Elegant Jeans on Seabourn? Now, what is that? What does Esquire say?

[SLSD]

This post is mostly for Americans, because I think those of you in the UK will never understand (and why should you?).  My good friend Markham has made an impression on this Texan with his comments about saggy baggy jeans on older men.  I absolutely would not let Mr. SLSD bring his cowboy jeans on our last Seabourn cruise.  I shamed him into buying a pair of slim cut Patagonia jeans (dark wash of course) to wear on excursions last summer in Norway.  He looked great in them.  I have a photo to prove it--and I'll find it and post it here in a bit.  

 

Just now, he sent me this article from Esquire (magazine) as proof that I don't know what I am talking about when it comes to jeans.  I said, go ahead and buy (another pair) of Wrangler jeans and take them on our Seabourn cruise next summer.  After all, who am I to dispute what the men's fashion critics of Esquire have to say?

 

Now, before all you jeans critics have a fit, you need to realize that denim jeans are an accepted uniform for men (and probably for women) in the US---for better or worse.  Mr. SLSD has on a pair of Wranglers (too faded for Seabourn) right now and is looking pretty good!  

 

https://www.esquire.com/style/mens-fashion/a45629186/wrangler-cowboy-cut-jeans-review/?fbclid=IwAR3tP4u8EYTeHKclHNHpf4-ZPIr4G_S0Fbnl7WB668TEPeOsfUGH9HOu21Y

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by SLSD

[SLSD]

Just a further comment to say that Mr. SLSD was not standing in a precarious spot here--even though it may look like it.  He was just standing on a large rock in a safe place.  And, Mr. SLSD would never wear jeans to dinner in The Restaurant.  

Edited October 25, 2023 by SLSD

[cruiseej]

@SLSD  Well, just to properly frame the issue,  jeans — of any fit, color or type — are and have always been acceptable for daytime touring and excursions. That could include baggy jeans (ugh!), acid-washed jeans, etc. The only issue which has been discussed and debated is whether they can/should be worn in the evening, and if so, what defines jeans which qualify as "elegant".  The Esquire article you cited focuses on the opposite of baggy jeans for men: jeans which make the, um, posterior look good. (Both the slim-cut Patagonia ones you make Mr. SLSD purchase and the Wrangler ones described in the article seem to meet that criterion.) Whether that alone is sufficient to meet the "elegant" standard is open to interpretation. And then there's the separate but equal question of what makes women's jeans "elegant". 🤣

 

And here's something interesting: I just went to check the Seabourn website to make sure I used the correct terminology when mentioning the dress code. The Frequently Asked Questions section has two identical listings for the dress code, and both appear to have the language from the old dress code: "Jeans are welcome in all dining venues during the day, but not appropriate in The Restaurant after 6pm." Which directly contradicts the revised dress code they announced at the end of 2022, in which they said "Elegant jeans are now welcome in all dining venues." With all the website issues Seabourn has, perhaps I shouldn't be surprised that 9 months after revising the dress code, they still haven't updated their website! 🤣

 

P.S. Thanks for starting this tread; it feels like we've gone many weeks without a dress code discussion. 🤣

 

(Emojis above denote that all is said in good fun.)

[SLSD]

39 minutes ago, cruiseej said:

@SLSD  Well, just to properly frame the issue,  jeans — of any fit, color or type — are and have always been acceptable for daytime touring and excursions. That could include baggy jeans (ugh!), acid-washed jeans, etc. The only issue which has been discussed and debated is whether they can/should be worn in the evening, and if so, what defines jeans which qualify as "elegant".  The Esquire article you cited focuses on the opposite of baggy jeans for men: jeans which make the, um, posterior look good. (Both the slim-cut Patagonia ones you make Mr. SLSD purchase and the Wrangler ones described in the article seem to meet that criterion.) Whether that alone is sufficient to meet the "elegant" standard is open to interpretation. And then there's the separate but equal question of what makes women's jeans "elegant". 🤣

 

