Is it better to cancel or No-Show 2nd passenger in cabin?

[billsfan3150]

We have 3 cabins reserved for 6 passengers in March.  We are past final payment.  Not trying to get any refund on cruise fare, no insurance, not a covered reason - she just can't make it anymore.  When I first called, my Oceania rep said "not a problem, I'll cancel her off the cabin".  But the next week - our online reservation info still has her listed as a passenger.   I called back and my guy was not available and spoke to someone else who said to do that (cancel passenger #2) we would have to PAY an add'l $1100 (above the final payment for both passengers) for Passenger #1 to be solo.    I said I wouldn't do that...couldn't we just "no show" passenger #2 and not pay anything extra?  Oceania rep admitted that would probably be better, but couldn't officially advise me to do that.

 

Now I can't decide whether to call back and push my original rep to cancel out #2 like he said he would or just roll the dice and just show up with the 5 passengers.  Any advice?

[sanger727]

There is no harm in a no show. Trying to cancel someone in the cabin at this point risks an extra fee. I would just have her no show.

[mauibabes]

Any chance that person now traveling alone might be able to find a person to join them? A child or sibling or …

O room stewards will split the beds into two so that is not an issue. Just make sure to cancel any excursions for the no show. 
Enjoy your cruise.

Mauibabes

[Flatbush Flyer]

Whether you cancel or “no show,” the Purser will know that one cabin is now single occupancy and the onboard account will be adjusted.

[Snaefell3]

10 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Whether you cancel or “no show,” the Purser will know that one cabin is now single occupancy and the onboard account will be adjusted.

Uhmm...  Are you sure about the extra fee?

 

I would expect a Single Occupancy surcharge if the Final Payments had not been made, but since O *has* already been paid for the empty bed...?

 

[kim ogrady]

I had this happen to me in 2021.  Oceania was great when I asked to bring someone else.  My husband was removed and my friend added.  I wasn’t charged a thing.  So find someone else to go if possible.  
 

[Flatbush Flyer]

On 12/15/2023 at 8:18 PM, Snaefell3 said:

Uhmm...  Are you sure about the extra fee?

 

I would expect a Single Occupancy surcharge if the Final Payments had not been made, but since O *has* already been paid for the empty bed...?

 

You may want to think a bit more about this!

Sure, you can look at it as “O has already been paid for the empty bed.” But, a “no show” potentially (and usually) means lost O revenue from a lack of the “no show’s” onboard purchases (e.g., booze, tours, shops, future cruises….).
Don’t you think O is smart enough to do whatever they deem is necessary to maximize their revenue (within the dictates of the ticket contract)? The “No Show’s” basic penalty is a loss of their share of the paid double occupancy fare. And any resulting single supplement fee you are charged is to cover the associated lost onboard purchase revenue.

That said, another way to look at this is that the No Show owes you the cost of your Single Supplement add-on charge.

[shepherd really]

4 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

You may want to think a bit more about this!

Sure, you can look at it as “O has already been paid for the empty bed.” But, a “no show” potentially (and usually) means lost O revenue from a lack of the “no show’s” onboard purchases (e.g., booze, tours, shops, future cruises….).
Don’t you think O is smart enough to do whatever they deem is necessary to maximize their revenue (within the dictates of the ticket contract)? The “No Show’s” basic penalty is a loss of their share of the paid double occupancy fare. And any resulting single supplement fee you are charged is to cover the associated lost onboard purchase revenue.

That said, another way to look at this is that the No Show owes you the cost of your Single Supplement add-on charge.

I thought about it. 

 

In this case the no-show already paid the full fare to O, which they are not refunding, so O is getting a 100% Single supplement for that cabin, just like it would have received if it had originally been booked as a single.  

O loses nothing on a no show that they would have gotten if the cabin had been sold as a single in the first place.

 

If they worked some theoretical "lost onboard spend" into the first scenario and were willing to sell cabins to a single for a 100% supplement, why would they suddenly need what is essentially a 200% single supplement to turn a profit?

 

You may want to think about that.

 

 

 

 

[LHT28]

11 hours ago, kim ogrady said:

I had this happen to me in 2021.  Oceania was great when I asked to bring someone else.  My husband was removed and my friend added.  I wasn’t charged a thing.  So find someone else to go if possible.  
 

You were exchanging pax  not  sailing solo in the cabin as the OP  would be doing

[LHT28]

that is nonsense about losing onboard spend

We rarely spend our own money onboard    we have enough OBC  that comes from O

 

I used to make a donation to the casino  but last cruise they only got $20

 

 

[Flatbush Flyer]

Anyone who thinks onboard spending is not a significant revenue generator knows very little about the cruise industry.

