Marina November 1 “Holy Lands and Treasures” Itinerary Changes

[GeorgiaPeach51]

I have an issue with the changes that have been made to this cruise itinerary.  Yes, we lost a day in Haifa and a day in Ashdod.  For many, myself included, this was the reason for the trip.  But tragedy struck and I’m sure everyone is accepting and moving on.

 

my problem is the additional changes, to the point that this cruise now resembles nothing of the original cruise.  I will post the previous itinerary, which is yellowish, and the supposed new itinerary, which is white.  You can see the changes for yourself.  It is still unknown if Alexandria remains and that could very well be removed as well.

 

Here is where I have an issue with cruise line escape clauses regarding port changes.  Our cruise is two weeks away.  Oceania is well aware in advance that this cruise is definitively NOT the cruise we purchased due to the unavoidable Israel port changes, and Oceania’s subsequent port changes.  This is a very different thing than being at sea and suddenly running into high winds or fog that prevent docking.  All cruisers know this is an acceptable risk of cruising.  Or, if you don’t, you learn it sooner or later.

 

However, at this point Oceania is well aware that they are providing a cruise that is NOT remotely what was ordered and paid for.  And they know it WELL in ADVANCE.  Our requests for a FFC, not a refund, have been met with a response of “It is a hard no.”  How is this not illegal……to force passengers, two weeks prior, to accept going on a cruise that is significantly altered, paying the same fees and have no recourse?  How is this not fraudulent on the part of Oceania?

 

There may be people who are okay with having the Greek ports substituted.  Fine.  Let them sail and let me not sail.  I have been to the Greek ports multiple times.  If I had seen a cruise with this itinerary in a brochure, I would never have booked it.  Now, as the situation currently stands, I am being forced to go on a very expensive cruise I don’t want and didn’t purchase or cancel and lose all of my money.  Oceania is not doing the right thing for passengers on this cruise because they know WELL IN ADVANCE that they are providing what the customer did not buy, but expecting us to just go along with this con game.  They still have time to save the situation. I hope they do.

 

Joanie

 

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

If you read your Ticket Contract and the O T&Cs you’ll find that making your deposit accepted the agreement that O is only responsible for getting you from embarkation to disembarkation with allowance for any itinerary changes that keep you, the crew and the ship safe.

 

I’m sure that you’ll agree that O has made itinerary changes necessary for your safety. And, even if you don’t agree, it really doesn’t matter in the bigger picture of the situation.

 

O has done its best to substitute safe and reasonable ports and is not charging you anything extra for the added port expenses it will incur. Remember too that many of your fellow passengers have done all the original and substitute ports many times. Whether you like it or not, a cruise is more than just the ports.

 

And, finally, you have no idea what Onis going to eventually do (if anything) in terms of compensation for your situation.

 

We had three Covid era affected O cruises ranging from one with numerous port changes and a totally different final destination to another completely cancelled to one more with a negotiated replacement cruise.   Bottom line is that O was more than generous in fare compensation, bonus SBC and other $ adjustments.

 

Finally, like me, you should know that the “poop can hit the fan” anytime. That’s why any savvy traveler always prepares him/herself for the worst possible scenario.

[GeezerCouple]

10 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

If you read your Ticket Contract and the O T&Cs you’ll find that making your deposit accepted the agreement that O is only responsible for getting you from embarkation to disembarkation with allowance for any itinerary changes that keep you, the crew and the ship safe.

 

I’m sure that you’ll agree that O has made itinerary changes necessary for your safety. And, even if you don’t agree, it really doesn’t matter in the bigger picture of the situation.

 

O has done its best to substitute safe and reasonable ports and is not charging you anything extra for the added port expenses it will incur. Remember too that many of your fellow passengers have done all the original and substitute ports many times. Whether you like it or not, a cruise is more than just the ports.

 

And, finally, you have no idea what Onis going to eventually do (if anything) in terms of compensation for your situation.

 

We had three Covid era affected O cruises ranging from one with numerous port changes and a totally different final destination to another completely cancelled to one more with a negotiated replacement cruise.   Bottom line is that O was more than generous in fare compensation, bonus SBC and other $ adjustments.

 

Finally, like me, you should know that the “poop can hit the fan” anytime. That’s why any savvy traveler always prepares him/herself for the worst possible scenario.

 

Flatbush Flyer has explained it all.

 

You have been here on CC since 2009, and have been fairly active (well more than 1k posts, closer to 2k posts).

Surely you've read about situations like this... where there were changes made and there were no refunds/etc.  "How many changes is too many?"  Everyone who has changes made to their itinerary might feel that it was "too different" from the "cruise they purchased".

