AMS to LAX...whcih choice would you make?

[Bruin Steve]

Probably going to book this later tonight when AA.com posts the flights for my date.

Based on what they offered last night for the day before mine, these could be two of the options using AAdvantage points:

 

1)  BA via Heathrow...Depart AMS at 11:40 am...3:45 in  LHR to change planes---30K AA points plus $295 pp

2)  AA via Philadelphia...Depart 10:55 am...2:20 in PHL to change planes--and terminals...and go through customs(?)...25K AA points plus $89 pp

 

BA vs AA?  Heathrow vs. Philly?  Customs at final destination vs. Customs en route (and there's also a note about TERMINAL CHANGE in PHL!)  Able to pre-reserve seats vs. Pay for seat reservations (cash or BA Avios--which I have) or wait until 7 days prior for seats with my One World Ruby status (AA Million MIle Gold).

 

Any thoughts?

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Bruin Steve

[CruiserBruce]

First question, do you know the best points rates will come out the very first day the seats are released? I am not familiar withAA, but I know that's not true on UA.

 

You will only do Customs at LAX. You will do Immigration at LHR...I am pretty sure , and again at LAX, as Britain is not in the EU anymore. Overall, I would be inclined to go AMS-LHR-LAX, as its a little easier, but more expensive.

[Bruin Steve]

25 minutes ago, CruiserBruce said:

First question, do you know the best points rates will come out the very first day the seats are released? I am not familiar withAA, but I know that's not true on UA.

 

You will only do Customs at LAX. You will do Immigration at LHR...I am pretty sure , and again at LAX, as Britain is not in the EU anymore. Overall, I would be inclined to go AMS-LHR-LAX, as its a little easier, but more expensive.

From my experience, AA tends to release only a very limited number of seats for popular routes as points awards...When they go, they're gone.  Eventually, depending on supply and demand, they may release more...but you are taking a gamble waiting.  Also, the connections, and times tend to get worse over time.  And I believe 25-30K in points is not a bad deal for AA...  The $295 pp in addition to the points is due to high taxes flying through LHR--at least that's what they've told me in the past.

 

And, maybe I should have noted that this is for August 22--high travel season.

 

My initial thought is that the simpler schedule--plenty of time at LHR--is worth the extra $412 for the two of us.  And extra 10K in points is not a big deal...I have the points.  So, $400 for simplicity and a little peace of mind.

 

The next consideration is whether to just pay for seat assignments or wait until 7 days out...being Ruby does get me a six day jump on others... And I don't yet know what BA will charge for the seats...If it's cheap enough in Avios (BA's points) we'll use those...I've had 24,000 of those sitting around that I don't know how I'll ever use.

[6rugrats]

AA.  Cheaper and free seat selection.

[the mice]

Based on # of points, I suppose you are flying economy.  I believe the higher $$ is due to departing from LHR as I've read about this in the past.  Even so, I think you would be better off going thru LHR - more time for a connection - you'd probably even be able to get to a lounge for a short visit.   Based on flying in August, you might want to nail down your seats earlier than a week out.

 

Flying into Philly, there's always the chance of those late afternoon thunderstorms in August. 

 I just saw this today:

Philadelphia International Airport ranks last in its size category for airport satisfaction for the third year in a row, according to J.D. Power's 2023 North America Airport Satisfaction Study.

 

Although, if you take the AA flight, you'll probably be too busy connecting between terminals to notice......😁   Unless you are delayed by a storm.   

[BOB999]

I'd say it's a coin flip.

 

For both itineraries you would do security and outbound immigration at AMS.

 

Option 1 would have you go through transit security at LHR.  Looks like both flights go through Terminal 5.  Higher fees due to a combination of UK taxes and the fact that BA pushes through carrier surcharges (formerly known as fuel surcharges) to awards whereas AA does not on their own flights.

 

Option 2 US immigration, luggage reclaim, customs and security at PHL.  The East Coast has been a mess this year due to weather/ATC issues, though that has mostly been in NYC.