And here's something interesting: I just went to check the Seabourn website to make sure I used the correct terminology when mentioning the dress code. The Frequently Asked Questions section has two identical listings for the dress code, and both appear to have the language from the old dress code: "Jeans are welcome in all dining venues during the day, but not appropriate in The Restaurant after 6pm." Which directly contradicts the revised dress code they announced at the end of 2022, in which they said "Elegant jeans are now welcome in all dining venues." With all the website issues Seabourn has, perhaps I shouldn't be surprised that 9 months after revising the dress code, they still haven't updated their website! 🤣

 

P.S. Thanks for starting this tread; it feels like we've gone many weeks without a dress code discussion. 🤣

 

(Emojis above denote that all is said in good fun.)

I started this thread as a light hearted topic (so thank you for recognizing that) , responding to Mr. SLSD's aha moment that the jeans he loves are not saggy/baggy.   I say if they are--then they must not be the right size!

 

There have been SOME posters who have posited that jeans just don't belong on a cruise--and why bring them.  They point out that they are heavy and  say that they take up too much space in luggage.  They overlook the fact that jeans are a staple of everyday wear for many Americans and we don't travel many places without them.  I hope everyone will read the Esquire article--published today.  

 

I was aware that Seabourn has not updated their dress code everywhere.  This just speaks to some sloppiness by the line.  I would expect a luxury line to be top notch in every way---including their online presence.  

Edited October 26, 2023 by SLSD

[markham]

SLSD, I have indeed met Mr SLSD and never did it cross my mind to consider his dress sense. He is -or was then- slim and tall, and he whatever he wore was good daytime wear. I expect you would have it no other way!

 

The offenders who come to mind in past years (especially the Antarctic cruise this year on Quest) were somethin’ else. The guy with the open toed sandals he wore all the time on board with the teal painted toe nails, ancient, droopy and baggy jeans and chinos and flannel shirts, and his ample wife in tee shirts with no foundations set the standard for no standards. Maybe they brought nothing with them and live out of a single wheelie or backpack? Who knows, who cares.

 

So what to make of that? Maybe nothing if he were the only one. But it is safe to say that for some of the mix the days of casual elegance I remember from Seabourn ships is largely gone with the new mix. And yes, that would include the characters hollering across the Observation Bar at one another, as if they were in Senor Frogs during frat house Easter Spring break. You’ve seen them too, for sure.

 

Yep…. I have moved on. The convergence of nostalgia for ole Seabourn and my own age/disposition makes the prospect of encountering these cartoon characters on Seabourn something to avoid. I guess it’s now “Their Moment”, as the latest bumph says. But for my money and time it’s just no longer gonna be my moment.

Happy and healthy sailing!

 

[SLSD]

6 hours ago, markham said:

SLSD, I have indeed met Mr SLSD and never did it cross my mind to consider his dress sense. He is -or was then- slim and tall, and he whatever he wore was good daytime wear. I expect you would have it no other way!

 

The offenders who come to mind in past years (especially the Antarctic cruise this year on Quest) were somethin’ else. The guy with the open toed sandals he wore all the time on board with the teal painted toe nails, ancient, droopy and baggy jeans and chinos and flannel shirts, and his ample wife in tee shirts with no foundations set the standard for no standards. Maybe they brought nothing with them and live out of a single wheelie or backpack? Who knows, who cares.

 

So what to make of that? Maybe nothing if he were the only one. But it is safe to say that for some of the mix the days of casual elegance I remember from Seabourn ships is largely gone with the new mix. And yes, that would include the characters hollering across the Observation Bar at one another, as if they were in Senor Frogs during frat house Easter Spring break. You’ve seen them too, for sure.

 

Yep…. I have moved on. The convergence of nostalgia for ole Seabourn and my own age/disposition makes the prospect of encountering these cartoon characters on Seabourn something to avoid. I guess it’s now “Their Moment”, as the latest bumph says. But for my money and time it’s just no longer gonna be my moment.

