Here's The Problem - What's The Solution

[Hawkstar33]

The issues, and problems, are well spoken about here.  In a nutshell, many, many loyal cruisers are feeling the cutbacks.  More and more we see the complaining on here.  I personally book way in advance to get better prices, room choices, etc.  This often comes with non refundable deposits, of usually btwn $500-$900.  Now I see things changing online before I even get there.  I read all the complaints from those just getting off the ships.  I understand things are subject to change by the cruise line, like itinerary, but not lowering the value of what we paid for.  It's like buying, and paying for a car, and when you get it, they decided to save money and remove the steering wheel, because they could.   Like someone said in another post. Enjoy the cruises you have booked, and can't change, and look at different options for the future.  Unless someone has a better idea.

[NMTraveller]

That is the issue.  You purchase a cruise and you do not know what they are going to cut out or raise prices on.

[CaroleSS]

Not sure what the solution is, but there are a number of examples I can think of that are similar.
 

There is a fancy condo complex which was going to be built locally. The developer offered "pre-construction" sales. The construction was delayed for about a year and the developer told the buyers they would have to pay an extra 20% as their costs had gone up. Lots of buyers were upset as they said they had a signed contract. After all was said and done, the developer said, pay more or walk away.

 

I see the same thing with X. They have a product and even though you purchased it in good faith, they can change the conditions of "the contract" at any time and your choices are to go along with them or cancel something you want. Not so good for the consumer, but that is the way of the world right now! 😥

[jelayne]

Agree that it isn’t only Celebrity or cruise lines that are changing the product.  Hotels are doing the same, stayed in one 6 months ago and room was cleaned everyday.  Last month same hotel and room only cleaned every 3rd day, towels changed by request.  Breakfast included some hot items, now all “grab and go” cold items.  Neither of these changes were noted on the website when we booked or even now.  
 

 

[Salt Lifer]

The solution is very simple: any major change to pricing it service that Celebrity wants to implement (including things that would change what the 'expectation' is for a "most loyal guest" - such as the majority of drinks being fully included when you upgrade to the premium package, etc ) should be announced three plus months in advance of implementation to allow those who have not yet made their final payment an opportunity to decide if they still feel the cruise is a good value for their money. 

 

I think the anger among most of us comes from the frequent "bait and switch" that happens with no warning, leaving the "most loyal guest" to feel like they paid for a service they are not receiving.

 

This is PR 101 and would cost Celebrity very little to do, and yet time and time again they fail to do it and lose loyal customers as a result.

[Hawkstar33]

3 minutes ago, Salt Lifer said:

The solution is very simple: any major change to pricing it service that Celebrity wants to implement (including things that would change what the 'expectation' is for a "most loyal guest" - such as the majority of drinks being fully included when you upgrade to the premium package, etc ) should be announced three plus months in advance of implementation to allow those who have not yet made their final payment an opportunity to decide if they still feel the cruise is a good value for their money. 

 

I think the anger among most of us comes from the frequent "bait and switch" that happens with no warning, leaving the "most loyal guest" to feel like they paid for a service they are not receiving.

 

This is PR 101 and would cost Celebrity very little to do, and yet time and time again they fail to do it and lose loyal customers as a result.

Good idea...Funny part is the way things are going lately, they would have to be making an announcement every other day, not just 3 months in advance... LOL

[lv2cruisgrl]

All I can say is it's disappointing and sad.  We love cruising, but when you feel like you are not getting what you paid for it stinks!

We have a few cruises booked but unless things change may give it up and try other types of vacations.

 

[Hawkstar33]

3 minutes ago, lv2cruisgrl said:

All I can say is it's disappointing and sad.  We love cruising, but when you feel like you are not getting what you paid for it stinks!

We have a few cruises booked but unless things change may give it up and try other types of vacations.

 

Agree 100%.  So much for that extra bag of laundry we worked so hard to get.

