Define “no nickel and dime.”

[rico567]

Our first Viking ocean cruise is coming up next year, and their present advertising is very forward about not “nickel and diming” customers. Since this will also be our first ocean cruise of any kind (we’ve been on a couple of Viking river cruises and enjoyed them greatly) we of course have no basis of comparison to any other ocean cruise line. 
Nevertheless, several items have already presented themselves:

1) The alcoholic beverage package (maybe should not be included on this list, but it’s my list).

2) The blanket gratuity package.

3) The “deviation” charge to simply change the original arbitrarily assigned airline flight.

4) The list of included / charged excursions.

 

We may run into some other things before it’s over, but I can start with these. Explanations follow.

 

1) How about several levels of alcohol package, say 3? All this stuff is done by computer anyhow, so no real cost to Viking…..

2) Gratuities are a can of worms, judging by what I’ve read on the boards, but not knowing how our gratuity package is parceled out is pretty unsatisfactory. Yeah, I’d like to make sure the ship’s service people I don’t even have contact with get some sort of gratuity, but I’d also like to make sure someone like our cabin steward is compensated better.

3) Viking Air, in assigning our included flights, arbitrarily put us on a very early morning flight that gets us out of bed at 0300 in the middle of January, and that time of year is fraught with uncertainty where we live. Simply to get the flight for the two of us moved back a day to give us some buffer to work with cost us $200. If we had had any choice about the original flight, that would be different, but we didn’t.

4) The list Viking gave us of excursions certainly has at least one “included” excursion at each port of call- but in nearly every case, the included ones are not much more than shopping in the port city. An all day excursion that looks interesting runs $100-200 per person.

 

Of course, I’m certain Viking would not define any of these things as “nickel and diming” their customers…..so where exactly does that start?

 

 

 

[pavementends]

No nickel and dimeing means that any extra charge items are way more than a dime.

 

I would agree that Viking has less of this than some of the mass market lines. But more than some of the all-inclusive lines- which are not really really all-inclusive.

 

I have advice. Buy your own flights, remove one irritation and maybe save some dimes.

[LindaS272]

50 minutes ago, rico567 said:

1) The alcoholic beverage package (maybe should not be included on this list, but it’s my list).

2) The blanket gratuity package.

3) The “deviation” charge to simply change the original arbitrarily assigned airline flight.

4) The list of included / charged excursions.

None of these are required to have a decent, and I’d say, enjoyable cruise.

1.) is simply a form of payment and is no “deal” because you can pay a la carte.

2.) as a U.S. passenger, you don’t have to pay gratuities at all; you can leave money for your stewards or others as you see fit.

3.) you can do your own flights, or pay for Air Plus to get better connections.

4.) you don’t have to do any Viking excursions; you can book excursions with a 3rd party; you can wander around on your own in port & use public transportation.

[SJD117]

The Silver Spirits beverage package costs more than a few nickels and dimes — a lot more. But Viking’s steady drinkers can typically afford quite a few nickels and dimes. It’s all good to them as long as their cocktail glasses remain full.   😜😜😜

[zalusky]

No up charge restaurants

No up charge entrees

No up charge lounges

 

Substantially cheaper booze pkgs and drinks relative to the mainstream lines

I exclude excursions for comparisons as they are so individual in nature.

[Selion]

1 hour ago, rico567 said:

1) The alcoholic beverage package (maybe should not be included on this list, but it’s my list).

2) The blanket gratuity package.

3) The “deviation” charge to simply change the original arbitrarily assigned airline flight.

4) The list of included / charged excursions.

 

1. Beer & wine are included at lunch & dinner.  You only need the SSBP if you want an expanded selection of wines at meals, and alcoholic beverages outside of meal times.  I think it's now $22/day/person.  That's only $2 more than what NCL charges for its basic drink package's "service fee."

 

2. Very few cruise lines include gratuities in their fares when the bookings are made in the US market.  If you want your Viking cruise fares to include gratuities, book through their UK office (if Viking allows it).

 

3. Don't use Viking air and book your own.  I've done both.  On my first Viking cruise, I dropped Viking air and booked our own after final payment.  $$ saved.  Used Viking air on the 2nd cruise because private transfers between disembarkation port and the airport would be around $300.

