Topless sun bathing?

[kruisey]

You completely made my point. An 8 year old will be embarassed to see topless women if he has been taught that it is wrong. Contrary to your statement, Americans are not sole judge and jury about what is "appropriate." Our kids are taught what is the norm in our society, and rightly so. But they should also be taught that other societies view things differently and we are not to judge that our ways are always "superior." My children don't sunbathe topless and their mother doesn't either. But they are worldly enough to know that many other cultures don't view it as immoral, inappropriate or "not okay" and they can deal with that fact. That's why they didn't really bat an eye. I had warned them in advance and they were way too involved with making sandcastles to be appalled by all the "inappropriate" behavior, and the same would have been true if a few ladies were sunbathing topless by the pool on the ship.

 

Modest is one thing. Self righteous and judgemental is quite another thing altogether.

Yes a great post in my humble opinion .:)

[cien750hp]

You know how they say "when in Rome, do as the Romans.." well, Princess markets their cruises generally to Americans. Americans are known to be more modest than most of the rest of the world, it is part of our culture. (I guess we're the prudes of the world! LOL) We as Americans are always taught to be respectful of other people's cultures. We aren't supposed to offend anyone (call it "political correctness") and we are taught tolerance growing up in America. Where is the respect for OUR culture? Does that not matter?

 

 

How are americans more modest? alot of girls dress very very skimpy here. thats not modest.

[alaswhales]

Very interesting posts. The only cruise I have been on that had the nude sunbathing deck was on the Carnival Estacy in 2000, at least the only one I noticed. We found it by mistake, while looking for someplace to lay out. It was myself and a lady co-worker (yes, we are straight) and there were no lounge chairs available, so when we saw the sign, we said "what the heck" and went up and layed out. Not that I was embarrassed so much, as I had never been to a nude deck before, so when a guy came up and stripped, my friends eyes got big as saucers, and told me about it. I never even turned around. I didn't want to make him uncomfortable for me to look. We are older adults though. It wouldn't bother me at all to see others doing it. I did go to the nude pier in Key West while on that same cruise and take off my hooter shirt (no bra), wave it in the air, and had a guy take my picture to prove I did it. I would normally not do that, but I figured I am older now, and a body is a body. I agree we (Americans) put too much emphasise on nudity.

Derf5585-thanks for all the laughs tonight. They helped me relax after work!!!

[XtinaRenee]

I'm proud to be a modest American...tolerate that!! Seriously, I DON"T think that the rest of the world should have the same morals that many American do, nor do most Americans. However, If I decide to have an opinion that contracts the various cultures\people that find it necessary to be topless in public places, then you know what....tolerance and respect should be a TWO WAY street. I thank GOD everyday that I live in a country that allows us the freedom to have an OPINION either way!!

 

[nrdsb4]

I'm proud to be a modest American...tolerate that!! Seriously, I DON"T think that the rest of the world should have the same morals that many American do, nor do most Americans. However, If I decide to have an opinion that contracts the various cultures\people that find it necessary to be topless in public places, then you know what....tolerance and respect should be a TWO WAY street. I thank GOD everyday that I live in a country that allows us the freedom to have an OPINION either way!!

 

 

I'm not really sure what point you're making. Who has a problem with modesty? I'm quite modest myself. In American society, it is not the norm to see topless sunbathing and most places here prohibit it. But when I go into a foreign environment or a cruise ship that caters to clients of different nationalities that has a topless deck, I have to be prepared to accept that our cultural norms (I don't see it as a MORAL issue) aren't necessarily going to rule the day. If you prepare your kids for this and don't make a big deal out it, they don't either. After a few minutes of "whoa," they seem to deal with it a lot better than many adults do. It really isn't going to traumatize them or cause them to run out and discard all the values their families/societies have impressed upon them.

 

At any rate, as it pertains to cruise ships, most topless sunbathing is confined to a private area, so the discomfort of children is really not an issue. As for beaches cruise ships visit, that is another story, but cruise lines are pretty good about telling us which beaches allow topless or nude sunbathing, so rarely should this be a surprise. If I was that uptight about seeing naked breasts, I wouldn't go to a topless beach.

[nrdsb4]

Wow, I'm sorry. I didn't know I was asking such a heated question!

 

 

Lol, this topic ALWAYS gets heated responses. But so do threads about what people wear to dinner, kids in the hot tubs, bringing babies on cruises, and smuggling liquor onboard. :)

[LuvRVacay]

I agree - I am also an American woman and it doesn't bother me in the least and kids do tend not to notice anything extraordinary unless we bring it to their attention. I cannot see how someone else choosing to do this can possibly impact my vacation in any way. But everyone has a right to their opinion.

[derf5585]

Lol, this topic ALWAYS gets heated responses. )

 

Yes, I am hot and bothered.

