Bluewake

I can't keep from pondering "what kind of people would do that"? Could it have been as simple as they didn't think anyone around them would mind? Is that even possible to be so oblivious to one's surroundings? Or, was it more that the group/family just didn't give a hoot if others in the room were bothered by their music and singing because "it's all about us and no one else matters?" I'm seeing more CC threads about this sort of boorish behavior and already tend to avoid one cruise line in particular because of it. We have an upcoming cruise booked on Beyond so I'd sure like to think this is an anomaly for Celebrity.

We've twice been to Taino Bay but have never docked at Amber Cove. How do the two compare? We liked Taino Bay for the shops and easy walk to the historic downtown area. Is Amber Cove similar in size and layout?

I have a similar perspective. Over years of cruising, we've done the traditional MDR dining thing where we were assigned to share a table with strangers. Sometimes it's been a really positive experience and other times well...not so much. For example: (a) we've been placed at a table where we were the only non-family members - pretty much left out of all conversation, (b) at a table where the others didn't speak English and we didn't speak their language, and (c) at a table with others who held significantly different socio-political views they were insistent about sharing. We began asking for a table for two but often found ourselves sitting that dreaded 8 inches (or less) you mention from another table which is tantamount to being at the same table. So, on our last two cruises, we decided to skip the main dining room entirely and go to the buffet or specialty restaurants for dinner. Frankly, it's been much more relaxing and private. And, as others have mentioned, dining outside watching the waves is a great setting (we especially like the Equinox rear deck). Of course, the choices in the Oceanview Grill can't compare to those in the MDR but we are not "foodies" by any stretch of one's imagination so it hasn't been an issue. If, however, the options are now going to be reduced dramatically, that's another story. Not sure what our dining strategy will be.

Same thing happened to us on a partial canal transit in 2019. We were on a cruise line excursion in which we took a small boat through the canal, going from the lake where the ship turned around to the Pacific side and then taking a bus back to the ship. We were over an hour late getting back. The guide told us that it was very common for that particular excursion to be late and the ship always waited. Although we tend to prefer private excursions, we book only those that are scheduled to get back to the ship at least a couple of hours before all aboard.

We were in Puerto Plata on MSC in August and also on Celebrity about 5 weeks ago. On the first cruise, we took a ship's excursion that stopped at the center of the historic area (Parque Independencia) where we felt entirely comfortable. Based on that experience, we decided that when we went back in November, we'd try walking from the Taino Bay Terminal to that same area and did so easily and without incident. It's probably only about 3/4 of a mile. Frankly, the only time we felt a bit uncomfortable was at the exit to the port where we were relentlessly approached by several people trying to get us to book a tour with them. To be clear, it wasn't that we felt unsafe, it was more that same harassed feeling we've gotten in Jamaica and Mahajual (Costa Maya) where some vendors can be insistent. We just politely kept saying "no thanks" and walked on. By the time we got to the end of the first block, it was fine. In fact, there are "tourist police" (armed police who are assigned specifically to protect the safety of tourists) who are posted on most of the intersections along the walkway. When you approach the intersection, they immediately stop traffic to allow pedestrians to cross. Frankly, I'm not so sure they really needed to be armed for - other than the area immediately outside the cruise port - everyone we encountered was very pleasant and friendly. We spent some time in the shops and cathedral in the historic area and then walked over near the Fort. No problems anywhere, nor did we ever feel intimidated, harassed, or unsafe. Fortunately, by the time we returned, the vendors at the entrance were pretty much gone!