From a 2018 study by Port Economics Management (porteconomicsmanagement.com):

• Revenue. The base fare paid by the average cruiser accounts for 72% of the revenue, implying that cruise lines are able to generate an additional 28% revenue tranche with onboard services, such as gambling, excursions, drinks, and personal services. Additionally, cruisers are spending on goods and services at ports of call, which are not accounted for here.

[bradpole]

4 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

Anyone who thinks onboard spending is not a significant revenue generator knows very little about the cruise industry.

From a 2018 study by Port Economics Management (porteconomicsmanagement.com):

• Revenue. The base fare paid by the average cruiser accounts for 72% of the revenue, implying that cruise lines are able to generate an additional 28% revenue tranche with onboard services, such as gambling, excursions, drinks, and personal services. Additionally, cruisers are spending on goods and services at ports of call, which are not accounted for here.

I don't doubt Oceania makes money from onboard spend, but it has to be a much smaller percentage compared to the mainstream lines.  Sometimes there just isn't anything to spend your money on once onboard an Oceania ship compared to Carnival, Royal, Princess, etc...  

 

Specialty dining, coffee, soda, better quality pastries, ice cream, photos, more and larger gift shops, $10 watches, inch of gold, art auctions, etc...  Thinking back to my last RCL cruise there are countless tables setup on boarding day to get you spend, not to mention a table setup here and there during the cruise for impulse purchases.  

[Flatbush Flyer]

3 hours ago, shepherd really said:

I thought about it. 

 

In this case the no-show already paid the full fare to O, which they are not refunding, so O is getting a 100% Single supplement for that cabin, just like it would have received if it had originally been booked as a single.  

O loses nothing on a no show that they would have gotten if the cabin had been sold as a single in the first place.

 

If they worked some theoretical "lost onboard spend" into the first scenario and were willing to sell cabins to a single for a 100% supplement, why would they suddenly need what is essentially a 200% single supplement to turn a profit?

 

You may want to think about that.

 

 

O’s position would be that the No Show’s $ paid covered only the published Penalty for Cancellation. That’s a separate part of the equation. There still remains, at least, the “lost” fare itself which is then accounted for by charging the remaining passenger a “single supplement.”

 

AND, there still remains the estimated lost revenue from onboard spending (as identified in my post above as approximately an average 28% of cruise revenue). That single supplement IS meant to be what covers the lost revenue from onboard spending. 

In essence, how “unfair” this is perceived to be by us passengers is irrelevant. We are bound by the Ticket Contract and T&Cs. Equally irrelevant are isolated anecdotal statements regarding “We rarely spend our own money onboard.”

[Flatbush Flyer]

10 minutes ago, bradpole said:

I don't doubt Oceania makes money from onboard spend, but it has to be a much smaller percentage compared to the mainstream lines.  Sometimes there just isn't anything to spend your money on once onboard an Oceania ship compared to Carnival, Royal, Princess, etc...  

 

Specialty dining, coffee, soda, better quality pastries, ice cream, photos, more and larger gift shops, $10 watches, inch of gold, art auctions, etc...  Thinking back to my last RCL cruise there are countless tables setup on boarding day to get you spend, not to mention a table setup here and there during the cruise for impulse purchases.  

Perhaps mainstream lines have more opportunity to grab your cash. But, O passengers are not immune to onboard spending. 

 

And not everyone onboard an O ship has pockets full of SBC.

 

If you go to enough shipboard O Club events over the years, you’ll recognize that an average of about 25%+\- of passengers on each cruise are first timers and many of them booked direct with O (so no TA’s SBC). All their onboard spending is “out of pocket.”

For example, let’s not forget the cost of the Prestige Package upgrade (above the new SM  basic booze inclusion) at $30 pp/day (used to be $70 pp/day if you chose a different O Life perk) or the cost of a haircut ($40+tip even for a bald guy😳). And, of course, there’s the significant cost of ship’s excursions above and beyond the included O Life allowance or SM SBC provided. The list goes on …..

[MEFIowa]

Though NCL earns far more revenue per passenger per cruise day than either Celebrity or Royal Caribbean.:

 

 

"Carnival Corporation: In 2018, Carnival Corporation generated revenue of $211 per passenger cruise day. That's steadily risen, with the first nine months of 2023 seeing a daily rate of $239 per day.

