Rhine water levels 2024 and similar topics

[Canal archive]

Wow 50 years old is a grand old age for lock gates. Notamermaid a place to add to your visit list if you haven’t been before, also for any textile buff the Textile Museum at Bolbec we went on our Seine trip. The most superb Jacquard looms with original patterns used in the grand chateaux of France and the rest of Europe. If required they can still be used to replace fabrics. An absolutely fascinating place.

[notamermaid]

Thanks. Bolbec sounds like my kind of place. I have never actually been to the Seine river apart from Paris. Normandy I enjoyed a lot many years ago but it was just a stopover so I really need to go again.

 

Been to Derwent valley and its mills, where it all began as they say. One of the places on my list to see is the old textiles industry around Krefeld. But I will get to that again in the context of the early industrial revolution on the Meuse and Rhine.

 

Closer in topic to what people enjoy on a river cruise, the Romantic Rhine, is an anniversary that is coming up. So that may need to be written about first.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

For a bit of fun - it would be easy to just say what the anniversary is - I make this a bit of a puzzle. It starts with a river, an echo, there is the number 555 involved, something we call in German a "Lay" features prominently; and a chap who had read a story and then went to an inn where he had some wine combined it all. We are not sure if there was a girl involved. The guy may just have been inspired without a female in the vicinity and, my, did, he have the mind for it...

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

So, this guy wrote a ballad (literature not music) with the female protagonist being an enchantress. It was published as part of a novel. At that time in history other writers were happy to pick up the theme but altered it a bit. The lady changed, no longer with the magical powers as such but now she could sing. Says that famous poem...

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

Some poems lend themselves perfectly to be set to music and this one was so popular that it has provided the lyrics to more than 40 songs. One version has very much stayed in the minds of people to this day. Thousands upon thousands of river cruise tourists and day trippers have been lured into singing along to the music when the loudspeaker or the cruise director encourages them to do so. I think you can guess what the lady in the poem is called.

 

notamermaid

 

[Host Jazzbeau]

I'm guessing the quiz is about this?

 

[RDVIK2016]

1 hour ago, notamermaid said:

Some poems lend themselves perfectly to be set to music and this one was so popular that it has provided the lyrics to more than 40 songs. One version has very much stayed in the minds of people to this day. Thousands upon thousands of river cruise tourists and day trippers have been lured into singing along to the music when the loudspeaker or the cruise director encourages them to do so. I think you can guess what the lady in the poem is called.

 

notamermaid

 

Hello notamermaid,  Well I think we all know what that modern day song is on the cruise ships and I have figured out the the significance of 555. How long do we have to figure this out? 

RDVIK

[notamermaid]

Drumroll... Yes, jazzbeau. Die Loreley!  Thank you for the link to this song by Liszt. I had not listened to this version before now. Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau is a legend.

 

So let us start with the background to my last three posts.

 

On the Rhine there is the so-called Rhine Gorge, arguably the most Romantic landscape along the river. A narrow passage with relatively high rocks along the banks and a meandering river make for a dramatic landscape. First bit: There were stories of a lady that was a sorceress. Second bit: The locals talked of a triple echo among the narrow hills with a particularly difficult passage at one rock. At the end of the 18th century Clemens Brentano, grandson of the writer Sophie von La Roche (the lady held the first ever (intellectual and literature) salon in the Middle Rhine valley), heard both things. He was born at his grandmother's place in Ehrenbreitstein opposite Koblenz. He apparently inherited her talent for writing and was interested in the legends on the Rhine. He created the Lore-Lay and published the ballad about the lady, set in Bacharach in the Rhine Gorge, in one of his early novels. He was part of a group of early Romanticism in Jena! He is known to have been to inns in the valley drinking wine but the story was written by the young man far away in another part of Germany.

 

The idea of such a lady that cannot help but enchant everyone was picked up by Heinrich Heine. His female protagonist slightly morphed in his poem into a lady sitting on the rock enchanting the skippers with her singing and distracting them during the difficult passage around the rock.