Happy and healthy sailing!

 

I totally understand Markham.  I remember your original posts about your so called Grand Cruise on the Quest.  I shuddered.  I considered that experience to be an insult to those of you who had trusted Seabourn to provide you with the experience you had paid for.  I don't blame you one bit for moving on.  On our cruise last June with Seabourn, we were met if not with the best food I've had on a Seabourn cruise, the best service.  And, maybe it was just my changing palette that wasn't wowed by the food as others were pleased (including Mr. SLSD).  We did have some stragglers who didn't seem to care what they wore or how they presented themselves.  I chalked it up to our changing society and what some might claim is rugged individualism and the determination to do it their way.  

 

I do consider some of Mr. SLSD's jeans to be a bit saggy and baggy.  It's fine if he wears those at our East Texas farm, but I don't consider them appropriate for a cruise, so I was happy to insist that he get a new pair of slim dark indigo jeans. And I will admit to using your saggy baggy description to bolster my insistence that he purchase an appropriate pair of jeans for the trip.  I recognize that denim  is not common casual wear in London for peope our age or even in the countryside in the UK.  Different cultures.  We're going to try the Wrangler styles extolled in the Esquire article and see what we think.  

 

We still haven't made the leap to Silversea (even though it was our firsr cruiseline) as I find the posters in their facebook group to be bordering on insufferable. I also remember finding Silversea's idea of musical entertainment to be laughable.  We'll see what next year brings.  

Edited October 26, 2023 by SLSD

[Astride]

Who the hell cares? I always dress elegantly for dinner & I don't care what anyone else does.

[cruiseej]

55 minutes ago, Astride said:

Who the hell cares? I always dress elegantly for dinner & I don't care what anyone else does.

 

I think that's the perfect attitude and approach! But when you read these forums —the Silversea forum is far worse on this topic — some people get very fired up about what other people wear. And what the cruise lines do or don't require. And how the cruise lines do or don't enforce their rules. 

[SLSD]

4 hours ago, Astride said:

Who the hell cares? I always dress elegantly for dinner & I don't care what anyone else does.

This was just a light hearted thread---inspired by the article from Esquire.  There had been discussion in the last year about what constitutes elegant jeans.  The article disparages designer jeans and extolls basic Wrangler jeans.   

[frantic36]

2 hours ago, SLSD said:

This was just a light hearted thread---inspired by the article from Esquire.  There had been discussion in the last year about what constitutes elegant jeans.  The article disparages designer jeans and extolls basic Wrangler jeans.   

I know you mean well but I think most of us don't want to have further discussions about clothing. Because it never stays light hearted.

[SLSD]

6 hours ago, frantic36 said:

I know you mean well but I think most of us don't want to have further discussions about clothing. Because it never stays light hearted.

I think some are just not able to discern what is light hearted and what is not.  The article in Esquire set the tone.  The whole idea of trying to decide what constitutes elegant jeans makes me laugh.  

[lincslady]

IMO the truth is that jeans can look elegant on an elegant person - otherwise, not.

[Sir PMP]

This is elegant:

[markham]

Yes, I concur. That shlubbs are shlubbs, always were and always will be.

And in the spirit of goodwill, I hasten to add that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and there is someone for everyone.

 

Happy and healthy sailing!

[SLSD]

46 minutes ago, lincslady said:

IMO the truth is that jeans can look elegant on an elegant person - otherwise, not.

You may be right.  It's too bad that we can't all be elegant.  I mean that sincerely.  

[cruiseej]

9 hours ago, Sir PMP said:

This is elegant:

 

@Sir PMP No, I don't think anyone would consider the jeans in this picture to be elegant. They might be expensive, or a fancy designer, or trendy, or "in" — but those labels are not the same as elegant. And I do believe most reasonable people (excluding those who find all jeans abominable in all forms and at all times) can make a reasonable interpretation of what jeans would pass for "elegant" on an upscale cruise. New, dark-color, well-fitting Wrangler jeans extolled in the Esquire article would pass muster; jeans which have been used in the garden or farm would not. Nor would jeans which cost ten times as much but are distressed and torn because it's currently in vogue in some areas would not.

