Volendam 8 million dollar docking period October 2024

[HappyInVan]

14 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

The Viking Sky was a human error, and as you say, it can happen to a new ship or old, this case had nothing to do with the ship's age, you are arguing against yourself here.

 

 

I wouldn't criticize the Captain. Anyone can be wise after the fact. But, few are capable of managing risk and making command decisions.

 

Fact is that there were vessels at sea that day trying to meet their schedule...

 

“According to pilot(s) on board, the weather was well within the operational capability of the ship... Around 19:00, two helicopters were diverted to rescue the crew of the cargo ship Hagland Captain,[39][40] which had been going to the aid of Viking Sky and also suffered an engine failure.[41][42] The Hagland crew bailed into the sea and were picked up by helicopters in the dark..."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Viking_Sky

 

What the Sky's captain couldn't know was that the engine's lubrication system would fail. That the oil pressure alarm would fail. That the engineers failed to detect the problems before the engine was damaged. Resulting in a delay of 18 hours before the engines could be restarted.

 

That's why hybrid engine systems is a good thing on expedition ships. On the Hx Roald Amundsen, the Captain mentioned that the ship could only run on battery power for just 25 minutes. However, most of the energy consumption comes from hotel operations. I take that to mean that the ship could maneuver for some time if power was cut to non-essential systems. Redundancy is always good.

[TRLD]

7 hours ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

It seems to me that other lines are investing more to update their ships with a more modern feel. 
 

As mentioned, I sailed Connie in 2023 and she received many of the soft furnishings planned for 2021. The ship looked Great on the inside unlike current photos I’m seeing of the V which look quite dated. I’m astonished that Celebrity is investing ANOTHER 50 Million in renovation as that ship was crisp and modern already. 

 

I’d rather sail on a ship with new and modern decor (especially redoing the bathrooms on V which look quite long in the tooth).  But, at this time, I’m more concerned with itinerary than decor, so wouldn’t rule V out even though she appears to need much more than just carpeting. 

They ae changing all of the venues and look and feel. Basically they are Apexing the ship. The money is to givw the line the same look and feel as the Apex class ships with th3 same venues. With HAL the Rotterdam was built withba similar look and feel as the older ships. 

 

One may or may not like the interior design of the HAL ships, but they do not change much from ship to ship.  

 

With Celebrity they have had fairly large changes from ship class to ship class in style and venues. 

 

CCL owned lines tend not to do such.

Edited yesterday at 08:37 AM by TRLD

[chengkp75]

7 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

I wouldn't criticize the Captain. Anyone can be wise after the fact. But, few are capable of managing risk and making command decisions.

I was not criticizing the Captain, the fault falls on the engineers, especially the Chief who formulates engineering procedures onboard.

 

8 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

That the engineers failed to detect the problems before the engine was damaged.

From my reading of the official investigation report, I don't recall (and I don't feel like digging it out again), that the engines were damaged, it was just that without main power, the pumps to refill the engines with oil could not be run.

 

8 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

That's why hybrid engine systems is a good thing on expedition ships. On the Hx Roald Amundsen, the Captain mentioned that the ship could only run on battery power for just 25 minutes. However, most of the energy consumption comes from hotel operations. I take that to mean that the ship could maneuver for some time if power was cut to non-essential systems. Redundancy is always good.

You take it wrong.  Propulsion is a much larger power draw than hotel load, and that 25 minutes would be for operating at very low propulsion levels while cruising in a fjord.  In a storm, that amount of power would be used up in minutes.  The hybrid feature of the Amundsen is for one thing, zero emissions while sightseeing in a restricted fjord, not redundancy.  The fact that the system only provides less than a half hour of power shows that the systems are still in their infancy, and not ready to scale up to cruise ships.

[TRLD]

11 hours ago, HappyInVan said:

 

I wouldn't criticize the Captain. Anyone can be wise after the fact. But, few are capable of managing risk and making command decisions.

 

Fact is that there were vessels at sea that day trying to meet their schedule...

 

“According to pilot(s) on board, the weather was well within the operational capability of the ship... Around 19:00, two helicopters were diverted to rescue the crew of the cargo ship Hagland Captain,[39][40] which had been going to the aid of Viking Sky and also suffered an engine failure.[41][42] The Hagland crew bailed into the sea and were picked up by helicopters in the dark..."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MV_Viking_Sky

 

What the Sky's captain couldn't know was that the engine's lubrication system would fail. That the oil pressure alarm would fail. That the engineers failed to detect the problems before the engine was damaged. Resulting in a delay of 18 hours before the engines could be restarted.

