Is this a new Gratuities policy?

[LittleTinker]

31 minutes ago, SCX22 said:

 

 

 

The State of California is an exception.  Employers cannot use tips to satisfy hourly minimum wage requirements.  Waiters, for example, have to be paid the hourly minimum wage (at this time is $16.00 at the State level, but can be more depending on location; San Francisco's minimum wage is $18.67).  Any tips are really tips in excess of regular wages.

 

https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=LAB&sectionNum=351.

 

This is as it should be.....and thecrest of the country isn't going to make employers pay proper wages until everyone stops with the excess tipping.

[vjmatty]

5 hours ago, Retired-N-Happy said:

Haven't you ever heard of the expression...when in Rome?

 

So, if you're at a sit down restaurant in America and the bill comes in at $100.00 and the service is just OK, you'll leave nothing even though protocol states you should leave 15-20?  SMH

It all evens out because of people like me who still tip 15-20% even for crappy service. I’m not talking about rude or ignoring staff, they get less, or nothing. But for some reason I have a hard time with undertipping for incompetence, even with repeated instances in the same meal and even if it doesn’t seem like they’re very busy. 

[c-boy]

3 hours ago, LittleTinker said:

 

This is as it should be.....and thecrest of the country isn't going to make employers pay proper wages until everyone stops with the excess tipping.

I don't think the tipping culture here will be daunted by increases in hourly wages paid to staff working in the food and beverage industry.  

[Retired-N-Happy]

5 hours ago, LittleTinker said:

 

Sorry to disagree but 'blah' service gets $0

 

Its not really anything to do with culture.

Its to do with people here giving a tip as it should be given....for great service.

 

The clue is in the word 'tip'. It's not named 'make up my wages fee'.

 

 

Why are you so stubborn to shift your thought process when in a different culture and briefly adapt while on vacation?  It 100% deals with culture.  In the states, for the most part, it's the same exact situation with servers as it is in mainstream cruise lines.  The tips that they receive make up the bulk of their compensation.  

[Retired-N-Happy]

5 hours ago, vjmatty said:

It all evens out because of people like me who still tip 15-20% even for crappy service. I’m not talking about rude or ignoring staff, they get less, or nothing. But for some reason I have a hard time with undertipping for incompetence, even with repeated instances in the same meal and even if it doesn’t seem like they’re very busy. 

I'm the same exact way.  If it's crappy service, it'll be slightly adjusted, but normally I leave 20%, but I always factor it off of pretax dollars.

[ldubs]

7 hours ago, Retired-N-Happy said:

I fully understand.  It's how your culture is.  But it's 100% wrong to use your own culture's policy when you're vacationing in an area of the world whose tipping culture is different.

 

I realize that you have alligator arms when you receive blah service in the states, but that blah service deserves at the very minimum a 10% tip instead of the 0% you leave.

 

And of course refusing to follow local custom (at the waiter's expense) conveniently keeps money in the diner's pocket.  Not a good look.  

[paddingtonbear]

8 hours ago, Retired-N-Happy said:

I fully understand.  It's how your culture is.  But it's 100% wrong to use your own culture's policy when you're vacationing in an area of the world whose tipping culture is different.

 

If this is the case why do most Americans tip in Europe? Over tipping Americans have changed the culture in Europe so that tips are not only expected but asked for in some situations. 

 

It seems to me that those Americans don't tip for service they tip to make themselves feel better than. 

[ldubs]

56 minutes ago, paddingtonbear said:

If this is the case why do most Americans tip in Europe? Over tipping Americans have changed the culture in Europe so that tips are not only expected but asked for in some situations. 

 

They shouldn't.  Is Europe now a tipping culture?  In our experience they are solicited from American's in tourist areas.  But not otherwise.    We just say we are from Australia and they leave us alone.  🙂

  

[paddingtonbear]

44 minutes ago, ldubs said:

 

They shouldn't.  Is Europe now a tipping culture?  In our experience they are solicited from American's in tourist areas.  But not otherwise.    We just say we are from Australia and they leave us alone.  🙂

  

Yes, that is what we've found. But it is a pity that Americans have spread their culture to Europe.

 

Except in Croatia last year.  We hired a yacht and the skipper wanted us to tip the mooring guys before they did any work and even if they didn't do anything to moor us up for the night.  It was very much like a bribe rather than a tip. The skipper kept saying "the American's understand".  We tried to explain that the American's tipping culture is to make up for underpaid wages but they don't understand the nuances.

Edited July 10 by paddingtonbear

[LittleTinker]

5 hours ago, paddingtonbear said:

If this is the case why do most Americans tip in Europe? Over tipping Americans have changed the culture in Europe so that tips are not only expected but asked for in some situations. 

 

It seems to me that those Americans don't tip for service they tip to make themselves feel better than. 

Exactly.
Its getting ridiculous.

There is no need for Americans just file out of the bus and everyone tip the driver.

[TRLD]

16 hours ago, LittleTinker said:

No....not at all.
Many miserable servers here too....but tipping isnt expected for nothing here.
 

