Removing pre paid gratuities while on the ship

[S.A.M.J.R.]

5 minutes ago, Neosophy said:

The problem with tipping in cash is those tips dont get shared evenly, just the person who interacts with you directly.

You really don't know that.  People like to say "I'm just going to tip who wait on me, I'm not helping those I don't see!" but, just like in a restaurant on land, you have no idea what happens to that tip money.  Does the person you're giving it to share it with other individuals?  Do they put part of it in a "pot" for employee parties?  

 

A seven day cruise w/Royal's tips ($18.50pp/pd currently, right?) would be $129.50pp.  Assume two people and you're at $260.  That's the "automatic gratuity".

But you like to give cash, so you remove the auto grats, and give $50 to your cabin attendant, $50 to your waiter, and $40 to your assistant waiter ($140).  

Then $5 for each breakfast and lunch (another $70), then $1/drink (say $5 per day, so another $35).  $245.  You're still out about the same amount of money, but you're "sticking it to Royal", because your money isn't "subsidizing" other's pay.  Which you really have no idea about. 

[not-enough-cruising]

14 minutes ago, Neosophy said:

The problem with tipping in cash is those tips dont get shared evenly, just the person who interacts with you directly.

That is the point EXACTLY, my intention is to provide a show of gratitude to ONLY the person I give it to. 
I couldn’t care less about the dishwasher or laundry personnel; again, those services are covered by my cruise fare. 

[time4u2go]

9 minutes ago, not-enough-cruising said:

That is the point EXACTLY, my intention is to provide a show of gratitude to ONLY the person I give it to. 
I couldn’t care less about the dishwasher or laundry personnel; again, those services are covered by my cruise fare. 

I agree.  If we concern ourselves with the person that washes the dishes, then do we also worry about the person that fixes the dishwashing equipment, the person that cooks the food that feeds the person that fixes the dishwashing equipment, etc?  Where does it end?  Those things should be built in to the cruise fare.

[gerif]

3 hours ago, Kiki and The Noush said:

Just a thought - if you select traditional dining at the early time and don't show up, can't you just get in the MTD line when you want to?  I know someone will say that isn't fair because they are holding your table, but you could just pop into the MDR shortly after you board and release the table.  Just an idea.

No, you cannot. Either fixed seating or MTD. You cannot switch from one or the other as you please but you can eat in the buffet whenever you want. 
 

What I am unable to understand is how someone can endure service that is so bad that they can justify removing tips without making any effort to fix the issue. Poor waitstaff? Talk to the head waiter (that’s their job). I’ve done it and gotten good results. Unhappy with the room steward? Talk with the head of housekeeping. To just remove everyone’s tips is just looking for an excuse to be cheap IMHO. 

[A&L_Ont]

15 hours ago, Billy Baltic said:

I think you’re being optimistic. If it gets rolled into the initial cost, it will just become “I can’t believe you are only tipping what is included’. There is a group of gratuity police on CC who will be never be happy. 

 

6 hours ago, jean87510 said:

Agreed.  And they will brag how they continue to hand out cash.

 

To be fair the word tip is a dog whistle for both sides of the discussion.  
 

With optimism, if it was included in the cruise cost the discussions would be reduced here on CC.👏

[Vampiress88]

4 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

Not if you are booking in the USA

Sorry you are correct. Only mandatory if you are booking a European cruise. 
 

 

[Vampiress88]

3 hours ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

 

Then you have answered your own question.  

You either chose My Time Dining and pay the gratuities (as per policy on this sailing), or chose to take you chances with dining at a time not appealing to you, and/or have at least some of your meals in the Buffet.

 

The cruise company has set the rules, you need to decide how to move forward.

 

 

So what I’m asking is that if I don’t get the correct service, am I still within my rights to go to reception and ask them to reduce the gratuity or is it because I have already physically paid for them then it’s already a done deal kind of thing? 

 

that was my original question. 
as I feel the same as others. Tips are earnt not expected. 
Our MSC cruises we couldn’t go the MDR due to them putting it at 8.30 and couldn’t move it. Had they have not been late deals then I would have cancelled but I didn’t look at the line before booking. 
I did look at RC but missed the mandatory tip due to European sailing part for my time dining. 
 

