Navigator....and what happened to the grand old days of cruising?

[The Fun Researcher]

If you want the old style of cruising, you have to pay for it.  I imagine that style still exists on the likes of Oceania, Silversea, Regent, Viking, etc...

 

The price of cruising has come down drastically (relative to personal income) compared to those years past

[bonsai3s]

Cruiserchris2009...agree with everything you said...regrettably, those that have been cruising for many years can see this, but new cruisers don't. I remember when Chops was $19.

 

Random things that have been cut/removed over the years (that I liked and can still remember):

 

* Chocolates on the bed in the evening. We would literally take some home as a reminder of our cruise.

 

* On RCCL, they used to have a golf simulator...loved the "long drive" and "closest the pin" competition.

 

* Ok, the midnight buffet...yes, it was a lot of wasted food...but what beautiful food carvings.

 

* Speaking of carvings, what about the ice carvings? Who remembers that?

 

* RCCL used to provide one night free hotel if you had a day between your 2 cruises.

 

* Free sushi in the Windjammer.

 

* A Sommelier in the MDR. Gosh, I remember when they walked around the dining room and sold "single shots" of liquor.

 

* RCCL encouraged you to exercise by promoting "ShipShape" dollars...you earn them by participating in all types of exercise classes, then redeem them for goodies. I may still have a yellow "ShipShape" t-shirt.

 

* Chefs actually cooking by the pool...last time I saw this was on the Legend of the Seas.

 

* The much nicer, upgraded toiletries...L'Occitane.

 

Happy sailing!

 

 

[mjkacmom]

One thing I never understood was using a ship’s excursion for a beach day, we love beach days but just get a cab or taxi. We’ve booked several resort day passes on our own. Once we did book atlantis as an excursion, only because it was actually the cheapest way at that time. We ended up taking a cab back to the ship.

[smokeybandit]

50 minutes ago, mjkacmom said:

One thing I never understood was using a ship’s excursion for a beach day, we love beach days but just get a cab or taxi. We’ve booked several resort day passes on our own. Once we did book atlantis as an excursion, only because it was actually the cheapest way at that time. We ended up taking a cab back to the ship.

Because many

1) Think excursions are only available through the cruise line

2) Don't feel comfortable with booking excursions direct

3) Don't feel comfortable with or don't want the hassle of getting transportation on their own in a foreign country

[The Fun Researcher]

56 minutes ago, bonsai3s said:

Cruiserchris2009...agree with everything you said...regrettably, those that have been cruising for many years can see this, but new cruisers don't. I remember when Chops was $19.

 

Random things that have been cut/removed over the years (that I liked and can still remember):

 

* Chocolates on the bed in the evening. We would literally take some home as a reminder of our cruise.

 

* Speaking of carvings, what about the ice carvings? Who remembers that?

 

* Free sushi in the Windjammer.

 

* Chefs actually cooking by the pool...last time I saw this was on the Legend of the Seas.

 

Happy sailing!

 

 

 

It really hits home when you see so many listed like that.  I left the ones that we miss in your quote above.

 

In addition...

 

* Lamb Chops in the MDR

 

*Twice a day turndown service

 

 

[The Fun Researcher]

1 minute ago, smokeybandit said:

Because many

1) Think excursions are only available through the cruise line

2) Don't feel comfortable with booking excursions direct

3) Don't feel comfortable with or don't want the hassle of getting transportation on their own in a foreign country

...and the fact that Royal guarantees that the ship will wait for you if you are late.  That is a BIG one.

[karl_nj]

On 12/5/2023 at 1:20 PM, cruiserchris2009 said:

1. Windjammer shuts down at 9pm. It's not that I'm in the habit of stuffing my face at midnight but an aspect of cruising was the selection and availability of food. This 9pm shutdown was made all the more prominent due to the showtimes (see next item).

 

The hours have gotten worse, but the buffet hours have never been great on Royal. I noticed this even on my first Royal cruise years ago, compared to lines that basically have the buffet open almost 24 hours a day.  On Royal I guess they expect you to go to Cafe Promenade, but they have cut back on the number/quality of items there recently. 