 

(Of course, there will always be the small minority who don't care about rules and will do whatever they want because the rules don't apply to them. 🤣)

 

16 hours ago, frantic36 said:

I think most of us don't want to have further discussions about clothing.

 

I understand your point, but I think the answer is simply to stop reading the threads that don't interest (or annoy) you. You don't need to have further discussions about clothing, or even read them; just keep scrolling on by. 😄

[frantic36]

29 minutes ago, cruiseej said:

understand your point, but I think the answer is simply to stop reading the threads that don't interest (or annoy) you. You don't need to have further discussions about clothing, or even read them; just keep scrolling on by. 😄

 

I am like Astride I like to dress elegantly in the evening and also no longer care how others dress. But if you want to discuss this topic again which causes disagreement go ahead. I would understand if was a question  by someone new to Seabourn looking for insight but I have no care what Esquire thinks, now if it was Vogue I might have more interest.🙂

 

But for now I will do as you suggest and ignore the whole topic.

Edited October 27, 2023 by frantic36

[SLSD]

2 hours ago, frantic36 said:

 

I am like Astride I like to dress elegantly in the evening and also no longer care how others dress. But if you want to discuss this topic again which causes disagreement go ahead. I would understand if was a question  by someone new to Seabourn looking for insight but I have no care what Esquire thinks, now if it was Vogue I might have more interest.🙂

 

But for now I will do as you suggest and ignore the whole topic.

Esquire is a magazine primarily for men so I am not surprised it doesn't interest you. Chris Black, the author of the essay I posted writes well and is entertaining.  There are many threads I never read because they don't interest me.  I just scroll by as cruiseej suggests,  instead of telling the poster that I am not interested in what they write.  As I said above, my thread was meant to be a bit of levity.  Some people got that and some did not.  I also wanted to thank Markham for his saggy baggy comments because I used his comments to persuade my husband to buy a new pair of jeans.  The fact that my husband met Markham on an earlier cruise contributed to his decision to pay attention to Markham's comment.  So there you have it.  I will not apologize for starting this thread.  Sheesh...

Edited October 28, 2023 by SLSD

[kjbacon]

I very much appreciate the humor here and we could all be open to the other guy’s interpretations of things … be it humor or elegance. There is no one and only way.

[SLSD]

3 hours ago, kjbacon said:

I very much appreciate the humor here and we could all be open to the other guy’s interpretations of things … be it humor or elegance. There is no one and only way.

You are right.  We all interpret things differently.  There may be perfectly acceptable modes of dress that others think are elegant and charming that I don't like.  That means I have to be a bit tolerant. The same goes with what we choose to post.   We have different personalities which affect how we choose to dress and what we write about.  I'm glad you appreciate the humor I tried to inject here. 

[JMB56]

First of all, please do not think of jeans as something that are primarily worn by Americans. I visited Selfridges on Oxford Street this morning, and I dare say more than half of the clientele I encountered were wearing jeans (elegant or not). That’s both men and women. Many of the saleswomen hawking perfume in the store’s centre hall were wearing jeans, God forbid

 

I only bought items from the Selfredges Food Hall.  I did purchase a pair of jeans this morning; they are black, slim-fitting and, in my mind, rather elegant-looking. However, I must admit that I purchased them at that shop across Baker Street from Selfredges, a place called Marks & Spencer. I doubt Mr L has ever set foot in the place, but I can only assume his billfold is a bit thicker than mine.

 

I shall travel on Seabourn for the first time next month to Antarctica.  My question is: Will my £26, slim-fitting M&S jeans be appropriate for daywear, or should I send off for a pair of £120 Patagonia jeans (both pictured)?  BTW, to reassure others, I plan to wear proper woolen trousers in the main dining room during the evening, along with a tweed sport coat.  I assume a tie will not be required as it is an expedition cruise, although I shall obviously be wearing a dress shirt.