Everyone keeps raving about how good RC is and I really hope it is cos I’ve paid £200 more than I usually would with the other cruise line then another £383 in tips on top. 
 

I asked the question as I get mixed messages from the staff. Few weeks ago it was go see reception. Now I get well if you have bad service then we might take it off. 
 

I feel like they have my money so don’t give a monkeys
 

[jean87510]

40 minutes ago, A&L_Ont said:

 

To be fair the word tip is a dog whistle for both sides of the discussion.  
 

With optimism, if it was included in the cruise cost the discussions would be reduced here on CC.👏

Yes it is.  On my end, I don't like people calling people cheap if they choose not to do as they do.  I think a lot of the pushback against not the gratuities but the extra cash being handed out is due to the overkill for lack of a better word of the tipping culture in the US since the pandemic.  I for one would be more than happy with the tips included.  I actually just booked an excursion in Grand Cayman where the tip was available pre trip.  It saves me carrying cash around.  If the cruiselines went this way, I truly wouldn't care where they spread the gratuities because I'm on vacation.  

[not-enough-cruising]

3 minutes ago, CruisingHogFan said:

Cruise lines use the American tip culture. It doesn’t matter if you like it or not. It’s not built into the cruise price (I wish it was) so it doesn’t matter if your country doesn’t tip or not. If you want to tip extra cash to people great but there is a reason for the auto gratuity since you can’t tip everyone in person. 

 

Anyone who removes the auto gratuities is the lowest class of person there is. Seems like most do it are the ones that do it cruise often. If you can’t afford to pay the people who help make your vacation enjoyable then you shouldn’t be going on a vacation in the first place and saving money… 

 

 

What one can or can not afford has zero bearing on the discussion. 

 

Personally, I am very fortunate, and can afford just about anything I desire to have. I do not book cheap rooms. I continue to book (albeit less) despite the rapidly increasing fares.  The thousands i spend for a week on the ship should be used to fund the payroll. I have done my part by simply purchasing a fare.

 

I do not, however, pay an arbitrary pre set amount of cash to any corporation when they make it optional.  I (and a rapidly growing number) tip AFTER service is rendered, and in an amount commensurate with the quality of services received.

[3yorkies]

On 4/18/2024 at 7:00 AM, TwoMisfits said:

 

Tips are for all meals, whether you eat them in the buffet, sit down, or pay restaurants.

 

 

I have started doing the Unlimited dining in the specialty restaurants.   Those tips are NOT part of the auto-gratuity, but you are charged 18% on the plan when booked.    I never eat in the MDR or WJ on a cruise, only specialty restaurants.  For that reason I remove the auto-tips and just add the money to my specialty dining tips where the service is almost 100% great and the tip that is in the 18% is not adequate in my opinion, so I prefer it go to the people who actually serve me.   I just use cash at each meal.   And I tip the room steward at the start of the cruise and add more at the end.   Works for me and I feel it allows the tips to actually go to those who have earned it.   Since my drinks are free with D+, I tip in cash on those too.   I bring a large stack of 1's and 5's on my cruises.   By tipping in cash I also know that the funds are actually going in the pocket of the intended person.

 

 

[Hoopster95]

I repeat for the millionth time on this forum, Royal Caribbean calls this a "gratuity", however it is part of the the employees wages. Royal, under maritime law, pay their staff an incredibly low base salary... the employees are contracted to work at this "base" salary PLUS the contract stipulates that they earn portion of the tipping pool which makes up their total wages.

If the tipping pool does not reach a minimum amount, then Royal Caribbean has to pay the employee the shortfall under their contract.

 

Calling this a "gratuity" is a gross misrepresentation by the cruise lines. At very bare minimum, it should be called a "service fee" or "resort fee" like you have all over the United States in hotels or restaurants. More transparently and honestly, it should be included into the cruise fare up front.

Edited April 21 by Hoopster95

[S.A.M.J.R.]

1 hour ago, 3yorkies said:

I have started doing the Unlimited dining in the specialty restaurants.   Those tips are NOT part of the auto-gratuity, but you are charged 18% on the plan when booked.    I never eat in the MDR or WJ on a cruise, only specialty restaurants.  For that reason I remove the auto-tips and just add the money to my specialty dining tips where the service is almost 100% great and the tip that is in the 18% is not adequate in my opinion, so I prefer it go to the people who actually serve me.   I just use cash at each meal.   And I tip the room steward at the start of the cruise and add more at the end.   Works for me and I feel it allows the tips to actually go to those who have earned it.   Since my drinks are free with D+, I tip in cash on those too. 

