Oosterdam RAW SEWAGE DISASTER HOLLAND AMERICA DOES NOT CARE ABOUT THEIR GUESTS!

[MISTER 67]

Holland America at one time was our favorite cruise line but we’ve had issues with them the last 2 cruises with various problems so this toilet issue does not surprise me, I can understand the outrage from the OP and a 600 dollar FCC is a joke, who would want to sail again with HAL after an experience like that.

[WriterOnDeck]

On 8/22/2023 at 3:00 PM, CruiserBruce said:

 Have you counter-proposed?

I've always found it most effective to ask for what you want, not just wait for the offer. My years of having responsibility for some overseeing executive responses in a Fortune 50 company taught me that leads to the best outcomes.

 

The only thing is you have to ask for the possible. I was delayed last fall on a flight from Sydney back home, and DMed on Twitter with a very helpful airline customer service rep. As much as I wanted to get home that evening, I had to accept the fact that there were no connecting flights that day after the airline's delay. I agreed to spend a night on the way home, and she agreed to put me in first class on the first flight of the next day, to an airport closer to my final destination. I made that suggestion, so it get me the "power and control" and she was glad to work it out.

 

Not having been in your situation, I don't know what your counter proposal would have been. But that is the best place to start.

 

PS: toilet issues most frequently are caused by someone flushing the wrong stuff -- anything other than ship-provided toilet paper in reasonable amounts -- and it could be anywhere on the sewage run down your hallway.

[SilvertoGold]

31 minutes ago, WriterOnDeck said:

I've always found it most effective to ask for what you want, not just wait for the offer. My years of having responsibility for some overseeing executive responses in a Fortune 50 company taught me that leads to the best outcomes.

 

The only thing is you have to ask for the possible. I was delayed last fall on a flight from Sydney back home, and DMed on Twitter with a very helpful airline customer service rep. As much as I wanted to get home that evening, I had to accept the fact that there were no connecting flights that day after the airline's delay. I agreed to spend a night on the way home, and she agreed to put me in first class on the first flight of the next day, to an airport closer to my final destination. I made that suggestion, so it get me the "power and control" and she was glad to work it out.

 

Not having been in your situation, I don't know what your counter proposal would have been. But that is the best place to start.

 

PS: toilet issues most frequently are caused by someone flushing the wrong stuff -- anything other than ship-provided toilet paper in reasonable amounts -- and it could be anywhere on the sewage run down your hallway.

Thanks for this excellent post. Very informative suggestion and example. Your job must have been fun!

[Cruising Lynne]

16 hours ago, urqu3 said:

Many of you have asked how many times this happened. Or was it an ongoing problem? 

We had raw sewage filling our toilet multiple times a day every day! I also want to reiterate this was not a backed up toilet , This was raw sewage filling our toilet from some other cabins. The excrement in the pictures was not ours!!!

It is gross. I also feel that a cash offer is in order, and not FCC. Anyone who thinks it isn't that bad is absolutely wrong. They need to think about how they would feel if they got up in the middle of the night to pee, and had a toilet full of other people's poop. If you couldn't flush it down, you would have to get dressed and find a public restroom to use. 

[dogo88]

The op is correct in their expectation of a reasonable or better offer of compensation for this crappy situation.

Two deal breakers for us on a cruise.  A/C issues in hot climates and toilet issues in all climates. Had both on our 2016 Maasdam 11 day Caribbean Cruise. Took days for them to be fixed. We did receive a OBC but the ship was now off our radar. It was not our first Maasdam cruise. We would never go on her again and were pleased when she was sold.    

[AncientWanderer]

The stagnant sewer toilet isn't acceptable.  And nobody should expect a passenger to be a skilled communicator or negotiator to get that point across and either be moved or refunded their trip.  Even timid people shouldn't have to tolerate a situation like this.  

[tupper10]

If HAL doesn't give you a refund I would contact elliott.org to see if he can help. As others have said this is totally unacceptable. Your room was not habitable due to a non working toilet and I would use these words in an email to HAL as well as emails to all the executives at HAL.  The emails are listed on the Elliot web site.  Good luck and please keep us posted as to what, if any, resolution HAL gives to you. 

[MISTER 67]

On 8/22/2023 at 5:27 PM, badtwin said:

I agree the situation with the toilet was totally unacceptable. (The deck not so much - looks like it got some interim repairs and not sure what else they could do while sailing.)  Agree a $600 pp future cruise credit inadequate if this happened multiple times during your cruise.