 

Please accept this post in the spirit in which it was written!

 😄

[Tallante]

16 hours ago, frantic36 said:

 

I am like Astride I like to dress elegantly in the evening and also no longer care how others dress. But if you want to discuss this topic again which causes disagreement go ahead. I would understand if was a question  by someone new to Seabourn looking for insight but I have no care what Esquire thinks, now if it was Vogue I might have more interest.🙂

 

But for now I will do as you suggest and ignore the whole topic.

Well said Julie. I just find it amusing that there are people who have time to post these articles.  

[SLSD]

14 minutes ago, Tallante said:

Well said Julie. I just find it amusing that there are people who have time to post these articles.  

  I am vacationing in Santa Fe and wrote the original post while lounging on our patio here. Mr. SLSD and I are taking a well deserved rest after experiencing grave illness within our family.  Please be careful when you make a comment like yours as you have NO idea of the circumstances of others. One never knows why someone has time... I enjoy this group and like to contribute a bit of humor now and again.  I think we all need that.  

Edited October 28, 2023 by SLSD

[SLSD]

39 minutes ago, JMB56 said:

First of all, please do not think of jeans as something that are primarily worn by Americans. I visited Selfridges on Oxford Street this morning, and I dare say more than half of the clientele I encountered were wearing jeans (elegant or not). That’s both men and women. Many of the saleswomen hawking perfume in the store’s centre hall were wearing jeans, God forbid

 

I only bought items from the Selfredges Food Hall.  I did purchase a pair of jeans this morning; they are black, slim-fitting and, in my mind, rather elegant-looking. However, I must admit that I purchased them at that shop across Baker Street from Selfredges, a place called Marks & Spencer. I doubt Mr L has ever set foot in the place, but I can only assume his billfold is a bit thicker than mine.

 

I shall travel on Seabourn for the first time next month to Antarctica.  My question is: Will my £26, slim-fitting M&S jeans be appropriate for daywear, or should I send off for a pair of £120 Patagonia jeans (both pictured)?  BTW, to reassure others, I plan to wear proper woolen trousers in the main dining room during the evening, along with a tweed sport coat.  I assume a tie will not be required as it is an expedition cruise, although I shall obviously be wearing a dress shirt.

 

Please accept this post in the spirit in which it was written!

 😄

 

40 minutes ago, JMB56 said:

First of all, please do not think of jeans as something that are primarily worn by Americans. I visited Selfridges on Oxford Street this morning, and I dare say more than half of the clientele I encountered were wearing jeans (elegant or not). That’s both men and women. Many of the saleswomen hawking perfume in the store’s centre hall were wearing jeans, God forbid

 

I only bought items from the Selfredges Food Hall.  I did purchase a pair of jeans this morning; they are black, slim-fitting and, in my mind, rather elegant-looking. However, I must admit that I purchased them at that shop across Baker Street from Selfredges, a place called Marks & Spencer. I doubt Mr L has ever set foot in the place, but I can only assume his billfold is a bit thicker than mine.

 

I shall travel on Seabourn for the first time next month to Antarctica.  My question is: Will my £26, slim-fitting M&S jeans be appropriate for daywear, or should I send off for a pair of £120 Patagonia jeans (both pictured)?  BTW, to reassure others, I plan to wear proper woolen trousers in the main dining room during the evening, along with a tweed sport coat.  I assume a tie will not be required as it is an expedition cruise, although I shall obviously be wearing a dress shirt.

 

Please accept this post in the spirit in which it was written!

 😄

JMB56--Go with the Mark and Spencer jeans as they look more authentic.  While they are not Wranglers, they appear to be the next best thing.  (All said in jest of course). 

 

[JMB56]

14 minutes ago, Tallante said:

Well said Julie. I just find it amusing that there are people who have time to post these articles.  

We retirees are always looking for something annoying to do! 🙂