6 month passport rule? Help!

[sparks1093]

25 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

Websites are written by marketing and are not reliable. The cruise contract is written by legal. I could cite examples of discrepancies 

Yes and the contract usually doesn't go into specifics about travel documents. Just says it's the passenger's responsibility. Since Royals website says passports "must have 6 months validity " that is what I would personally go with.

[njhorseman]

2 hours ago, Mary229 said:

Websites are written by marketing and are not reliable. The cruise contract is written by legal. I could cite examples of discrepancies 

Competently managed companies will have website materials having legal implications reviewed by their legal compliance staff. 

 

[njhorseman]

5 hours ago, CDNPolar said:

2) Go to the US site for travelling Americans and they will tell you what each country requires. 

Unfortunately the US Department of State's website is not a reliable source of that information. It fails to identify all the destinations that have permitted exceptions for US citizens on cruises that have been made to their usual passport requirements.

 

A couple of examples of the Department of State having incorrect information are Sint Maarten and Bermuda, destinations where thousands of cruise passengers go every week. If you were to believe State, all US citizens cruising to these two destinations are required to have passports, when in fact both countries participate in the WHTI and permit alternate documentation such as a passport card or enhanced drivers license, and for closed loop cruises an official birth certificate and government-issued photo ID are acceptable.

[Mary229]

1 hour ago, njhorseman said:

Competently managed companies will have website materials having legal implications reviewed by their legal compliance staff. 

 

Oh, well. I can name at least on CCL company who has conflicting information between the website and the cruise contract.  

[CDNPolar]

1 hour ago, njhorseman said:

Unfortunately the US Department of State's website is not a reliable source of that information. It fails to identify all the destinations that have permitted exceptions for US citizens on cruises that have been made to their usual passport requirements.

 

A couple of examples of the Department of State having incorrect information are Sint Maarten and Bermuda, destinations where thousands of cruise passengers go every week. If you were to believe State, all US citizens cruising to these two destinations are required to have passports, when in fact both countries participate in the WHTI and permit alternate documentation such as a passport card or enhanced drivers license, and for closed loop cruises an official birth certificate and government-issued photo ID are acceptable.

 

Guess that I am lucky to be in Canada as any country that I want to travel to our government site is where I would go first and have always been able to confirm that against the country's government site.

[Charles4515]

3 hours ago, njhorseman said:

Competently managed companies will have website materials having legal implications reviewed by their legal compliance staff. 

 

Royal Caribbean's website has become vague about documents required which causes a lot of fear and uncertainty. I don't think  they want to be competent. I think it is on purpose. 

[sparks1093]

2 hours ago, Mary229 said:

Oh, well. I can name at least on CCL company who has conflicting information between the website and the cruise contract.  

Here's what Carnival's contract says about travel documents:

Proper travel documentation and eligibility to travel is required at embarkation and throughout the cruise. In addition to immigration and customs requirements, the U.S. government and others place restrictions on the carriage of Guests whose names appear on government watch lists or who are deemed legally ineligible to travel. It is the Guest’s sole responsibility to ensure his/her legal eligibility to travel and to bring and have available at all times all required travel documents. Guests are advised to check with their travel agent and with the appropriate government authorities to determine the necessary documents and travel eligibility requirements for their particular cruise destinations, including the port of embarkation. Carnival assumes no responsibility for advising Guest of what travel documents are required for the requested itinerary and it is recommended that Guest travel with a valid government issued passport at all times. Carnival may cancel the booking of any Guest who is or becomes ineligible to travel for any reason, or who is traveling without proper documentation. 

 

In short, passenger's responsibility. Their FAQ does give details about the documentation required for different itineraries. 

[Mary229]

10 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Here's what Carnival's contract says about travel documents:

Proper travel documentation and eligibility to travel is required at embarkation and throughout the cruise. In addition to immigration and customs requirements, the U.S. government and others place restrictions on the carriage of Guests whose names appear on government watch lists or who are deemed legally ineligible to travel. It is the Guest’s sole responsibility to ensure his/her legal eligibility to travel and to bring and have available at all times all required travel documents. Guests are advised to check with their travel agent and with the appropriate government authorities to determine the necessary documents and travel eligibility requirements for their particular cruise destinations, including the port of embarkation. Carnival assumes no responsibility for advising Guest of what travel documents are required for the requested itinerary and it is recommended that Guest travel with a valid government issued passport at all times. Carnival may cancel the booking of any Guest who is or becomes ineligible to travel for any reason, or who is traveling without proper documentation. 