 

I am curious what you expect HAL to do if they really did not have any other cabin available? (And was it really no other cabin or nothing near the class you booked?)  In your third post said you didn't want to go public and you gave HAL a chance to make it right.  What would you consider fair to make it right?

 

Not trying to be cute.  I am really just curious what kind of compensation HAL gives for various situations.

 

 

IMHO a complete refund would have been appropriate with an offer of flying the OP and his party back home from the next port of call at no charge. 
If I ran a cruise ship company I would probably  not sell maybe 10 cabins on a ship that would be available for the unacceptable situation that occurred in the OP’s cabin and any other situations or emergencies that might pop up in a cabin.

Edited August 24, 2023 by MISTER 67

[PigsCanFly]

We were on Rotterdam VII when they first sailed from the US and we experienced a "plumbing issue" much less serious.  Our toilet a few days into the cruise flushed fine, but continued filling after the flust to the point of overflowing.  Maintainence fixed it promptly by adjusting a valve in the hall and the room steward scrubbed the bathroom floor thoroughly.  It did happen again a few days later and they replaced the valve that time and re-scrubbed the bathroom.  Our experience was much better than the OP's .  We have never been disappointed by any of the crew on HAL (except Guest Services, but I try to avoid them).

 

[OlsSalt]

2 hours ago, Hlitner said:

.........
 

In the interests of full disclosure, after our recent 6 weeks on the Westy, DW summed it up with the comment “no more HAL.”  And our issues paled in comparison to what happened to the OP.

 

Hank

 

 

Great choice, Hank. Life is too short to make yourself so unhappy.

[Hlitner]

3 minutes ago, OlsSalt said:

 

 

Great choice, Hank. Life is too short to make yourself so unhappy.

This might be difficult for you to understand, but this is not about me.  It is about the reaction to the OPs post which shows an appalling unhealthy condition onboard and the failure of management to correct the situation.  You might also consider that many ship plumbing problems impact multiple cabins and that only a small percentage of folks post on CC. 

[Fairgarth]

1 hour ago, MISTER 67 said:

If I ran a cruise ship company I would probably  not sell maybe 10 cabins on a ship that would be available for the unacceptable situation that occurred in the OP’s cabin and any other situations or emergencies that might pop up in a cabin.

 

I would be very surprised if there are no empty cabins on a ship that was fully booked.  Over the last dozen years, we have been no-shows on three cruises we had booked and paid for.  Last minute family emergencies prevented our travel.  We can't possibly be the only ones.  So on a ship with 1000 cabins, even a 1% no-show rate would release 10 cabins.

[Sunseeker810]

Anything less than a full refund is unacceptable for this situation.  A FCC is a joke!  After all of the aggravation,  why would they want to do another HAL cruise???

I too am close to being done with HAL because of their customer service, or should I say lac of. I had a problem with my perks.  I got absolutely no where with them even though I showed them a print out. 

When you go to the desk with an issue, it should be resolved. Not for me!  They sent strawberries to my room and did nothing to fix the drink package that I was SUPPOSED to have!

[Guest ldtr]

Personally I would expect them to fix it. By the OPs own statements it certainly seemed that they did aggressively try to fix the problem. So it was not lack of effort and response. 

 

The problem in this case was then  that in spite of their best efforts to fix it they were unable to.

 

At that point it comes down to alternatives. Apparently no other cabins were available.

 

So at this point it is a problem that cannot be resolved for whatever reason, and no other alternative cabins available

 

So at that point it becomes a question of staying in spite of the problem or leaving. Do not know if the OP had that discussion.  We probably would have opted to leave at the next port. But would have certainly had the discussion about the compensation for each option. If they said that they could not have that discussion, I would ask them to call who ever at HQ could have that discussion.

 

One lesson is usually if the discussion for compensation is pushed off until after the cruise odds are it will not end well.

Edited August 24, 2023 by ldtr

[urqu3]

As far as leaving the ship, We had paid for airfare from Rome that was non refundable and had multiple excursions most with Viator that were not refundable. The staff also kept assuring us that they would get the problem fixed.

So yes we had to make a decision to spend thousands more for last minute air and forgo everything we had already paid for with Viator. We chose to stay with the assurances from HAL that we would be compensated. We did not learn of the offered compensation until day10 of a 12 day cruise. By then we were stuck!

