Rare BermudaBound2014 Posted July 8 #151 Share Posted July 8 (edited) 9 minutes ago, stevenr597 said: Hopefully this article should help to clear up any misunderstanding. Exploring Cruise Line Categories: From Mass-Market to Ultra-Luxury - Sophisticated Travel That article is nothing more than advertising, and it's obvious some people believe it since it it parroted frequently. Still waiting for you to give us something concrete that makes NCL Texas Road House and HOlland America Flemings lol.... PS: One doesn't need to look far to find Holland America lumped right into the other mass market lines... Edited July 8 by BermudaBound2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Catlover54 Posted July 8 #152 Share Posted July 8 6 minutes ago, stevenr597 said: Hopefully this article may help to clear up any "misunderstandings." Exploring Cruise Line Categories: From Mass-Market to Ultra-Luxury - Sophisticated Travel This actually creates more confusion, in that the author has opted to create his own categories' definitions (e.g., "entry level luxury" for what are typically considered "premium" lines, and the term "ultraluxury" for standard "luxury" lines). This is not surprising, as he could not even get the spelling of Silversea correct 🙂 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BermudaBound2014 Posted July 8 #153 Share Posted July 8 2 minutes ago, Catlover54 said: This actually creates more confusion, in that the author has opted to create his own categories' definitions (e.g., "entry level luxury" for what are typically considered "premium" lines, and the term "ultraluxury" for standard "luxury" lines). This is not surprising, as he could not even get the spelling of Silversea correct 🙂 Total fluff piece written by someone selling travel. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fortunate 2 travel Posted July 8 #154 Share Posted July 8 Wow. Did this thread go off course. The OP listed this as the difference between HAL and Princess. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BermudaBound2014 Posted July 8 #155 Share Posted July 8 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Fortunate 2 travel said: Wow. Did this thread go off course. The OP listed this as the difference between HAL and Princess. That happens when people post assumptions about how HAL compares to other lines. It's all part of a good discussion and I think that the topic of cruise line comparisons still fits in. I always like to read about experiences everyone has on other lines since I have zero brand loyalty. So far, no one is getting nasty :). Edited July 8 by BermudaBound2014 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRLD Posted July 9 #156 Share Posted July 9 (edited) If you go back 20 years Celebrity, Princess and HAL were using ships similar in size to what Premium ships are using today. They were all running classical cruise ship experience. Today all 3 are building and sailing ships above 2500. They have sold off their smaller ships as they have aged out of their target ship age range. Many of those smaller ships have gone to what are now Premium Lines. All three are now sailing ships that are larger than Royal, CCL and NCL sailed back when the Princess, Celebrity and HAL were sailing what is now Premium size ships. At this point all 3 have similar fare structures, fare levels, specialty dining, package offerings, excursions, dining options as do Carnival, Royal and NCl. About the only thing that separates them is the adult focus, and as a result of that focus an average ship size that is substantially above the Premium Lines, but still smaller than the family focused lines. Unfortunately the ship sizes are big enough to restrict the ports that they now visit (nolonger going to the smaller ports still visited by Premium and luxury lines), moving to more shorter repetitive itineraries because of those larger shio sizes. In many ways the Premium Lines characteristics have remained largely the same, but Celebrity, HAL and Princess have expanded their ship sizes out of that range and changed the cruise characteristics to attract sufficient passengers to fill those ships. In many ways a better value, and a good experience, just not Premium or luxury. Read a kind of funny article by the head of Celebrity saying that they should be considered to be luxury and that ship size should not matter. Those selling always want their customers to think that their product is more uo scale than it really is. Edited July 9 by TRLD 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackduck59 Posted July 9 #157 Share Posted July 9 (edited) Does anyone realize that doing a back and forth demanding someone "justify" their point of view just weakens your own argument? If you posted twice your point of view is known and the rest is just a back and forth of childish. Edited July 9 by Blackduck59 typo 3 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BermudaBound2014 Posted July 9 #158 Share Posted July 9 (edited) 24 minutes ago, Blackduck59 said: Does anyone realize that doing a back and forth demanding someone "justify" their point of view just weakens your own argument? If you posted twice your point of view is known and the rest is just a back and forth of childish. I come from a very long line of litigators; none of the lawyers in my family see it that way. I find friendly debate interesting (and it also reminds me of the kitchen table growing up) :). The way I was taught, you