Passenger Service Act Confusion

[rollingstone]

My wife and I wanted to book a b2b Vancouver to Whitier and back to Vancouver and were told by the future cruise consultant that we couldn't. Others have told us she is wrong. Who's right?

[LARGIN]

The FCC person was wrong. We did the same b2b cruise last year and are looking at doing it again in 2010.

[Colo Cruiser]

It is really sad that these so called future cruise consultants onboard are so out of touch.

I recieve bad info from them consistantly, thats why other then buying FCC's I don't deal with them. :rolleyes:

[Av8tor]

My wife and I wanted to book a b2b Vancouver to Whitier and back to Vancouver and were told by the future cruise consultant that we couldn't. Others have told us she is wrong. Who's right?

 

Maybe one of the experts could chime in here again, but the PSA only applies if the cruise departs from a US port to another US port. Since you're wanting to leave from YVR going to AK, it wouldn't apply. The 2nd leg, AK to YVR, would also be OK since it starts in the US and ends in Canada. If you wanted to do the b2b in reverse (AK-YVR-AK), I believe that would also be OK since it would essentially be a round-trip beginning and ending at the same US port.

[LARGIN]

Maybe one of the experts could chime in here again, but the PSA only applies if the cruise departs from a US port to another US port. Since you're wanting to leave from YVR going to AK, it wouldn't apply. The 2nd leg, AK to YVR, would also be OK since it starts in the US and ends in Canada. If you wanted to do the b2b in reverse (AK-YVR-AK), I believe that would also be OK since it would essentially be a round-trip beginning and ending at the same US port.

You are correct...

[wrp96]

The only issue would be if you tried to begin and end in two different US ports, say Whittier to LA - THAT would bring up PVSA issues.

[Pam in CA]

My wife and I wanted to book a b2b Vancouver to Whitier and back to Vancouver and were told by the future cruise consultant that we couldn't. Others have told us she is wrong. Who's right?

::: Waving hello! I'm back on the Sapphire next week. :) :::

 

They're wrong. The PSVA is a U.S. regulation to protect U.S. shipping and applies only when embarking and disembarking in U.S. ports. You're embarking in Canada so it doesn't apply. It WOULD apply if you were embarking in Seattle to Whittier and then taking a B2B back to Seattle but not when you embark in Canada.

[Grego]

I'm glad you got it right with the explaination of the Act.

[Coral]

Several years ago my TA had problems booking these and she would just booked them seperately and not link them.

 

I have done this trip 2x along with 100 plus other people.

 

This trip is definitely do able.

[c-legs]

Hi,

My $0.02 bit....:rolleyes:;): positively do-able, frequently done, and even marketed as such my HAL this summer.

While doing some ''meet'n'greet'' work at the pier, it was routine to check-in folks leaving Vancouver on a northbound who were returning on the same sailing, southbound, 14 days later.

HAL's advantage is that 2 of their itineraries offer slight differences between S/B & N/B, thus making it an ''almost different B2B''.

 

Cheers:)

[DaisyRose]

I've heard that sometimes when you book B2B cruises you only get credit for one cruise. Other times I've heard you get credit for two cruises. Does anyone know when you do or don't get credit for two B2B cruises?

[megr1125]

I've heard that sometimes when you book B2B cruises you only get credit for one cruise. Other times I've heard you get credit for two cruises. Does anyone know when you do or don't get credit for two B2B cruises?

 

technically it is 2 cruises....each its own voyage...thus you would get credit for 2 cruises.

[rollingstone]

Thank you,

I will be printing these replies & taking them to Velma tomorrow. She had tried to tell us that Vancouver shares a border with the US so it was not a valid foreign port! Mexico shares a border with us also so I guess they will be disqualified next!

[Av8tor]

Thank you,

I will be printing these replies & taking them to Velma tomorrow. She had tried to tell us that Vancouver shares a border with the US so it was not a valid foreign port! Mexico shares a border with us also so I guess they will be disqualified next!

 

I think when Velma is talking about a 'valid foreign port' she's talking about a distant foreign port that must be visited if the cruise starts in one US port and ends in a different US port. No Canadian or Mexican port qualify (Aruba and Curacao) and only 1 or 2 in the Caribbean qualify. However, it's all a moot point if your cruise begins in Canada.

