WHY, not what, happened to HAL??

[TRLD]

19 minutes ago, Copper10-8 said:

 

 

Try a fast food joint for their latest uptick in pricing! 🤪 That is to say, at least here in Cali

And more self service.

[Mary229]

3 minutes ago, TRLD said:

And more self service.

Yeah, at $20 an hour you may have to go in the back and flip your own burger 😂

[TRLD]

5 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

Yeah, at $20 an hour you may have to go in the back and flip your own burger 😂

Atleast take your own order.

[sciencewonk]

On 4/9/2024 at 7:59 PM, sevigny said:

Hi Erewhon, 

Funny that you should mention the leaks in the Neptune.  I believe it was late Friday or Saturday evening, that we came into the Neptune as it was closing, only to find poor Kristina surrounded by buckets on a tarp. She looked horribly embarrassed.  I felt so sorry for her.  On the plus side, they have just instituted afternoon appetizers orders for the suites.  Less choices, but they were yummy, and evidently change every few days.  We are enjoying, it’s just an adjustment.  Thanks for your comments, I was afraid I was being too picky.

Kristina (the Neptune Lounge concierge) was our favorite crew member on our recent cruise on Noordam.  She took such good care of us when my DW and I got COVID (sequentially, not together).  She was also proactive when we were having troubles with room service.  I think she put the fear of God into the room service staff.  After the first couple of issues, the service was prompt and over-the-top gracious.  I can actually picture her as horrible embarrassed at the situation.

[erewhon]

7 hours ago, sciencewonk said:

Kristina (the Neptune Lounge concierge) was our favorite crew member on our recent cruise on Noordam.  She took such good care of us when my DW and I got COVID (sequentially, not together).  She was also proactive when we were having troubles with room service.  I think she put the fear of God into the room service staff.  After the first couple of issues, the service was prompt and over-the-top gracious.  I can actually picture her as horrible embarrassed at the situation.

 

@sciencewonk  on which Noordam cruise did you sail.?

[sciencewonk]

14 hours ago, erewhon said:

 

@sciencewonk  on which Noordam cruise did you sail.?

We were on a Nov/Dec cruise from Auckland to Sydney.  That was our second time on Noordam.  The first was a year earlier when we cruised from San Diego to Sydney.  We absolutely loved it.

[erewhon]

On 4/13/2024 at 11:09 AM, sciencewonk said:

We were on a Nov/Dec cruise from Auckland to Sydney.  That was our second time on Noordam.  The first was a year earlier when we cruised from San Diego to Sydney.  We absolutely loved it.

 

@sciencewonk  apologies for my late  reply, but thank you.  

[rodndonna]

On 4/8/2024 at 10:55 AM, LocoLoco1 said:

Family & friends currently on one of the newest vessels report the Post-Covid guest experience aboard ship is noticeably diminished as regards Piano players, Poolside activity attendants, lecturers, smaller dining entrees, $Pay-to-Dine$ upsells, etc etc. Is parent CCL still that $Broke$ or is the competition pummeling it with Fare cuts?? Somethings afoot, but WHY??

 

Since Covid we have sailed HAL, Celebrity, Princess and NCL and have been lurking on those boards. They all have an equivalent version of this thread resurrect regularly. I suspect the boards on the lines I don't peruse much have them also. 

[TRLD]

2 hours ago, rodndonna said:

 

Since Covid we have sailed HAL, Celebrity, Princess and NCL and have been lurking on those boards. They all have an equivalent version of this thread resurrect regularly. I suspect the boards on the lines I don't peruse much have them also. 

Currently getting ready to get off an Oceania ship. Similar comments made about Oceania by some on board.

[Kay S]

2 hours ago, TRLD said:

Currently getting ready to get off an Oceania ship. Similar comments made about Oceania by some on board.

Post-covid cruising has been a mixed bag for us.  Depending on the ship, HAL has been the least disappointing.  Princess the worst, on each ship we tried (three, in total, had lots of FCC to use up.)  Two domestic river cruises were pretty much awful.  In my opinion, the lines are making a mistake by running off the older, more traditional cruisers in order to attract the young money.  Yes, I know they need to make up the shortfall, but isn't there a happy medium in there?  We're trying Oceania ourselves to see if it's any better.  Covid really caused problems.

