Assult on a cruise ship

[ldubs]

16 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

The only part of the article that is "US based" is the fact that the FBI requires reporting of certain crimes for cruises that start and end in the US.  Further, the US has claimed "extra-territorial jurisdiction" (meaning they claim jurisdiction for crimes committed on the high seas) against US citizens only, and only for a very few crimes.  Other than that, what the article says pertains to your circumstances.  As Heidi13 says, the flag state has sole jurisdiction at sea, outside territorial waters (unless a claim is made similar to the FBI for citizens of a particular country, but not many countries do this), and the Captain is the flag state's legal law enforcement agent onboard the ship.  So, as noted by others, no other police other than Italian national police would have any jurisdiction, or interest, and the laws of the UK, where you say this would constitute simple assault, do not apply, Italian law applies.

 

As noted, your only recourse is to complain to the cruise line's corporate offices, but there will be no legal recourse.  You've learned a valuable lesson that many US cruise passengers simply cannot fathom, that when you set foot on a vessel of another country, your home country's laws, rights, and protections go right overboard.

 

"You've learned a valuable lesson that many US cruise passengers simply cannot fathom, that when you set foot on a vessel of another country, your home country's laws, rights, and protections go right overboard."

 

Except it seems for the very few crimes the where the extra-territoria jusrisdiction would apply.   I'm assuming those would be serious felony crimes?

 

Either way, thanks for sharing this.  While it is probably understood deep down, it is still kind of an eye opener to many of us used to certain rights.  

 

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, CocktailPrincess said:

I was very upset by the incident and tried my best to deal with it onboard but my illness on board (which was nothing to do with the assault or the ship) made it harder for me to deal with it whilst on board.

 

I'll try to address the questions and statements posed by people in their posts now.

 

I was on Costa Fortuna

 

To the people who keep mentioning spitting is not assult- that's not what I said the drink in my face was the assault (according to UK laws) 

 

I totally understand the laws are different at sea, hence me posting in the first place to ask how to report this, obviously I feel  that I was assaulted (I can only go by the laws in my own countrty) and would like to report it to the police, if that was at all possible but I wanted to understand the process as I didn't know and couldn't find an answer via goggle.

 

In answer to what do I want? I just want to report a crime, I want the man to understand that he shouldn't act like that, it worrys me that he could or already does do a lot worse on land, if he could do that on a ship where he couldn't really hide, what could he do to a girl in a city where he can disappear! 

 

In response to wanting to know more details of the incident- here goes.

 

I was sitting with my boyfriend eating food on a high quiet deck, nearest people were 30 metres away, a man came and sat near us, he started to roll a joint, my bf said 'excuse me sir, just so you know this is a non smoking deck' the man shrugged and lit up his joint.

My bf went downstairs to find a staff member to ask him to stop. While he was gone, I told the man I was suffering with a chest infection and had come to an area where I wouldn't breathe in any smoke, so could he please go to a smoking deck. He laughed and blew smoke at me. I got up to move away from the smoke and said he was very rude, he said I was rude for eating outside and not in a restaurant (which was a weird comment as I had got the food from the poolside bar) I was leaning over to the deck below to see if my bf was returning and as I turned back I caught him spitting in my food. I called him pathetic and sarcastically laughed and said his plan didn't work as I had seen what he had done, and wouldn't be touching the food now, he shouted in his own language and then at point blank range threw his drink in my face, i inhaled it and was choking and shouting for my bf as he ran off. 

 

In response to being told I've learned a valuable lesson- well I respectfully tell you that no I haven't! That response was callous and uncalled for

 I was attacked - regardless of it was actually assult in my vessels country. 

I am 100% aware that rules/laws are different onboard, but I didn't know exactly how, hence my post which clearly asks is there any point in pursuing this. I am not as you put it a  'US cruise passengers simply cannot fathom, that when you set foot on a vessel of another country, your home country's laws, rights, and protections go right overboard'

 

Maybe  be a little more kind and less condescending to someone asking for advice, especially if that person was attacked, and when they clearly have said in their op they also know it may be possible nothing can be done.

 

 

I tried to push it higher onboard, but I had very little energy. The security when called for by the waiter told me to wait, they took 20 mins, if they had come immediately they would have caught him. I told them what happened, and asked them to speak to the nearest people as they saw what happened as witnesses security just said sorry and I should go to reception as he couldn't speak the language of the witnesses, at reception they were shocked I had been sent there and called security back to do a report. They didn't take the witness names or cabins so they were lost as I couldn't remember what they looked like. Then they took 1 day to come back to us with photos of the potential perpetrator, we had described him as white with olive /tan skin, we were shown 10 black & Asian passengers, it took them another day to show as more photos and we identified the man this time.