But the "terms and conditions" of any contract, including that for a cruise, are what determines the "rights" of each party.

 

This won't help for 'now', but for the future:  This type of possibility if one of the reasons (but not the main one) that we get travel insurance that includes "CFAR" (Cancel For Any Reason).  IF we want to cancel, with the type of policy we get, as long as we make the change at least 48 hours before departure, we would get back 75% of our non-refundable costs, and in *cash*, not credits that might have a time limit.

It's the best we can do if we are concerned about "unfortunate events" of various types.

 

ALWAYS read the full terms and conditions of any contract that you are agreeing to; that's useful in all areas of life.

 

GC

[GeorgiaPeach51]

“@FlatbrushFlyer

And, finally, you have no idea what Onis going to eventually do (if anything) in terms of compensation for your situation.”
 

Of course.  That is obvious!  But all I can deal with is what O is telling me NOW.  My hope is that they will eventually do something before it is too late.

 

“Whether you like it or not, a cruise is more than just the ports.”  
 

This is far from fact, though you state it to be fact.  That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it, but it is not a fact.  For many people a cruise is ALL about the ports, whether you like it or not.  

 

@GeezerCouple…..

I have never before purchased a cruise and had the itinerary changed BEFORE sailing.  Not once in more than 25 cruises.  So this is a totally new and unexpected and very unwelcome surprise.  For those of you who have more experience, or perhaps less luck than I, obviously this wouldn’t bother you in the least, but I am not among you.

 

Joanie

Edited October 15, 2023 by GeorgiaPeach51

[cruisemom42]

Whether you’ve been impacted previously or not, you must have read of these situations in the past 14 years you’ve been on CC? I know I’ve read of them multiple times, quite a few of which have involved previous dust-ups in Israel and subsequent itinerary changes. I remember vividly on the Celebrity boards about ten years ago where it almost came to an onboard mutiny for exactly the same complaint: an Israel/Egypt itinerary became a Greek Isles cruise…

 

I understand it is frustrating, but the facts are such that the cruise lines do not HAVE to provide a refund or future cruise credit or opportunity to reschedule. That said, they frequently do offer some kind of compensation for such significant changes. However, they’re not going to let you know anything until it’s got the official blessing. (And offers may vary by country as different countries have different contract terms.)

 

You keep saying they had known about this “well in advance.” I’m not sure I’d categorize one month prior to a sailing as well in advance to find new ports with berths available (most are scheduled many months in advance) that are navigable overnight from other reserved ports and that will allow them to begin and end at the scheduled ports.

 

There is a reason why I have heard for more than 50 years of cruising that if a particular port or region is your overriding focus, you are better off taking a land trip than a cruise. 

[cayman09]

You seem to indicate that Oceania is the only cruise line in this situation when in fact all lines with the same ports are facing the same decision. Have you seen anything posted on these boards that leads you to believe that Oceania is an outlier it their decision? I know you're disappointed but to lash out against one line without knowing if other affected ones are doing something different is a bit self centered.

[zak477]

Go to the Regent boards and check out the stories of Oceania's sister company and what they are doing or not doing. 

The Oct. 15 on the Regent Voyager looks and reads like a horror story for many. It seems that the Regent Customer Service Dept. is anything but Service. 

[GeorgiaPeach51]

I have never before purchased a cruise and had the itinerary changed BEFORE sailing. Not once in more than 25 cruises. 
 

I said this but remembered that the last Regent cruise we took did change one day from their private island to Freeport, Bahamas.  Didn’t change the fundamental cruise.

[GeorgiaPeach51]

 

 I certainly don’t think this is a problem unique to Oceania.  I have read this week that Celebrity has offered FCC’s, so I certainly don’t think it is fair to call me selfish if I have a problem with my cruise line provider!  That is my right as a buyer!  Sheesh, are we not allowed to even say a peep over our issues on this forum that is called Cruise Critic?!

 

To me, and apparently ONLY to me, there is a difference in O, or any cruise line, having time to make substitute ports, which, believe it or not I understand, and them reaching out to passengers with an FCC offer that allows passengers so severely affected by their changes that gives an option other than shut up and sail, regardless.  I fully recognize that they are scrambling and that is not my point.

 

well, thanks to all who responded.  My intent was to put this out where O may see it, since they probably don’t read the roll calls, where there is ample unhappiness and dissatisfaction, along with some who are happy campers because they have never been to the Greek ports.  In addition to contacting the top folks, which I have done, this board can be used to voice opinions that are sometimes noted by the cruise line, so we will see if there is any effort at all from O.  From your adamant responses, I expect that will not be the case.  If they do respond, I will let you know.