 

If seat assignments are very important to you then I'd do AA.  As a AA gold you'd have the option of selecting Main Cabin Extra seats 24 hours prior to departure on AA.

 

Also keep in mind with flights that far out that you'll likely have a couple of schedule changes between now and then.  

[Bruin Steve]

Just did a little research.  Apparently, the flight from AMS lands at Philly at gate A (West) 26...and the flight to LAX departs from C 30...That's about as far away as you can get!  lus, the second half, being a domestic flight, gets no free food....though not a big deal, it's something...Leaning further toward BA and LHR...

[fbgd]

14 hours ago, CruiserBruce said:

You will only do Customs at LAX. You will do Immigration at LHR...I am pretty sure , and again

at LAX, as Britain is not in the EU anymore. Overall, I would be inclined to go AMS-LHR-LAX, as its a little easier, but more expensive.

 

I think you are confusing security, immigration and customs.

 

For an LHR connection you will only need to reclear security. Immigration and customs would be at LAX.

 

For a PHL connection you would clear immigration, claim bags, clear customs and then go through security again.

[fbgd]

10 hours ago, Bruin Steve said:

Just did a little research.  Apparently, the flight from AMS lands at Philly at gate A (West) 26...and the flight to LAX departs from C 30...That's about as far away as you can get!  lus, the second half, being a domestic flight, gets no free food....though not a big deal, it's something...Leaning further toward BA and LHR...

 

Flights don't always go to/from the same gates. They may go to the same concourses, because of feeding into immigration etc. but a certain PHL-LAX flight isn't always going to go from the very same gate.

[Zach1213]

10 hours ago, Bruin Steve said:

Just did a little research.  Apparently, the flight from AMS lands at Philly at gate A (West) 26...and the flight to LAX departs from C 30...That's about as far away as you can get!  

 

Gates change pretty much every day with the larger hub airports, and is often a crapshoot. For example, last month I took the exact same MCI-DFW-ONT flights on the exact same day of the week, two weeks in a row. On one day, I had to go from Terminal A to Terminal C. The following week, my gates were literally next to each other. 

[BOB999]

10 hours ago, Bruin Steve said:

Just did a little research.  Apparently, the flight from AMS lands at Philly at gate A (West) 26...and the flight to LAX departs from C 30...That's about as far away as you can get!  lus, the second half, being a domestic flight, gets no free food....though not a big deal, it's something...Leaning further toward BA and LHR...

 

Mainline AA flights can leave from A, B or C at PHL.  Like most hubs it varies day to day.  As an example over the last several days, that flight left from:

 

Friday:  A17

Saturday: C23

Sunday:  A11

Monday: C30

Tuesday:  B8

[Gardyloo]

Rather than wrestling with the "multi-quote" option (which I always manage to screw up somehow) let me address some points raised in several posts above.  Sorry if these are out of order.

 

1.  You will NOT go through any immigration in London on a connection at Heathrow.  Security, yes, immigration, no.  This is called a "sterile transit" as long as you don't leave the secured (aka "airside") parts of Heathrow.  Even if you had to change terminals, for example from Terminal 5 to Terminal 3, you wouldn't technically enter the UK hence no need for border controls.

 

2.  You will go through both immigration (people) and customs (stuff) at your first port of entry in the US.  If that's PHL, it's there, if it's LAX, it's there.  You'll re-check your bags (if at PHL) after clearing customs, usually a formality.  Changing terminals at PHL is not a big deal; a little walking is all that's involved.  Sometimes it can be quicker than at LAX.  Scratch that - usually quicker.