Of course in the UK the tip amount is included in the cost of the food and paid as salary, so as you put it that can be miserable without impact.

 

In the US, friendly or not, they are still doing the work, taking your order, delivering the food, yet there income is impacted because of how you interprete the system compared to how the system under they work is structured.

 

Almost seems like you are adding a requirement on a US worker to get your tip that you do not expect of a UK worker to.pay your bill.

 

Funny thing is in most of the non tipping counties one expects the staff to be professional  not friendly  yet your requirement for the tip is friendly.

Edited July 10 by TRLD

[Cruisemeister2002]

Come to the UK guys. Only a small group of workers get tips. Hairdressers, taxi drivers maybe, porters and sometimes restaurants. But many don't tip at all. I usually tip a waiter as I used to be one and know how poorly paid many are although our minimum wage is now a more health £11.44 per hour, which when put against the Old Age Pension currently aged 66 and rising to 67 then 68 is better as a 38 hour week would give a worker around £18,000 take home and the State or Old Age Pension is only, if on the full amount £11,500.

[Cruisemeister2002]

On 5/29/2024 at 11:41 AM, ecs66 said:

That's how we did it in "the olden days", back when we cruised on Sitmar (before Princess bought it out).  The wait staff, room stewards, etc., -- everyone, basically -- were top notch knowing that they'd be given "the envelope" at the end of the trip.  The cruise line even supplied the envelopes, IIRC.

I think the only problem, well two problems with tipping individuals is that firstly not all staff, even those not visible wouldn't get anything and I know for a fact that on previous cruises where we handed out envelopes to those we believe deserving of tips is that on the final night in the MDR many tables would be empty because people didn't turn up so they didn't have to tip. I am aware you can go to the purser and say you don't wish to pay the set amount or pay nothing. But obviously these Plus Packages do away with the need for tipping unless you wish to reward personally a member of staff. But if these gratuities are then paid as part of a wage you may have the problem that because all staff get them automatically they can give you a less than satisfactory service.

[ecs66]

26 minutes ago, Cruisemeister2002 said:

if these gratuities are then paid as part of a wage you may have the problem that because all staff get them automatically they can give you a less than satisfactory service.

Exactly.  There's no motivation for them to excel.  It was nice back in the day when they would kiss your (you know what), anticipating a big payout -- which they got (from us, anyhow).  Not all things change for the better, right?

[ldubs]

7 hours ago, paddingtonbear said:

Yes, that is what we've found. But it is a pity that Americans have spread their culture to Europe.

 

Except in Croatia last year.  We hired a yacht and the skipper wanted us to tip the mooring guys before they did any work and even if they didn't do anything to moor us up for the night.  It was very much like a bribe rather than a tip. The skipper kept saying "the American's understand".  We tried to explain that the American's tipping culture is to make up for underpaid wages but they don't understand the nuances.

 

Tips are part of paid wages.  Tips or not, no one makes less than the mandated minimum. The vast majority make well above the mandated minimum and would oppose any attempt to eliminate tipping.   

[Retired-N-Happy]

9 hours ago, paddingtonbear said:

If this is the case why do most Americans tip in Europe?

Possibly because they don't know any better and they mistakenly assumed the tipping protocol is similar to that in the states.

Overtipping by an American in Europe is certainly a better outcome than an European not tipping at all in the states which ends up with the server getting stiffed.

[MacMadame]

On 7/9/2024 at 7:20 AM, LittleTinker said:

So I asked Im not sure why Americans want to tip everyone. They are generally on a higher pay scale.

 

Why do Americans want to tip everyone? It's a combination of habit and guilt. It's necessary for a lot of service workers in the US and it's hard to turn off the brain telling you that not tipping is for cheapos and mean people. 😄 

 

13 hours ago, Retired-N-Happy said:

I'm the same exact way.  If it's crappy service, it'll be slightly adjusted, but normally I leave 20%, but I always factor it off of pretax dollars.

I also factor it off pre-tax dollars as I've been taught. But I wouldn't leave 20% for crappy service. 10-15% tops.

 

CA isn't the only state where servers make minimum wage regardless of tips, btw. The full list: 

• Alaska
• California
• Minnesota
• Montana
• Nevada
• Oregon
• Washington

Edited July 10 by MacMadame

[memoak]

2 minutes ago, MacMadame said:

 

Why do Americans want to tip everyone? It's a combination of habit and guilt. It's necessary for a lot of service workers in the US and it's hard to turn off the brain telling you that not tipping is for cheapos and mean people. 😄 

 

I also factor it off pre-tax dollars as I've been taught. But I wouldn't leave 20% for crappy service. 10-15% tops.