Had a similar experience on Equinox. A man whom I'd observed on several occasions smoking in a non-smoking area on the promenade deck left a still-burning (smoke wafting up) cigar on the lacquer coated arm of the wooden chair in which he'd been sitting and walked away. Initially, I was hesitant to touch someone else's "property" because I wasn't sure whether he was coming right back. But, I decided this was a potentially dangerous situation that warranted more immediate action and put out the cigar myself. I then called the desk to advise them of what I'd done, asking if they could send someone to remove the cigar and speak with the man in the event he returned while I was waiting. About 15-20 minutes later, two staff from one of the specialty restaurants (not security) eventually responded and took the cigar. A few minutes later, I happened to see the smoker in the coffee shop. I probably shouldn't have said anything to him but since the ship staff seemed to have no interest in speaking with him, I approached him to tell him that he'd created a dangerous situation by leaving a burning cigar on a flammable surface. His response was to verbally and physically threaten me.

After reading this entire thread, I'd like to express my appreciation for what I consider to be the relatively balanced responses. Too often, when a thread such as this emerges on cruise critic, it tends to be populated by posters stating their personal beliefs that vaccines, masks, pre-cruise testing, social distancing, etc. are either 100% effective or 0% effective. Frankly, I have to assume that many such posters are expressing uninformed or merely anecdotal opinions for how many of us have any actual training in virology or epidemiology? I would think very few. Individuals whom I know who do possess such knowledge tell me that none of the aforementioned measures are totally effective or totally ineffective. Each offers some degree of protection, but none afford 100%. Thus, we each have to make our own decisions about the risks we are willing to take when it comes to cruising. Furthermore, we all have to recognize that we can neither trust - nor demand - our fellow passengers to embrace the same beliefs or behaviors we feel are appropriate. I suspect we will never all be "on the same page". I've cruised several times since 2021 - nothing longer than 8 days - but have a 14 night cruise on Princess scheduled for fall 2023. Frankly, spending so many nights on a cruise ship is stretching my risk tolerance but I'll do what I've done so far....taking the precautions that are under my control such as being vaccinated and boosted, wearing a N95 mask in close quarters, maintaining social distance, and self testing. Frankly, these measures haven't affected my enjoyment of the cruises I've taken in the past year. I do, however, recognize that not everyone feels the same. All I ask is that my fellow cruisers respect my choices as I will respect theirs. I've had covid (via a family member) and wouldn't like to have it again.

I cannot help but wonder how many of the posters on this thread who are complaining about people not adhering to MDR dress policies, themselves ignored masking policies in various areas of the ship when asked to do so by the cruise line?

You are a very informed poster who always contributes information and logic to the discussion. With that said, I’d really like to better understand your reasoning for believing that pre-cruise testing has minimal value. To me, whether a fellow passenger is vaccinated or not isn’t particularly important because it is not a dichotomous “are or are not” status. Rather, the degree of immunity/protection depends on factors such as how long ago one was vaccinated, personal attributes that may affect efficacy, and whether the vaccine was formulated to address the current prevalent variants. If I correctly understand it, being vaccinated may reduce, but not necessarily preclude, the chance of becoming infected and the greatest value of being vaccinated is in mitigating the potential severity of covid. Accordingly, I’ve come to think that I may be just as much at risk sitting next to a “supposedly” vaccinated person in the theater as sitting next to an unvaccinated person. It’s whether they are infected or not that matters. Given that, I see pre-cruise testing as being more crucial than being vaccinated. Of course, some cases will “slip through” the testing process because the person contracted covid just prior to the administration of the test (meaning it was too soon for the test to detect) or after the test on their way to the pier. However, given the approximately 18 R-naught value of something such as B5, even if pre-cruise testing identifies and prevents 10 or so infected people from boarding, that would seem to be a significant factor in reducing shipboard spread. You are way more informed about this matter than I so what am I missing here? Much appreciated!

Well all that certainly is true. However, when faced with a scenario in which someone sits down next to me in the theater and is clearly coughing and sneezing, a judgment call is necessary. One choice is to think “I’ll bet it’s nothing more than allergies”…and remain in my seat. After all, I don’t wish to offend the cougher. Another choice is to think “I don’t know what is causing the coughing and sneezing but it could be something I don’t want to contract such as Covid, the flu, or something else…and move”. I’ve had Covid and I would strongly prefer not to get it again so I am likely to exercise option number two. I would like to think the cougher would understand but if that is not the case, so be it.