 

3.  The extra cost for the British Airways flights ($295 vs. $90) is NOT due to taxes.  It's because BA adds "carrier imposed fees" on award tickets that use BA flights.  Years ago BA called these fees "fuel surcharges" (technically, "YR" or "YQ" fees on the tariff breakdown) but a US court ordered BA to stop calling them that, after BA lost a big class action lawsuit that showed they were no such thing and that they were simply a means to elicit increased profits from mileage award flights.  So BA just changed the name to "carrier imposed surcharge" and kept on as before.  The (Dutch, British and US) taxes on AMS-LHR-LAX are the same regardless of whose plane you're on; the difference is due to BA's surcharges.  AA has agreed to levy the same charges between LHR and LAX (or any US destination) even if it's an AA plane from London.  I believe the technical term for this practice is "ripoff."

 

4.  The algorithms used by the airlines to set fares and release seats into award inventory, and at what "cost" in miles, are some of the industry's most closely guarded secrets.  Trying to outguess these robots is a fool's errand, absent, like I say, an advanced degree from Hogwarts.  Ever since the major airlines went to so-called "dynamic pricing" for award seats (where the mileage can bounce all over the place, from, say, 22,500 miles for a coach seat to/from Europe to 100,000+ miles for the same seat) it's been harder and harder to know what good value is vs. poor.  My old rule of thumb was that I never used miles when their value was less than 2c or 2.5c per mile (divide the airfare by the miles needed) but those rules of thumb are much less useful now.  

 

5.  BA generally releases more seats at the opening of the booking window (330 or 360 days for most airlines) than other carriers (like AA) because they can use the "carrier imposed fees" (above) to hedge their profits.  But all airlines - BA, AA, all of 'em - release seats into award inventory throughout the eleven or twelve months of the booking period, when and only when their robots tell them it's more profitable to do so.  Not only will the robots tell them to release seats, but also how to price them - cheap to astronomical - in terms of the mileage requirement.

 

6.  Late August typically is when you see the highest cost for transatlantic economy-class plane tickets.  Ironically it's also among the cheapest times for business class, due to the falloff in actual business demand.  Looking at the required mileage for mid-August (up to 8/20, which is as far as AA goes at the moment) I can see some business class one-way awards for under 100K miles under $100 in fees.  Of course I don't know how many miles you possess, but even if you had to buy some miles from AA, this might be worth investigating.  Or, depending on how many Avios you have, you might look at using them for flights on Aer Lingus from Amsterdam to Dublin, connecting to Aer Lingus' nonstop to LAX.  You can book using BA Avios on Aer Lingus' website (Aer Lingus is owned by the same company that owns BA and Iberia) and one big advantage of traveling via Dublin is that you "pre-clear" all US border controls - immigration and customs - at DUB, so when you arrive in LAX it's like coming off a domestic flight.  Major time-saver.  

 

I'll stop here; hope this isn't too confusing.

[FlyerTalker]

1 hour ago, Gardyloo said:

 My old rule of thumb was that I never used miles when their value was less than 2c or 2.5c per mile (divide the airfare by the miles needed) but those rules of thumb are much less useful now. 

 

I still use that rough evaluation, since I am thinking in terms of the opportunity cost of getting points vs a 2% cashback on credit card spend.  If the points are worth less than 2 cents each, I am losing out compared to using a cash back card.  And if they are worth more, then I am better not getting the cash.  However, there is also the consideration that cash can be universally spent vs the restricted market for using points, so that bumps me up into the 2.5c or more consideration.

 

It's all a matter of trade-offs.  And what brings you the greatest returns.

 

As for the original question:  go with AA.

 

 

[Bruin Steve]

I went with the BA flights via LHR.

 

Yes, schedules, gates, etc. can always change...and likely do.  But never plan hoping there will be changes for the better...Wqual chance things will change for the worse.  3:45 at Heathrow while not going through whatever hassles those are (whether properly "customs", "immigration", "passport control" or whatever they are...and not having to collect and re-check luggage) is MUCH better than dealing with those things and LIKELY having to hike some distance between gates...in only 2:20.