 

4. Again, I've done both included and optional excursions.  While some included excursions are nothing more than a bus ride around the town, some walking tours are well worth the time.  At the very least the included excursions will give you a free ride into the cities with a narrated tour.  Yeah, there were always free time to explore but Viking guides don't take the groups to shops (except for that one dude at Livorno and we just left the group).

[Breckski]

No charge for any restaurant.

No charge for drinks be it spirits, juice, coffee or cola

No charge for gratuities

No charge for laundry

No charge for excursions with a decent selection 

 

We average around $300-400 per night on a Viking cruise for additional charge items depending on excursion costs.  More than a few nickels and dimes.  

 

[CurlerRob]

1 hour ago, rico567 said:

Our first Viking ocean cruise is coming up next year, and their present advertising is very forward about not “nickel and diming” customers. Since this will also be our first ocean cruise of any kind (we’ve been on a couple of Viking river cruises and enjoyed them greatly) we of course have no basis of comparison to any other ocean cruise line. 
Nevertheless, several items have already presented themselves:

1) The alcoholic beverage package (maybe should not be included on this list, but it’s my list).

2) The blanket gratuity package.

3) The “deviation” charge to simply change the original arbitrarily assigned airline flight.

4) The list of included / charged excursions.

 

If you define "nickel and diming" as any charges not included in your cruise fare, then certainly Viking (and nearly all other cruise lines) do that. A few observations that may lend you some perspective ...

 

Drink packages - event the "all-inclusive" lines have limits beyond which you will pay extra - sometimes for specialty spirits or wine, sometimes for curated wine tastings, etc. As well, implementing various package levels could be perceived as increasing the "N & D" quotient.

 

You pay gratuities whether they are separately visible or buried in the cruise fare - that's just definitional as mentioned earlier. The whole issue of pax wanting to understand the details of cruise line compensation systems baffles me - it's both company proprietary and not our business (our business is to decide if the cruise line's comp policies yield staff who provide quality service).

 

Nearly all cruise lines charge deviation fees - that's because allowing arrivals on multiple days adds complexity to the back office (read cost) and weakens their buying power with the airlines. I note that Oceania recently changed policy to allow pax to arrive a couple of days early without a deviation (quickly followed by a revamping (increase) of their a la carte approach to overall services).

 

Even the 'all-inclusive' lines have a combo of included and pay extra ShoreEx. While theirs tend to be more and higher quality included excursions, your simply paid for them differently (whether or not you used them).

 

For me, "N & D" is not about whether the cruise line takes a more or less a la carte approach - it's the institution of numerous minor, aggravating charges for stuff that used to be included. An example is HAL's specialty steakhouse - if you order two appetizers, you are charged for one, even if you don't bother with a main course. Of course, YMMV. 🍺🥌

Edited October 4, 2023 by CurlerRob
Typo

[CDNPolar]

You have great answers from everyone here.

 

I would say, if not said before, however it is an additional fee (perhaps a nickel or dime) but buy Air Plus if you are going to do your flights through Viking.  You choose the airline, the routes, and the times of your flights.  While we have friends made on the ship leaving the ship at 3am and 4am for their flights home, we are going to enjoy a leisurely breakfast because the flights we booked don't leave until noon.  And although we have to be out of the cabin by 8, that does not mean we cannot go for a nice breakfast then.

 

The SS is one package, and we buy it not because we get pure value out of it or drink enough to fully compensate us for buying it, but because we don't want to be restricted to the "house wine" that Viking may be serving that day.  If you are not picky on your wine or beer, and will drink what Viking are serving, then buy your evening drinks as you go and you likely won't be as expensive as the SS package.

 

We have been quite happy with the included excursions and we do a balance.  Sometimes we want the city walking tour.  I disagree that the included excursions are just short shopping trips, but it all comes down to what you want to do or see.  We personally don't see the value in paying an additional $200pp for a dinner in a town that is a 2 hour bus ride away.  Be careful that some of the longer full day excursions can end up with half of that time on a bus.

 

And as for gratuities, you can search that and see that it is a widely discussed topic.  We pay the gratuity on our invoice but as a Canadian booking we can adjust or ask for it to be removed completely.  It is not an obligatory charge.  We do further compensate our stateroom steward(s) and others in person.

 

With Viking Ocean you are buying into a different experience than most other cruise lines.  It is also very hard to compare to River.  They are different.  