 

So the legend is actually not old but created by a writer and published in 1801, then turned into a poem which was in turn published in 1824. That's right - 200 years ago almost to the day. Heine writes "... a fairy-tale from very olden times..." but refers to a ballad that was merely 23 years old.

 

To be continued...

 

notamermaid

 

 

[notamermaid]

1 minute ago, RDVIK2016 said:

Hello notamermaid,  Well I think we all know what that modern day song is on the cruise ships and I have figured out the the significance of 555. How long do we have to figure this out? 

RDVIK

A classic case of simultaneous posting.

 

Just had not referred to the 555 yet. Would you like to tell us?

 

notamermaid

 

[RDVIK2016]

1 hour ago, notamermaid said:

A classic case of simultaneous posting.

 

Just had not referred to the 555 yet. Would you like to tell us?

 

notamermaid

 

OK,

It is the Kilometer mark on the Rhein for the Loreley.

[RDVIK2016]

1 hour ago, notamermaid said:

Drumroll... Yes, jazzbeau. Die Loreley!  Thank you for the link to this song by Liszt. I had not listened to this version before now. Dietrich Fischer-Dieskau is a legend.

 

So let us start with the background to my last three posts.

 

On the Rhine there is the so-called Rhine Gorge, arguably the most Romantic landscape along the river. A narrow passage with relatively high rocks along the banks and a meandering river make for a dramatic landscape. First bit: There were stories of a lady that was a sorceress. Second bit: The locals talked of a triple echo among the narrow hills with a particularly difficult passage at one rock. At the end of the 18th century Clemens Brentano, grandson of the writer Sophie von La Roche (the lady held the first ever (intellectual and literature) salon in the Middle Rhine valley), heard both things. He was born at his grandmother's place in Ehrenbreitstein opposite Koblenz. He apparently inherited her talent for writing and was interested in the legends on the Rhine. He created the Lore-Lay and published the ballad about the lady, set in Bacharach in the Rhine Gorge, in one of his early novels. He was part of a group of early Romanticism in Jena! He is known to have been to inns in the valley drinking wine but the story was written by the young man far away in another part of Germany.

 

The idea of such a lady that cannot help but enchant everyone was picked up by Heinrich Heine. His female protagonist slightly morphed in his poem into a lady sitting on the rock enchanting the skippers with her singing and distracting them during the difficult passage around the rock.

 

So the legend is actually not old but created by a writer and published in 1801, then turned into a poem which was in turn published in 1824. That's right - 200 years ago almost to the day. Heine writes "... a fairy-tale from very olden times..." but refers to a ballad that was merely 23 years old.

 

To be continued...

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

notamermaid and Jazzbeau,

I went off in several directions in my efforts to answer the riddle.

 

Actually the first thing I did was to google "20. März in der deutschen Geschicte".  Turns out Friedrich Hölderlin was born on this date in 1770. Having learned that I chased for any connection he might have with the Loreley. The fact that he wrote a poem titled "Der Rhein" had be down in that rabbit hole for a while reading that poem. However that was dead end.

 

You gave us a really easy clue to know that you were talking about the Loreley song played on all the cruise ships has we sail by Kilometer 555. Also, I knew that Heinrich Heine wrote words for the popular poem which was set to music by Philipp Friedrich Silcher, but so many other composers created music named Loreley/Lorelei. A melody by Silcher seems to have had influence on part of Schubert's Unfinished Symphony.  So I am looking Schubert's works (so many) and see a catalogue number "D.555".  Aha I sez to myself. I found something! Well I hadn't. That Song Sketch D.555 sounds familiar, but is not the Loreley song we know. (Schubert's does have a Loreley - S.532).  

