Just off the Magic - The Great, The Good and the Horrible - Serious Problems Onboard W/ Fighting & Kids

[nc762shooter]

1 hour ago, shandryl said:

Are you sure" 🤔 booze cruise happens on the more expensive = older, more well heeled and well traveled too! 😄 Some may call it a night and go to bed earlier or are in a group sitting at one of the many lounges 😂🎉 Sure the fights or arguments are more side eye stares and little less physical but they still happen. 🎉🎤🎉👏

I'd bet the hostility and intent are still there on most cruises, they just tend to be much less... kinetic.😁

[UPNYGuy]

1 hour ago, shandryl said:

Are you sure" 🤔 booze cruise happens on the more expensive = older, more well heeled and well traveled too! 😄 Some may call it a night and go to bed earlier or are in a group sitting at one of the many lounges 😂🎉 Sure the fights or arguments are more side eye stares and little less physical but they still happen. 🎉🎤🎉👏

Ohhh I am aware… see my above comment about HAL.🤣

[kangforpres]

8 hours ago, Ferry_Watcher said:

We really don't hear about fights on the Carnival Alaska bound cruise ships.  I wonder if that type of behavior is just on cruises heading towards warm climate destinations (maybe more drinking?), or is it that Alaska is more of a intentional cruise (bucket list type), that attracts a different clientele.  

Carnival Country is the South Eastern US, Not saying that is why the reports of violence on Cruise ships seems to disportionately in Carnival ships. Well Maybe I am. I'm 4 stars on HAL and have sailed Carnival twice, both long trans-pacifics one 23 days the other 31. Only heard some yelling and screaming behid closed cabin doors just once on those 2 cruises.

[PROCRUISE]

Read this whole topic and responses. 

Started out with CCL in 2002 and cruised 12 times with them before seeing little changes I did not want on my cruises, particularly some passenger behaviors. Changed to X and HAL for my next 28 cruises where the atmosphere and passenger behavior was completely different. Now booked for cruises 41 and 42 on HAL. Doesn't mean there couldn't be a problem with a passenger on board but these cruise lines don't have back alley "rumbles."

[sanger727]

I don't think Carnival's 15 drink a day limit is doing them any favors.  Any bartender should be trained to cut someone off when they are too inebriated.  I think a drink limit is a bit like a speed limit.  In your mind you are paying for 15 drinks a day so that turns into a goal to be hit. 

Edited September 2 by sanger727

[jimbo5544]

3 hours ago, sanger727 said:

I don't think Carnival's 15 drink a day limit is doing them any favors.  Any bartender should be trained to cut someone off when they are too inebriated.  I think a drink limit is a bit like a speed limit.  In your mind you are paying for 15 drinks a day so that turns into a goal to be hit. 

OK, so what should it be?  How would they do that?  Does any other line do it differently?  I would agree that there is an entitlement issue, but mandating a lower amount or a bartender unilaterally enforcing something.  Just simply not tenable.

[sanger727]

14 hours ago, jimbo5544 said:

OK, so what should it be?  How would they do that?  Does any other line do it differently?  I would agree that there is an entitlement issue, but mandating a lower amount or a bartender unilaterally enforcing something.  Just simply not tenable.

Yes, other lines offer an unlimited drinks package.  No terms and conditions about max number per day.  I'd be interested in seeing data of how many drinks per day on average is served per cheers customer vs unlimited packages.  I'm willing to bet that unlimited is lower.

 

Bartenders cutting people off should be unrelated to the number of drinks they have ordered.  If you are standing up straight and not slurring your words, why not serve a 16th drink.  If someone is falling over themselves and incoherent after 9 drinks - they should not serve a 10th.  On land, anyone who serves alcohol receives training on when to cut people off.  If someone gets trashed in a bar and then drives home and gets in an accident; the bar faces liability for overserving.