 

On 12/5/2023 at 1:20 PM, cruiserchris2009 said:

2. My recollection was that they used to have shows and dinner seating well timed and it didn't matter if you had early or late dining. Now, the late show is 10:15pm so when you finish you second seating dinner by 9pm, you have to wait an hour and 15 minutes for the show. And then if you finish that show it's 11pm so if you decided to have a light dinner and you're feeling peckish, you have no free dining option other than Promenande which isn't much of a selection. We consistently noticed conflicts in show times with our dinner seating. It just didn't flow well. 

 

I feel this is an issue with the industry moving to 'my time dining'—was easier to schedule things when there were just two seatings, and you either did show and then dinner, or the other way around.  Disney still works this way, and I agree the showtimes work better.

 

 

On 12/5/2023 at 1:20 PM, cruiserchris2009 said:

 

3. Room service is only once a day now, no turn down service. Again, I appreciate that was a luxury and many hotels no longer even offer daily service, but by comparison, it is a cut back from what they used to do.

 

All the mainstream lines have switched to this, but I believe the more 'premium' lines are keeping twice a day. For now, at least.

 

On 12/5/2023 at 1:20 PM, cruiserchris2009 said:

 

 

6. Lots of nickel and diming and little cut backs. Something as simple as a tote bag in your room for beach trips etc.

 

 

 

You still get this on lines like Disney and Celebrity.

 

In any case, I feel all of your points are valid, and I agree all these little things do add up.  Personally, I also just like being on a ship, at sea, so for me taking a cruise will still trump an AI, but I can certainly see why not everyone would feel that way.

 

 

 

[Mum2Mercury]

On 12/5/2023 at 10:20 AM, cruiserchris2009 said:

1. Windjammer shuts down at 9pm. It's not that I'm in the habit of stuffing my face at midnight but an aspect of cruising was the selection and availability of food. 

Consider bringing something back to your room.  We often bring a couple ziplocks from home for the purpose of keeping some cheese and crackers -- or fruit -- in our room.  We also fairly often ask for our MDR dessert "to go".  Or bring dessert from Windjammer back to our room.  

On 12/5/2023 at 10:20 AM, cruiserchris2009 said:

3. Room service is only once a day now, no turn down service. Again, I appreciate that was a luxury and many hotels no longer even offer daily service, but by comparison, it is a cut back from what they used to do.

I'm salty about this one, and I'm gonna stay salty.  I would accept it IF it weren't accompanied by an increase in gratuities!  More money + reduced service.  Nope, it's impossible to rationalize.  

On 12/5/2023 at 10:20 AM, cruiserchris2009 said:

5. Crew/staff is as always fantastic and friendly but I definitely got the feeling of being overworked and overstretched.

Yes, I agree with both overworked and overstretched.  

On 12/5/2023 at 10:20 AM, cruiserchris2009 said:

6. Lots of nickel and diming and little cut backs. Something as simple as a tote bag in your room for beach trips etc.

Eh, I've been cruising since 2003 and have never been given a tote bag.  

On 12/5/2023 at 10:20 AM, cruiserchris2009 said:

Side note, I booked the beach getaway ... borderline scam.

All "beach getaways" are borderline scams.  Just take a taxi to a nearby beach.  Done.  

On 12/5/2023 at 1:37 PM, shipgeeks said:

We didn't observe anything as gross as your incidents above (thank goodness!); in fact, although much has become more casual, the Baltimore crowd is still quite pleasant and civil.

Honestly, I never see these gross things -- nor do I see out of control children.  

On 12/5/2023 at 4:30 PM, SG65CB said:

I also remember when the assistant waiter would come around the table with a basket of rolls and you'd ask for the one you want. Now they just put the basket on the table. 

I dislike this.  My husband and I almost always sit at a 2-top table, and we eat low-carb, yet they give us 7-8 rolls.  Wasteful. 

On 12/6/2023 at 6:36 AM, Ocean Boy said:

the "nominal" charge 

Admittedly, my idea of "nominal" rarely matches other people's.  

8 hours ago, Scottdalfonso said:

Yes.... I don't want to be rushed...I also don't want to be in the dining room for 2 hours. Our dinners on Oasis averaged about 65-70 minutes, and to me that is PERFECT! 