[Mary229]

2 hours ago, Kay S said:

Post-covid cruising has been a mixed bag for us.  Depending on the ship, HAL has been the least disappointing.  Princess the worst, on each ship we tried (three, in total, had lots of FCC to use up.)  Two domestic river cruises were pretty much awful.  In my opinion, the lines are making a mistake by running off the older, more traditional cruisers in order to attract the young money.  Yes, I know they need to make up the shortfall, but isn't there a happy medium in there?  We're trying Oceania ourselves to see if it's any better.  Covid really caused problems.

Good luck with Oceania.  I had high hopes for them and was sorely disappointed.  Let us know what you think.  My two biggest disappointments were the crew was downright surly and unpleasant and the “included excursions “ were 2-3 hour cattle drives.  This was in the Med late 2018.  2022 and early 2023 were the worst for cruising with lots of cutbacks and rookie crews. Since the 2nd half of 2023 I have seen vast improvement on HAL.  The crew is getting into the groove, old timer crew are coming back and new entertainment and dining options are being put in place.  Sure many older features are gone but to many of those features I  say good riddance. 

[RuthC]

22 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

Good luck with Oceania.

I agree. Restaurant and lounge service was poor, at best. 

I have great difficulty, and pain, walking (and did when I sailed Oceania). 
When returning to the ship, I scraped my hand, tore the skin off, and was bleeding profusely. I headed straight to the Front Desk, which was on the same deck as the gangway, to ask for a bandage. This has been a frequent request on HAL, who has always helped, so was the first thing I thought to do. They refused to help, trying to send me to the Medical Office, on another deck, to get the bandage. As I said, walking wasn't easy, and I didn't want to be dripping blood while panicking on a long, painful, walk. 

I did finally get them to help, but they should have done it willingly! 
Needless to say, though, I am not a fan of the 'service' on board Oceania. 

[Moriah]

On 4/8/2024 at 1:08 PM, AV8rix said:

And the dedicated computer dude in the library, and the crew show, and the classical music, and I could go on and on.

Sigh... I still miss "Love in any Language...." the night before disembarking. 

[USN59-79]

We did 42 days on the Westerdam Yokohama to Seattle last Spring and noticed some cutbacks, particularly the service in the Pinnacle Grill.  We decided to try something different, and recently completed 33 days on Seabourn Sojourn, part of the Carnival group, from Sydney to Taipei.  If you are willing to go upscale, there is a definite, positive difference.  Within three days crew members knew our name and the type of wine we enjoyed.  I asked our excellent room stewardess how many rooms she was responsible for and she said 17.  Drinks were free, and when I asked the room person for a bottle of American whiskey, she promptly delivered a liter of Jack Daniels.  When we left the ship there were only two charges; both for visas.  Although there are no mandatory gratuities, the crew seemed happier and less stressed than on a HAL ship.

Ray

[Blackduck59]

Does anyone have a very famous heritage hotel in their town, or in a port you visit? I do, the world famous Empress Hotel (Built by Canadian Pacific) now run by "Fairmont" I can tell you that "The Empress" aint what she used to be and never will be again. To sit and pine for what was is a fools errand. There have been changes but to suggest that HAL has come to an end because they have eliminated the "Yum Yum man", really? They stopped demeaning some crew member by putting them in a monkey suit, and that is reason for finding a new cruise line?

[TRLD]

5 hours ago, Kay S said:

Post-covid cruising has been a mixed bag for us.  Depending on the ship, HAL has been the least disappointing.  Princess the worst, on each ship we tried (three, in total, had lots of FCC to use up.)  Two domestic river cruises were pretty much awful.  In my opinion, the lines are making a mistake by running off the older, more traditional cruisers in order to attract the young money.  Yes, I know they need to make up the shortfall, but isn't there a happy medium in there?  We're trying Oceania ourselves to see if it's any better.  Covid really caused problems.