 

I already knew that Heine's poem had another source. So I looked at that and found, as you then told us, it was Clemens Brentano who wrote "Lore Lay" as part of a novel. Now I know that is as far I as I had to go, but as you had written "something we call in German a "Lay"" I was not sure if the title of Brentano's poem was the end of the road. So I started looking for a connection with a Heldenlied - a "heroic lay" - from the early Middle Ages. I was stuck there when I had to run an errand and asked how much time we had. You had written your answer by the time I got back. Is there a Heldenlied connection? 

 

As you said it was for a bit of fun! Thank you. 

RDVIK

 

 

[notamermaid]

Wow, what a journey! Thanks for going so deep with this.

6 minutes ago, RDVIK2016 said:

So I started looking for a connection with a Heldenlied - a "heroic lay" - from the early Middle Ages. I was stuck there when I had to run an errand and asked how much time we had. You had written your answer by the time I got back. Is there a Heldenlied connection?

I do not think so. My hint was "Lay" in German, that word means "rock", often sheer rock face, it can be slate but does not have to be. You find this in the area a lot, also as "Ley". Here it is the Lore-Lay. Brentano added the female name Lore as it sounds like the "lure" word used in connection with the sounds at the rocks (the water and/or the echo).

 

555 is indeed the "code" for the Lorelei, the Rhine kilometer where it is located:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Rheinkilometer_Loreley.JPG

 

You are right, the music to the poem that everyone sings is the version by Silcher.

 

notamermaid

 

[RDVIK2016]

36 minutes ago, notamermaid said:

Wow, what a journey! Thanks for going so deep with this.

I do not think so. My hint was "Lay" in German, that word means "rock", often sheer rock face, it can be slate but does not have to be. You find this in the area a lot, also as "Ley". Here it is the Lore-Lay. Brentano added the female name Lore as it sounds like the "lure" word used in connection with the sounds at the rocks (the water and/or the echo).

 

555 is indeed the "code" for the Lorelei, the Rhine kilometer where it is located:

https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Rheinkilometer_Loreley.JPG

 

You are right, the music to the poem that everyone sings is the version by Silcher.

 

notamermaid

 

That word "Lay", or "Ley" as Wikipedia says is new to me https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ley

The English word "lay" that threw onto the trail of Heldenlieder has just this one uncommon usage:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heroic_lay

RDVIK

[Host Jazzbeau]

Given her penchant for luring sailors to their death on the rocks, perhaps the Rhine km marker should be amended to 666...

[Canal archive]

Now when 555 was first mentioned 666 was my first thought then I got lost in the music realm, not really ‘in tune’ with that period of music but recognised the expression as to poetry and for example it was a Ley that Blondel is supposed to have sung outside the walls of Durnstein Castle because silly me all troubadours sung a Lay! But still the Lorelie at mile marker 555 spooky.

[notamermaid]

7 hours ago, Canal archive said:

But still the Lorelie at mile marker 555 spooky.

Yeah, I do agree. Kind of a magical, spooky number.

 

About Lay. The word is not really used in German here in the area anymore as such, everyone just says  "Fels". So the Lorelei rock is a Fels. Lay/Ley survives in the names for the rocks, like @RDVIK2016 linked to, and as a village now part of Koblenz, simply called Lay.

 

I quite like the idea of connecting it with a lay as in troubadour song, not a far fetched thought with that ballad and the Silcher version. It sounds kind of old. It did actually happen that not too long after Heine published the poem people had forgotten that it was an invented story rather than an old tale. Something we call a "Kunstmärchen", that is a fairy-tale that has not been handed down by narrating it, but has been made up, by a known author. In this case Clemens Brentano.

 

By the way, over in the Danube is Lorelei's sister called Isa. Poor Lorelei sits on top a windy exposed rock, Isa tends to swim about a bit more, but she has a rock too. Right in the river itself and she can retreat to a palace that is somewhere down there. I am sure the cruise director or guides tell passengers about this when passing Jochenstein in Bavaria.

 

But back to our siren and the music in another post. We still need to talk about the actual anniversary celebrations.

 

notamermaid

 

 

[Canal archive]

Now we’re really getting into the other world especially about the ‘fey’. The fairy like and you know what they say about fairies at the bottom of the garden near especially the river!