[Tierun]

My solution has been MSC, and Virgin Voyages. I even sailed the new Carnival Celebration earlier this year in their Cloud 9 Spa balcony, which is equivalent to Aqua class. The experience was good and enjoyable, and it included a couple of specialty dining options which was a blessing considering the MDR low level of quality. So with X basically charging more for less, I will go where my dollar takes me farthest.

[seasoon]

1 hour ago, Hawkstar33 said:

The issues, and problems, are well spoken about here.  In a nutshell, many, many loyal cruisers are feeling the cutbacks.  More and more we see the complaining on here.  I personally book way in advance to get better prices, room choices, etc.  This often comes with non refundable deposits, of usually btwn $500-$900.  Now I see things changing online before I even get there.  I read all the complaints from those just getting off the ships.  I understand things are subject to change by the cruise line, like itinerary, but not lowering the value of what we paid for.  It's like buying, and paying for a car, and when you get it, they decided to save money and remove the steering wheel, because they could.   Like someone said in another post. Enjoy the cruises you have booked, and can't change, and look at different options for the future.  Unless someone has a better idea.

Just wondering.... would there be complaints if X ADDED to the cruise experience instead of taking away just after final payment?  This is business today I suppose and nothing is static.  BTW...there are the same type of 'complaints' on other boards so 'go somewhere else for your cruise or even land holiday' isn't really a satisfactory option.

[CruiseMrB]

The core of the problem is that anyone who cruises on an RCL brand is paying their interest expense and debt service. What happens on the ship is subservient to those line items. They have 11.50% apr debt they are trying to pay off that kept them alive in 2020, but did not give them any assets, such as as a new ship. In fact they are paying off 3 $1.5 billion dollar ships' worth of interest, without having a ship to show for it. 

 

So, in the short term, until 2025 at least, don't expect anything to change. And once we have gotten used to this level of non-service, that will become the norm. 

 

What are we to do? Several options:

• Don't cruise until 2025 and let other folks pay off the debt.
• Choose cruiselines more carefully, such as going to the luxury or ultra-luxury category. They seemd to have kept up their level of service a bit better.
• Live with it for now and know what you are getting into.

 

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by CruiseMrB

[islabahia]

We cancelled our December 2024 cruise, losing a minimal deposit.  Too many changes with no certainty that the product I originally booked will be remotely the product that is delivered.  Moved on to Oceania.

[LuckyCruiser60]

In my opinion, which isn't worth much, I think you need to step back and realize their target cruiser.  Unfortunately, it's not all of the active members on this forum.  This forum is a very small demographic of avid cruisers and the cruise lines would loose money meeting some of the expectations I read. Instead, they are focusing on a much larger pool of potential and past cruisers like me.  I will be cruising for the first time in 10 years to celebrate my 60th birthday.  On my past few cruises (always on Celebrity), we eat breakfast at the buffet, lunch by the pool, dinner in the MDR, enjoy the show and purchase the premium drink package.  We'll do the same on our upcoming cruise for a total of $3500 for my wife and I (IV room, Premium Concierge Class, WiFi, tips and premium drink package included) That represents less than $450 a day and as comparison, just the cost of our hotel room the one night prior to sailing is almost $400!  Per my standards and expectations, that's a great value.  If you're expecting or wanting more, unfortunately the solution is a different cruise line most likely costing $1,000's more.

[tschwa2]

Luckily I have 3 9+ night cruises booked for 2024 all with refundable deposits, tips included and several hundred in OBC which is no longer being offered.  All and all, while the prices are similar now, prices are $600-$800 less considering the lost perks plus non refundable.  I don't plan on booking the types of "deals" that are currently available through X.  

[asnaleah]

This is the first time in many years we do not have a Celebrity cruise booked. Onboard now, and no desire to book another. We are having a fine cruise, but we have looked elsewhere. I really don’t like being charged 2-3 dollars extra for a glass of wine that was previously covered on the premium package. I was sold “nearly” everything included, but that’s simply not the case any more. 
 

E class doesn’t interest us, seemingly we are not the sought-after demographic. We baby boomers aren’t used to that lol!