 

To your question, where does nickel and diming start?

 

This is how I see it.

 

Above the posted cruise fare, you can add and pay for these additional services:

 

1. Add air plus if you want more control over your flights and airlines.  This is a higher end service, but you will still get to the cruise and home if you let Viking do your air without air plus.  
2. To the posted air fare cost (even if free air) add premium economy or business - most of the time.  This is also a choice.
3. Pay a deviation fee if you move your flights outside of the dates that Viking would book you.  This is because Viking have contract rates that fit a set of dates for the bulk of those travelling and you are now asking to fly outside these dates.  This to me is not nickel and diming.  This is contract rates.
4. Add Silver Spirits - BUT, you get beer and wine included at each meal and you can ask for a wine top up to the top of the glass and carry it to the lounge with you when you leave the dining room.  You will not want for beer or wine with the included if you play the game right.
5. Optional excursions.  This is not to me anything other than a choice.  You are offered one free in each port, and if you don't want to take these then you pay for something else privately or through Viking.  They are delivering on what they say they offer so no nickel and diming here.
6. Pay for laundry service in lower level cabins but you have a launderette that is free on the ship.

 

Personally, I don't believe that there is nickel and diming going on with Viking.  I think that they offer all the services and things that you need in the posted fare and you are choosing to go beyond that.

 

What I have always understood as nickel and diming is when you have to pay for specialty restaurants, or specialty coffee, or a soda package, of pictures that are taken of you all over the ship...

 

We make choices above the posted cruise fare.  That will happen on every cruise line.

 

Folks here will argue that Viking is not all inclusive, but to me they are 99% all inclusive. They give you everything that you need with the option to upgrade a bit.  They however in my opinion don't deprive you of anything by just paying your cruise fare.

[rico567]

Thanks to all for the responses to my post!

[TayanaLorna]

10 hours ago, zalusky said:

No up charge restaurants

No up charge entrees

No up charge lounges

 

Substantially cheaper booze pkgs and drinks relative to the mainstream lines

I exclude excursions for comparisons as they are so individual in nature.

Add:  no upcharge to use the Spa facility (saunas, steam room, therapy pool, snow room, heated clay loungers)

No photographers in your face and charging $$$ for photos of you

No hawking jewelry sales

No upcharge for quiet pool areas to get away from noisy kids (there are no kids)

No charge for specialty coffees

No upcharge for room service

No charge for ship tours of the bridge, galley or laundry if offered

 

I don't consider excursions, drinks package or airfare an upcharge.  We can choose to pay Viking or an outside vendor for excursions or take the included one.  We can choose to not drink, only drink the beer/wine with meals or bring our own booze or wine.  All rooms except V have your choice of mixer, room steward will provide ice.  You can also bring your drinks to public places or drink your own wine with no corkage fee.  We can purchase our own flights, use our FF miles or use Viking.  Its not an upcharge.

 

Our very first cruise was with friends who talked us into going on Viking with them.  I choked when i first saw the fare.  We chose the SSP for drinks and paid for it before the cruise.  Our cruise had some sea days so we were happy to have a cocktail any time, got the upgraded wines at Chefs Table and enjoyed a wine tasting event - all included with the drinks package.  We took all the Included excursions and then explored on our own.  The only charge at the end of our cruise were gratuities which, based on the service everywhere on board, we were happy to pay the suggested amount.

[Jim Avery]

Rico I am with you for the most part.  The tack on (not insignificant) extra daily for "tips" is just tacky for a line that brags so much about no nickel and timing.  Just include them and be done with it.  Several other lines we sail include them and it just seems nicer.  But then if you want true no nickel and diming take a Viking World Cruise.  As close to perfect as any cruise line will get.  But still full of things happening.  As to the way over discussed beverage package, I get it.  Many do not drink and do not want the idea of contributing to those who do.  Viking's beverages, whether in the SSBP or pay as you go, are some of the most reasonable in the cruise industry.  Also, Viking has a more adult like policy of bring your beverage onboard.  Wine or spirits it is generally (4 or 5 cases might cause a glance) ok to bring whet you have bought ashore onboard for consumption in your cabin or at the restaurant (wine).  Hard to find that perk any other place. No line or no one is perfect but Viking is a bit closer than all others we have tried over the years.  Yes we most definitely want them to do away with add on tips.  Adding a couple of hundred to a multi thousand cruise cost would not be noticeable in the big picture.  And I believe the $100 deviation fee is there to put some bit of a limit to silly requests.  It should not be much of an issue if you have a big need for serious changes.   Just one view.  Now back to thinking about packing.......🍸

[lackcreativity]

"The list Viking gave us of excursions certainly has at least one “included” excursion at each port of call- but in nearly every case, the included ones are not much more than shopping in the port city. An all day excursion that looks interesting runs $100-200 per person."

