Changes to Carnival Loyalty Program

[aborgman]

2 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Of course they are making money off of all cruisers, silly to suggest differently.

 

Oh, I pretty much guarantee they aren't making money off all cruisers.

 

I just ran a test booking - with 5 in a cabin and one of the 5 being under 2 years (no gratuities).

 

Total cost for the under 2 year old? $109 for a 4 day cruise. They're losing money on that 2 year old and making it back on the parents.

 

 

They're probably at least breaking even on every room - but I'm willing to bet there are occasional cases where even that isn't true (last minute occupancy fills).

[mz-s]

16 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

Oh, I pretty much guarantee they aren't making money off all cruisers.

 

I just ran a test booking - with 5 in a cabin and one of the 5 being under 2 years (no gratuities).

 

Total cost for the under 2 year old? $109 for a 4 day cruise. They're losing money on that 2 year old and making it back on the parents.

 

 

They're probably at least breaking even on every room - but I'm willing to bet there are occasional cases where even that isn't true (last minute occupancy fills).

 

How are they losing money on that 2 year old?

[jimbo5544]

16 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

Oh, I pretty much guarantee they aren't making money off all cruisers.

 

I just ran a test booking - with 5 in a cabin and one of the 5 being under 2 years (no gratuities).

 

Total cost for the under 2 year old? $109 for a 4 day cruise. They're losing money on that 2 year old and making it back on the parents.

 

 

They're probably at least breaking even on every room - but I'm willing to bet there are occasional cases where even that isn't true (last minute occupancy fills).

We can disagree.  

[aborgman]

4 minutes ago, mz-s said:

 

How are they losing money on that 2 year old?

 

The incremental costs (fuel, cleanup, food, etc.) exceed the $28 a day being paid.

 

They're making more off the parents than they'd lose with the kid - so it's a net win (they make money on the room)... but that doesn't mean they are turning a profit on every passenger.

 

 

[aborgman]

8 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

We can disagree.  

 

It's pretty hard to argue they profit off every passenger.

 

I guarantee there are occasional free room casino folks who get sick/injured on the boat and don't gamble at all on that cruise also.

 

 

[Saint Greg]

1 hour ago, ninjacat123 said:

I hope Carnival won't take away Platinum status from my DDs.  They just got it last cruise.

 

I have everything planned out so I get diamond on a particular cruise next year. There's no doubt they're going to screw me over.

[dallasdan]

27 minutes ago, Saint Greg said:

 

I have everything planned out so I get diamond on a particular cruise next year. There's no doubt they're going to screw me over.

They have been screwing you over for years as a single passenger.  I know rooms are double occupancy but you would think they would offer you some kind of single supplement or give you double points since you pay for 2.  I am only at 125 days so I have a ways to go for Diamond.

[firefly333]

4 minutes ago, dallasdan said:

They have been screwing you over for years as a single passenger.  I know rooms are double occupancy but you would think they would offer you some kind of single supplement or give you double points since you pay for 2.  I am only at 125 days so I have a ways to go for Diamond.

I'd like a solo discount or some perk. A extra loyalty pt or anything. I didnt use my free steak dinner, but I received the letter. Hopefully it carrys over to the next cruise.

Edited March 22 by firefly333

[JMAE]

2 hours ago, ninjacat123 said:

I hope Carnival won't take away Platinum status from my DDs.  They just got it last cruise.

I would assume they do it like last time and you keep the status you achieved prior to the transition.  My guess benefit changes are coming and an additional level or two.  I hope some changes include benefits like free or discounted internet based on your level, etc.  

[Pyxie]

3 hours ago, jsglow said:

I'm going to guess that won't be the case. The problem Carnival currently has is that far too many cruisers have achieved Platinum, for example, meaning that far too often things like priority embarkation/tenders needs to be eliminated. When ALL have priority, none do. I do think folks will be given the 'opportunity' to be grandfathered.

 

'If you haven't sailed with us in 5 years you still have a chance in the next year to retain your VIFP status' kind of thing.

 

I agree, but I do think anyone currently at Platinum will likely retain the "title" and the card, but may not be grandfathered in with all the benefits depending on where they stand with the new system.

[jimbo5544]

2 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

It's pretty hard to argue they profit off every passenger.

 

I guarantee there are occasional free room casino folks who get sick/injured on the boat and don't gamble at all on that cruise also.

 

 

I will move on after this post.  There is no such thing as a free casino room.  I did not say anything about 3rd and 4th under 2 in a room.  I said that all rooms are profitable.  If in semantics there are a couple where it was totally comped, that is an offset.  All rooms sold are profitable.  Again, we can disagree, which is fine.

[TrqoisWtrs]

3 hours ago, firefly333 said:

I'd like a solo discount or some perk. A extra loyalty pt or anything. I didnt use my free steak dinner, but I received the letter. Hopefully it carrys over to the next cruise.

Right?  I've said that for years.  I'm easy - even just a few bottles of wine at dinner would be fine, just something to acknowledge us solos.  And yes, you can hold your Diamond dinner - I waited until I was going on Celebration to use it at Rudi's, which they added for the excel ships.

[171510Cook]

7 hours ago, starstruck05 said:

John Heald, Carnival's Brand Ambassador, has stated that the new program should be rolled out by the end of the year but he's not able to give details as to what the new program is. It's been in the works for a while. I suspect an announcement maybe in the fall.

 

I turn Platinum Jan 5 2025.... I hope I get a chance to enjoy the free laundry before it changes

[anastasia3939]

Well, as a measly gold level cruiser, I hope they don't touch my (whoop-dee-doo!) free bottle of water!!

