Muster drill

[paddingtonbear]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

As I've said many times, the "talk" during the muster drill is mainly filler.  While folks think that nothing is going on while waiting for everyone to get there, and for the "talk" to be made, far more crew than you see at the muster stations are actively completing the muster.  That means that crew are searching every cabin to ensure it is empty, searching every public venue to ensure it is empty, reporting status back to the deck leaders, and then sweeping everybody down the stairs to the embarkation level.  That is when muster is complete.  Along with the lack of practice with actual crowds going to muster, the searching of the ship while it is empty for muster is another portion of the training that has gone out the window.  While I applaud the requirement for bi-annual physical muster drills, this can leave some crew going home with never having practiced this their entire tour.

They have to do this for everyone who hasn’t done their video muster drill. I read that the ship can’t depart before every passenger onboard has completed the video. 

[XBGuy]

I am a big rule follower.  I remember one muster drill in the 1990s where we were standing near the lifeboats with our vests on.  There were some people chatting in the back of the group.  A very grizzled-looking sailor made his way through the group, stuck his finger in the face of one of the talkers and said something to the effect, "Shut up.  Pay attention.  This could save your life."

 

I agree that the muster drills in the public venues were much easier, but, again, as a rule follower, it bothered me that when people were told to move down to the lower seats in the Princess Theater, many would take the attitude, "Screw you.  I'm going to sit at the end of this aisle in the back so that I can be first out and resume the consumption of the 15 drinks that I paid for with the drinks package."

 

The irony of this, of course, is that once the formal presentation started, one of the directions that was stressed was the importance of "obeying the direction of ship's personnel."

 

Personally. I would have appreciated it if people who refused to follow directions during the muster drill were immediately escorted out of the the room by security, lectured sternly, and, then, be allowed to attend a "make up" muster drill.

[commodoredave]

2 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

I seriously hope you never have to rely on that "nanny state at sea" mentality to save your life.  Maybe we should just forget the crew training, and eliminate their responsibilities in emergencies, and let all the "grown ups" who don't need nannies deal with emergencies.

I’ve been sailing boats for more than 40 years and know more about safety and rescue at sea than 95% of the crew. So while I have no need of the nanny state at sea, I do realize that others including you may do so. I’m not interested in talking away your enjoyment of the muster drill- simply stating that there are people like me who don’t need it. 

[Colorado Coasty]

Isn't it interesting that when something is required of a person it brings out the worst in them.

[chengkp75]

49 minutes ago, commodoredave said:

I’ve been sailing boats for more than 40 years and know more about safety and rescue at sea than 95% of the crew. So while I have no need of the nanny state at sea, I do realize that others including you may do so. I’m not interested in talking away your enjoyment of the muster drill- simply stating that there are people like me who don’t need it. 

And I've spent 46 years on ships training and drilling crew (and passengers) and actively dealing with shipboard emergencies as the senior on-scene commander, and I know a whole lot about safety and rescue at sea, and the value of realistic training.  I probably "don't need" any more training, after several thousand repetitions, but you want to know something funny?  I keep learning something new every time.

[memoak]

2 hours ago, paddingtonbear said:

They have to do this for everyone who hasn’t done their video muster drill. I read that the ship can’t depart before every passenger onboard has completed the video. 

The ship will sail regardless. If you haven’t finished the 2 part safety they will find you and make you attend a make up session in person and you will not get to choose the day or time

[cattolica]

8 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And I've spent 46 years on ships training and drilling crew (and passengers) and actively dealing with shipboard emergencies as the senior on-scene commander, and I know a whole lot about safety and rescue at sea, and the value of realistic training.  I probably "don't need" any more training, after several thousand repetitions, but you want to know something funny?  I keep learning something new every time.

Thank you for your level head and all of your valuable information.   We have been sailing on cruise ships for about 35 years.    My opinion is, every cruise is different even if your on the same ship.   The crew and the passengers are different.  I appreciate the muster drill and are part of a very small minority that believe an in person muster drill is a pretty important part of the cruise experience.  Thankfully, we have never been on a ship that experienced an emergency that required passengers to gather at their muster stations.

I value your experience and knowledge.

Thank you.

 

[azbirdmom]

17 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And I've spent 46 years on ships training and drilling crew (and passengers) and actively dealing with shipboard emergencies as the senior on-scene commander, and I know a whole lot about safety and rescue at sea, and the value of realistic training.  I probably "don't need" any more training, after several thousand repetitions, but you want to know something funny?  I keep learning something new every time.

I keep learning something new every time I read one of your posts.  And I want to thank you for that!

[startedwithamouse]

5 hours ago, paddingtonbear said:

They have to do this for everyone who hasn’t done their video muster drill. I read that the ship can’t depart before every passenger onboard has completed the video. 

Ship will depart on schedule. They'll locate you via your medallion. 

[commodoredave]

9 hours ago, chengkp75 said:

And I've spent 46 years on ships training and drilling crew (and passengers) and actively dealing with shipboard emergencies as the senior on-scene commander, and I know a whole lot about safety and rescue at sea, and the value of realistic training.  I probably "don't need" any more training, after several thousand repetitions, but you want to know something funny?  I keep learning something new every time.