[PTC DAWG]

10 minutes ago, LuckyCruiser60 said:

In my opinion, which isn't worth much, I think you need to step back and realize their target cruiser.  Unfortunately, it's not all of the active members on this forum.  This forum is a very small demographic of avid cruisers and the cruise lines would loose money meeting some of the expectations I read. Instead, they are focusing on a much larger pool of potential and past cruisers like me.  I will be cruising for the first time in 10 years to celebrate my 60th birthday.  On my past few cruises (always on Celebrity), we eat breakfast at the buffet, lunch by the pool, dinner in the MDR, enjoy the show and purchase the premium drink package.  We'll do the same on our upcoming cruise for a total of $3500 for my wife and I (IV room, Premium Concierge Class, WiFi, tips and premium drink package included) That represents less than $450 a day and as comparison, just the cost of our hotel room the one night prior to sailing is almost $400!  Per my standards and expectations, that's a great value.  If you're expecting or wanting more, unfortunately the solution is a different cruise line most likely costing $1,000's more.

Hammer meets nail. 

[doghog]

Hopefully expressing concerns, complaints, displeasures isn't only happing here on CC.  PCS and Emailing the executive office is another resource that needs to be used. 

[CaroleSS]

@LuckyCruiser60 says cruising is a great value. You didn't mention what your cost would be for excursions, but for my example, it would help to know the "entire" cost of the vacation.
 

My example is this.....a few years ago we spent 16 days in Bali and Java. We stayed in very high end boutique hotels, hired a driver and a guide for the trip, flew from Bali to Java, ate at nice restaurants and did some incredible activities.....what was the cost for such an elaborate vacation you might ask? For the 2 of us, we paid (not including our air over and back) a sum total of $10,000. Now, that may be a bit over $450/ day for a cruise, but I will bet that our vacation was WAY more elaborate and included "excursions".

 

My point is that I can go on a vacation and talk about what a bargain I got, but go into the vacation knowing what to expect. If I pay for an upscale vacation and get a middle of the road experience (especially when I was promised upscale initially), I am likely to be a tad annoyed. Land based vacations are holding a better allure for us as we get more bang for our buck and we actually GET what was promised.

 

id like to stay loyal to X, but they certainly aren't helping me do that!

[PTC DAWG]

14 minutes ago, CaroleSS said:

@LuckyCruiser60 says cruising is a great value. You didn't mention what your cost would be for excursions, but for my example, it would help to know the "entire" cost of the vacation.
 

My example is this.....a few years ago we spent 16 days in Bali and Java. We stayed in very high end boutique hotels, hired a driver and a guide for the trip, flew from Bali to Java, ate at nice restaurants and did some incredible activities.....what was the cost for such an elaborate vacation you might ask? For the 2 of us, we paid (not including our air over and back) a sum total of $10,000. Now, that may be a bit over $450/ day for a cruise, but I will bet that our vacation was WAY more elaborate and included "excursions".

 

My point is that I can go on a vacation and talk about what a bargain I got, but go into the vacation knowing what to expect. If I pay for an upscale vacation and get a middle of the road experience (especially when I was promised upscale initially), I am likely to be a tad annoyed. Land based vacations are holding a better allure for us as we get more bang for our buck and we actually GET what was promised.

 

id like to stay loyal to X, but they certainly aren't helping me do that!

I doubt you could get those prices today…sounds like a fun trip though, no doubt. 

[paulh84]

10 minutes ago, CaroleSS said:

@LuckyCruiser60 says cruising is a great value. You didn't mention what your cost would be for excursions, but for my example, it would help to know the "entire" cost of the vacation.
 

My example is this.....a few years ago we spent 16 days in Bali and Java. We stayed in very high end boutique hotels, hired a driver and a guide for the trip, flew from Bali to Java, ate at nice restaurants and did some incredible activities.....what was the cost for such an elaborate vacation you might ask? For the 2 of us, we paid (not including our air over and back) a sum total of $10,000. Now, that may be a bit over $450/ day for a cruise, but I will bet that our vacation was WAY more elaborate and included "excursions".