[JMAE]

5 hours ago, aborgman said:

 

Total cost for the under 2 year old? $109 for a 4 day cruise. They're losing money on that 2 year old and making it back on the parents.

Guest capacity is based on two in a stateroom, which cover the operational costs (land/sea) and produces profits for each ship, taking into account fare and onboard spending.  A ship at 100% capacity should run a profit between 15 - 20%.  Cruise lines like to run a >100 capacity, which means they have additional guests in a stateroom.  I believe CCL reached 101% capacity late last year line wide.   Any guests over the first two in a stateroom add little expense to CCL, other than maybe the food.  Since the ship is still sailing, the room stewards still have to same number of staterooms to maintain, etc.  As % go, I believe CCL makes more profits on the additional individuals in the stateroom than you think.  

[MaryZ]

I can't see onboard spending counting towards any loyalty level.
People who don't gamble can't even come close to spending what gamblers spend. 

You certainly don't want Carnival to start consider spending as part of your loyalty status.

 

[Colorado Beach Bum]

7 hours ago, Elaine5715 said:

Nongambling people would lose their minds when gamblers spending $20K a cruise lapped them in status.  

And gamblers wouldn’t like it if it was based only on cruise fair paid - and carnival would never do anything to alienate their gamblers.

 

i like the idea of having to have recent cruises to keep status. Maybe you can have a legacy status with lifetime cruises but if you have multiple cruises in a year you get a plus after your tier - like Diamond Plus, or Platinum Plus and Diamond, Platinum are still there.  The Plus cruisers maybe get additional perks that they can’t give to all. 

[Joebucks]

9 hours ago, MaryZ said:

I can't see onboard spending counting towards any loyalty level.
People who don't gamble can't even come close to spending what gamblers spend. 

You certainly don't want Carnival to start consider spending as part of your loyalty status.

 

 

It would be interesting if they do count onboard spend. Today, most gamblers "only gamble like $200 total" and get free cruises and drinks. I bet the algorithm will be off again where all of these people will hold the top-tier titanium diamond++. 

[mz-s]

9 hours ago, Colorado Beach Bum said:

And gamblers wouldn’t like it if it was based only on cruise fair paid - and carnival would never do anything to alienate their gamblers.

 

i like the idea of having to have recent cruises to keep status. Maybe you can have a legacy status with lifetime cruises but if you have multiple cruises in a year you get a plus after your tier - like Diamond Plus, or Platinum Plus and Diamond, Platinum are still there.  The Plus cruisers maybe get additional perks that they can’t give to all. 

 

Carnival's whole house of cards is propped up by their casinos. They know that and they won't do anything to send those guests elsewhere.

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, Joebucks said:

 

It would be interesting if they do count onboard spend. Today, most gamblers "only gamble like $200 total" and get free cruises and drinks. I bet the algorithm will be off again where all of these people will hold the top-tier titanium diamond++. 

I would love to see the data behind gambling.  Find it really hard to believe that 200 would entice anybody.  while not a gambler, I can safely tell you that some we travel with regularly do WAY more than that and most always get nothing.  

Edited March 23 by jimbo5544

[jimbo5544]

I would be shocked if CCL would touch anything with elite or ultra, no reason to and makes no sense.  That said a change is coming, way overdo and totally needed to put some reality into the program.  

[jimbo5544]

10 hours ago, Colorado Beach Bum said:

And gamblers wouldn’t like it if it was based only on cruise fair paid - and carnival would never do anything to alienate their gamblers.

 

i like the idea of having to have recent cruises to keep status. Maybe you can have a legacy status with lifetime cruises but if you have multiple cruises in a year you get a plus after your tier - like Diamond Plus, or Platinum Plus and Diamond, Platinum are still there.  The Plus cruisers maybe get additional perks that they can’t give to all. 

Adding multiple levels (doubling the levels with a plus as example) confuses the heck out of everything. IMHO either raise the bar or put qualifiers as you suggest on keeping current are best options (nobody asked me).  Changing the methodology (from days cruised, to dollars spent, to type of cabin, to cross other cruise lines, etc etc) has been looked at many times.  Did not happen then and I doubt will happen now.

[tidecat]

11 hours ago, MaryZ said:

I can't see onboard spending counting towards any loyalty level.
People who don't gamble can't even come close to spending what gamblers spend. 

You certainly don't want Carnival to start consider spending as part of your loyalty status.

 

FWIW, sister line Holland America does take into account onboard spend:

 

https://www.hollandamerica.com/en/us/plan-a-cruise/get-ready-for-your-cruise/mariner-society

 

So in the case of HAL, someone who drops $15,000 in the casino would get 50 credits. There's also nothing that would prevent casino spending from being excluded if Carnival wanted to adopt something similar.

[aborgman]

15 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

I said that all rooms are profitable.

 

20 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

Of course they are making money off of all cruisers, silly to suggest differently.

 

I very specifically said they almost always make money off each room, but not each cruiser.

 

...and you disagreed with me.

[aborgman]

12 hours ago, JMAE said:

Guest capacity is based on two in a stateroom, which cover the operational costs (land/sea) and produces profits for each ship, taking into account fare and onboard spending.  A ship at 100% capacity should run a profit between 15 - 20%.  Cruise lines like to run a >100 capacity, which means they have additional guests in a stateroom.  I believe CCL reached 101% capacity late last year line wide.   Any guests over the first two in a stateroom add little expense to CCL, other than maybe the food.  Since the ship is still sailing, the room stewards still have to same number of staterooms to maintain, etc.  As % go, I believe CCL makes more profits on the additional individuals in the stateroom than you think.  

 

I think they generally turn a profit on additional individuals. Probably 99% of the time.

 

...but NOT every time.