[Av8tor]

::: Waving hello! I'm back on the Sapphire next week. :) :::

 

They're wrong. The PSVA is a U.S. regulation to protect U.S. shipping and applies only when embarking and disembarking in U.S. ports. You're embarking in Canada so it doesn't apply. It WOULD apply if you were embarking in Seattle to Whittier and then taking a B2B back to Seattle but not when you embark in Canada.

 

Pam,

 

Is there such a thing as a Seattle to Whittier cruise? Wouldn't that, in itself, violate the PSA. If it leaves from one US port and ends in another US port, it must make a stop at a DISTANT foreign port and nothing in Canada qualifies. Roundtrips out of SEA are, of course, OK.

[peedee3400]

I've heard that sometimes when you book B2B cruises you only get credit for one cruise. Other times I've heard you get credit for two cruises. Does anyone know when you do or don't get credit for two B2B cruises?

 

If the B2B is booked with one booking number, the B2B counts as one cruise credit. If it is booked as two cruises with two booking numbers, you will receive two cruise credits.

 

Have a great cruise!

[cdngrl]

If the B2B is booked with one booking number, the B2B counts as one cruise credit. If it is booked as two cruises with two booking numbers, you will receive two cruise credits.

 

Have a great cruise!

 

absolutely correct. i am doing a b2b van-whittier-van. i booked as 2 separate cruises (2 booking #s). there were so many of us doing this, that princess put on a 14 day van rt. those people will get credit for one trip, i will get 2. (btw, i called and asked if it would be cheaper for me to take the 14 day, but it wasn't. princess said from their end it was two 7 days linked).

[caribill]

If the B2B is booked with one booking number, the B2B counts as one cruise credit. If it is booked as two cruises with two booking numbers, you will receive two cruise credits.

 

Have a great cruise!

 

 

And, if you used FCCs when you booked as two cruises, you would get the FCC twice.

 

And, if you are a stockholder, you would get the stockholder benefit twice (although that could be lower than getting it once on a single booking longer B2B trip).

[BigGuy25]

I copied this from a Cruise Critic posting many years ago and post it occasionally when this subject come up so that those who are unaware of the PSA can get a better understanding. It's actually a much longer document that goes on to talk about the issues and those who would like the act repealed:

 

JONES: A HARD ACT TO FOLLOW

 

It's A Long Way to Ensenada

 

First-time cruisers are unlikely to have heard of the "Jones Act," and even experienced cruisers may only be vaguely aware of some sort of "weird old law" that somehow controls whether cruise ships may (or may not) stop at US ports. But if you've ever had to take the five-hour bus ride from Los Angeles to Ensenada, or vice versa, at the start or end of a cruise, you will certainly have asked why you must suffer such an inconvenience - and the simple answer is, "it's the law."

 

Jones Misnomer

 

The US law that can make life difficult for a cruiser dates from 113 years ago, and is called the "Passenger Services Act," but Senator Wesley L. Jones, who sponsored a 1920 Merchant Marine Act amendment relating to the shipping of MERCHANDISE, not passengers, has unfairly been tagged as the author of the restrictions on what a foreign cruise ship may do or not do in US waters. The basic rule is that "foreign" ships may not carry passengers (whether Americans or others) between US ports, subject to certain exceptions.

 

Purpose

 

It's hard to disagree with the basic purpose of the Passenger Services Act (the "PSA") which the US Marine Administration Branch describes as "assuring reliable domestic shipping service that is completely subject to national control in times of war or national emergency." The Administration also states that "the money earned by these vessels remains in the national economy as opposed to being exported, while public revenues benefit from both corporate and personal tax receipts."

 

What's A Foreign Ship?

 

If you're cruising on a ship such as the Carnival Destiny, with 85% of the passengers being American, an American captain and officers, and an entertainment and cruise staff which is largely American, it's difficult to believe that this ship is "foreign." But check the ship's "registration" - on the stern of the ship and on the lifeboats, it will say "Panama" or "Monrovia" (capital of Liberia), or "Bahamas" or somewhere other than the USA - meaning that the ship is registered in that "convenient" country, and therefore not subject, among other things, to American employment standards or US income taxes, despite the fact that (in the case of the Carnival Destiny), its ultimate owner is Carnival Corporation, a publicly traded company on the US stock market.