Then another day later and they say they have found and spoken to him. And that's it, I asked what would happen and told nothing. Even just the fact he was smoking an illegal substance I thought would have meant the ship took it seriously. But obviously not.

 

 

I understand after the comments that if I want police involved then I need to do this in Italy, My follow up question would be does anyone speak or read Italian or know if my attack would be against the law in Italy as it is in the UK?

 

 

 

OK, that is just plain head-shaking wrong.  I know folks who if experiencing this might have ended up in more trouble than the graceless knucklehead who spat and threw the drink.  I think you handled it well.   While you were told nothing of the actions taken by ship's security, that doesn't mean actions were not taken.  I would take some solace in that.   

[chengkp75]

21 minutes ago, ldubs said:

Except it seems for the very few crimes the where the extra-territoria jusrisdiction would apply.   I'm assuming those would be serious felony crimes?

Murder, kidnapping, assault.  And, as noted, it would have to  be in international waters.  If the crime happened in some other countries' territorial waters, then the US does not have any jurisdiction. 

[CocktailPrincess]

22 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

OK, that is just plain head-shaking wrong.  I know folks who if experiencing this might have ended up in more trouble than the graceless knucklehead who spat and threw the drink.  I think you handled it well.   While you were told nothing of the actions taken by ship's security, that doesn't mean actions were not taken.  I would take some solace in that.   

I asked what they were doing and I was told they would speak to him but no action was being taken .

[ldubs]

1 minute ago, CocktailPrincess said:

I asked what they were doing and I was told they would speak to him but no action was being taken .

 

I see.  Hard to think he didn't receive at least a strong reprimand.  Ejection from the ship would be appropriate in my opinion.  

[Mum2Mercury]

2 hours ago, CocktailPrincess said:

In answer to what do I want? I just want to report a crime

In all honesty, the ship doesn't want crimes reported.  They want to present an image of a completely safe ship -- but, in truth, not all passengers are going to behave politely.  

Realistically, with the cruise over, you are very unlikely to get any resolution.  Consider that any time you're out of your private cabin, you're on camera.  If ship's security wanted to find him, they would have been able to do so.  Easily.  

2 hours ago, CocktailPrincess said:

I was sitting with my boyfriend eating food on a high quiet deck, nearest people were 30 metres away, a man came and sat near us, he started to roll a joint

As in illegal drugs?  That should have interested security.  

2 hours ago, CocktailPrincess said:

He laughed and blew smoke at me.

Okay, he's rude and crazy -- and possibly on drugs.  The best option is to get away from such people -- those of us who live a reasonable life will never "win" with them because they just don't care what they do.  They feel entitled to behave as they please.  

Fair?  Not even close!  But realistic.  

2 hours ago, CocktailPrincess said:

I got up to move away from the smoke and said he was very rude

Looking back -- hindsight being what it is -- it would've been smarter just to move away without saying anything to him.  Again, don't mess with crazy people.  You just don't know what they'll do.  

2 hours ago, CocktailPrincess said:

I tried to push it higher onboard, but I had very little energy.

That's too bad, but the moment to pursue the issue has passed.  

Why didn't your boyfriend push it?  

17 minutes ago, ldubs said:

While you were told nothing of the actions taken by ship's security, that doesn't mean actions were not taken. 

That's true. 

[CocktailPrincess]

Just now, ldubs said:

 

I see.  Hard to think he didn't receive at least a strong reprimand.  Ejection from the ship would be appropriate in my opinion.  

That's what I and everyone at my dinner table expected.

 

On this website is a article '11 ways to get kicked off a cruise'. 

 

He did 2 of them, bringing on drugs and behaving in a disorderly manor.

[Mum2Mercury]

2 minutes ago, ldubs said:

I see.  Hard to think he didn't receive at least a strong reprimand.  Ejection from the ship would be appropriate in my opinion.  

Leaving him at the next port would've been completely fair.  

He's using illegal drugs and behaving terribly towards his fellow passengers. 

[CocktailPrincess]

My boyfriend is quite shy and also not good with other languages, so he did try to push it higher, but they pushed back at us harder saying they couldn't do anything.

 

Interestingly we looked for cameras and the only place on the ship that had CCTV was in the casino.

 

 

[ldubs]

1 minute ago, Mum2Mercury said:

Leaving him at the next port would've been completely fair.  

