American Queen Ceases Operations

[ericosmith]

Of course if you're just interested in the former Great Lakes vessels you don't even need to worry about the auction.  Both of them are on sale right now with the price reduced to a paltry $14,995,000.  

https://www.yachtworld.com/boats-for-sale/type-power/class-power-cruise-ship/

 

 

[steamboats]

Sold to American Cruise Lines

 

https://cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/2024/04/american-cruise-lines-purchases-american-queen-river-fleet/

 

American Queen, American Countess, American Dutchess and American Empress.

 

No buyer disclosed for the Former Cape boats.

 

steamboats 

[Host Jazzbeau]

1 hour ago, steamboats said:

Sold to American Cruise Lines

 

https://cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/2024/04/american-cruise-lines-purchases-american-queen-river-fleet/

 

American Queen, American Countess, American Dutchess and American Empress.

 

No buyer disclosed for the Former Cape boats.

 

steamboats 

Now we'll learn whether they bought them to operate them, or to make sure nobody else does...  [or a little of each depending on the ship]

[ericosmith]

Some more info.

https://maritime-executive.com/article/american-queen-paddlewheelers-sold-to-american-cruise-lines

Looks like they didn't think the Duchess was worth much more than scrap.  It also appears that they must have purchased all of our past customer information.

[Host Jazzbeau]

I was wondering why they paid so little for the Duchess, compared to the other ex-casino ship Countess.  Duchess is 341 ft long but only holds 166 passengers; she has a steam-powered stern paddle wheel.  Countess [same age, similar history] is 318 ft long but holds 245 passengers; she has a paddlewheel and diesel electric Z-drive.  So I'm guessing that Duchess is uneconomical because of the low passenger to size ratio and the 'true' paddlewheel propulsion?  [Hopefully somebody who knows better will either confirm or correct me...]

[ericosmith]

While the Duchess is the only one of the boats I haven't been on it never really appealed to me.  It's been described as a floating convention hotel by some.  Before the Countess it was the more inclusive of it vs. the Queen on the Mississippi and commanded a higher price. Once drinks became included on all the boats I think it lost it's appeal vs. the Queen and the Countess.  

[steamboats]

4 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

she has a steam-powered stern paddle wheel.  

 

Nope, the American Queen has a steam engine which propels the paddlewheel. The Duchess also a old casino boat with diesel engines.

 

steamboats

[DaveinCharlotte]

11 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

Duchess is 341 ft long but only holds 166 passengers; she has a steam-powered stern paddle wheel.  Countess [same age, similar history] is 318 ft long but holds 245 passengers; she has a paddlewheel and diesel electric Z-drive.

Yes, the Countess has a diesel-powered paddlewheel and 3 diesel-electric Z-drives, but I'm pretty sure the Duchess does too.  I think somebody in an earlier post (TinCan?) said as much, and I can see from our photos that the paddlewheel setups look the same.

 

I can't see how small passenger size would figure in here, since virtually ALL of the ACL ships -- current and future -- are in this same range.

 

Countess and Duchess looks very much the same inside as well as out, so I remain at a loss as to why the Duchess price was so low.  I'm thinking there was something wrong with it that ACL thought would be too expensive to repair. 

[chengkp75]

Considering that ACL's new riverboats run about $40 million each, these were obtained at fire sale prices, and that they feel they will need massive investments to operate them to their standards.

[Globalfish]

Ocean Voyager and Ocean Navigator rescued from the scrap heap?
 

https://www.travelweekly.com/River-Cruising/American-Queen-Great-Lakes-cruise-ships-sold-at-auction

[Host Jazzbeau]

On 4/3/2024 at 11:28 AM, Globalfish said:

Ocean Voyager and Ocean Navigator rescued from the scrap heap?
 

https://www.travelweekly.com/River-Cruising/American-Queen-Great-Lakes-cruise-ships-sold-at-auction

He got them cheap enough (under $1 million each – a lot better than the $15 million broker listing!)  But without the customer list he'll have to start over from scratch.

 

[edited to add:] Update on SeaTrade says:  "an attorney for AQV parent the Hornblower Group said that because the river and lakes (coastal) vessels were part of an integrated business, certain materials were held jointly, and an adjustment of $300,000 was agreed."  So the buyer of the Great Lakes ships will get the customer info.

https://www.seatrade-cruise.com/finance-legal-regulatory/19m-winning-bid-aqv-coastals-court-oks-6m-sale-river-vessels

[Host Jazzbeau]

As to the specs of American Duchess, I was led astray by the articles on wikipedia (or by my reading of them...):

American Duchess: 

Propulsion

Steam powered stern paddle wheel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Duchess

 

American Countess:

Propulsion

Paddlewheel and Z-drive (diesel electric)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Countess#cite_note-1

[3rdGenCunarder]

1 hour ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

He got them cheap enough (under $1 million each – a lot better than the $15 million broker listing!)  But without the customer list he'll have to start over from scratch.