[Clarkk W Griswald]

However, If I decide to have an opinion that contracts the various cultures\people that find it necessary to be topless in public places, then you know what....tolerance and respect should be a TWO WAY street.

 

But when you leave the country, you have to tolerate the cultures of where you are, not where you are from. Toplessness and nudity is the norm in the caribbean. If it offends you so much, stay home and go to American beaches where you have the right to complain about it.

[jnwfla]

In my opinion, I see nothing wrong with topless sunbathing. Since Princess does not provide a topless deck, I use our balcony, but I have seen a woman topless on the pool deck also. Americans are just too uptight about the human body. Again, just my opinion.

 

 

Jane

[hogfan55]

I'm proud to be a modest American...tolerate that!! Seriously, I DON"T think that the rest of the world should have the same morals that many American do, nor do most Americans. However, If I decide to have an opinion that contracts the various cultures\people that find it necessary to be topless in public places, then you know what....tolerance and respect should be a TWO WAY street. I thank GOD everyday that I live in a country that allows us the freedom to have an OPINION either way!!

 

Amen to that! In all seriousness, if we were born and raised in Europe we would have the same mores as them, and vice-versa. These customs can and do change but happen over decades and centuries, not overnight. I don't like it when people act like Americans are the only people that believe in modesty. Many of the Caribbean countries (ie. Barbados) are against skimpy clothing or braless outfits. I have seen ladies (I use that term loosely here) on more than one occasion not so politely told to leave when not dressed appropriately.

[nrdsb4]

Amen to that! In all seriousness, if we were born and raised in Europe we would have the same mores as them, and vice-versa. These customs can and do change but happen over decades and centuries, not overnight. I don't like it when people act like Americans are the only people that believe in modesty. Many of the Caribbean countries (ie. Barbados) are against skimpy clothing or braless outfits. I have seen ladies (I use that term loosely here) on more than one occasion not so politely told to leave when not dressed appropriately.

 

When we went to St. John, my husband drove us back to our villa after a day at the beach. It was very hot, so he didn't put on his shirt over his swimsuit. We were told later that he could have been pulled over by the cops for not having a shirt on, even though we were just driving home. We meant no disprespect, we just didn't realize.

 

You have to respect and abide by the cultures of the country you are visiting. And it pays to learn those customs before you arrive.

[steve20832]

When we went to St. John, my husband drove us back to our villa after a day at the beach. It was very hot, so he didn't put on his shirt over his swimsuit. We were told later that he could have been pulled over by the cops for not having a shirt on, even though we were just driving home. We meant no disprespect, we just didn't realize.

 

You have to respect and abide by the cultures of the country you are visiting. And it pays to learn those customs before you arrive.

 

So it is legal for men to go shirtless at the beach but not in a car. Stupid law!

[flynrph]

So it is legal for men to go shirtless at the beach but not in a car. Stupid law!

Don't even go there FTLOG!:eek:

 

Next, Nice to see Derf worked up over a F-Deck thread, even if it is on Princess. Maybe you should start a petition with Princess. Maybe it won't be closed down!

[jennew]

I resent the suggestion that I am uptight or raising my children to that way. My teens would be THRILLED to see a topless woman on the deck, my husband would blush, my 7 year old would loudly ask "Did that lady forget her top?"

 

and NONE of that is a wrong reaction. Why on earth would I "teach" my 7 year old about topless sunbathing? It would not even come into conversation until he spotted it somewhere. If he saw a woman with no top it would seem stragne because he has never seen anyone in public like that before- does that reflect on my parenting? :rolleyes:

[rebeccalouise]

I think it is funny that people think we should be exposing our kids to different cultures and this includes topless sunbathing. I have taken my kids to Italy, Switzerland, Spain and England. These were wonderful experiences but I don't recall trapsing them to the beach for their topless cultural experience!

If Americans were exposed at the beach to toplessness- then little kids would be oblivious like they are in Europe. But as the previous poster said, that isn't what they are exposed to here and would consequently have have a surprized attitude- like American adults usually do.

[nrdsb4]

. Why on earth would I "teach" my 7 year old about topless sunbathing? It would not even come into conversation until he spotted it somewhere. If he saw a woman with no top it would seem stragne because he has never seen anyone in public like that before- does that reflect on my parenting? :rolleyes:

 

Who's talking about bad parenting?!