[StephPS79]

On 9/1/2024 at 9:02 PM, kangforpres said:

Carnival Country is the South Eastern US, Not saying that is why the reports of violence on Cruise ships seems to disportionately in Carnival ships. Well Maybe I am. 

 

So what actually are you saying?

[pohlerbear]

The DOT has stats for crimes on cruise ships going back to 2010. Looking quickly at agg assaults, there do seem to me more incidents recently. But I wonder if its more being reported or caught (ie because of increased security measures/ cameras) or because there are more incidents happening. I wonder how everyone having cell phones to record the incidents plays into the incidents being more known. 

[PrincessArlena'sDad]

1 hour ago, pohlerbear said:

The DOT has stats for crimes on cruise ships going back to 2010. Looking quickly at agg assaults, there do seem to me more incidents recently. But I wonder if its more being reported or caught (ie because of increased security measures/ cameras) or because there are more incidents happening. I wonder how everyone having cell phones to record the incidents plays into the incidents being more known. 

Also, more ships and bigger ships, so more people cruising.

 

According to statista:

2010: 19.1 million

2019: 29.7 million

2023: 31.7 million

 

[Z0nker]

On 9/1/2024 at 9:21 AM, Ferry_Watcher said:

We really don't hear about fights on the Carnival Alaska bound cruise ships.  I wonder if that type of behavior is just on cruises heading towards warm climate destinations (maybe more drinking?), or is it that Alaska is more of a intentional cruise (bucket list type), that attracts a different clientele.  

Alaska is more expensive, so that could be a factor. Also longer.

[ahahn078]

On 9/1/2024 at 12:21 PM, Ferry_Watcher said:

We really don't hear about fights on the Carnival Alaska bound cruise ships.  I wonder if that type of behavior is just on cruises heading towards warm climate destinations (maybe more drinking?), or is it that Alaska is more of a intentional cruise (bucket list type), that attracts a different clientele.  

 

54 minutes ago, Z0nker said:

Alaska is more expensive, so that could be a factor. Also longer.

 

Adding to this, when I was on a 9 day Canadian/New England cruise last October, we didn't see and hear any rowdy behavior at all. I guess longer durations AND cooler/colder destinations come into play.

[jimbo5544]

5 hours ago, sanger727 said:

Yes, other lines offer an unlimited drinks package.  No terms and conditions about max number per day.  I'd be interested in seeing data of how many drinks per day on average is served per cheers customer vs unlimited packages.  I'm willing to bet that unlimited is lower.

 

Bartenders cutting people off should be unrelated to the number of drinks they have ordered.  If you are standing up straight and not slurring your words, why not serve a 16th drink.  If someone is falling over themselves and incoherent after 9 drinks - they should not serve a 10th.  On land, anyone who serves alcohol receives training on when to cut people off.  If someone gets trashed in a bar and then drives home and gets in an accident; the bar faces liability for overserving.

I have no insight data on this, but would be shocked if unlimited (cheers) has lower capacity.  We are ranging far off topic here, but will reply in kind to your post.  There are WAY more drunks on land than at sea (proportionally), not even close.  They are just more evident in the limited space of a cruise ship.  I can guarantee regardless of whether training is received (either sea or land) people get served when inebriated (in all cases).  The stats backing this up are OVERWHELMING.  I would also wager that the bars getting cited (not really sure what "responsibility" means) for drunks (other than fatalities or serious accidents) is minimal at best.  Literally thousands (maybe 10's of thousands) of drunks get ways with it the VAST majority of time.

 

The real issue is (in the case of Carnival, for our discussion) can they decide when someone has had enough?  The obvious ones are the stumbling drunks, the VAST majority, not so much.  Who decides?  How to enforce?  Breathalyzer every drink after 4?  It simply does not work. 

[aborgman]

9 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

 There are WAY more drunks on land than at sea (proportionally), not even close. 

 

The numbers really, really don't support that.

 

There are definitely more drunks on land IN TOTAL... but there definitely aren't proportionally more drunks.