 

That's why hybrid engine systems is a good thing on expedition ships. On the Hx Roald Amundsen, the Captain mentioned that the ship could only run on battery power for just 25 minutes. However, most of the energy consumption comes from hotel operations. I take that to mean that the ship could maneuver for some time if power was cut to non-essential systems. Redundancy is always good.

The problems with the sky were largely because it was a new ship, where the alarms were poorly designed, procedures were not properly developed,  and the crew had not trained for a blackout situation with no emergency generator available. Thus the human error finding.

 

It turns out that one of the generators was offline when the ship left its previous port and it lacked sufficient redundency. The findings indicated that it should not have been sailing. That generator being out meant that it was a total power failure without emergency generator which is a far more difficult situation then a total power failure with emergency generator available.

 

In the end the crisis was the result of it being a new ship with systems that had issues, faced with weather that brought those issue into light. Far less likely that the problem will occur again because the procedures and alarm systems have been changed. Minimum oil levels are now higher, the crew is now trained on total power loss without emergency generator.

 

Another case of latest and greatest turning into bleeding edge, instead of leading edge.

Edited yesterday at 12:50 PM by TRLD

[HappyInVan]

17 hours ago, *Miss G* said:

 

Kind of six of one; half dozen of the other when you think about it, though. They were probably relying on future revenue to recoup the investment.

 

That is correct. New investments are always funded on the basis of anticipated revenues. The $100m spent on Sky is petty cash compared to the billions spent on the new LNG titans. There will always be money for the business plans which spell PROFIT.

 

So, the small amount of HAL investments says something about management's view of the future. 🫢

 

[TRLD]

1 hour ago, HappyInVan said:

 

That is correct. New investments are always funded on the basis of anticipated revenues. The $100m spent on Sky is petty cash compared to the billions spent on the new LNG titans. There will always be money for the business plans which spell PROFIT.

 

So, the small amount of HAL investments says something about management's view of the future. 🫢

 

Not quite  The scale of the investment is consistent of a refresh of existing decor, and other required maintenance because a complete remodeling is not needed.

 

To put it simply what NCL and celebrity is doing is the equivalent of a major home remodel, moving walls, changing kitchen and baths, full redecoration to different schema.

 

HAL is doing the equivalent of recarpeting a room with touch ups where needed. Basically the same room, same decor after.

 

Have not seen a CCL owned line ever do a massive remodel such as what Celebrity is doing with their revolutionary program or NCL did with the Spirit. Even when ships were transfered the remodeling was kept to a minimum such as the Costa ships transfered to Carnival or the Princess ships to P&O Australia.

 

That fits in that RCL lines tend to be more creative, while CCL lines tend to focus on value.

 

That means with RCL owned lines more changes between ship classes, and more need for the older ships to be remodeled to keep consistency across the brand.

 

CCL lines like Princess, HAL, Cunard are  very similar from one ship class to the next.   The Sun Princess being the first one where there are fairly major changes in a new ship class 

Edited yesterday at 04:21 PM by TRLD

[howiefrommd]

22 hours ago, TRLD said:

Funny thing is that when you look at the revenue per fleet capacity HALs numbers in revenue dollars per bunk (100% capacity) HALs is better than Princess and within a few dollars of Celebrity.  That would indicate that HAL making very good use of its capacity. With good revenue yield for each bunk.

 

 So really not more wacky deals than others.

 

Currently on P&O Iona so do not have my notes from when I ran the calculations a couple of months ago, but the exact numbers are were posted in a stream then 

I must tell a funny story.  A while back (when still in active clinical practice) had a consult on a recently retired CEO of a fortune 50 (not 500) company.  Just so happened a well known fiction author happened to be in the clinic waiting room.  The CEO said to me acknowledging who he saw in he waiting area, if you want to see creative fiction read a stockholder quarterly report, 10K or 10Q.

 

Other than the 100 shares of CCL (which I have for obvious reasons) I would have zero interest investing in the future of any of the cruiselines. Time will tell how all this will shake out. 