 

Why would you "teach your child about topless sunbathing?" Of course it's not required subject matter, nor does it determine parental fitness. But if you were taking your child somewhere where there would be a good possibility of him seeing topless sunbathers it might be a good idea to give him a heads up so he wouldn't be surprised, taken aback, upset, embarassed, whatever. If you don't anticipate ever being in that situation, then no, it probably wouldn't come up in conversation. We knew when we took our kids to southern France that there was a high probability they'd see topless sunbathers. I said, "in France they often don't wear tops on the beach." My dd said "why? Isn't that against the law?" My response was "I guess they want to be comfortable or get a tan all over, and no it's not against the law." When we got there, they looked around a bit, then got down to the business of making sandcastles and body surfing with our friends' young sons, and none of them paid any attention to it at all.

 

I "taught" my girls about the sunbathing issue the same as I taught them about other aspects of French culture and etiquette that might affect them on our trip.

[nrdsb4]

I think it is funny that people think we should be exposing our kids to different cultures and this includes topless sunbathing. I have taken my kids to Italy, Switzerland, Spain and England. These were wonderful experiences but I don't recall trapsing them to the beach for their topless cultural experience!

If Americans were exposed at the beach to toplessness- then little kids would be oblivious like they are in Europe. But as the previous poster said, that isn't what they are exposed to here and would consequently have have a surprized attitude- like American adults usually do.

 

I don't know that anyone here has said that you "should" expose your kids to topless sunbathing. The point is that there are places in the world where this is standard practice and they are not going to change for our benefit. I think if a parent has objections to their children seeing topless sunbathers, then it's well within their rights to avoid going to those places.

 

When we were on the French coast, we didn't "trapse our kids to the beach in order to give them a topless experience." We wanted to go to the beach, and in order to go to the beach in southern France, you've got to be aware that there will be some women there without their tops on. They're only catching rays, no strip teases that I ever saw.

[rebeccalouise]

In other words I don't classify toplessness as a "cultural experience". As for cruising, the point is moot anyway. Since Princess, Celebrity and other cruise lines are marketed by mostly Americans- you won't see any visible topless sunbathing (except in designated areas).

[nrdsb4]

In other words I don't classify toplessness as a "cultural experience". As for cruising, the point is moot anyway. Since Princess, Celebrity and other cruise lines are marketed by mostly Americans- you won't see any visible topless sunbathing (except in designated areas).

 

I have read (maybe not on this particular thread) that on some Mediterranean cruises one will occasionally see topless women by the pool. I think it was on RCI. If I had children and this was an issue for me, I would definitely want to know this before I booked and paid.

[MaryPoppinz]

I am always surprised by these posts suggesting that Americans make far too big a deal of nudity and we shouldn't emphasize it so much. In my house, it's considered a big deal and I get routinely get enthusiastic support when I decide to emphasize it. I'd be a little disappointed by a ho-hum reaction. Nekkid again, whatever... :)

[jennew]

Who's talking about bad parenting?!

 

well...

 

8 year old child is only embarassed about topless sunbathers if he has been taught that there is something shameful or embarassing about the naked body

 

 

Read the whole thread....

[nrdsb4]

well...

 

 

 

 

Read the whole thread....

 

Did read it. That statement (mine by the way) does NOT state that teaching a child that nudity is wrong or something to be embarassed about makes a bad parent. There are parents who definitely believe that, teach it to their kids, and are great parents. My point was that reactions to nudity (whether embarassed or perfectly happy with it) are directly related to how parents communicate their own feelings about it, whether verbal or non verbal. No judgement was made that anyone who is uncomfortable with public nudity and conveys that to their child is a bad parent.

[sjbdtz]

Jennew.....not commenting on your parenting, but have your kids ever read National Geographic?

 

Lots of nakedity of both genders....

 

 

When your 7 year old loudly asks "did that woman forget her top", you calmly reply "no, dear....she's just wants to get a tan without strap lines".

 

You'd say the same thing if he saw a naked man on the sundeck.

 

 

And as for your husband "blushing".....what's THAT all about? Does he think it's sexual whenever he takes his shirt off while cutting the lawn? Tanning at the beach?

 

Why should it have to be considered sexual when a woman does it?

 

My suggestion is a full weekend at a nudist colony...where nudity does not equal sex, and is just another healty expression of a person's individuality. ;)

[TNTLAMB]

"Exposure" (intresting term) to other cultures for children is one thing, partcipation even as a "disintrested" party (hardly to believe that young American Males would be) is another. Seperate decks yes, their are other beaches than Orient beach. Our children are not Europeans. Nudity is not acceptable in these other societies while bare breasts are. There is a huge difference. The justification of some for going "native" while away from home indicates to me at least that they truly recognize the difference. Spring breakers are the ultimate proof. These young ladies are "exposing" themselves in a "party" atmoshere usually alcohol induced. hardly the same as Europe. They certainly would not do so if their fathers were there, no would their fathers (or mothers) approve or encourage them at orient beach or poolsisde on the xxxPrincess. Dismiss it if you will, but its where and how we live 51 weeks of the year.