[notamermaid]

3 hours ago, Canal archive said:

fairies at the bottom of the garden near especially the river!

I do not think I know this. Is there something special about them?

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

[Canal archive]

All fairies are special but water fairies even more so.

[Host Jazzbeau]

All I know about fairies I learned from Bea Lillie!

 

 

[notamermaid]

1 hour ago, Canal archive said:

All fairies are special but water fairies even more so.

I see. It reminds me: the Celts had this special relationship with water and the land that was almost water so to speak. I cannot remember where I read that.  It may sound a bit far fetched as the Rhine is regarded as Germanic in the Middle Rhine valley but the Celts were direct neighbours of Germanic tribes. Basically, you found the Celts in Alsace and near Mainz towards the hills in what is now Rhine-Hesse and further along on the left bank, another people a bit on the right bank as well. And the Treveri were a big tribe, lending the settlement that is now Trier its name. But some of these peoples were either close to the Germanic tribes or were indeed a mix of Celtic and Germanic.

 

Apparently, the idea or the theme or what you may call it of such a nymph or mythological creature is a very old one and can be found in variations that span cultures and centuries.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

The Lorelei, as we have seen, was originally a ballad, what we know best these days is the poem that was created from it. Heinrich Heine had it published for the first time on 26 March 1824. If you happen to be sailing past the rock this coming 26th it will be a kind of special day not just for the sight but also the fact that 200 years ago a tradition was started... Well, the words were there. The music by Silcher came in 1837. I keep spelling it Lorelei the English way, the German is actually Loreley.

 

About the eerie thing and the echo - which takes us back to where the word came from for a moment, Echo was a mountain nymph: while most of the treacherous riff is gone and modern man has very much eased the passage through the Rhine Gorge in the last 100 years, supposedly reducing the water gurgling and echo effect, the narrow bends will always be a problem and a challenge in comparison to other parts of the river, the Rhine is at the rock both shallow and very deep. There is a ravine that goes down deep. The width of the river is only 113m but the depth is up to 25m.

 

notamermaid

 

[notamermaid]

It is a cold day today, rain and cold wind dominate this weekend, not a fun day to be on exposed plateaus or on the sun deck of a river cruise ship.

 

To Heinrich Heine's poem. Such an important event in German culture just needs to be celebrated. 😊 On 26 March, St. Goar is staging a concert in town. In the Rheinfesthalle concert venue from 6pm, 15 different songs set to the lyrics of Heine will be performed. A new sheet music collection of songs will be published as well, some of these versions are published for the first time. Here is the German info: https://www.swr.de/swraktuell/rheinland-pfalz/koblenz/200-jahre-loreley-gedicht-lorerlei-lied-heinrich-heine-grosse-feier-am-mittelrhein-100.html

 

Basically, it is just a rock towering 132m over the river but there are these places that if you are so inclined have something special and in the right circumstances become so much more. Here it is a distinctive rock face, special river conditions, creative people, the right time in history and enough people to keep the allure (pun intended) going.

 

By the way, music: the Lorelei plateau has an open air stage that regularly sees music performances. I have been up there for a rock concert. Comments about sirens and wailing, etc. are welcome. 😉

 

notamermaid

 

 

[notamermaid]

We can now look with some confidence into April as regards river levels. The forecast suggests good figures around and a bit above the mean in the Upper Rhine valley till the end of the month so the beginning of April will most likely look pleasant. Likewise, Kaub in the Middle Rhine valley is at a comfortable level and will most likely stay pleasantly above 200cm till the end of the month and suggest very favourable conditions into April.

 

notamermaid

 

 

 

[notamermaid]

I just cannot resist - Happy Anniversary! It is a rock, an excursion boat, a ferry, a hotel, an asteroid, a rock band, a character in an American comedy! And the reason is this poem. A recital in German with English translation in text. I like it a bit dark and gloomy, so no Silcher music today:

 

notamermaid