He's using illegal drugs and behaving terribly towards his fellow passengers. 

 

Well, I wasn't thinking of waiting for the next port, but I guess you do have a point.  😀

[CocktailPrincess]

Also I just remembered, I asked the ship what I needed to do if I want to involve the police, they said they don't ever involve the police but if I wanted too I would have to do it at next port of call.

 

Which after all the responses here, I now know was incorrect information

[Heidi13]

13 minutes ago, Mum2Mercury said:

Leaving him at the next port would've been completely fair.  

He's using illegal drugs and behaving terribly towards his fellow passengers. 

 

While disembarkation may seem fair, the Master needs substantive evidence and the punishment also needs to fit the crime.

 

With respect to another pax reporting somebody smoking drugs, that is insufficient evidence, as it becomes he said/she said. However, the pax report may be sufficient justification to conduct a cabin search, and if drugs were found, the Master may be able to take action, depending on type and quantity.

 

Regarding the alleged assault, enforced disembarkation is not warranted for this crime. This is generally dealt with by a warning. Had we disembarked every minor assault, on some cruises the pax count would have been rather low by the end of the cruise.

[Heidi13]

4 minutes ago, CocktailPrincess said:

Also I just remembered, I asked the ship what I needed to do if I want to involve the police, they said they don't ever involve the police but if I wanted too I would have to do it at next port of call.

 

Which after all the responses here, I now know was incorrect information

 

As I noted in a previous response, while onboard, with the lack of response you received, I would have requested a meeting with the Staff Captain. Since the ship's security response was slow and ineffective, I would have requested the names of all witnesses to the incident. You may not speak the same language, but it isn't too difficult to get your point across.

 

Moving forward, you can head over to Italy to report the crime, but be aware that you might be disappointed with the police response.

 

You can also send a letter of complaint to the Costa management, outlining the scope of the issue and the poor and incorrect responses received from the ship's crew. You may want to review the Costa Cruises list of prohibited items and if drugs are included, in addition to the assault, focus on the ship not upholding Company Policy. I suspect not bringing drugs onboard is included in the Company's SMS, so failing to investigate could be a Non-Conformity under the ISM Code. 

[Aquahound]

3 hours ago, ldubs said:

 

Except it seems for the very few crimes the where the extra-territoria jusrisdiction would apply.   I'm assuming those would be serious felony crimes?

 

 

 

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

Murder, kidnapping, assault.  And, as noted, it would have to be in international waters.  If the crime happened in some other countries' territorial waters, then the US does not have any jurisdiction. 

 

The only caveat I'll add to this is.....the U.S. SMTJ (Special Maritime & Territorial Jurisdiction) goes all the way to the baseline of the US, which basically means the shoreline.  Once inside a harbor or river, it's exclusive state jurisdiction.  

 

The U.S. has laws on the books for simple assaults in the SMTJ.  What is actually responded to the most by U.S. authorities (FBI and USCG-CGIS) is allegations of sexual assault.  

 

This doesn't help the OP much because of their nationality and ship's flag state.  However, video of the incident should exist.  A formal complaint to the cruise line for lack of action should be filed so they can look in to it further.

[CocktailPrincess]

16 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

 

The only caveat I'll add to this is.....the U.S. SMTJ (Special Maritime & Territorial Jurisdiction) goes all the way to the baseline of the US, which basically means the shoreline.  Once inside a harbor or river, it's exclusive state jurisdiction.  

 

The U.S. has laws on the books for simple assaults in the SMTJ.  What is actually responded to the most by U.S. authorities (FBI and USCG-CGIS) is allegations of sexual assault.  

 

This doesn't help the OP much because of their nationality and ship's flag state.  However, video of the incident should exist.  A formal complaint to the cruise line for lack of action should be filed so they can look in to it further.

I wish there was video, but afterwards we looked and the only cameras onboard that we could see were in the casino

[Aquahound]

3 minutes ago, CocktailPrincess said:

I wish there was video, but afterwards we looked and the only cameras onboard that we could see were in the casino

 

On a major line like Costa, I find it very unlikely that the only working cameras were in the casino.  In fact, there's no way that's true.  Nowadays, almost every square inch of public space is captured on one camera or another.  

[ilikeanswers]

8 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

On a major line like Costa, I find it very unlikely that the only working cameras were in the casino.  In fact, there's no way that's true.  Nowadays, almost every square inch of public space is captured on one camera or another.  