 

Joanie

[clojacks]

Out of curiosity, why would Port Said be changed and not Alexandria? Wouldn't both be considered relatively unstable at this point?

 

I know a lot of the posters are jumping to O's "legal" defense, but I tend to agree with the OP...these decisions were made prior to sailing. Whether the contracts...THAT WE ALL ARE AWARE OF...I don't see the point of berating the OP with the fine print... support O's ability to not issue compensation or allow the OP to cancel, unfortunately, these political situations are becoming more and more possible across the globe. So, why should the cruiselines not recognize this and alter their legally allowed practices in the name of "good business practices".

 

 

[Croooser]

Anyone who plans travel anywhere that has a recent history of unrest - like anywhere in the Middle East - should be well aware of the possibility of disruptions and the potential disruption to itineraries.

 

There is sometimes a point of view expressed on these boards that the cruise lines must go out of pocket for any and all deviations to a cruise schedule - regardless of whether or not the cruise line is responsible. 

 

Fact is, that unless the cruise line is responsible for the cause of the deviation - e.g. mechanical issues, deviations are a shared risk between the cruise line and it's guests. Choosing to not acknowledge that does not change anything.

 

See my TJ sig line.

 

 

[cbb]

thought I'd pass this on.....

 

We attempted to acquire trip insurance from a well known and reputable company only to be told that because Israeli ports are on the itinerary we cannot be insured.  This is for a 2025 cruise.

 

 

[ToxM]

I am surprised Tunisia is on the new itin.

 

I am sorry you are upset, the world is a troubled place at the moment, that area many times more so. 

 

 

[EJL2023]

1 hour ago, clojacks said:

Out of curiosity, why would Port Said be changed and not Alexandria? Wouldn't both be considered relatively unstable at this point?

 

I know a lot of the posters are jumping to O's "legal" defense, but I tend to agree with the OP...these decisions were made prior to sailing. Whether the contracts...THAT WE ALL ARE AWARE OF...I don't see the point of berating the OP with the fine print... support O's ability to not issue compensation or allow the OP to cancel, unfortunately, these political situations are becoming more and more possible across the globe. So, why should the cruiselines not recognize this and alter their legally allowed practices in the name of "good business practices".

 

 

I would assume because Port Said is at the Suez Canal which potentially could be seeing more traffic for war strategic means.  

[Vineyard View]

It is a such a sad and horrifying situation right now. No words. While I have wanted to see that part of the world, I always knew that it could be dicey. We learned a hard lesson years ago on a sailing that included Cairo and Alexandrea, and decided to pull back from further exploration in a few ports on your itinerary. That said, I have ‘traveled’ vicariously through others, so I do understand the appeal. 
 

I completely agree that reaching out to your insurance company would be a wise step to take at this point. As in today. As basor said, civil unrest is often included so it would be worth pursuing. 

I am surprised that they keep Alexandria and also turned it into an overnight. 
 

Mostly, I really hope that the current war is short lived for all those who are living through this horrendous tragedy. I also hope that you can find a resolution that works for you. 

[Pandazoo]

I am always amazed at people who do not read their contract/ticket.

[Flatbush Flyer]

11 hours ago, GeorgiaPeach51 said:

…..“Whether you like it or not, a cruise is more than just the ports.”  
 

This is far from fact, though you state it to be fact.  That is your opinion, and you are entitled to it, but it is not a fact.  For many people a cruise is ALL about the ports, whether you like it or not.  

 

@GeezerCouple…..I have never before purchased a cruise and had the itinerary changed BEFORE sailing.  Not once in more than 25 cruises.  

It certainly is a fact. While the included ports are important (perhaps the MOST important element of a cruise) for some folks, the reality remains that it also represents your daily room and board and the quality of that part of your purchase. That FACT is why there are multiple segments in the cruise industry with each one offering similar itineraries though at sometimes significantly different price points.

If you are unaware or don’t care at all that O is a fine balance of often unusual itineraries AND a stellar offering of amenities, food and service, it probably isn’t a good cruiseline choice for you.

 

As for not ever having had pre-cruise changed/cancelled ports, welcome to the contemporary world of cruising (regardless of which cruiseline you use).

[KS&JW]

3 hours ago, zak477 said:

Go to the Regent boards and check out the stories of Oceania's sister company and what they are doing or not doing. 

The Oct. 15 on the Regent Voyager looks and reads like a horror story for many. It seems that the Regent Customer Service Dept. is anything but Service. 

I'm just over there reading this now.  Thanks for the tip. 

[EJL2023]

2 hours ago, GeorgiaPeach51 said:

I have never before purchased a cruise and had the itinerary changed BEFORE sailing. Not once in more than 25 cruises. 
 