 

Royal Caribbean Group: Royal Caribbean is one of the biggest names in cruising. It's popular Royal Caribbean International brand is the most famous, but the company also includes Celebrity and others. In 2018, the company earned revenue of $227 per passenger day, which has steadily increased. Through the first half of 2023 (the latest data available), the figure now stands at nearly $270 per passenger day.

 

Norwegian Cruise Line Holdings: Famous for its NCL and Oceania lines, the company saw revenue per passenger day of nearly $299 in 2018. That figure peaked at nearly $380 in 2022. Through the first half of 2023 (the latest data available), revenue per passenger day eased slightly to $357.

[Snaefell3]

10 minutes ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

In essence, how “unfair” this is perceived to be by us passengers is irrelevant.

In a court of law, irrelevant.

 

But, IIRC, US courts are not "courts of law", but "courts of law and equity", and I'll let any lawyers around opine on whether the fact that O's maximum single supplement is +100% of double occupancy fare and that amount has already been paid could be the basis of a suit (though probably not one they'd take on contingency 😉 )

 

 

 

 

[LHT28]

So the big question is  has anyone  had a no show or 1 person in the cabin cancelled last minute  & were you charged anything extra   with Oceania?

 The rest is  speculation  & opinions

Just the facts  please

[Snaefell3]

13 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

So the big question is  has anyone  had a no show or 1 person in the cabin cancelled last minute  & were you charged anything extra   with Oceania?

 The rest is  speculation  & opinions

Just the facts  please

Spoilsport!  😜

[EJL2023]

55 minutes ago, LHT28 said:

So the big question is  has anyone  had a no show or 1 person in the cabin cancelled last minute  & were you charged anything extra   with Oceania?

 The rest is  speculation  & opinions

Just the facts  please

😱facts only?!?!  Are you trying to shut down this board or what?? Please think of the fact challenged and embellishing posters out there. But the latter I guess is what keeps bringing us back. 

Edited December 30, 2023 by EJL2023

[shepherd really]

2 hours ago, Flatbush Flyer said:

O’s position would be that the No Show’s $ paid covered only the published Penalty for Cancellation. That’s a separate part of the equation. There still remains, at least, the “lost” fare itself which is then accounted for by charging the remaining passenger a “single supplement.”

Nonsense, but do keep defending the indefensible.  

[Flatbush Flyer]

2 minutes ago, shepherd really said:

Nonsense, but do keep defending the indefensible.  

If I was a solo cruiser, I would be just as unhappy as would be/are many others. But, industry data is data. 

 

And thus, squeezing profit from any opportunity is exactly what O is doing. So, what is “nonsense” is disputing the lost revenue motivation (numbers don’t lie) to do what is perceived by some to be unfair.

O is a business and it banks on the good results of its decisions outweighing the bad. It’s worked for them for two decades. (Haven’t you noticed that O policy/practice/promotion changes are few and far between (e.g., O Life vs SM)?

Of course, IMO, there is still one major unknown factor: FDR Jr is not FDR Sr. And I get an unverified sense that he may prefer heading in directions that establish his own identity rather than “staying the course.”. Yes, he grew up in the O family. But, O is not HIS “baby.” Needless to say, that could be beneficial/detrimental to customers/regulars or not. Time will tell.

 

[shepherd really]

But getting back to my original question:

 

Why should O charge a customer a 100% penalty in addition to the already collected fare for two people when they find it profitable to offer the exact same cabin at the single supplement fare they have already received?

 

Extra points will be awarded for not bringing extraneous issues to muddle the question.

[JRIH]

Just now, shepherd really said:

 

Extra points will be awarded for not bringing extraneous issues to muddle the question.

But that's what we do.

[Snaefell3]

19 minutes ago, shepherd really said:

Why should O charge a customer a 100% penalty in addition to the already collected fare for two people when they find it profitable to offer the exact same cabin at the single supplement fare they have already received?

MBA's answer:  More short-term profit, and nevermind folks might go elsewhere for their next.

[Fam_Cruise]

2 hours ago, LHT28 said:

So the big question is  has anyone  had a no show or 1 person in the cabin cancelled last minute  & were you charged anything extra   with Oceania?

 The rest is  speculation  & opinions

Just the facts  please

Yes, my traveling companion canceled Sep 2022 cruise on Riviera 5 days prior to departure and filed an insurance claim for a covered reason. Oceania did not charge me any additional amount and OBC and Shareholder benefit amounts that had been split between us was subsequently all included under my name and her name was removed from the reservation.

 

FYI, if you have insurance you do not want to no-show as you need evidence that you canceled, hence the invoice reflecting the removal of the person who canceled.