 

All major cruise lines, including Royal Caribbean, Norwegian, Carnival, Princess, Holland America, Celebrity and Crystal, have "foreign-flagged" vessels. To be an "American-flagged" ship, the ship must be primarily fabricated in the US, totally assembled in the US, have an American crew and be registered in the US.

 

When Can Foreign Ships Cruise from US Ports?

 

You almost need to be an attorney to understand the precise regulations under the PSA. (Heck, I am an attorney and I still don't understand!) To make sense of the regulations, you need to know that non-US ports are classified as either "nearby foreign ports" or "distant foreign ports." Despite the name, a "nearby foreign port" means:

 

any port in Canada

any port in Mexico

Bermuda

any port in the Caribbean (except those in the Netherlands Antilles, such as Aruba and Curaçao)

A "distant foreign port" means any other port, except a U.S. port.

 

With those definitions in mind, here's what's allowed:

 

A cruise which starts and ends in the same US port, visits a nearby or distant foreign port, and where no permanent disembarkation is permitted during the cruise at any US port (because there has been no transportation BETWEEN US ports (Huh?)

A cruise between different US ports where no permanent disembarkation is permitted along the way, but at least one port is a nearby foreign port

A cruise between US ports where permanent disembarkation IS allowed at a US port along the way, but only if the ship visits a distant foreign port and any permanent disembarkation takes place at a subsequent US port

A "cruise to nowhere" from a US port where the ship travels beyond US territorial waters and keeps moving

Any cruise which visits US ports but where no permanent disembarkation is allowed along the way and the cruise begins or ends at a distant or nearby foreign port

A reader paying careful attention at this point might say, "Hey, I can think of some cruises that don't fit into those exemptions." Well, that's because we haven't got to two more rules:

 

The US Virgin Islands are presently exempt from the regulations, and may be treated as though its ports were "nearby foreign ports."

Travel between the US mainland and Puerto Rico is allowed, provided that no eligible US vessel offers such service

The penalty for breaching the rules is a fine of $200 per passenger, even if the ship breaks the rules because of some emergency.

[DanJ]

Pam,

 

Is there such a thing as a Seattle to Whittier cruise? Wouldn't that, in itself, violate the PSA. If it leaves from one US port and ends in another US port, it must make a stop at a DISTANT foreign port and nothing in Canada qualifies. Roundtrips out of SEA are, of course, OK.

 

What I assumed she was talking about are the one night repositioning cruises that some lines do between Seattle and Vancouver. You couldn't do the one nighter SEA-YVR, and then book the one way YVR to Whittier because that in effect is Seattle to Whittier.

[smeyer418]

and the fine is $300. BTW the ship and cruiseline can also be barred from stopping at any US port if it violates these rules, so no cruiseline will knowingly plan a trip that violates the rules or allow a passenger to book a back to back(like from Seattle to Whittier) that violates the rules- this is considered one continuous trip for PSVA purposes. Although this penalty of barment has ever been imposed no cruise line can take the risk of being first....

[Nancyquilts]

So I understand we're talking about "permanently" leaving the ship. When a passenger misses the ship and gets back on at the next port, the ship wouldn't be penalized?

[StLouisCruisers]

We're also doing the B2B Alaska cruises in September, two booking numbers and separate OBC for each one, using our FCC's. I do all my research here on Cruisecritic, not by asking the Future Cruise Consultants, who seem to get confused very easily.

[sultan_sfo]

Just because someone posted it in Cruise Critic does not make it automatically correct. While I agree with the other items, I disagree with the one I boldfaced below. IMO, that should be "distant foreign port" as well.

 

I copied this from a Cruise Critic posting many years ago and post it occasionally when this subject come up so that those who are unaware of the PSA can get a better understanding.

When Can Foreign Ships Cruise from US Ports?

...

A cruise between different US ports where no permanent disembarkation is permitted along the way, but at least one port is a nearby foreign port

...

[smeyer418]

Just because someone posted it in Cruise Critic does not make it automatically correct. While I agree with the other items, I disagree with the one I boldfaced below. IMO, that should be "distant foreign port" as well.

you are right the quote is wrong.....

 

You can only start at one US Port and end at a different US port if you visit a distant foreign port....