 

 

[TRLD]

14 minutes ago, howiefrommd said:

I must tell a funny story.  A while back (when still in active clinical practice) had a consult on a recently retired CEO of a fortune 50 (not 500) company.  Just so happened a well known fiction author happened to be in the clinic waiting room.  The CEO said to me acknowledging who he saw in he waiting area, if you want to see creative fiction read a stockholder quarterly report, 10K or 10Q.

 

Other than the 100 shares of CCL (which I have for obvious reasons) I would have zero interest investing in the future of any of the cruiselines. Time will tell how all this will shake out. 

 

 

Yes and No. A company can spin the text, a lot of which is legal boiler plate. Spent enough time writing/reviewing secrions of 10q/10k filings prior to submission.

 

A bit more difficult to spin the numbers, which are audited. Companies have done so for periods of time, but sooner or later it falls apart. Most companies would not mess with the numbers because it is a very poor risk/benefit.  The companies thst do so tend to be outright frauds.

 

The only thing i am using in that comparison from the sec filings is the published fleet capacity numbers. The revenue numbers come from cruisemarketwatch. Individual brand revenue numbers are not broken out in the sec filings.

 

Cruise lines are a lot like another low margin, high capital business, airlines. As a previous CEO of American airlines once said, great business to be in, not necessarily a great investment.

Edited yesterday at 09:20 PM by TRLD

[BermudaBound2014]

The Volendam (and Zaandam) still have some cabins with shower curtains. Those went out of style a decade ago.
 

I’d think, at a very minimum, updating the shower curtain situation would be a priority. Renovations can provided consistency and give ships a more modern feel by addressing   features are that are clearly outdated. 
 

Maybe the 8 million is addressing all the outdated features on Volendam. It doesn’t seem like enough money to me but what do I know?

 

Time will tell :). 

 

 

 

 

Edited yesterday at 11:13 PM by BermudaBound2014

[TRLD]

5 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

The Volendam (and Zaandam) still have some cabins with shower curtains. Those went out of style a decade ago.
 

I’d think, at a very minimum, updating the shower curtain situation would be a priority. Renovations can provided consistency and give ships a more modern feel by addressing   features are that are clearly outdated. 
 

Maybe the 8 million is addressing all the outdated features on Volendam. It doesn’t seem like enough money to me but what do I know?

 

Time will tell :). 

 

 

 

 

As i mentioned CCL owned brands refurbish, not remodel. For example Princess ships except Sun use shower curtains. Expect them to remain that way as long as they are in service with Princess.  Expect the same with HAL. It will keep the same style it was built with. Any remodeling will be at the individual venue level such as the changes to crows nest a few years ago.

 

 

[CruiserBruce]

Did Miss Manners or Dear Abby say shower curtains went out of style? I know A TON of hotels that are out of date, including the 5 star hotel, built in 2018, we stayed in the first 9 days of this month.. Heck, my own guest bathroom is obviously out of date.

[richwmn]

20 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

The Volendam (and Zaandam) still have some cabins with shower curtains. Those went out of style a decade ago.

I am on Westerdam right now and my cabin has a shower curtain. Who is the authority that makes them 'out of style'?? Probably contractors that wish to make a ton of money 'upgrading' bathrooms.

 

 

[BermudaBound2014]

1 hour ago, richwmn said:

I am on Westerdam right now and my cabin has a shower curtain. Who is the authority that makes them 'out of style'?? Probably contractors that wish to make a ton of money 'upgrading' bathrooms.

 

 

There are a number of people who absolutely refuse to sail in a cabin with a shower curtain. Obviously much different than a hotel or spare bath in a home due to size. It’s discussed on numerous forums often enough and I know at least one person who opted out of a HaL cruise due to the shower curtain situation claiming hygiene as the reason. I mean they are kinda yuck if they attack you in the shower. I would much prefer a shower door but maybe I’m in the minority on the HAL forum 😉 

[CruiserBruce]

13 minutes ago, BermudaBound2014 said:

There are a number of people who absolutely refuse to sail in a cabin with a shower curtain. Obviously much different than a hotel or spare bath in a home due to size. It’s discussed on numerous forums often enough and I know at least one person who opted out of a HaL cruise due to the shower curtain situation claiming hygiene as the reason. I mean they are kinda yuck if they attack you in the shower. I would much prefer a shower door but maybe I’m in the minority on the HAL forum 😉 

Totally subjective topic, that doesn't say one way or another whether HAL is modern, up to date or not. Absolutely no factual proof of anything...just personal preferences. There is a significant difference.