 

In short, passenger's responsibility. Their FAQ does give details about the documentation required for different itineraries. 

This is going to be a situation where you do you and I do me.  I am not planning to be left at the pier.  Of course I travel far and wide not just near the US

Edited April 14 by Mary229

[sparks1093]

48 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

This is going to be a situation where you do you and I do me.  I am not planning to be left at the pier.  Of course I travel far and wide not just near the US

I'm not sure where the disconnect is, but given the language on Royals site it reads like they require 6 months validity remaining on a passport so that is what I would do because I wouldn't want to be left behind. I only quoted Carnival's contract because you brought it up.

[Mary229]

3 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

I'm not sure where the disconnect is, but given the language on Royals site it reads like they require 6 months validity remaining on a passport so that is what I would do because I wouldn't want to be left behind. I only quoted Carnival's contract because you brought it up.

I brought up CCL’s lines since I am aware that some of their lines’ website details contradict the cruise contract.  I rely on the cruise contract in all cases.  I know the website verbiage can be flawed and not legally reviewed as frequently as the contract. 

[njhorseman]

3 hours ago, Mary229 said:

Oh, well. I can name at least on CCL company who has conflicting information between the website and the cruise contract.  

Care to give a specific example?

[Mary229]

1 minute ago, njhorseman said:

Care to give a specific example?

Sure.  On Holland’s website it gives smoking guidelines which are significantly inconsistent with the cruise contract 

[njhorseman]

16 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

Sure.  On Holland’s website it gives smoking guidelines which are significantly inconsistent with the cruise contract 

We're talking about documentation requirements...passports and other forms of documentation, not smoking.

 

[Mary229]

29 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

We're talking about documentation requirements...passports and other forms of documentation, not smoking.

 

I stated that there are discrepancies between legal issue between the websites which are written mainly by marketing and the cruise contract which is written by legal. I know of this passage of inconsistency and I would assume there are more.  I read the cruise contract, that is the only document that ultimately matters.  If it is unclear and I had further concerns I would call and get in writing clarification.  As I said to another - you do  you and I will do me.  I am not spending thousands of dollars flying across the world only to be denied boarding for not doing my due diligence.  You go right ahead 

Edited April 15 by Mary229

[njhorseman]

Just now, Mary229 said:

I stated that there are discrepancies between legal issue between the websites which are written mainly by marketing and the cruise contract which is written by legal. I know of this passage of inconsistency and I would assume there are more.  I read the cruise contract, that is the only document that ultimately matters.  If it is unclear and I had further concerns I would call and get in writing clarification.  As I said to another - you do  you and I will do me.  I am not spending thousands of dollars flying across the world only to be denied boarding for not doing my due diligence.  You go right ahead 

How do you propose to determine what documentation is required for your cruise by reading the contract ? 

As @sparks1093 noted hours ago and documented by quoting the Carnival contract cruise contracts generally do not contain the specifics of what passenger documents are required beyond saying that it's the passenger's responsibility to have the appropriate documentation.

[Mary229]

10 minutes ago, njhorseman said:

How do you propose to determine what documentation is required for your cruise by reading the contract ? 

As @sparks1093 noted hours ago and documented by quoting the Carnival contract cruise contracts generally do not contain the specifics of what passenger documents are required beyond saying that it's the passenger's responsibility to have the appropriate documentation.

Showing up at the dock and saying some guy on cruise critic said so is not going to cut it.  As I have stated at least three times I would call the cruise line and get it in writing.  Personally I have a valid passport and won’t travel with others who don’t.  

[Charles4515]

10 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

Showing up at the dock and saying some guy on cruise critic said so is not going to cut it.  As I have stated at least three times I would call the cruise line and get it in writing.  Personally I have a valid passport and won’t travel with others who don’t.  

Why you do think they would give something satisfactory in writing? I think they will give a vague answer in writing. 

Edited April 15 by Charles4515

[ontheweb]

11 minutes ago, Charles4515 said:

Why you do think they would give something satisfactory in writing? I think they will give a vague answer in writing. 

In fact, quoting the contract language that has been posted, they say they take NO responsibility for advising guests what documentation is needed!