continue to ask for what it is you seek. The only argument that is weakened is when repeated requests (not demands) for evidence to support a claim continue to go ignored. Each time the request is ignored, the claim is weakened. And, sadly, I will beat that dead horse well into submission. It's in my blood. Perhaps childish, but for me it's a sporting event none-the-less. Thankyou for sharing your opinion 😉 Edited July 9 by BermudaBound2014 1 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Destiny0315 Posted July 9 #159 Share Posted July 9 4 hours ago, Fortunate 2 travel said: Wow. Did this thread go off course. The OP listed this as the difference between HAL and Princess. Well the OP hasn't been involved in this thread since he first started it on June 20 and ironically announced in a new thread on Sunday that he had just booked a HAL Zaandam cruise that's sailing in April of '26!! 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EtaC Posted July 9 #160 Share Posted July 9 So perhaps a comparison to Las Vegas casinos would be instructive. Having sailed on Carnival, Princess, NCL, and HAL and having made several visits to Vegas I think I can draw the following distinctions. Carnival: Similar to Excalibur, New York New York, or Planet Hollywood. Somewhat gaudy and over the top in decor. Lots of seemingly extraneous attractions (roller coasters, jousts, etc) that are meant to draw families with children. Somewhat cheaper in fare than other resorts. NCL: Flamingo, MGM Grand, perhaps Mandalay Bay. Somewhat more sedate in decor, still some attractions to draw families. HAL, Princess: Bellagio, Venetian, perhaps Cosmopolitan. More traditional and sophisticated in decor with a focus on art, and flowers. Attractions are more aimed at adults (music, dancing, some shows). Not hostile to families, but don't go out of the way to attract them. Azmara, Oceana, etc: Wynn, Fontainebleau, Aria. Highly sophisticated in atmosphere. Adult oriented. No attempt to appeal to families. So, my $.02 worth. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doone Posted July 9 #161 Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, EtaC said: So perhaps a comparison to Las Vegas casinos would be instructive. Having sailed on Carnival, Princess, NCL, and HAL and having made several visits to Vegas I think I can draw the following distinctions. Carnival: Similar to Excalibur, New York New York, or Planet Hollywood. Somewhat gaudy and over the top in decor. Lots of seemingly extraneous attractions (roller coasters, jousts, etc) that are meant to draw families with children. Somewhat cheaper in fare than other resorts. NCL: Flamingo, MGM Grand, perhaps Mandalay Bay. Somewhat more sedate in decor, still some attractions to draw families. HAL, Princess: Bellagio, Venetian, perhaps Cosmopolitan. More traditional and sophisticated in decor with a focus on art, and flowers. Attractions are more aimed at adults (music, dancing, some shows). Not hostile to families, but don't go out of the way to attract them. Azmara, Oceana, etc: Wynn, Fontainebleau, Aria. Highly sophisticated in atmosphere. Adult oriented. No attempt to appeal to families. So, my $.02 worth. Interesting comparison, I like it and agree with you.... 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNSJ Posted July 9 #162 Share Posted July 9 12 hours ago, Catlover54 said: the author has opted to create his own categories' definitions (e.g., "entry level luxury" for what are typically considered "premium" lines, and the term "ultraluxury" for standard "luxury" lines). I have my own two categories. "Within Budget" and "Exceeds Budget" . (Yes, I consider total cost and value) Then I pick from what's "Within Budget," that we like. It's like hotels, just because it's 4 star or 5 star doesn't mean it's always a better hotel than some 3 star hotels. 9 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare Catlover54 Posted July 9 #163 Share Posted July 9 4 hours ago, CNSJ said: I have my own two categories. "Within Budget" and "Exceeds Budget" . (Yes, I consider total cost and value) Then I pick from what's "Within Budget," that we like. It's like hotels, just because it's 4 star or 5 star doesn't mean it's always a better hotel than some 3 star hotels. 1. I agree that a "4 or 5 star" hotel may not be "better" *for me* than some 3 stars. When it comes to hotels, an elevator that works, AC that does the same, and a reasonably safe neighborhood are most important and non-negotiable for me (unfortunately this eliminates a lot of 3-star and even 4 and 5 star hotels in Europe). None of these issues are a problem on a cruise ship (usually there is a pretty safe neighborhood on all ships :). Then, in order of priority, comes a a bath tub (all else equal, I'll pick a 3 star with a tub over a 5 star without one), an in-room coffeemaker, a mini-fridge or mini-bar, and an 'open' feeling in my room (e.g., instead of looking at a wall, I'd rather look out at a parking lot in a hotel). If I'm driving, add easy parking to the list (not a problem on a cruise ship). In America, I'm quite comfy in a Hampton or Hilton Garden Inn Usually to get all my criteria (especially AC), this means at least a 4 star hotel in Europe. 