The numbers for most recent quarters when compared to pre covid indicate that the cruise lines have not cut their operational spend. CCL for example is spending 21% more on food per passenger per day across its lines then the last quarter in 2019. Which is slightly below the retail food inflation rate of 24% for the same period. However since the cruise lines buy in bulk and at wholesale levels that would indicate parity with pre covid and does not indicate any major operational cuts due to debt levels.

 

I suspect the operational changes which are pretty much in line with changes over a similar period in time precovid are more due to changes in society and customer base or desired new customers.

 

Society overall is less formal and getting even less so. Popularity of dishes like steak is lower, casual dining becoming more popular, etc.

 

The cruise lines are spending similar amounts, just not on the same thing.

[TRLD]

4 hours ago, Mary229 said:

Good luck with Oceania.  I had high hopes for them and was sorely disappointed.  Let us know what you think.  My two biggest disappointments were the crew was downright surly and unpleasant and the “included excursions “ were 2-3 hour cattle drives.  This was in the Med late 2018.  2022 and early 2023 were the worst for cruising with lots of cutbacks and rookie crews. Since the 2nd half of 2023 I have seen vast improvement on HAL.  The crew is getting into the groove, old timer crew are coming back and new entertainment and dining options are being put in place.  Sure many older features are gone but to many of those features I  say good riddance. 

While I agree about being disappointed, I disagree on the reasons. On the 21 day Oceania cruise that I just got off of the crew was friendly, the service was quite good, the excursions were the same as offered by other cruise lines including HAL, Princess and Celebrity.  One can pick excursions since the fare includes excursion credits, not specific included excursions like Viking.

 

What I found disappointing was the lack of day to day variety in both entertainment and food. While the daily sushi  lobster and steaks to order on Terrace Grill. Most of the menu, including in their specialty restaurants did not seem better than on HAL, Princess or Celebrity and changed less. 

 

The way I would describe Oceania live music is a string quartet, a piano  player, and the show band mostly used to provide background music for tea, happy hour, etc. Pretty much the same day to day.cThe major variation was in the one 9:30 show each night, but the shoe was really not any better and often not as good as on the 3 adult focused main stream lines.

 

Basically I considered the food and entertainment to be over curated with little flexibility.

 

There are many things Oceania does well. The small ship size was nice.

 

I did find one unexpected downside with the 600 passenger ship that I was on. Services that are available in ports for larger ships, were not operating with the smaller Oceania. One example was the hoppa on hoppa off in Hilo that provides some nice options to cruise tours, but considered the Oceania ship to be too small to operate.

 

Basically we paid approximately 65% more per day for the cruise, including all on board spend for an experience that we liked less then our time on HAL or Princess.

Edited April 21 by TRLD

[rodndonna]

11 hours ago, TRLD said:

I suspect the operational changes which are pretty much in line with changes over a similar period in time precovid are more due to changes in society and customer base or desired new customers.

 

Society overall is less formal and getting even less so. Popularity of dishes like steak is lower, casual dining becoming more popular, etc.

 

The cruise lines are spending similar amounts, just not on the same thing.

 

I totally agree. The majority of time people complain about food decline from the "good old days" they complain about "steak" and/or "lobster" .....without noting the PLETHORA of new options and dietary restrictions that are now accomodated.

 

For us, the things we eat today is NOTHING like what we ate 40, 30, 20 years ago ... . The restaurants (ones that have have survived changing trends in what people eat) have varied over the years, my grocery stores have varied over the years, Most of my diet today (probably 5 out of 7 suppers a week) are items I NEVER ate 30 years ago. 

 

 

[foodsvcmgr]

I think as long as some of the old traditional food options remain most people should be satisfied.

It can’t all be the latest trendy presentations.

Despite decades as a Food & Beverage Director I’ll take traditional basic steak any day.

New flavor profiles are interesting but often one and done.

[amandas friend]

I agree with the comments. To me, food is not the primary reason we cruise. I don’t expect five star food when you are serving that many people. That said, the last time we cruised on Celebrity the food was well below par so we won’t be cruising with them. 

[rodndonna]

Just one final comment from me .... (famous last words)...