[njhorseman]

43 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

Showing up at the dock and saying some guy on cruise critic said so is not going to cut it.  As I have stated at least three times I would call the cruise line and get it in writing.  Personally I have a valid passport and won’t travel with others who don’t.  

You've also said at least three times that you rely on the wording in the passenger contract, when in fact that wording isn't there.

The cruise line isn't giving you anything in writing because the contract says it's your responsibility to have the required documentation and they take no responsibility for advising you.

 

[sparks1093]

8 hours ago, Mary229 said:

Showing up at the dock and saying some guy on cruise critic said so is not going to cut it.  As I have stated at least three times I would call the cruise line and get it in writing.  Personally I have a valid passport and won’t travel with others who don’t.  

I don't worry about what other people choose to use for documentation, it's their choice so why should I care? 

[Mary229]

1 hour ago, sparks1093 said:

I don't worry about what other people choose to use for documentation, it's their choice so why should I care? 

That is the OP’s question.  We are all only merely stating our opinion as none of us have authority in this situation.  
 

as to the others in this thread who think they know the answer , their opinion is theirs.  They state there is no way to know but then boldly state what the OP should do. Can I ask - on what basis?

I have been very clear that I have no authority in this case and would not advise the OP except to say this is the wrong place to ask.  

Edited April 15 by Mary229

[sparks1093]

16 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

That is the OP’s question.  We are all only merely stating our opinion as none of us have authority in this situation.  
 

as to the others in this thread who think they know the answer , their opinion is theirs.  They state there is no way to know but then boldly state what the OP should do. Can I ask - on what basis?

I have been very clear that I have no authority in this case and would not advise the OP except to say this is the wrong place to ask.  

Some of us have actually read the Royal information on the OP's question and have provided him an answer based on that reading, while also suggesting that they read if for themselves. There is nothing wrong with seeking input/information from those who have "been there/done that". Yes, there may be misinformation given, but that is usually winnowed out fairly easily by the number of correct answers given. So to sum up- none of the ports on OP's itinerary require six months of validity remaining. Fact, not opinion. The cruise line may impose a stricter standard than that required by law, rule or regulations. Fact, not opinion. Royal's language is strongly indicative of the fact that they do require 6 months validity. Fact, not opinion. Therefore my opinion is that if I were in OP's shoes I would make sure that our passports had 6 months validity. (And having read Royal's FAQ I have to agree with @Charles4515 that they are being intentionally vague, probably hoping that guests will just get a passport. If I were a new cruiser though it would only serve to push me into the arms of a cruise line whose guidance is clearer.)

 

The only bone of contention, I think, is that you would call the cruise line for info and my opinion is that is an exercise in futility for all of the reasons previously stated in this thread. 

[Mary229]

12 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Some of us have actually read the Royal information on the OP's question and have provided him an answer based on that reading, while also suggesting that they read if for themselves. There is nothing wrong with seeking input/information from those who have "been there/done that". Yes, there may be misinformation given, but that is usually winnowed out fairly easily by the number of correct answers given. So to sum up- none of the ports on OP's itinerary require six months of validity remaining. Fact, not opinion. The cruise line may impose a stricter standard than that required by law, rule or regulations. Fact, not opinion. Royal's language is strongly indicative of the fact that they do require 6 months validity. Fact, not opinion. Therefore my opinion is that if I were in OP's shoes I would make sure that our passports had 6 months validity. (And having read Royal's FAQ I have to agree with @Charles4515 that they are being intentionally vague, probably hoping that guests will just get a passport. If I were a new cruiser though it would only serve to push me into the arms of a cruise line whose guidance is clearer.)

 

The only bone of contention, I think, is that you would call the cruise line for info and my opinion is that is an exercise in futility for all of the reasons previously stated in this thread. 

So your answer summarized is “read the cruise contract” ?

[sparks1093]

6 minutes ago, Mary229 said:

So your answer summarized is “read the cruise contract” ?

Nope, because that isn't where the answer is. Read what they say on their website, that's where the specifics are.

[ontheweb]

2 minutes ago, sparks1093 said:

Nope, because that isn't where the answer is. Read what they say on their website, that's where the specifics are.

But the contract is the legally binding provision, while the website is basically marketing. And to make things worse, they basically say it's your responsibility, don't count on us for an answer.

 

Maybe the best thing is to go by what experiences other passengers have had with this question.