 

If there are cameras something must have been wrong with them because the OP was asked to ID the perpetrator from a selection of photos. The OP even said the first selection of photos were of black and Asian men when they specified it was a white man. If there was video then the staff should not have made that mistake🤷‍♀️. 

Edited December 16, 2023 by ilikeanswers

[ldubs]

2 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

 

While disembarkation may seem fair, the Master needs substantive evidence and the punishment also needs to fit the crime.

 

With respect to another pax reporting somebody smoking drugs, that is insufficient evidence, as it becomes he said/she said. However, the pax report may be sufficient justification to conduct a cabin search, and if drugs were found, the Master may be able to take action, depending on type and quantity.

 

Regarding the alleged assault, enforced disembarkation is not warranted for this crime. This is generally dealt with by a warning. Had we disembarked every minor assault, on some cruises the pax count would have been rather low by the end of the cruise.

 

The OP's account indicates there were witnesses which were not interviewed. That might have tilted the findings to more than a he said/she said.  Maybe that was followed up, we won't know.  

 

I understand and trust what you say about providing warnings for minor assaults.   This jerk lit up a doobie at a shared nonsmoking table, purposely blew smoke in someone's face, spit in someone's food, and threw a drink in their face.  I would be perfectly OK with more than a slap on the wrist.   

[ilikeanswers]

3 hours ago, Heidi13 said:

While disembarkation may seem fair, the Master needs substantive evidence and the punishment also needs to fit the crime.

 

Out of curiosity if a ship wants to disembark a passenger would they need permission from the country they want to send the passenger to? I would assume the country would want some proof that said passenger can realistically make their way home in a timely manner from their forced disembarkation point🤔? 

Edited December 16, 2023 by ilikeanswers

[CocktailPrincess]

16 minutes ago, Aquahound said:

 

On a major line like Costa, I find it very unlikely that the only working cameras were in the casino.  In fact, there's no way that's true.  Nowadays, almost every square inch of public space is captured on one camera or another.  

We looked everywhere... There really were none, except casino - none in corridors or lifts, none in public areas unless they had heavily invested in hidden cameras! Which I doubt on this 20 year old ship

[CocktailPrincess]

11 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

If there are cameras something must have been wrong with them because the OP was asked to ID the perpetrator from a selection of photos. The OP even said the first selection of photos were of black and Asian men when they specified it was a white man. If there was video then the staff should not have made that mistake🤷‍♀️. 

Exactly, they just heard what they wanted and were clearly racially profiling, it was so awkward, I kept saying he was white! So they finally stopped showing us photos and said come back tomorrow, and then they had pics of white men, I identified him on the 2nd picture

[ldubs]

6 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Out of curiosity if a ship wants to disembark a passenger would they need permission from the country they want to send the passenger to? I would assume the country would want some proof that said passenger can realistically make their way home from their forced disembarkation point🤔? 

 

Add to that how some countries might treat possession of weed.  This person seems stupid enough to keep his stash on him if he had to leave the boat.  

Edited December 16, 2023 by ldubs

[ilikeanswers]

1 minute ago, ldubs said:

Add to that how some countries might treat possession of weed.  This person seems stupid enough to keep is stash on him if he had to leave the boat.  

 

I suppose that would assume what the cruise ship crew tell the authorities is the reason for wanting to disembark the passenger. They may choose to leave out the part about the drugs and only tell them it was because of his behaviour towards other passengers. 

[ldubs]

15 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

I suppose that would assume what the cruise ship crew tell the authorities is the reason for wanting to disembark the passenger. They may choose to leave out the part about the drugs and only tell them it was because of his behaviour towards other passengers. 

 

I was thinking more in terms of they find it on his person because he wasn't smart enough to leave it behind.  

[leaveitallbehind]

42 minutes ago, ilikeanswers said:

 

Out of curiosity if a ship wants to disembark a passenger would they need permission from the country they want to send the passenger to? I would assume the country would want some proof that said passenger can realistically make their way home in a timely manner from their forced disembarkation point🤔? 

I believe @Heidi13 and @chengkp75 can confirm, but I'm not sure that is the case.  If I am incorrect I'm sure they will correct me. But we witnessed a man and his wife being escorted off the ship in St. Martin several years ago, the man in handcuffs, and being handed to the local police after what is best described as a domestic dispute that occurred the night before.  Their luggage was taken off with them and they drove off the pier in the police vehicle.  I have heard of other instances of passengers being "disembarked early" at the next port of call due to other circumstances as well.  I'm not sure the cruise line cares too much about their disposition once they are off the ship - just that they are in fact off the ship.