 

I totally understand people's frustrations and that thinking of "I have been a regular XYZ cruiser for 35 years... and they are not focusing on "me" ... their loyal customer"

 

I kinda would argue they are focusing on "you" , but more in the form of the "new you" ... As an example If you are a now loyal 75 year old cruiser you likely started with HAL  when you were 40-50 years old .... they were focusing on you then, and that's still who they are still focusing on I expect. 

 

There is still something for everyone, but the focus I believe is the 40-55ish demo ... and that demo has a much wider palate and more dietary restrictions/desires that previous generations.

 

Maybe I am wrong, and I am not a cruise business expert, but if I were a HAL like brand of cruise, that is who I would focus on.

[TRLD]

1 hour ago, foodsvcmgr said:

I think as long as some of the old traditional food options remain most people should be satisfied.

It can’t all be the latest trendy presentations.

Despite decades as a Food & Beverage Director I’ll take traditional basic steak any day.

New flavor profiles are interesting but often one and done.

How many steak houses exist today compared to even 20 years ago? Maybe 30%.

 

 Lots more casual ethnic dining in the US today which I would not call one and done. Some that one would not have found out of specific neighborhoods in large cities 30 years ago.  The key is much more variety, in a ever changing mix of offerings. If cruise lines want to appeal they need to keep up with the expectations of the market they serve.

 

For the most part food on a ship is not fine dining. It is hotel banquet food with a larger selection. Lobster  steak, and sushi on board ship is usually not the best, especially not sushi.  I tend to avoid those on ship because the quality is simply not there compared to land based restaurants.

Edited April 21 by TRLD

[Mary229]

16 minutes ago, TRLD said:

How many steak houses exist today compared to even 20 years ago? Maybe 30%.

 

 Lots more casual ethnic dining in the US today which I would not call one and done. Some that one would not have found out of specific neighborhoods in large cities 30 years ago.  The key is much more variety, in a ever changing mix of offerings. If cruise lines want to appeal they need to keep up with the expectations of the market they serve.

 

For the most part food on a ship is not fine dining. It is hotel banquet food with a larger selection. Lobster  steak, and sushi on board ship is usually not the best, especially not sushi.  I tend to avoid those on ship because the quality is simply not there compared to land based restaurants.

Same with entertainment.  I grew up in the very tail end of the variety show era with all of the dance routines and production shows.  It is not what people watch anymore.  I go to our theater a lot and rarely have I seen an equivalent to the cruise line production show. I see traditional, cultural productions and their updated cousins, small troupe plays and comedy, solo artists or small band performances.  People also still attend ballet, symphony and the like but large scale performances cannot be accomplished well on a cruise ship just like 5 star dining is not easily replicated in the confines of a ship galley 

[TRLD]

Just now, Mary229 said:

Same with entertainment.  I grew up in the very tail end of the variety show era with all of the dance routines and production shows.  It is not what people watch anymore.  I go to our theater a lot and rarely have I seen an equivalent to the cruise line production show. I see traditional, cultural productions and their updated cousins, small troupe plays and comedy, solo artists or small band performances.  People also still attend ballet, symphony and the like but large scale performances cannot be accomplished well on a cruise ship just like 5 star dining is not easily replicated in the confines of a ship galley 

On my recent Oceania cruise the production shows brought back a flash of memory of my parents watching Lawrence Welk. I was just waiting for a one and a two and a three to be said.

[Blackduck59]

I find the great "Steak & Lobster" debate interesting. It seems everybody likes lobster when it is "included in the fare" (it was NEVER "free") but find they really don't think it is that great if they have to pay extra for it. Those who do like it pay the tariff. I like lobster well enough but not enough to pay extra. I literally laugh when those pushing Oceania or Regent or... mention the "free" lobster. News flash it's not "free" but included in your inflated fare, paid by all guests whether they eat lobster or not. I think that with the advent of the gas grill the majority of people can prepare a very good steak at home. Assuming they know how to select a steak from the butcher shop or grocery store (this is the most important part). So if you like lobster pay the tariff for it on HAL, I suspect that even if you paid for it every day you probably wouldn't come close to the fare for one of those "included in the fare" brands.