[3rdGenCunarder]

It just occurred to me that the Navigator app has a feedback/comment option. Does anyone here have experience with using the app for a problem? Do complaints get routed to the appropriate person any better/faster than dealing with Guest Relations?  

[Guest ldtr]

Had a cruise on a different line where conditions were unacceptable. Was repeatedly told nothing they could do until I told them that we would get off at the next port and to cancel the next 2 cruises. We were doing a B2B2B in the same cabin. At that point a mutually agreeable solution was found.

 

 

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

It just occurred to me that the Navigator app has a feedback/comment option. Does anyone here have experience with using the app for a problem? Do complaints get routed to the appropriate person any better/faster than dealing with Guest Relations?  

My experience is that such apps route through CS. They just replace the in person visit.

[3rdGenCunarder]

3 minutes ago, ldtr said:

My experience is that such apps route through CS. They just replace the in person visit.

 

Ah, I thought there might be a tech less invested in protecting the higher-ups. Too often, it seems like Customer Service is there to be a wall between passengers and the people who can help them. I had an account issue on a Cunard cruise, and it took 4 visits to the front desk to FINALLY get to talk to the person who could actually help. And it was fixed within the hour. 

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, urqu3 said:

As far as leaving the ship, We had paid for airfare from Rome that was non refundable and had multiple excursions most with Viator that were not refundable. The staff also kept assuring us that they would get the problem fixed.

So yes we had to make a decision to spend thousands more for last minute air and forgo everything we had already paid for with Viator. We chose to stay with the assurances from HAL that we would be compensated. We did not learn of the offered compensation until day10 of a 12 day cruise. By then we were stuck!

That becomes the problem with these issues. If it is not enough for you to leave the ship, then it becomes a question of the value of the amount of inconvenience. From the cruise lines point of view you still got the benefit of travel and ships public facilities, even if the toilet had issues.

 

One other question. Would the toilet flush or once it had the back flow there was no way to empty it without maintenance coming and emptying it?

Edited August 24, 2023 by ldtr

[badtwin]

12 minutes ago, ldtr said:

That becomes the problem with these issues. If it is not enough for you to leave the ship, then it becomes a question of the value of the amount of inconvenience. From the cruise lines point of view you still got the benefit of travel and ships public facilities, even if the toilet had issues.

 

One other question. Would the toilet flush or once it had the back flow there was no way to empty it without maintenance coming and emptying it?

 

This is the issue isn't it?  And I find it curious that we still have not heard from the OP what he wants or has asked for other than for HAL "to make this right."  (Or at least i didn't see it.)

 

I think what the OP dealt with was terrible, but he did not do himself any favors by not being clear and totally honest here.  It would not have taken 10 pages to say. "We had human waste back up in our toilet several times a day every day on an X day cruise.  Maintenance was in every day and couldn't fix it and the most they offered me was $1000  future cruise credit.  I was told no other rooms were available and going home meant forfeiting many dollars paid for tours."   It would have helped us all understand the full nature and scope of the problem.  

 

IMHO $1000 credit is not enough.  But I am not sure a full refund is in order without more info.

 

And a full refund of what  - cruise fair? on-board spending too?

 

And as an aside, as someone who has been dealing with septic issues for most of the summer, never underestimate what a cluster that can be.  And it must be 20 times more difficult on a ship.  I have learned an incredible amount about on-board plumbing.   I am somewhat more assured that I won't accidentally get sucked onto to seat.  

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Mary229]

3 minutes ago, badtwin said:

Maintenance was in every day and couldn't fix it and the most they offered me was $1000  future cruise credit.

I have been very sympathetic but the OP said he traveled on an upgrade and no where did he say what he actually paid for this cruise.  Nosy people like me would want to know that before passing judgement on the offer.  

[taxmantoo]

43 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

I have been very sympathetic but the OP said he traveled on an upgrade and no where did he say what he actually paid for this cruise.  Nosy people like me would want to know that before passing judgement on the offer.  

I am pretty sure he paid more than $1000 and it seems to me that nothing short of a full refund would be acceptable in this case, regardless of who he complained to.  HAL missed another opportunity to show compassion and earn a bit of goodwill.

[urqu3]

If you read the original post I clearly said we paid $9600 for the cruise! 

 

[Guest ldtr]

1 hour ago, urqu3 said:

If you read the original post I clearly said we paid $9600 for the cruise! 

 

Were you able to flush the toilet to empty back out when it back filled?