 

You do not mention which itinerary you are sailing.  Not once on any of the four completed and one upcoming cruises that we have taken have we experienced an excursion such as you described. If you were exaggerating for effect, I am afraid you have instead invalidated your point.

 

It is true that the included excursions are generally basic introductions to a location. Some are mostly panoramic bus rides with a guide for commentary and a few photo stops. More often, they include a walking tour and some time on your own. Sometimes, there is an inside visit of a church or museum. We have sailed exclusively in Europe, so I would expect the Amazon and the Artic and the Caribbean to have different experiences.

 

On our 15 day cruise of the western Mediterranean which departs next week, the included excursions offer ten guided walking tours, two museum visits, one mosque, a boat ride on the Bosphorus, three ancient ruin sites, one monastery, a 4th century Roman emperor's palace, and Europe's largest active medieval town. Any time there is an icon shown for "shopping", that is an optional activity during free time. You can use that time for more sightseeing or a stop in a cafe. 

 

Viking offers free shuttle bus service in many ports, and we have often remained behind at the end of the excursion to explore on our own and return to the ship later in the day. When offered, the shuttles are available all day, so you can do your own port visit at no charge if that is what you want.

 

Our cruising experience has all been with Viking, but from what I have read, the pricing of Viking optional excursions is considered reasonable in comparison with other cruise lines. We usually select a few optional ones on each cruise, and use the included excursions for the rest. 

 

I do hope that you will find your pre-cruise concerns are eased once you actually are on the ship. We have enjoyed each of our cruises, and hope you do too.

 

 

[duquephart]

17 minutes ago, Jim Avery said:

Rico I am with you for the most part.  The tack on (not insignificant) extra daily for "tips" is just tacky for a line that brags so much about no nickel and timing.  Just include them and be done with it.  Several other lines we sail include them and it just seems nicer.  But then if you want true no nickel and diming take a Viking World Cruise.  As close to perfect as any cruise line will get.  But still full of things happening.  As to the way over discussed beverage package, I get it.  Many do not drink and do not want the idea of contributing to those who do.  Viking's beverages, whether in the SSBP or pay as you go, are some of the most reasonable in the cruise industry.  Also, Viking has a more adult like policy of bring your beverage onboard.  Wine or spirits it is generally (4 or 5 cases might cause a glance) ok to bring whet you have bought ashore onboard for consumption in your cabin or at the restaurant (wine).  Hard to find that perk any other place. No line or no one is perfect but Viking is a bit closer than all others we have tried over the years.  Yes we most definitely want them to do away with add on tips.  Adding a couple of hundred to a multi thousand cruise cost would not be noticeable in the big picture.  And I believe the $100 deviation fee is there to put some bit of a limit to silly requests.  It should not be much of an issue if you have a big need for serious changes.   Just one view.  Now back to thinking about packing.......🍸

 

One of the isues with "tips" Is: At what point in the booking process does the new customer learn that they will incur a charge for "gratuities"? Is this extra charge made known upfront or sprung on the customer later on? If you pay an agreed upon fare and then find out at some point later on that you are expected to pay a fee in addition to that agreed upon - what do you call that?

[Jim Avery]

Nickel and Diming!!!🥃

[duquephart]

28 minutes ago, Jim Avery said:

Nickel and Diming!!!🥃

 

Indeed! Some would even call it fraud.

[Brad1185]

Viking was charging for gym classes. Overall compared to Celebrity, Royal, Princess, Hal, NCL, etc there really is no comparison.  

[duquephart]

1 hour ago, duquephart said:

 

Indeed! Some would even call it fraud.

 

It's like the bad old days at the car dealership before the Monroney label. You would agree on a price and then the dealer would lean back in his chair and say: Good! It's a deal! Now, would you like a steering wheel with that?"