Yes, we were usually in the MDR about an hour and considered it "just right".  Part of that is that we are just a couple -- not eating at a large table. 

6 hours ago, travelberlin said:

Unfortunately I have never experienced a relaxed dinner or lunch at the Windjammer. It is always chaotic and loud.

Lunch can be crowded, but I wouldn't call it chaotic or loud.  

Dinner is often downright quiet.  

5 hours ago, Tatka said:

I’d say cruising became possible to less sophisticated crowd.

I'd argue that society has become "less sophisticated".  More rudeness, more me-first behavior.  

42 minutes ago, The Fun Researcher said:

...and the fact that Royal guarantees that the ship will wait for you if you are late.  That is a BIG one.

And that fear is grossly over-blown.  Aside from the handful of all-day excursions (Tulum Ruins being the poster child), most people return hours in advance of sailing.  And don't we all know how to read a watch?  No, the cruise line has convinced a lot of people that they're in GENUINE DANGER of missing the ship (!!!!!) if they put a toe off the ship without a Royal Caribbean excursion.  

[Tatka]

I cruise since 2003 and many things depend on cruise line.

I do not see a huge difference on RCI.

 

 

[The Fun Researcher]

35 minutes ago, Mum2Mercury said:

I'd argue that society has become "less sophisticated".  More rudeness, more me-first behavior.  

And that fear is grossly over-blown.  Aside from the handful of all-day excursions (Tulum Ruins being the poster child), most people return hours in advance of sailing.  And don't we all know how to read a watch?  No, the cruise line has convinced a lot of people that they're in GENUINE DANGER of missing the ship (!!!!!) if they put a toe off the ship without a Royal Caribbean excursion.  

Wait, you're assuming everyone on a cruise acts responsibly? 🤣😀  

 

I think some like knowing they will be rounded up when needed in time to get back in time.

 

Personally, we rarely book any excursions through the ship anymore.  Maybe 1 in 10 now

[HappyTexan44]

One thing I kept remembering when reading the OP was the pamphlet that was posted here awhile back from 1984.   It had made a big impression on me because a similar cruise in a similar room was very close in price to what I paid for our Feb 2024 cruise.  The actual dollar amount, not converted for inflation.  I bet if someone paid in real dollars the same as 1984 prices then the problems listed in the OP will go away.   I am talking about normal pricing on a more luxurious line so not Royal.  

 

I think of that when I get seriously grumpy about the airline cattle treatment.   I think of what flying was like when I was a youngin' as the Grand Ole Days.    I could fly first class for the converted dollars that I was spent for the tickets.   

 

[The Fun Researcher]

Add another...

 

Elimination of the paper Daily Compass (we still ask our room steward to bring them daily and it's been granted)

 

I'd rather peruse the next days events and circle things, highlight things, etc... on paper rather than looking at my cell phone screen.

[Morecruisesplz]

10 hours ago, travelberlin said:

Unfortunately I have never experienced a relaxed dinner or lunch at the Windjammer. It is always chaotic and loud.

Dinner is often quiet and comfortable when we go. Maybe the timing or the ships.

[nimbex1970]

I couldn't agree more!  Oh I do miss those midnight buffets with the carvings and late-night parties on deck as well. We are researching more "upscale" cruise lines to meet what I consider dining preferences and service expectations.  If I'm paying for all specialty restaurants, I'm figuring that cost into my overall cruise, plus RCL drink package is pricey.  It's opened up some alternatives that I initially thought were out of budget. Also has opened up some new places to visit.  

 

Unless I'm bringing the grandkids, my days with RCL are numbered and that's sad. Saying that, my expectations no longer coincide with the RCL experience, so it's time to move on and it's not RCL's fault. I simply expect something they don't provide and I have to find a new line to cruise with. The best memories on RCL and I'm thankful for that. 

[livingonthebeach]

On 12/5/2023 at 1:20 PM, cruiserchris2009 said:

Just came back from a 7 night cruise on Navigator of the seas. Of course it's awesome to cruise and I always view it as a privilege to be able to do so. I did however notice how much the cruise industry seems to have changed since my last cruise which was over 7 years ago.