 

 

Just curious... (I really don't know), does Unlimited dining also cover your breakfasts and lunch?  If not, do you leave tips there?  

1 hour ago, 3yorkies said:

 

  I bring a large stack of 1's and 5's on my cruises.   By tipping in cash I also know that the funds are actually going in the pocket of the intended person.

No, you don't.  OK, they might go "in the pocket" of the person you hand it to temporarily, but you have no idea if they share them with anyone else.  Claiming "I know who gets my tips", IMO, is just a "feel good" saying people use.  

[3yorkies]

45 minutes ago, S.A.M.J.R. said:

Just curious... (I really don't know), does Unlimited dining also cover your breakfasts and lunch?  If not, do you leave tips there?  

No, you don't.  OK, they might go "in the pocket" of the person you hand it to temporarily, but you have no idea if they share them with anyone else.  Claiming "I know who gets my tips", IMO, is just a "feel good" saying people use.  

I get up around 10.  Never eat breakfast on cruises or at home.  I'm usually out until 3 a.m. or later.   Lunches are included in the specialty restaurants on sea days.   On port days I eat in the various ports, as that's part of the fun of going to the ports.   If I want an additional snack late night on a ship with a Playmakers (or even when first get back on ship before my late dinners), that is covered by the UDP up to $20.00 a day.    The only other place I may have a snack is in the Crown Lounge where I do tip if there.    If I go to the Starbucks and get a cappuccino, I  tip there.  But I see NO REASON to tip the people in Windjammer and the MDR if I am never there.        

I have become friendly with several bartenders and a couple of servers in Chops on Navigator, and they all say they get to keep their cash tips.   A few of the bars they share with the ones on the shift.   All say they prefer cash tips.   If they do share, it is their decision.  It is not being used by the cruise line to actually pay part of their salary.   Even on land if I charge a meal to a cc, I still leave the tip in cash.   I bartended in college and worked as a server in high school, so tips are something I recognize as needed.  I always preferred cash tips, as they are immediate and you don't have to wonder if you are going to actually get them.  I have also had room stewards say they prefer cash.   If it is true that the cruise line has to make up any deficiency from the gratuities on their checks, why would they NOT prefer to get cash tips as their check is still a regular check?     

And, yes, you are right that it is also a "feel good" thing in that I have always enjoyed thanking someone directly for good service and handing them a nice tip.   I started cruising in the late 1970's and you always got envelopes in your room for your tips, but even then I tended to tip each day and then extra at the end.   At some point the lines started changing to the auto-gratuity, and I don't think it was to benefit the employees, rather the cruise line.       

[Vibe]

The cruise line crew that work behind the scenes and those who work in positions that have directly contact with guests agree to their compensation based on the automatic gratuities that the guests pay.

When you pay the automatic gratuities you contribute to that salary plan that is acceptable to the crew when signing their employment contract.

 

I personally don’t like that method, I agree that it is a scam, however I pay the automatic gratuities because I feel that I contributed to every crew members agreed compensation and don’t want to disrupt it.

 

If a crew member goes over and above, I discreetly give them cash as a thank you.

 

The crew members are from areas of the world that does not have many opportunities, they work hard and are away from their families. We are so blessed that we can afford to cruise and have the time to cruise. The $18 per person per day is not going to break any of us. Most of us spend that amount of money on things that are not necessary. Why are some obsessing over this?
 

Keep this in mind:

• Part of the cruise fare is taxes and fees. We have no idea of the breakdown of where that money goes.
• The cruise line adds the gratuities on as a separate charge so that initial total cost seems lower, the same way hotels have resort fees, both practices are not ideal, but it is what it is.

 

When booking the cruise, I consider the cruise fare, taxes, fees and the gratuities all together as the total cost.

 

I want to enjoy my cruise, pay the automatic gratuities to feel confident that I did not screw any crew member to their agreed compensation/salary plan. I do not want to obsess over what crew members get paid, it is not my business, it is between them and the cruise line , the same way it is everywhere else.