I had the same experience over a full year of efforts to get a credit from a cancelled cruise processed. Probably sent 10 emails to that address. Typically, I'd quickly receive an email stating something such as how important I am to MSC, how MSC cares about their customers, and how someone will soon respond. Then...nothing, nada, zilch....

Yep....akin to the assurance that everyone parking in a handicapped space at the mall is using their legitimate personal hang-tag.

You might want to keep checking the Celebrity website for excursions. We were closed out of an excursion we wanted on the Equinox in May. I asked about being placed on a waiting list but was told no such list was being kept. I periodically kept checking and, about 2 weeks prior to the date of the cruise, openings suddenly appeared. We also just had a similar experience for the Tuscan Grill on an upcoming Infinity cruise. When we attempted to book the date we wanted, the website kept stating that there were no openings that particular night. However, I kept checking and, last week, we were able to book the date and time we wanted. I assume these openings were due to cancellations so there may be an element of lucky timing but keep trying....you never know! Good luck.

We all have opinions on whether Celebrity should eliminate or keep various covid related requirements and those should be respected. However, I am curious about a couple of assertions being made. The first is the assumption that cruise line bookings are suppressed because of pre-cruise testing, vaccination, and other requirements and that if cruise lines eliminate those, bookings will dramatically increase. In fact, one above poster stated that Virgin now has a competitive advantage because it dropped pre-cruise testing. I understand that this assumption may, indeed, be true but is there any evidence to support it? Have the cruise lines done any research to find out whether eliminating such requirements would bolster bookings? Most of the cruisers I personally know find the testing to be a pain but don't want it to be dropped. In fact, if cruise lines eliminated vaccinations and testing, they may be less likely to cruise. The second assumption frequently being made is that pre-cruise testing is a waste of time. I'd like to know if there is any evidence that this is the case. Again, I absolutely want to acknowledge that I don't know and that this could be true so I am not insinuating that anyone is wrong. However, since the BA5 variant has an R0 value of about 18, even if 10 prospective passengers with covid are prevented from boarding and spreading the virus, that might prevent quite a few others from contracting the illness. Not everyone of those will be so fortunate to have only a runny nose. I just got over covid a couple of weeks ago and felt lousy for about 2-3 days. Had I been on a cruise, I would not have wanted to leave my cabin. Again, not challenging....just asking.

I really appreciate all of your respective thoughts. If the Volendam can go around Cape Horn and not be bouncing too much, I think that addresses my concerns about the size and stability of the ship. The cruise I was looking at is in April 2023. Reading the thread about the contract to house Ukrainian refugees does raise questions as to whether Volendam will be back in service at that time although the letter from the HAL President does appear to offer some assurances. Perhaps another ship will replace the Volendam on that itinerary.

Although we've been on 30+ cruises, none have been on Holland America. In the past few years, we've primarily sailed on NCL, Celebrity, and MSC. We are looking at a 14-nt Caribbean cruise on Volendam because of the extraordinary itinerary but the size of the ship (about 60K tons) is preventing us from going forward with the booking. It would be the smallest ship on which we've sailed since an early 1990s cruise on RCCL Nordic Prince and memories of that tiny vessel bouncing up and down on the way to/from Bermuda still haunt us! In fact, we didn't cruise again for about a decade. For us, the itinerary is the main reason for booking a cruise. Shipboard activities aren't very important to us...we have little interest in floating water parks, production shows, casinos, game shows, or hairy leg contests. We do appreciate speakers, stopping by the onboard stores, listening to music, and maybe a meal in a specialty restaurant. With that said, we'd really appreciate learning how others who have sailed on Volendam as well as on larger ships on HA or other lines compare those experiences. Did you find Volendam to be "too small"? Was there an appreciable difference in the scope of services and amenities between HA and those other lines? Was there a discernible feeling of movement of the Volendam? Any thoughts are greatly appreciated.