The live muster drill is simply a repetition of the information on the video. You may benefit from that duplication, but others may not. And I have rarely if ever learned anything new at the live drill except that they make people stand for too long. All the cruise lines need to do is have a short online test at the end of the video so that those who have absorbed and understand the information can prove it and skip the live drill. 

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, commodoredave said:

The live muster drill is simply a repetition of the information on the video.

And I'll just leave you with two examples of how the e-muster works.  When NCL went back to in person musters a couple years ago, posters were stating how much confusion there was, because neither the passengers nor the crew knew what they were supposed to do.  Why?  Because the passengers had not learned how to get to their stations in a crowd, and the crew had lost their experience in handling crowds.  Then, RCI had an actual passenger muster, for a MOB if I remember, and a poster here commented on how much confusion there was, as passengers did not know even what deck their muster station was on, let alone where it was, and the excuse posted was "well, it was 7 days since we went to the muster station on embarkation".  And, the fact that the regulatory powers decided, after studying the e-muster, that at least a six month in person drill was required, shows the inadequacies of the e-muster drill towards meeting its designed purpose (saving lives) and not its desired purpose (passenger comfort).  Oh, and these instances of poor musters have nothing to do with the video presentation, nor the information presented in it.

[Mick B]

Hi all,

I would just like to this.

 

I think the new way of doing the muster drill (thanks to the pandemic changing things) is a much better way.

 

Firstly, you can watch the video presentation either on your device before you board or once on board, or if you do not have a device or do not want to use it, then you can watch it in your stateroom (which is normally open around 1pm-2pm) giving you time to watch it before the normal 4pm deadline.

 

The big issue I had with gathering at your muster station was that some people (mainly those who had cruised before) were not interested in what was being said by the staff and talked so loud over them that anyone that was interested and concerned could not hear very well, if at all, making the whole process pointless.

 

So watching somewhere quiet on your device or in your stateroom - provided you have time is a very good idea.

 

Secondly, I am have mentioned this before elsewhere, but I will mention it again. 

To me, the most important thing is not just knowing where your muster station is, but how to get to it from your stateroom.

Obviously, during the day you may probably be at lunch, at a show or out on deck somewhere, but at night you will probably be in your bed. In fact you may be there from 11pm until 7am meaning you will be in your stateroom 33% of each day, so there is a reasonable chance something may occur doing that time. It may also be very dark and you may be not be at your best.

 

So my advice, and its just advice and I am not telling anyone what to do, but I would do the following...

 

Try to get on board asap and go to the Windjammer for some lunch until the rooms are ready.

If I have not done the video then either watch it on my device either during lunch (via free internet) or wait until the cabin is open and then go and do it there or watch the video on the TV.

Now from there, make my way to my muster station using the best route available, now I know during an emergency other routes may be opened up, but at least I would have some idea straight away of how to get to where I am supposed to be.

 

I am led to believe that in a real emergency, if I cannot get to my muster station or if there is an issue with my life boat, then there is usually enough spare space to fit into another.

 

I would normally be on board 1130-1200, have had lunch, done my muster drill and be sat on top deck by 1430 having my first drink of the day.

Then from around 1500-1600 have the please of listening to the announcements over the speakers telling people to go to their muster station or else...

 

Surely this way is much better than having to stop what you are doing at 1530 and lose an hour waiting in line for a speech you can hardly hear anyway.

 

Mick.

 

 

Edited Sunday at 11:34 AM by Mick B
spelling

[Mick B]

Posted twice

Edited Sunday at 11:33 AM by Mick B
repost

[ontheweb]

4 hours ago, commodoredave said:

The live muster drill is simply a repetition of the information on the video. You may benefit from that duplication, but others may not. And I have rarely if ever learned anything new at the live drill except that they make people stand for too long. All the cruise lines need to do is have a short online test at the end of the video so that those who have absorbed and understand the information can prove it and skip the live drill. 

What about from the standpoint of the crew? The live drill actually has the crew dealing with everyone at the same time, just like what would happen in a real muster situation. The new muster drill does not accomplish this.

[chengkp75]

44 minutes ago, Mick B said:

I am led to believe that in a real emergency, if I cannot get to my muster station or if there is an issue with my life boat, then there is usually enough spare space to fit into another.

If your muster station is unavailable (due to the emergency), you will be directed to an alternate station, not melded into an existing station.  If your lifeboat is unusable, you will be directed from your muster station to either another boat that may have room, or to a liferaft station.  And, remember, the purpose of the muster and drill is not to get into lifeboats, that is a last resort, the muster is called to gather passengers in known and controllable locations and account for all of them.  Accountability is the major function of the muster..

[chengkp75]

48 minutes ago, Mick B said:

Surely this way is much better than having to stop what you are doing at 1530 and lose an hour waiting in line for a speech you can hardly hear anyway.

 

And, again, the "speech" is mainly filler, while the crew completes an actual muster and search of the ship.  Much of the drill is going on while you would be standing at muster stations awaiting others to show up, and during the "speech" that you have no idea is going on throughout the ship, because everyone is standing at the muster stations.