 

I don't know how much is RCCL specific, navigator specific or cruise industry generally, but it was clear that the "decadence" of cruising has been greatly diminished with a lot of cutbacks. 

 

These are not complaints...and they may seem picky...no item by itself is an issue, but taken as a whole, it adds up to a less than stellar experience as compared to those of us who were fortunate enough to cruise in the "good ole days".

 

In no order, but things that I noticed:

 

1. Windjammer shuts down at 9pm. It's not that I'm in the habit of stuffing my face at midnight but an aspect of cruising was the selection and availability of food. This 9pm shutdown was made all the more prominent due to the showtimes (see next item).

 

2. My recollection was that they used to have shows and dinner seating well timed and it didn't matter if you had early or late dining. Now, the late show is 10:15pm so when you finish you second seating dinner by 9pm, you have to wait an hour and 15 minutes for the show. And then if you finish that show it's 11pm so if you decided to have a light dinner and you're feeling peckish, you have no free dining option other than Promenande which isn't much of a selection. We consistently noticed conflicts in show times with our dinner seating. It just didn't flow well. 

 

3. Room service is only once a day now, no turn down service. Again, I appreciate that was a luxury and many hotels no longer even offer daily service, but by comparison, it is a cut back from what they used to do.

 

4. The cost of the specialty restaurants was outrageous. It used to be that it was subsidized in that you pay something but it was better than "on-land" restaurant prices. Now Chops is $62.99 plus 18% and Jamies Italian was around $55 + 18%. Those are expensive even by traditional shore side restaurants. Feels like more than "inflation adjusted" pricing.

 

5. Crew/staff is as always fantastic and friendly but I definitely got the feeling of being overworked and overstretched. Service in the MDR was efficient but bar service slow. At times I wanted a second glass of wine but I knew if I ordered it they'd get it to me by the time my main course was done so I didn't bother. And everytime they asked me for my stateroom number, whether I had the beverage package etc. On my previous cruises they would always quickly learn your preferences.

 

6. Lots of nickel and diming and little cut backs. Something as simple as a tote bag in your room for beach trips etc.

 

7. Shoe excursions ungodly pricey if booking through the cruise line. And they of course give themselves the upper hand by letting RCCL booked excursions get first tender etc. Side note, I booked the beach getaway ... borderline scam. Shuttled us to a resort in a busy part of town where we ended up having to lie by the pool because the beach was awful (see picture) which we could have done at the ship if that's what we wanted. 

 

I feel the inflection point is being reached of cutbacks affecting the cruise experience, and making all inclusive resorts an attractive option again. 

 

Still to be clear, it's an awesome vacation. Go and enjoy it.

 

Side note, it's the fellow passengers sometimes that are the hardest to contend with. To wit, the family who let their kid take a big old dump on the pool deck and just quickly walked away, or the guy who sneezed a big old wet sneeze in the buffet, looked at his hand, wiped it on his shirt and proceeded to grab the serving tongs. It's a miracle we survived covid as a species.

 

The "luxury beach getaway":

 

 

I'm sorry you had a bad experience. I was on that same sailing as well and there were some positives. There were ducks - lots of ducks!!! These didn't exist back in the day. LOL 

 

We purchase the UDP on sale days, specifically on Black Friday or Cyber Monday so the price is much less for all those meals than on shore. We dined in Chops, Jamie's, Hooked, Izumi and Playmakers. Never had a bad meal. 

 

As for shore excursions with the ship, they are hit or miss. I loved the sunset sailing in Cabo, the lighthouse hike in Mazatlan and the Mountain Villa Retreat in Puerto Vallarta.  I don't have anything bad to say about any of them. I do have to say I've had crappy ones in other ports. 

 

I didn't think there were many kids compared to other cruises. I like having kids around (not too many though), they make me feel alive. 

 

I hope your next cruise will turn out better than this one for you. Sail On!

 

[cruiserchris2009]

39 minutes ago, livingonthebeach said:

 

I'm sorry you had a bad experience. I was on that same sailing as well and there were some positives. There were ducks - lots of ducks!!! These didn't exist back in the day. LOL 

 

...

 

I hope your next cruise will turn out better than this one for you. Sail On!