 

 

Edited April 21 by Vibe

[time4u2go]

17 minutes ago, Vibe said:

The cruise line crew that work behind the scenes and those who work in positions that have directly contact with guests agree to their compensation based on the automatic gratuities that the guests pay.

When you pay the automatic gratuities you contribute to that salary plan that is acceptable to the crew when signing their employment contract.

 

I personally don’t like that method, I agree that it is a scam, however I pay the automatic gratuities because I feel that I contributed to every crew members agreed compensation and don’t want to disrupt it.

 

If a crew member goes over and above, I discreetly give them cash as a thank you.

 

The crew members are from areas of the world that does not have many opportunities, they work hard and are away from their families. We are so blessed that we can afford to cruise and have the time to cruise. The $18 per person per day is not going to break any of us. Most of us spend that amount of money on things that are not necessary. Why are some obsessing over this?
 

Keep this in mind:

• Part of the cruise fare is taxes and fees. We have no idea of the breakdown of where that money goes.
• The cruise line adds the gratuities on as a separate charge so that initial total cost seems lower, the same way hotels have resort fees, both practices are not ideal, but it is what it is.

 

When booking the cruise, I consider the cruise fare, taxes, fees and the gratuities all together as the total cost.

 

I want to enjoy my cruise, pay the automatic gratuities to feel confident that I did not screw any crew member to their agreed compensation/salary plan and relax and not worry what crew members get paid, it is not my business, it is between them and the company, the same way it is everywhere else.

They get paid their agreed-upon compensation whether people pay the automatic gratuity or not.

 

Edited April 21 by time4u2go

[Vibe]

Just now, time4u2go said:

They get paid their agreed-upon compensation whether or not people pay the automatic gratuity.

For each person that does not pay it reduces the amount they get paid from their share of the total gratuities collected.

[time4u2go]

Just now, Vibe said:

For each person that does not pay it reduces the amount they get paid from their share of the total gratuities collected.

What I said is still true. They get paid their agreed-upon compensation whether or not people pay the automatic gratuity.

[Vibe]

The total amount of gratuities collected for each cruise gets divided up and distributed to each crew member who is part of this program.
 

When people remove their gratuities, it reduces the total amount collected which results in a lesser amount for each crew member,

 

It is true they still get paid their agreed upon compensation, but a little less for each person who removes their gratuities.

[not-enough-cruising]

2 hours ago, Vibe said:

The cruise line crew that work behind the scenes and those who work in positions that have directly contact with guests agree to their compensation based on the automatic gratuities that the guests pay.

When you pay the automatic gratuities you contribute to that salary plan that is acceptable to the crew when signing their employment contract.

 

I personally don’t like that method, I agree that it is a scam, however I pay the automatic gratuities because I feel that I contributed to every crew members agreed compensation and don’t want to disrupt it.

 

If a crew member goes over and above, I discreetly give them cash as a thank you.

 

The crew members are from areas of the world that does not have many opportunities, they work hard and are away from their families. We are so blessed that we can afford to cruise and have the time to cruise. The $18 per person per day is not going to break any of us. Most of us spend that amount of money on things that are not necessary. Why are some obsessing over this?
 

Keep this in mind:

• Part of the cruise fare is taxes and fees. We have no idea of the breakdown of where that money goes.
• The cruise line adds the gratuities on as a separate charge so that initial total cost seems lower, the same way hotels have resort fees, both practices are not ideal, but it is what it is.

 

When booking the cruise, I consider the cruise fare, taxes, fees and the gratuities all together as the total cost.

 

I want to enjoy my cruise, pay the automatic gratuities to feel confident that I did not screw any crew member to their agreed compensation/salary plan. I do not want to obsess over what crew members get paid, it is not my business, it is between them and the cruise line , the same way it is everywhere else.

 

 

Your data surrounding the crews salary composition is completely false. 

[DennysDad]

10 hours ago, Hoopster95 said:

I repeat for the millionth time on this forum, Royal Caribbean calls this a "gratuity", however it is part of the the employees wages. Royal, under maritime law, pay their staff an incredibly low base salary... the employees are contracted to work at this "base" salary PLUS the contract stipulates that they earn portion of the tipping pool which makes up their total wages.