[commodoredave]

1 hour ago, ontheweb said:

What about from the standpoint of the crew? The live drill actually has the crew dealing with everyone at the same time, just like what would happen in a real muster situation. The new muster drill does not accomplish this.

I have no objection to the drill taking place on a voluntary basis. All the people who want to go can give the crew some live bodies. 

[PacnGoNow]

30 minutes ago, chengkp75 said:

And, again, the "speech" is mainly filler, while the crew completes an actual muster and search of the ship.  Much of the drill is going on while you would be standing at muster stations awaiting others to show up, and during the "speech" that you have no idea is going on throughout the ship, because everyone is standing at the muster stations.

Appreciate your expertise and clarification on this thread, as always.

 

We’ve seen the crew during their drills, while in port, on our long cruises.

It is interesting to watch them go through the different scenarios.

 

Of course, most of the guests are ashore and not interacting.  To your point, they are not practicing crowd control.

[ontheweb]

11 minutes ago, commodoredave said:

I have no objection to the drill taking place on a voluntary basis. All the people who want to go can give the crew some live bodies. 

And you really think that will help the crew how to learn CROWD control.

[commodoredave]

1 minute ago, ontheweb said:

And you really think that will help the crew how to learn CROWD control.

Yes. The crew I know are smart enough to figure it out. But just to be sure, have a mandatory muster drill once a month. 

[TRLD]

6 hours ago, commodoredave said:

The live muster drill is simply a repetition of the information on the video. You may benefit from that duplication, but others may not. And I have rarely if ever learned anything new at the live drill except that they make people stand for too long. All the cruise lines need to do is have a short online test at the end of the video so that those who have absorbed and understand the information can prove it and skip the live drill. 

The best use of the muster drill is for the passengers to help train the crew in how to deal with large groups of often obnoxious and self centered passengers who think that rules and directions do not apply to them. 

 

This helps provide them with experience for an actual emergency when things will be far worse.

[Colorado Coasty]

One thing I learned during my Coast Guard career is that the people who had been there and done that and knew everything were not necessarily the ones we had to rescue. They were more likely the ones we had to recover.

[chengkp75]

2 hours ago, commodoredave said:

Yes. The crew I know are smart enough to figure it out. But just to be sure, have a mandatory muster drill once a month. 

And I probably know more crew than you do, and while they may grumble about drills, they all acknowledge the need for them, and the muscle memory it imparts.

[commodoredave]

55 minutes ago, TRLD said:

The best use of the muster drill is for the passengers to help train the crew in how to deal with large groups of often obnoxious and self centered passengers who think that rules and directions do not apply to them. 

 

This helps provide them with experience for an actual emergency when things will be far worse.

Will I get paid for helping the crew learn how to deal with obnoxious passengers (very few of which I have ever met), or will I get a future cruise credit?

[memoak]

4 hours ago, Mick B said:

Hi all,

I would just like to this.

 

I think the new way of doing the muster drill (thanks to the pandemic changing things) is a much better way.

 

Firstly, you can watch the video presentation either on your device before you board or once on board, or if you do not have a device or do not want to use it, then you can watch it in your stateroom (which is normally open around 1pm-2pm) giving you time to watch it before the normal 4pm deadline.

 

The big issue I had with gathering at your muster station was that some people (mainly those who had cruised before) were not interested in what was being said by the staff and talked so loud over them that anyone that was interested and concerned could not hear very well, if at all, making the whole process pointless.

 

So watching somewhere quiet on your device or in your stateroom - provided you have time is a very good idea.

 

Secondly, I am have mentioned this before elsewhere, but I will mention it again. 

To me, the most important thing is not just knowing where your muster station is, but how to get to it from your stateroom.

Obviously, during the day you may probably be at lunch, at a show or out on deck somewhere, but at night you will probably be in your bed. In fact you may be there from 11pm until 7am meaning you will be in your stateroom 33% of each day, so there is a reasonable chance something may occur doing that time. It may also be very dark and you may be not be at your best.

 

So my advice, and its just advice and I am not telling anyone what to do, but I would do the following...

 

Try to get on board asap and go to the Windjammer for some lunch until the rooms are ready.

If I have not done the video then either watch it on my device either during lunch (via free internet) or wait until the cabin is open and then go and do it there or watch the video on the TV.

Now from there, make my way to my muster station using the best route available, now I know during an emergency other routes may be opened up, but at least I would have some idea straight away of how to get to where I am supposed to be.

 

I am led to believe that in a real emergency, if I cannot get to my muster station or if there is an issue with my life boat, then there is usually enough spare space to fit into another.

 

I would normally be on board 1130-1200, have had lunch, done my muster drill and be sat on top deck by 1430 having my first drink of the day.

Then from around 1500-1600 have the please of listening to the announcements over the speakers telling people to go to their muster station or else...

 

Surely this way is much better than having to stop what you are doing at 1530 and lose an hour waiting in line for a speech you can hardly hear anyway.

 

Mick.

 

 

On Princess you cannot watch the video until you are logged onto medallion net so you cannot do this prior to boarding. From the name of lunch venue I believe you are referring to a different cruise line