 

I really liked the Voyager and my cruise went off without a hitch. I was lucky in that respect. Those two ships had some big troubles last season, and I suspect he's going to have to put a lot of work into the mechanical side of things. 

[njhoo]

It will be interesting to see the intentions of ACL in the deployment of these four acquired vessels.  My immediate reaction is focused on the Pacific Northwest Columbia River cruises.  Will that market support two vessels, certainly different styles, floor plans, etc.?  As to the Mississippi and connecting rivers, will it be to ACLs advantage to reduce competition ie. passengers, therefore adjust prices accordingly?  Nice to sit back and consider the possibilities.  Happy cruising CC friends.  

[Host Jazzbeau]

If ACL was considering expanding on either river, this is a cheap way to do it.  But I doubt they will activate all four ships.

[Host Jazzbeau]

The final (I think) piece of the puzzle was announced yesterday:  

Ocean Victory has a new long-term summer Med charter

[Globalfish]

1 hour ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

The final (I think) piece of the puzzle was announced yesterday:  

Ocean Victory has a new long-term summer Med charter

The charterer isn’t mentioned, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it is US educational study program provider Road Scholar which used the same ship in Alaska with AQV.

Edited April 3 by Globalfish

[Host Jazzbeau]

This would be a big step up for Road Scholar, as their previous Mediterranean ship was an old rust bucket (forget the name).

[Globalfish]

14 minutes ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

This would be a big step up for Road Scholar, as their previous Mediterranean ship was an old rust bucket (forget the name).

Aegean Odyssey.  $&#*!

Edited April 3 by Globalfish

[3rdGenCunarder]

2 hours ago, Globalfish said:

The charterer isn’t mentioned, but I wouldn’t be surprised if it is US educational study program provider Road Scholar which used the same ship in Alaska with AQV.

 

You're probably right. Road Scholar had groups on the AQV Great Lakes ships, too.

[Globalfish]

13 minutes ago, 3rdGenCunarder said:

 

Road Scholar had groups on the AQV Great Lakes ships, too.

Yes, if the Ocean Voyager and Ocean Navigator purchase goes through and the vessels are appropriately brought up to “ship shape” to ply the Great Lakes once again, Road Scholar is likely to be one of John Waggoner’s first customers.

Edited April 4 by Globalfish

[ericosmith]

The Empress originally came from Alaska. It will be interesting to see if it goes back there. 

[steamboats]

11 hours ago, Host Jazzbeau said:

As to the specs of American Duchess, I was led astray by the articles on wikipedia (or by my reading of them...):

American Duchess: 

Propulsion

Steam powered stern paddle wheel

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Duchess

 

No, you´re not reading it wrong. But it proves that not everything on Wikipedia is correct. The Isle of Capri casino boat never had a steam engine. And the Duchess never got one built in. This would take a lot amount of space for the boilers plus the steam engine. And you need more staff to operate it. Plus you either have to find a historic steam engine or build one new (and I don´t know of anyone who is able to do this).

 

2 hours ago, ericosmith said:

The Empress originally came from Alaska. It will be interesting to see if it goes back there. 

 

As Empress of the North she did both - Alaska and the Columbia river system. I´ve been on when she was in Alaska.

 

steamboats

[DaveinCharlotte]

15 hours ago, njhoo said:

My immediate reaction is focused on the Pacific Northwest Columbia River cruises.  Will that market support two vessels, certainly different styles, floor plans, etc.?  

I tend to doubt it.  ACL already has five -- count 'm five -- ships operating there, two of which are paddlewheelers.  Those (Pride, West) however are kind of long in the tooth, so maybe ACL would be keen to replace them/

[Globalfish]

9 hours ago, ericosmith said:

The Empress originally came from Alaska. It will be interesting to see if it goes back there. 

I’d like to see it return to Alaska.  For prospective repeat Alaskan cruisers, ACL could use a more innovative Alaskan cruise itinerary in addition to their wonderful Alaskan Explorer cruise that I took last summer (or the longer and shorter versions of it that they offer).  I’m thinking along the lines of Metlakatla, Misty Fjords, Kake, Endicott Arm, Dawes Glacier, Elfin Cove.  In other words, something similar to Ponant’s July 2024 9-day Inside Passage itinerary, albeit hopefully cheaper.  ACL, if you are reading this, hint, hint.  Would do it in a heartbeat!