If the tipping pool does not reach a minimum amount, then Royal Caribbean has to pay the employee the shortfall under their contract.

 

Calling this a "gratuity" is a gross misrepresentation by the cruise lines. At very bare minimum, it should be called a "service fee" or "resort fee" like you have all over the United States in hotels or restaurants. More transparently and honestly, it should be included into the cruise fare up front.

This helps nothing. I paid a fare for the cruise. Saying gratuity is really someone's wage makes me care even less. I paid to board the ship. I'm not a business owner. These people's wages are not my responsibility or problem. Your argument above only proves the point even further that people should remove. Royal Caribbean pays wages, customers pay a fare. They have employees, we don't.

[DennysDad]

5 hours ago, Vibe said:

The cruise line crew that work behind the scenes and those who work in positions that have directly contact with guests agree to their compensation based on the automatic gratuities that the guests pay.

When you pay the automatic gratuities you contribute to that salary plan that is acceptable to the crew when signing their employment contract.

 

I personally don’t like that method, I agree that it is a scam, however I pay the automatic gratuities because I feel that I contributed to every crew members agreed compensation and don’t want to disrupt it.

 

If a crew member goes over and above, I discreetly give them cash as a thank you.

 

The crew members are from areas of the world that does not have many opportunities, they work hard and are away from their families. We are so blessed that we can afford to cruise and have the time to cruise. The $18 per person per day is not going to break any of us. Most of us spend that amount of money on things that are not necessary. Why are some obsessing over this?
 

Keep this in mind:

• Part of the cruise fare is taxes and fees. We have no idea of the breakdown of where that money goes.
• The cruise line adds the gratuities on as a separate charge so that initial total cost seems lower, the same way hotels have resort fees, both practices are not ideal, but it is what it is.

 

When booking the cruise, I consider the cruise fare, taxes, fees and the gratuities all together as the total cost.

 

I want to enjoy my cruise, pay the automatic gratuities to feel confident that I did not screw any crew member to their agreed compensation/salary plan. I do not want to obsess over what crew members get paid, it is not my business, it is between them and the cruise line , the same way it is everywhere else.

 

 

They agree to this arrangement. We don't. I was not there promising this to people who signed a work contract. That is there problem, not mine.

[uvadover]

15 hours ago, not-enough-cruising said:

That is the point EXACTLY, my intention is to provide a show of gratitude to ONLY the person I give it to. 
I couldn’t care less about the dishwasher or laundry personnel; again, those services are covered by my cruise fare. 

 

So the dishwasher is covered by your cruise fare, but not the guy who carries the plate to your table?  You seem to know everything, so are you privy to a compensation approach whereby the waiter is more reliant on tips than those in the kitchen?

[DennysDad]

34 minutes ago, uvadover said:

 

So the dishwasher is covered by your cruise fare, but not the guy who carries the plate to your table?  You seem to know everything, so are you privy to a compensation approach whereby the waiter is more reliant on tips than those in the kitchen?

(Speaking for someone else) I think the overall point is a gratuity is a tip. We tip those who we come in contact with, who directly provide us a service and provide it well. The back end people (dishwashers etc) should be paid by their employer out of profits from our cruise fare and are not our problem or our concern.

 

No amount of debate and/or especially guilt tripping is going to change this opinion. 

[Qextor]

On 4/20/2024 at 3:26 PM, jean87510 said:

An hourly wage is a salary, isn't it? Or am I missing something?  I had an hourly wage which I referred to as my salary.

A salary is earning, for example, $40000 per year.  It doesn't matter whether you work 40 or 60 hours a week, you still only get that 40K.  An hourly wage is based on how many hours you work.  More hours, more pay.  

[not-enough-cruising]

4 hours ago, uvadover said:

 

So the dishwasher is covered by your cruise fare, but not the guy who carries the plate to your table?  You seem to know everything, so are you privy to a compensation approach whereby the waiter is more reliant on tips than those in the kitchen?

Absolutely not. 
“Reliance” on tips is not something I judge. 
 

My fare covers a basic level of service. When someone goes above that level, then THEY get a little something extra. 
 

The next time the dishwasher makes a plate “extra clean” I’ll walk to the galley and give him a few bucks.