2. But mainstream cruise lines can still meet all of these if I get a higher level cabin, usually a balcony and above. And when it comes to cruising, the "lower" rated relatively large HAL and Princess lines on average offer more bath tub opportunities (per diem spent) than the more modern small luxury ships (apparently as much as I love bath tubs, most "luxury" cruisers prefer big showers, so new construction has gone that route). Unfortunately I also hate standing in lines (I have trouble just standing a long time, even though I can walk a lot), and unfortunately when it comes to cruising, that is what can raise prices for me. I have enjoyed so much of my HAL cruises (I thought the food was more reliable and definitely more diverse than on all but one luxury line). But even in a HAL suite, I could not avoid long tender return lines, and lines at the bars in peak times (which is when I'm interested). So I'd like to ask those who have sailed in suites on both HAL and Princess (I have friends doing Princess, but am just starting to explore booking it for myself), if you're in a balcony or above, and in particular if you were in a suite, *on a full ship*, on which cruise company, HAL or Princess, did you stand in line more, e.g., for tender returns, bar drinks, excursions, and other venues? Or were they pretty much the same, give or take? Thanks in advance. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcrcruiser Posted July 9 Author #164 Share Posted July 9 13 hours ago, Destiny0315 said: Well the OP hasn't been involved in this thread since he first started it on June 20 and ironically announced in a new thread on Sunday that he had just booked a HAL Zaandam cruise that's sailing in April of '26!! I been around just did not wish to post . Yes I booked a 2026 cruise on Zaandam because we have to book early yo get a handicap state room . There are very few of them on ships today in comaparison to the need . On this Zaandam cruise we booked a Advantage price . I statred a new thread about Advantage fares las we were involved with loosing $500 deposit because no one told us it was not a fare we could cancel & get all our money back . Yes I hold both HAL & tyu the TA responsible . I just wonder how often people loose their deposit because HAQL or a TA decides not to tell the cistomer or I just forgot thing ! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare stevenr597 Posted July 9 #165 Share Posted July 9 22 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said: Sorry, can't let that lie. IMO that is a ridiculous comparison. Flemmings and Texas Roadhouse not only market differently, they are priced SIGNIFICANTLY different. Not the case when you compare HAL to NCL or Carnival. In fact, using your analogy, HAL could be aligned with texas roadhouse, as lately HAL often priced cheaper than NCL or Carnival. In terms of quality, overall there is just not much difference between NCL, Carnival, or Holland America. Using the steak house comparison you are suggesting there is a difference in the quality experience onboard. I have asked nicely (twice) for you to provide a concrete difference between the product offered. I took time to provide 5 specific examples where I believe a more 'upscale' experience is offered on both NCL and Carnival. Since you still want to to make the claim that HAL is a better product (which you did with the Flemmings comparison), it's only fair you provide the same evidence.. The only example you have given is that the people on HAL are more 'refined' (your words). I might agree with this somewhat, but would suggest that the refinement comes with age. HAL demographics are much older. The vast majority are in bed by 11 (the is ghost like by midnight). Don't get me wrong, I met some of the very best people on HAL, but generally the atmosphere is much calmer (read refined). That does not equate to upscale. Please provide a concrete example where the HAL experience on board is significantly better than NCL or CCL (other than fellow passengers). As mentioned, I took the time to provide 5 specific areas where NCL and CCL offered, to me, a more upscale experience. It's only fair you do the same. As Mel Brooks would say.....Whatever 🤣 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeffElizabeth Posted July 9 #166 Share Posted July 9 Anyone else notice the HA "suites" aren't really suites anymore? We have been booking Princess lately because they have more true suite options for cabins. This sometimes makes us choose Oceania too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare stevenr597 Posted July 9 #167 Share Posted July 9 18 hours ago, TRLD said: The article is more a sales piece than a reflection of how the industry is grouped by the analysts that follow the industry. It is similar to some of the puff pieces like cruise line marketing departments that like to put out claiming that they are premium or luxury. Stand by my comments and the article. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare stevenr597 Posted July 9 #168 Share Posted July 9 I do hope that this will add to the discussion. https://www.callingallports.com/blog/cruise-line-categories 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare stevenr597 Posted July 9 #169 Share Posted July 9 13 minutes ago, JeffElizabeth said: Anyone else notice the HA "suites" aren't really suites anymore? We have been booking Princess lately because they have more true suite options for cabins. This sometimes makes us choose Oceania too. We are currently booked in a Vista Suite on Nieuw Statendam. A good deal smaller than the Mini-Suite owe have booked on Sun Princess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BermudaBound2014 Posted July 9 #170 Share Posted July 9 (edited) 1 hour ago, stevenr597 said: I do hope that this will add to the discussion. https://www.callingallports.com/blog/cruise-line-categories Another fluff piece and this time written by a part time blogger lol. And here's an equally credible source (aka, not necessarily credible but at least this source is someone working in the industry.) Again, lumping HAL right into the pack of mainstream lines.... https://cruiseable.com/mainstream-cruise-ships Still waiting. Edited July 9 by BermudaBound2014 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rare BermudaBound2014 Posted July 9 #171 Share Posted July 9 2 hours ago, Catlover54 said: So I'd like to ask those who have sailed in suites on both HAL and Princess (I have friends doing Princess, but am just starting to explore booking it for myself), if you're in a balcony or above, and in particular if you were in a suite, *on a full ship*, on which cruise company, HAL or Princess, did you stand in line more, e.g., for tender returns, bar drinks, excursions, and other venues? Or were they pretty much the same, give or take? Thanks in advance. It's impossible to make blanket cruise line comparisons anymore since the ships within a fleet are wildly different. The smaller Zaandam and Coral Princess should have significantly fewer lines than the Pinnacle or Regal class. I think you will get much more relevant answers if you let us know which two ships you are comparing. Some ships on HAL and Princess have a very good space ratio, while others have space ratios worse than even the biggest ships sailing right now. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNSJ Posted July 9 #172 Share Posted July 9 1 hour ago, JeffElizabeth said: Anyone else notice the HA "suites" aren't really suites anymore? We have been booking Princess lately because they have more true suite options for cabins. This sometimes makes us choose Oceania too. I guess technically on HAL, only the Pinnacle Suite meets the true definition of a "suite." For a real suite I might argue you need one of those giant cabins on the Queen Mary 2, which they don't even call a suite... I think they use the term "duplex." After serving a few decades plus in the Navy on nuclear submarines, I can say that the worst inside cabin on a HAL ship is orders of magnitude more spacious and luxurious than even the Captain's Stateroom on submarine. Hat's off to my old shipmates still out there. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeh10641 Posted July 9 #173 Share Posted July 9 20 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said: That article is nothing more than advertising, and it's obvious some people believe it since it it parroted frequently. Still waiting for you to give us something concrete that makes NCL Texas Road House and HOlland America Flemings lol.... PS: One doesn't need to look far to find Holland America lumped right into the other mass market lines... That list says "mainstream" not "mass market". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CNSJ Posted July 9 #174 Share Posted July 9 19 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said: It's impossible to make blanket cruise line comparisons anymore since the ships within a fleet are wildly different. The smaller Zaandam and Coral Princess should have significantly fewer lines than the Pinnacle or Regal class. I think you will get much more relevant answers if you let us know which two ships you are comparing. Some ships on HAL and Princess have a very good space ratio, while others have space ratios worse than even the biggest ships sailing right now. The whole space ratio thing is bogus because it's based on volume to passengers. The ship's "space ratio" (by definition) is the enclosed space (measured in ft3/cubic feet) per passenger. Deck space in square feet to passengers is what counts. A grand six story atrium has six times the volume of a comparable space with one ten foot high interior. The big new ship from RCI, X, and NCL have tons of dead air space. Thats why some HAL ships appear to have lower space rations but seem less crowded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jeh10641 Posted July 9 #175 Share Posted July 9 15 hours ago, EtaC said: So perhaps a comparison to Las Vegas casinos would be instructive. Having sailed on Carnival, Princess, NCL, and HAL and having made several visits to Vegas I think I can draw the following distinctions. Carnival: Similar to Excalibur, New York New York, or Planet Hollywood. Somewhat gaudy and over the top in decor. Lots of seemingly extraneous attractions (roller coasters, jousts, etc) that are meant to draw families with children. Somewhat cheaper in fare than other resorts. NCL: Flamingo, MGM Grand, perhaps Mandalay Bay. Somewhat more sedate in decor, still some attractions to draw families. HAL, Princess: Bellagio, Venetian, perhaps Cosmopolitan. More traditional and sophisticated in decor with a focus on art, and flowers. Attractions are more aimed at adults (music, dancing, some shows). Not hostile to families, but don't go out of the way to attract them. Azmara, Oceana, etc: Wynn, Fontainebleau, Aria. Highly sophisticated in atmosphere. Adult oriented. No attempt to appeal to families. So, my $.02 worth. Great job of comparisons. We are going to Las Vegas in October and HAL in January to Hawaii. Jim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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