[BermudaBound2014]

Of course. Whether or not the Volendam is in good shape currently is totally subjective. Some folks seem to love the V as she is. Different strokes. I view current video and see a very dated ship. I read problems of septic, lanai doors not closing, tiles missing, etc and I’m just not excited to select this ship; although I wouldn’t rule her out based on itinerary and price. 

 

I do hope that an 8 million investment is enough to fix some of the issues these older cruise ships report. 

[Baybari]

We just got off the Volendam Saturday and it definitely needs a lot of work.

Our cabin on the first floor (Dolphin Deck) smelled like a thousand people had lived there and it was bad. ( I’m sure that it has been literally a thousand) At least with a balcony, you can get some fresh air through the room. 
The room thermostat didn’t work and even though we complained, no response. 

The walls were greasy and I don’t know why but so was the underside of any metal in the room. (Lamps, etc)

The pillows all need to be sacrificed to the pillow gods…oh wait …they wouldn’t want them either.

The staff just seemed tired and worn out.  They were all nice but seemed exhausted.

The food and the staff in the Pinnacle were amazing. It was reminiscent of how cruising used to be. High in quality with a bit of sparkle.  Not so the food in the Lido… meat was consistently tough. Omelettes were the best, though.

 

We do like the smaller ships but really missed the BBKing venue. 
 

So all in all, I hope this dry dock makes a old girl seem a bit more fresh…maybe more than just a swipe and a lick.
 

[Btimmer]

We've been on the Volendam for hundreds of days over the years, many of those with the HGM Florin. It would be our preferred ship. We're booked on the 42 day cruise to Egypt in November just after the drydock and are very much looking forward to our inside cabin with new carpet and USB ports and whatever other changes there are.  And as always, I'll be doing one of my "Btimmer's Almost Live" threads.  Feel free to ask questions or request pictures for anything of interest.  And, yes, Florin will be our HGM. 

[rodndonna]

10 hours ago, Baybari said:

We just got off the Volendam Saturday and it definitely needs a lot of work.

Our cabin on the first floor (Dolphin Deck) smelled like a thousand people had lived there and it was bad. ( I’m sure that it has been literally a thousand) At least with a balcony, you can get some fresh air through the room. 
The room thermostat didn’t work and even though we complained, no response. 

The walls were greasy and I don’t know why but so was the underside of any metal in the room. (Lamps, etc)

The pillows all need to be sacrificed to the pillow gods…oh wait …they wouldn’t want them either.

The staff just seemed tired and worn out.  They were all nice but seemed exhausted.

The food and the staff in the Pinnacle were amazing. It was reminiscent of how cruising used to be. High in quality with a bit of sparkle.  Not so the food in the Lido… meat was consistently tough. Omelettes were the best, though.

 

We do like the smaller ships but really missed the BBKing venue. 
 

So all in all, I hope this dry dock makes a old girl seem a bit more fresh…maybe more than just a swipe and a lick.
 

 

Yikes - we're boarding Saturday and staying in an inside on Dolphin deck. (i'm afraid to ask your room number )

Will be prepared for the worst but make the most of it!

[Baybari]

We had a window so you won’t have our room.  Hopefully, your room will be fine. Have a great cruse and enjoy Caroline at the 4th floor Main Dining Room Desk.

[HappyInVan]

11 hours ago, Baybari said:

We just got off the Volendam Saturday and it definitely needs a lot of work.

Our cabin on the first floor (Dolphin Deck) smelled like a thousand people had lived there and it was bad. ( I’m sure that it has been literally a thousand) At least with a balcony, you can get some fresh air through the room. 
The room thermostat didn’t work and even though we complained, no response. 

The walls were greasy and I don’t know why but so was the underside of any metal in the room. (Lamps, etc)...

 

Good report. This is an indication of how far HAL has allowed itself to fall. Its not just the lower decks. My Vista suite also needed wall to wall refit.

 

The problem with old hotels and ships is that the problems are unpredictable. Some rooms have this problem  and some have other problems. 

 

Meanwhile,  some people  think that the V is perfect  as it is. Fortunately,  I have alternatives. 🙄

[rodndonna]

8 minutes ago, HappyInVan said:

 

 

Meanwhile,  some people  think that the V is perfect  as it is. Fortunately,  I have alternatives. 🙄

 

Not sure what that means?

Do you have "alternatives" that are somehow not available to the rest of us?