 

The average in the USA overall for adults is about 2.5 drinks per day.

The average on cruise ships - depending on year - is in the 5-7 drinks per adult per day.

 

So the average cruise ship consumes 2-3x as much per person as the US adult public as a whole.

 

[jimbo5544]

1 hour ago, ahahn078 said:

 

 

Adding to this, when I was on a 9 day Canadian/New England cruise last October, we didn't see and hear any rowdy behavior at all. I guess longer durations AND cooler/colder destinations come into play.

Clientele is different, I doubt the temp comes into play.

[aborgman]

16 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

 

The real issue is (in the case of Carnival, for our discussion) can they decide when someone has had enough? 

 

Yes... and they don't even need any reason to do so.

 

If they decide you are intoxicated - that's it. They don't have to prove it. You have no legal recourse. They can just stop serving you at basically any time, for any reason - and legally, you can do nothing at all about it.

 

 

[jimbo5544]

Just now, aborgman said:

 

Yes... and they don't even need any reason to do so.

 

If they decide you are intoxicated - that's it. They don't have to prove it. You have no legal recourse. They can just stop serving you at basically any time, for any reason - and legally, you can do nothing at all about it.

 

 

Agree with all of that.  The real question is would they?  

[aborgman]

1 minute ago, jimbo5544 said:

Agree with all of that.  The real question is would they?  

 

Well, yes... there ARE people who have been cut off for being intoxicated on Carnival ships.

 

[CruzinCpl20]

On 8/29/2024 at 12:49 AM, KarmaCruisers said:

Maybe everyone SHOULDN’T be welcome.

Seriously?!?! I truly hope you didn’t think before you posted this and that you mean every behavior isn’t welcomed. Meaning, aggressive or rude behavior. 

[nc762shooter]

39 minutes ago, aborgman said:

 

The numbers really, really don't support that.

 

There are definitely more drunks on land IN TOTAL... but there definitely aren't proportionally more drunks.

 

The average in the USA overall for adults is about 2.5 drinks per day.

The average on cruise ships - depending on year - is in the 5-7 drinks per adult per day.

 

So the average cruise ship consumes 2-3x as much per person as the US adult public as a whole.

 

Except on a cruise ship excluding the crew (unless they are also factored into the average) everyone drinking is on vacation. On land, not so much. Not even close to a fair comparison.

[nc762shooter]

47 minutes ago, jimbo5544 said:

Agree with all of that.  The real question is would they?  

Very rarely, although each time I've witnessed it was because the person was belligerent and generally making an ass of themselves. 

[VentureMan_2000]

1 hour ago, jimbo5544 said:

Agree with all of that.  The real question is would they?  

Yes, I've witnessed it.  The bartender said no drink to this drunk guy and proceeded to hand him a large bottle of water and told him to drink it... which passenger proceeded to do.  Good for the passenger to take the bartender's advice as opposed to getting belligerent.      

[jimbo5544]

31 minutes ago, nc762shooter said:

Very rarely, although each time I've witnessed it was because the person was belligerent and generally making an ass of themselves. 

That is my point.  It is a catch 22.  

[jimbo5544]

Just now, VentureMan_2000 said:

Yes, I've witnessed it.  The bartender said no drink to this drunk guy and proceeded to hand him a large bottle of water and told him to drink it... which passenger proceeded to do.  Good for the passenger to take the bartender's advice as opposed to getting belligerent.      

I do not take issue with them doing it.  What I was responding to was when it comes down to judgement.  There is also the issue of entitlement (I paid for 15, I want my 15).  

[aborgman]

47 minutes ago, nc762shooter said:

Except on a cruise ship excluding the crew (unless they are also factored into the average) everyone drinking is on vacation. On land, not so much. Not even close to a fair comparison.

 

The proportion of people drinking is the proportion of people drinking. The motivation or acceptability has no effect on the numbers.