[CDNPolar]

3 hours ago, duquephart said:

 

One of the isues with "tips" Is: At what point in the booking process does the new customer learn that they will incur a charge for "gratuities"? Is this extra charge made known upfront or sprung on the customer later on? If you pay an agreed upon fare and then find out at some point later on that you are expected to pay a fee in addition to that agreed upon - what do you call that?

 

I cannot tell you how we originally found out, but we knew from our first Viking cruise, and well before we paid the full fare, that there was a gratuity that was going to be on our bill for our disembarkation if we chose not to pay in advance.

 

We also knew - as Canadians booking - that we had the right to inflate it, deflate it, or have it removed entirely if we so wished.

 

So, I am going to say that somewhere this must be published, and if it is not included in the fare as some countries it is, if it is added to your account at checkout, then you have the right to remove it.

 

So with that said, in the countries that it is added at the end, and you have the right to remove it, it certainly is not nickel and diming - IMO. It is something that you can choose to pay or not.

Edited October 4, 2023 by CDNPolar

[Breckski]

2 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

So with that said, in the countries that it is added at the end, and you have the right to remove it, it certainly is not nickel and diming - IMO. It is something that you can choose to pay or not.

 

Yeah, we (in the US) likely have the option not to pay the tips, but I'm guessing it's not the easiest thing to get removed.  So even though the charge is technically optional it requires effort on your part to remove from the bill.  Viking advertising you can remove the gratuities is a bit amusing to me if Viking is to be viewed as a luxury line.

 

I imagine a very, very small percentage of customers actually reduce the gratuities.  I'd guess a much larger percentage give extra gratuities to specific staff.

 

I really think they should just add the gratuities to the cruise cost (like several of their competitors) and call it a day.  

[FetaCheese]

Would like to add:

 

V does not separately charge port fees and taxes.  Bundled in to fare charged.  Drawback:  when port is CXL'd, no refund to pax for those fees.

 

Also, Oceania does same. 

 

 

[Mike07]

22 hours ago, rico567 said:

 

Of course, I’m certain Viking would not define any of these things as “nickel and diming” their customers…..so where exactly does that start?

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've never been on NCL, but I have heard that they are one of the worst when it comes to nickel and diming. You might want to start there, and then you'll have a better idea of how Viking differs.

 

All the lines you routinely read about --- Carnival, Royal Caribbean, Princess, NCL, Holland America, Celebrity, Disney, MSC, Costa, and many others at lower price tiers --- you're not getting so much as a soda for free onboard (though I hear Disney has a free soda fountain machine on their Lido deck).

[Mich3554]

14 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

You have great answers from everyone here.

 

I would say, if not said before, however it is an additional fee (perhaps a nickel or dime) but buy Air Plus if you are going to do your flights through Viking.  You choose the airline, the routes, and the times of your flights.  While we have friends made on the ship leaving the ship at 3am and 4am for their flights home, we are going to enjoy a leisurely breakfast because the flights we booked don't leave until noon.  And although we have to be out of the cabin by 8, that does not mean we cannot go for a nice breakfast then.

 

The SS is one package, and we buy it not because we get pure value out of it or drink enough to fully compensate us for buying it, but because we don't want to be restricted to the "house wine" that Viking may be serving that day.  If you are not picky on your wine or beer, and will drink what Viking are serving, then buy your evening drinks as you go and you likely won't be as expensive as the SS package.

 

 

You do not have to buy the SS package to get something other than the house wine to drink at dinner.  If you don’t like it, you can buy a glass (very reasonably priced) of whatever you want.  We do this all the time.  Usually we will find a wine from the wine menu, and drink it at dinner instead of the free offerings. 
 

[LindaS272]

1 hour ago, mwike said:

Yeah, we (in the US) likely have the option not to pay the tips, but I'm guessing it's not the easiest thing to get removed. 

It’s extremely easy. A few days before the end of the cruise, Viking puts a letter in your state room telling you the gratuities will be charged at the end of the cruise unless you go to Guest Services and request it be removed. Nothing hard about that. I think you can also have it removed earlier if you want.

 

They also ask you in the letter to check your account on the stateroom TV to make sure it’s correct.

[rico567]

Thanks again to everyone who responded to my OP. Lots of great points of view on these topics, which is very helpful.