What does that say about their character?

We also did an excursion to Green Grotto Caves during a port stop in Ocho Rios. It was a walking tour through the cave and the surrounding grounds. As I remember, there were quite a few steps as well as plenty of bats hanging upside down in various areas of the cave. According to the guide, one wide area in the cave was once used as a dance/disco bar. We found it enjoyable, plus you get to see some of the Jamaican countryside along the way.

My understanding is that your assumptions are correct. Vaccines, masks, and social distancing are not fool-proof. Each offers some degree of protection but not 100%. As you noted, the latest variants that are the predominant strains in the U.S. are relatively vaccine resistant/evasive, thus dramatically lowering the efficacy of vaccines in preventing transmission but offering some protection against serious symptoms. To me, that is a significant plus. Sure, I'd prefer total immunity but that simply isn't the case.

I hope so. We are looking for Nov-Dec 2023 Caribbean itineraries which other cruise lines have been booking for some time now. Any idea why Princess has been waiting?

We are seasoned cruisers who, prior to the pandemic, had a balcony on MSC Seaside but decided to place a bid on a YC interior because we'd not been in the YC before that time. The bid was accepted and we were excited about this new experience. However, during the cruise, we came to the conclusion that we should have remained in the orginal balcony cabin. The YC is very nice but it just didn't work for us. The two things we most liked about the YC were the ability to grab a quiet breakfast and lunch at the Buffet and Grill and being escorted on and off the ship at embarkation and debarkation. However, being quite independent and preferring to do things for ourselves, we actually found being tied to a butler (who was very nice) a bit stifling. For instance, we often had to wait to be escorted places until a group arrived to be taken together. On a couple of excursions, we ended up with some of the worst seats on the bus because the group didn't go down to the pier until the last minute. In the theater, we found the seating area reserved for YC guests not to be as good as other seats. [Of course, we could have gone to such events on our own but as YC rookies, we thought we'd stick with the program.] While the food in the YC restaurant was very good, I guess I'm an unsophisticated diner who didn't always appreciate the unique dishes that were offered...thus, I ended up eating the risotto entree 3-4 times. And, we like spending time in various cafes around the ship so sitting in the YC lounge wasn't for us. Finally, the pool area was rather tiny...although getting a chair was easy. We fully appreciate the fact that many cruisers find YC experience to be the only way to go but - as always - whether it's "worth it" depends on your personal preferences and lifestyle. If you like being pampered, having someone attending to your every need, and avoiding the crowds it probably would be a wonderful experience. We are glad we gave it a try but found it's just "not us". I assume a lot of folks might think we're crazy!

We were on the May 21st cruise and did not hear the Captain make any announcements about cases aboard…or I missed it if he did. On the 6th day, signs were posted at the theater and casino stating masks should be worn in those venues. It’s my understanding that this is done only when a designated threshold has been reached. Not sure if that is 1%, 3%, or something else. Of course, that is only the known cases from passengers and crew who have reported being ill and were tested as the cruise progressed. Do you think you might have done anything differently had you been advised of the actual number of known cases aboard the ship? Should the cruise line be more forthcoming or would that not have mattered?

Thank you! We were unaware of the outdoor tables at the rear of the buffet. It's not covered but it's good to know the option is there!

So, to be clear, your contention is that someone with covid aboard a ship should not have to quarantine or engage in any other precautions to prevent spreading it to others? They should be free to participate in all shipboard activities and anyone who feels threatened by them shouldn't cruise? Or, perhaps I am misunderstanding...

We are booked on the Seashore in August - our first time on the ship. We are hoping someone can provide information about whether there are outdoor dining venues on the ship and, if so, what they are like. Other ships we've been on have outdoor dining areas at the rear of the buffet, by the pool, etc. It's easy to grab your food and head outside to eat. We'd really like to know if there any such areas on Seashore. The Youtube videos we've viewed don't seem to show much. Thanks for any info!