 

CA isn't the only state where servers make minimum wage regardless of tips, btw. The full list: 

• Alaska
• California
• Minnesota
• Montana
• Nevada
• Oregon
• Washington

Please note that Oregon does not have any state sales tax 

[TRLD]

6 hours ago, Cruisemeister2002 said:

I think the only problem, well two problems with tipping individuals is that firstly not all staff, even those not visible wouldn't get anything and I know for a fact that on previous cruises where we handed out envelopes to those we believe deserving of tips is that on the final night in the MDR many tables would be empty because people didn't turn up so they didn't have to tip. I am aware you can go to the purser and say you don't wish to pay the set amount or pay nothing. But obviously these Plus Packages do away with the need for tipping unless you wish to reward personally a member of staff. But if these gratuities are then paid as part of a wage you may have the problem that because all staff get them automatically they can give you a less than satisfactory service.

Except keep in mind that a staff member that does not deliver good service, particularly if they receive negative comments on an end of cruise survey will not get a new contract, might even be sent home early.

 

That is far more incentive to the crew then a few dollars handed to them.

 

While to many of us cruise line jobs are low pay, they are many multiples of an average wage in many of their home countries.  A friend of mine, a retired steward, put his daughter through medical school. His daughter, now a physician in the P.I. makes less money per year than his son, a steward on Princess.

 

The best way to reward a crew member is to take the time to recognize then on the end of cruise survey. 

[TRLD]

2 hours ago, memoak said:

Please note that Oregon does not have any state sales tax 

I do not know of any state where minimum wage is a living wage.

 

Do what California is doing, which is pushing restaurant worker wages up into the living wage range, and you start getting similar prices and reduction in staff similar to Australia. Many restaurants are switching to the model of ordering at the counter, getting a number and having the food brought out. 1 or 2 front house workers where their used to be full table service and 5 or 6 at any given time.

[TRLD]

2 hours ago, MacMadame said:

 

Why do Americans want to tip everyone? It's a combination of habit and guilt. It's necessary for a lot of service workers in the US and it's hard to turn off the brain telling you that not tipping is for cheapos and mean people. 😄 

 

I also factor it off pre-tax dollars as I've been taught. But I wouldn't leave 20% for crappy service. 10-15% tops.

 

CA isn't the only state where servers make minimum wage regardless of tips, btw. The full list: 

• Alaska
• California
• Minnesota
• Montana
• Nevada
• Oregon
• Washington

Guilt, nope not really.

 

More an understanding that it is the system. That labor prices for tipped positions (mostly full service restaurants) have historically been low and prices have been lower because of that. Take the tips away, increase wages, and the food prices rise so in the end pretty much the same amount is paid.

 

Tipping pretty much norm for full service restaurant workers, car valet, bell men that actually handle your luggage, shuttle bus drives that also put luggage on and off the shuttle, taxi drivers round up not much different than Europe, tour guides. 

 

That is about it though some may choose others. We give a Christmas bonus to our Gardiner but do not consider that to be a tip.

 

Many might pay from habit, but guilt not so much.

[MacMadame]

3 minutes ago, TRLD said:

More an understanding that it is the system.

I was replying to someone who wanted to know why we tip *everywhere* including places where it's not the system.

[rideev]

Why does tipping in American Restaurants based on a percentage of the ticket total?  Is it more difficult for the server to bring out Prime Rib vs. Chicken Strips?

[SCX22]

52 minutes ago, TRLD said:

Do what California is doing, which is pushing restaurant worker wages up into the living wage range, and you start getting similar prices and reduction in staff similar to Australia. Many restaurants are switching to the model of ordering at the counter, getting a number and having the food brought out. 1 or 2 front house workers where their used to be full table service and 5 or 6 at any given time.

 

That law has been in effect in California since 2001.  The recent cuts to staffing at full service restaurants is due to inflation and to keep costs down.  Food prices are still high as compared to pre-pandemic and restaurants can't keep raising prices to cover higher food costs without losing customers; if there are fewer and fewer customers profits dwindle, which eventually leads to closure. 

 

What's killing fast food restaurants in California as of recent is the newly mandated minimum wage of $20 for all fast food employees.  Fast food restaurant workers never relied on tips because they were never expected at these establishments.  (I personally never left a tip when eating at McDonald's or In-N-Out Burger and still don't.  Leaving a tip is actually frowned upon at In-N-Out because management believes that they pay they employees well.)  Owners/franchisees can't raise wages and maintain the same profits without raising prices.  Thus, many are fast food restaurants are cutting staff and resorting to self ordering POS systems.  Fast food restaurants rely on the low price, high volume model.  They can no longer keep the low price in the equation because of labor costs.

[Retired-N-Happy]

8 minutes ago, rideev said:

Why does tipping in American Restaurants based on a percentage of the ticket total?  Is it more difficult for the server to bring out Prime Rib vs. Chicken Strips?

It ties in to the cost because of the ambiance of the establishment as well.  You could have a place where the bill will be 75.00 for two versus 100.00 for two for the same exact items.  Solid service would be 15.00 versus 20.00 tip wise, based on a 20% gratuity.  It is what it is.  Over the past 20 years or so, the percentage has increased in general from 15-20%.  I usually give 20% based off of pre-tax dollars and if the service wasn't up to par, the tip would be reduced to 15% and if was really bad, would be 10%.