 

 

Thank you....I noticed the ducks!! 🙂 And on a positive note, it wasn't a bad experience at all. Being pampered for 7 days and being fed well puts us in the top 1%, something I'm highly appreciative of. 

[cruiserchris2009]

48 minutes ago, nimbex1970 said:

I couldn't agree more!  Oh I do miss those midnight buffets with the carvings and late-night parties on deck as well. We are researching more "upscale" cruise lines to meet what I consider dining preferences and service expectations.  If I'm paying for all specialty restaurants, I'm figuring that cost into my overall cruise, plus RCL drink package is pricey.  It's opened up some alternatives that I initially thought were out of budget. Also has opened up some new places to visit.  

 

Unless I'm bringing the grandkids, my days with RCL are numbered and that's sad. Saying that, my expectations no longer coincide with the RCL experience, so it's time to move on and it's not RCL's fault. I simply expect something they don't provide and I have to find a new line to cruise with. The best memories on RCL and I'm thankful for that. 

 

You've phrased this perfectly and with a wonderful attitude, and I think that sums it up. I'm with you, in that I loved RCL, including this cruise, but my expectations have moved on from the experience they've decided to provide. 

[cruiserchris2009]

6 hours ago, The Fun Researcher said:

...and the fact that Royal guarantees that the ship will wait for you if you are late.  That is a BIG one.

 

6 hours ago, smokeybandit said:

Because many

1) Think excursions are only available through the cruise line

2) Don't feel comfortable with booking excursions direct

3) Don't feel comfortable with or don't want the hassle of getting transportation on their own in a foreign country

 

I admittedly fell into these traps. This was our first time traveling with a 4 year old and you start feeling a whole lot more "security conscious" (for lack of a better phrase) so I ended up going with the option that was perceived to be easier/safer.

[smokeybandit]

1 minute ago, cruiserchris2009 said:

 

 

I admittedly fell into these traps. This was our first time traveling with a 4 year old and you start feeling a whole lot more "security conscious" (for lack of a better phrase) so I ended up going with the option that was perceived to be easier/safer.

We've all been there. Then we figure out how stuff works and adjust.

[cruiserchris2009]

On 12/5/2023 at 5:41 PM, Sunshine3601 said:

What beach is that resort?   Did you go to excursion desk and let them know the poor quality if this excursion?  

Hopefully they will stop selling it if enough people give them negative feedback.

 

 

 

I forgot the name of the beach. The resort was Viggio (spelling?). 

 

I didn't complain...I just rolled with it. I emailed RCL HQ as I figured they have more control over the itinerary than the excursion desk...maybe a false assumption.

[Denversail]

6 hours ago, The Fun Researcher said:

...and the fact that Royal guarantees that the ship will wait for you if you are late.  That is a BIG one.

Do they?

[The Fun Researcher]

11 minutes ago, Denversail said:

Do they?

Do you know differently?

[time4u2go]

14 minutes ago, The Fun Researcher said:

Do you know differently?

Actually they will wait up to a point. If there is an excessive delay, then they will arrange for you to join the ship at a later port at Royal's expense. 

 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/faq/questions/will-the-ship-wait-for-guests-on-a-shore-excursion#:~:text=When you book a shore,at no expense to you

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by time4u2go

[Coralc]

1 hour ago, cruiserchris2009 said:

 

I forgot the name of the beach. The resort was Viggio (spelling?). 

 

I didn't complain...I just rolled with it. I emailed RCL HQ as I figured they have more control over the itinerary than the excursion desk...maybe a false assumption.

Unfortunately, we learned that on our second cruise. If there is a problem on the ship you need to address it with the persons that have responsibility for the problem while you are on the cruise. The ship or corporate seem to have little interest in correcting things after the fact. ☺️

[Tlbecker1]

1 hour ago, time4u2go said:

Actually they will wait up to a point. If there is an excessive delay, then they will arrange for you to join the ship at a later port at Royal's expense. 

 

https://www.royalcaribbean.com/faq/questions/will-the-ship-wait-for-guests-on-a-shore-excursion#:~:text=When you book a shore,at no expense to you

 

We were 2-1/2 hours late coming back from Paris on a Royal excursion and they waited for us.