I said this but remembered that the last Regent cruise we took did change one day from their private island to Freeport, Bahamas.  Didn’t change the fundamental cruise.

I truly understand why you are upset and hopefully things will work out in the long run once it all settles.  But with regard to your comment about never had an itinerary changed before sailing in 25 previous cruises……did any of these 25 have a war break out in visiting countries 3 weeks prior to your sail date? If not, I think we can all agree this is a unique situation and perhaps justifies the change in itinerary before sailing. 

[GeorgiaPeach51]

16 minutes ago, EJL2023 said:

I truly understand why you are upset and hopefully things will work out in the long run once it all settles.  But with regard to your comment about never had an itinerary changed before sailing in 25 previous cruises……did any of these 25 have a war break out in visiting countries 3 weeks prior to your sail date? If not, I think we can all agree this is a unique situation and perhaps justifies the change in itinerary before sailing. 

Please understand, and I think I have repeated several times, that I TOTALLY understand the need for the itinerary changes.  That is not the issue at all.  I just think an FCC is justified in this case.

 

@Pandazoo to the person who noted they were mystified by people who don’t read cruise contracts, and made the assumption that we had not….believe it or not, we have!  So did plenty of other cruisers who have received FCC’s for various cruises for a wide variety of issues, none of which were covered in the cruise contract.  I am hoping for the same good will from Oceania, even though, just as in the thousands of other cases of FCC’s being awarded, it goes against Oceania’s stated policies.

 

Joanie

[basor]

2 minutes ago, GeorgiaPeach51 said:

Please understand, and I think I have repeated several times, that I TOTALLY understand the need for the itinerary changes.  That is not the issue at all.  I just think an FCC is justified in this case.

 

@Pandazoo to the person who noted they were mystified by people who don’t read cruise contracts, and made the assumption that we had not….believe it or not, we have!  So did plenty of other cruisers who have received FCC’s for various cruises for a wide variety of issues, none of which were covered in the cruise contract.  I am hoping for the same good will from Oceania, even though, just as in the thousands of other cases of FCC’s being awarded, it goes against Oceania’s stated policies.

 

Joanie

How much do you feel you should receive for entire cruise itinerary switched from what you had booked through no fault of the cruise line?   

[GeorgiaPeach51]

25 minutes ago, basor said:

How much do you feel you should receive for entire cruise itinerary switched from what you had booked through no fault of the cruise line?   

No idea,  no experience with FCC’s.  I want something other than “a hard no”, to start.  Loaded question the way you phrase it, but you have made your stance pretty clear.  You are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine.  If I put out a number you will come back to attempt to debate me on it, I would imagine, so I will not be drawn into that with you, respectfully.  I can think of no other reason you would want to know my number….and since I have zero input on it, there’s no reason to discuss it.

 

Joanie
 

Joanie

[Snaefell3]

 

13 hours ago, GeorgiaPeach51 said:

But all I can deal with is what O is telling me NOW.  

My  2¢:  Why doesn't O tell us their final plan NOW?  Perhaps because the situation is --uhmm-- unstable?

 

 

[sunlover12]

I'll chime in.  I understand the disappointment and frustration of the OP however as many have already pointed out, the cruise line can legally change the itinerary. What is happening in that region is a tragic situation and major changes must be made to the itineraries involved, through no fault of Oceania and other cruise lines.

 

As cruisers, we are aware that ports and itineraries can change with little notice. I accept that. If there are certain places that a person has their heart set on visiting, consider booking a land tour. 

 

Regarding Oceania issuing FCCs, I understand why they are reluctant to do so.  If there are too many passengers on that cruise who don't like the new itinerary for whatever reason, where does that leave Oceania? What was once a possibly fully booked cruise may then be half booked 3 weeks before the cruise is set to embark.  I do not think an FCC is justified. 

[basor]

1 hour ago, GeorgiaPeach51 said:

No idea,  no experience with FCC’s.  I want something other than “a hard no”, to start.  Loaded question the way you phrase it, but you have made your stance pretty clear.  You are entitled to your opinion, and I am entitled to mine.  If I put out a number you will come back to attempt to debate me on it, I would imagine, so I will not be drawn into that with you, respectfully.  I can think of no other reason you would want to know my number….and since I have zero input on it, there’s no reason to discuss it.

 

Joanie
 

Joanie

I am sorry you feel this way - it was an honest question and I have no idea what people consider fair for an itinerary that is so drastically changed.  Perhaps they are waiting to offer something once they know what the final itinerary is as there , obviously, could be more changes before you sail....we have never been in your situation so have no idea what others consider fair...