 

As to the points, little difference to me between 50K and 60K.  That money paid?  It's actually about 50/50 between taxes and airline fees:

Total cost  (All passengers)  $588.90

Base Fare  $0.00
Taxes and Fees  $312.10
Carrier-imposed fees  $276.00

 

Whatever it is, it's still around $200 pp difference.   Pending confirmation, it looks like I've convinced BA to waive the seat reservation fees (long story) and assign me Business Class seats for the short leg and preferred seat for the second.

 

In the long run, I'm spending many thousands of dollars on 24 nights worth of cruises plus 7 nights of hotels before and after...the flight TO Europe (nonstop on AA to LHR) cost me only 30K points plus $5.90 pp...So, spending another $400 is not my biggest concern.  The bigger consideration is convenience.   I would have abandoned the entire plan and just booked the KLM nonstop--a flight I've taken a few times in the past--except KLN's current pricing is incredibly high...and I don't have any points to do that one...and I had points sitting around on AA and BA that have gone unused for years--might as well use them. 

[Bruin Steve]

Just to close the loop:

 

We booked the AMS-LHR-LAX for 60K AAdvantage miles plus $588.90 US for two.

After a short discussion with BA regarding our One World status, they assigned us seats at no additional cost--in the "Club Euro" section on the first leg and in standard economy on the second (wish it were the other way around, but beggars can't be choosers).

 

We depart AMS at 11:40 am, arrive at LHR at noon (hour time difference, depart LHR at 3:45 pm and arrive at LAX at 6:55 pm Pacific time.

 

I think those flights minimize the stress.  We have plenty of time to wake up at our hotel in Central Amsterdam, enjoy breakfast, check out and get a taxi to the airport.  3:45 at LHR is more than ample time for the little we'll have to do there.  We'll not need to worry about passing through ant sort of customs/immigration/whatever line until we arrive at LAX.

[FlyerTalker]

37 minutes ago, Bruin Steve said:

We have plenty of time to wake up at our hotel in Central Amsterdam, enjoy breakfast, check out and get a taxi to the airport. 

 

Unless you have a lot of luggage to manage, take the train from Centraal to Schiphol.  Faster, cheaper and easy.

 

And be sure to visit the museum on Holland Boulevard inside the airport.  A hidden gem worth the visit, IMO.  Go to the Schiphol website for details.

 

 

[fbgd]

On 9/28/2023 at 10:59 AM, Bruin Steve said:

Just to close the loop:

 

We booked the AMS-LHR-LAX for 60K AAdvantage miles plus $588.90 US for two.

After a short discussion with BA regarding our One World status, they assigned us seats at no additional cost--in the "Club Euro" section on the first leg

 

This is very peculiar...

 

Oneworld status doesn't get you upgrades on BA (Club Europe is intra-Europe business class) so it's very odd that for what is essentially an AA booking BA have put you in an upgraded cabin. That makes very little sense to me.

 

Oneworld Sapphire/Emerald status would allow you to pre-assign seats at no cost at the time of booking, Ruby gets is gratis at 7 days out. 

[Bruin Steve]

3 hours ago, fbgd said:

 

This is very peculiar...

 

I agree...

BUT...I'm a very good negotiater...and I made it through to a very good BA representative with a decent amount of authority.  And there were some other factors involved in addition to the One World thing.  But, yes, the results were highly unusual. Probaly not often duplicated.

[ScoutDiver]

Is 11:40 to early to schedule a flight out of Amsterdam when the ship arrives 7:00AM (Nieuw Statendam)

 

  I can self carry luggage.

What is the mininum connect time in Heathrow?  

[Globaliser]

10 hours ago, ScoutDiver said:

What is the mininum connect time in Heathrow?  

 

There's no single answer to this question. It depends on your itinerary: principally route and airline(s).

[ScoutDiver]

On 10/3/2023 at 2:10 AM, Globaliser said:

 

There's no single answer to this question. It depends on your itinerary: principally route and airline(s).

BA   connecting to Austin  both terminal 5