 

My point is that I can go on a vacation and talk about what a bargain I got, but go into the vacation knowing what to expect. If I pay for an upscale vacation and get a middle of the road experience (especially when I was promised upscale initially), I am likely to be a tad annoyed. Land based vacations are holding a better allure for us as we get more bang for our buck and we actually GET what was promised.

 

id like to stay loyal to X, but they certainly aren't helping me do that!

 

That's a stretch. It may sound fancy and exotic but Bali can be very reasonable. We've stayed at the Ritz in Bali per-COVID during high season in a mid-level room for a cost of around $2,900 for the week. Conversely the Ritz in Fort Lauderdale (which is very mediocre for a Ritz) would cost me almost $1,700 for one night in January for the same room type. You can do a private tour to outlying areas in Bali for less than $75 USD a day.

 

Hotels and resorts are definitely not immune to changes in their product either whether it's lounges, very minimal housekeeping, astronomically high on-prem restaurant costs and so on. 

 

Squeezing out every nickel and dime while reducing services (costs) in 2023 is hardly isolated to the travel industry. 

[Baron Barracuda]

2 hours ago, CruiseMrB said:

The core of the problem is that anyone who cruises on an RCL brand is paying their interest expense and debt service. What happens on the ship is subservient to those line items. They have 11.50% apr debt they are trying to pay off that kept them alive in 2020, but did not give them any assets, such as as a new ship. In fact they are paying off 3 $1.5 billion dollar ships' worth of interest, without having a ship to show for it. 

 

So, in the short term, until 2025 at least, don't expect anything to change. And once we have gotten used to this level of non-service, that will become the norm. 

 

What are we to do? Several options:

• Don't cruise until 2025 and let other folks pay off the debt.
• Choose cruiselines more carefully, such as going to the luxury or ultra-luxury category. They seemd to have kept up their level of service a bit better.
• Live with it for now and know what you are getting into.

 

 

Since 2020 Royal and X have each added 3 new ships.  While the new vessels are presumably cash flow positive debt level would be much more manageable without them.

[Ex-Airbalancer]

There are bargains on Celebrity 

We have a 12 night basic cruise TA book cost for 2 in a balcony is $1666 CAD  $70 cad a person , a night ($1200 USD, $53 USD a night ) OBC will cover tips 

We are Elite so morning coffees are covered and a couple of evening drinks , besides that I don’t need any other alcohol, it really doesn’t bring me much  enjoyment 

Excursions, we enjoy walking the ports and visiting the local markets 

It all depends on your lifestyle and your enjoyment 

[Loracpin2]

I've posted this before and will say it again. While sailing in Europe on the Galaxy in 1997, as we were seated at dinner, the Maitre'd informed our of table of 8 that Royal Caribbean had just purchased Celebrity. As he walked away, we ALL commented "this can't be good" and little by little the Celebrity brand is no longer what it used to be.

 

Hoping our upcoming January Apex sailing won't be our last Celebrity cruise!!  

 

 

[markeb]

10 minutes ago, Loracpin2 said:

I've posted this before and will say it again. While sailing in Europe on the Galaxy in 1997, as we were seated at dinner, the Maitre'd informed our of table of 8 that Royal Caribbean had just purchased Celebrity. As he walked away, we ALL commented "this can't be good" and little by little the Celebrity brand is no longer what it used to be.

 

Hoping our upcoming January Apex sailing won't be our last Celebrity cruise!!  

 

 

 

And I'll say this again: If Royal hadn't bought them, who would have? Whether you knew they were on the market or not, they clearly were. They could have simply killed the brand instead of selling. For most of the ensuing 26 years, RCCL/RCG provided the financing and infrastructure for Celebrity. I suppose Carnival could have bought them...

[markeb]

1 hour ago, Baron Barracuda said:

Since 2020 Royal and X have each added 3 new ships.  While the new vessels are presumably cash flow positive debt level would be much more manageable without them.

 

I wonder about that. They were under contract, so the ships were probably already sunk costs long before they took delivery. The close out penalties might have been less than the final bill on the ships, but they received assets by completing construction and taking delivery and ultimately generated cash flow. It would be interesting to look at the books.