unless it is proven that he/she was grossly negligent, would not be responsible.  The Captain has responsibility at all times, and authority at all times, and can relieve the pilot if he/she feels the pilot is placing the ship in danger.

 

54 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

Was this pier specifically built for this ship?  If not, then it would be generic placement.  Also, the height of the fenders above the water, and where this fits on the ship depends on the state of the tide.

We always appreciate the insight from a true expert. THanks

[sid_9169]

1 hour ago, chengkp75 said:

Was this pier specifically built for this ship?  If not, then it would be generic placement.  Also, the height of the fenders above the water, and where this fits on the ship depends on the state of the tide.

Terminal V was specifically constructed for Virgin Voyages and their "lady ships", however it looks like they failed to consider these things such as placement of the rubber bumpers or whatever they call them... Something tells me they might go back and add a few lower down near the waterline, but only time will tell...

[chengkp75]

1 hour ago, sid_9169 said:

Terminal V was specifically constructed for Virgin Voyages and their "lady ships", however it looks like they failed to consider these things such as placement of the rubber bumpers or whatever they call them... Something tells me they might go back and add a few lower down near the waterline, but only time will tell...

But, this incident involved the absolute corner of the ship,  which means it struck in a very narrow spot, so even if the fenders went down to the bottom of the pier, the ship could have very easily struck between the fender on the corner of the dock, and the next set of fenders along the dock, about 6-8 feet apart, and the result would have been the same.  Striking just off the fender, on the end face of the dock would produce the same result, the fenders here are even further apart.  Unless you are going to cover the entire pier with rubber, there is always a chance of striking concrete.

 

And, while the "terminal" was built for Virgin, the pier has been there a long time.

[Cloud9 Bob]

16 hours ago, CruisingWalter said:

 

What I absolutely do not understand is why she was still executing her turn while backing up. She typically executes the full turn/spin in the turning basin and then backs in when she is lined up.

 

 

I also noticed that after the roundabout spin that the ship was lined up closer to the concrete dolphin and at an odd angle that looked like it was off. This is only a guess but I saw that the blinking warning light for the end of the concrete dock is in the center of the structure. Is it possible that the person in charge mistook the placement of the light for the edge of the dock and failed to see the remaining part of the dock that was in shadow? 

Edited July 19, 2023 by Cloud9 Bob

[CastleCritic]

29 minutes ago, Cloud9 Bob said:

 

I also noticed that after the roundabout spin that the ship was lined up closer to the concrete dolphin and at an odd angle that looked like it was off. This is only a guess but I saw that the blinking warning light for the end of the concrete dock is in the center of the structure. Is it possible that the person in charge mistook the placement of the light for the edge of the dock and failed to see the remaining part of the dock that was in shadow? 

possibly, but there should have been a lookout on the stern who could clearly see what was going on.

 

Its true that all he can do is say "dolphin 50 feet captain", not "youre about to hit the dock" if hes not providing good info to the bridge whoever was actually maneuvering and the captain wouldn't have known how close they were.

and obviously these things don't stop on a dime so there should have been a lot of warning/communication.

 

[Cloud9 Bob]

The starboard wing station also has an array of video monitors that would allow the person controlling the ship to get a close up video feed of the starboard side of the stern. I'm sure it has a substantial zoom ability, as well as low light level capability.  It hangs over the side just past where the teeter totter area is and even has its own windshield wiper. I wonder if there will be an NTSB report since it happened in US waters and was technically an accident. I'll leave that question for those more well versed than I in these matters.

[chengkp75]

23 minutes ago, Cloud9 Bob said:

The starboard wing station also has an array of video monitors that would allow the person controlling the ship to get a close up video feed of the starboard side of the stern. I'm sure it has a substantial zoom ability, as well as low light level capability.  It hangs over the side just past where the teeter totter area is and even has its own windshield wiper. I wonder if there will be an NTSB report since it happened in US waters and was technically an accident. I'll leave that question for those more well versed than I in these matters.

That would be a USCG investigation, who may or may not call in the NTSB for assistance.  Also, the class society will do their own investigation on behalf of the flag state.

[Cloud9 Bob]

Thanks Chengkp75...just what I wanted to know.

[CruisingWalter]

8 hours ago, Cloud9 Bob said:

Is it possible that the person in charge mistook the placement of the light for the edge of the dock and failed to see the remaining part of the dock that was in shadow? 

 

I don't know how Scarlet Lady does it, but most cruise ships have spotters on the back of the ship for these very reasons. Optical illusions can play hell with a 1000' long, 13+ story tall structure, especially in the darkness. There was a human failure somewhere here because that was flat calm in the turning basin. Pure and simple human error in lining up that ship. 

[Lustate]

On 7/19/2023 at 5:09 PM, chengkp75 said:

But, this incident involved the absolute corner of the ship,  which means it struck in a very narrow spot, so even if the fenders went down to the bottom of the pier, the ship could have very easily struck between the fender on the corner of the dock, and the next set of fenders along the dock, about 6-8 feet apart, and the result would have been the same.  Striking just off the fender, on the end face of the dock would produce the same result, the fenders here are even further apart.  Unless you are going to cover the entire pier with rubber, there is always a chance of striking concrete.

 

And, while the "terminal" was built for Virgin, the pier has been there a long time.

 

Point of impact assessment would have taken place on the structure as part of the general build plan. The placement fo fenders on the general side of the ship's dock would of course be a significantly harder target not to see, and be spaces out more. This goes for small boats up to mega-ships. The end of the dock I would imagine will be covered as this would be the most likely point of impact. 

 

Think about your cars, are bumpers put on the pointy corners where they outlying sections of the vehicle are, or on the long smooth side the side? 

 

The extended end to the dock (which this section is on) was an install for VV at the point that Terminal V was built so accommodate the length of the ships. 

[sid_9169]

Some additional work is being done on the damaged area... 

 

 

[cantgetin]

Good....she looked much improved when she left Miami, but wasn't perfect.

 

[D. Bar Sinister]

On 7/16/2023 at 1:12 PM, CineGraphic said:

 

Seen worse.