Bad news for all Cruise Critic Groups on Carnival

[Cuizer2]

[quote name='keystonemama']I placed a question yesterday on the Carnival web asking when the new Deposit policy went into affect and when did they inform the TA's of this change: this is the answer I received from a supervisor: it is posted on the Carnival forum under Carnival Assistance. (New Group Deposit Policy heading)

[B][COLOR=Red]The deposit policy is not changing[/COLOR], it's simply that new automation enhancements are allowing us to now enforce our existing policy. Travel agents were just notified within the last few days that we would be enforcing our standard deposit requirements. In the long run, enforcing deposits will result in group space staying open longer and better pricing stability for all of our guests. [/B][/quote]

What does this mean? That the TA were taking advantage of a glitch in the system?

[Cuizer2]

[quote name='Chacooe']As a solo cruiser I was never allowed to take part of the $25.00 deposit, I had to pay the full deposit up front. Finally Carnival has made it fair for everyone.[/quote]

Well, I guess that is one way of looking at it.

By the way, I too cruise solo most of the time.

[katybugg]

TA's were not taking advantage of the system, this was Carnivals policy to let agents hold these cabins at $25 per person. Carnival says it is not changing ,just enforcing the policy. This is true in that the $25.00 depost was due within 30 days of booking. It was common practice for TA's to hold more cabins than they had deposits for in the hopes of selling them at the group rate. Well, these cabins didnt always sell and had to be released, thereby creating a lot of unsold cabins close to final payment date. These cabins were then sold at a reduced rate. Lower profits for Carnival. Groups like CC could offer a great rate and people were happy to book at this reduced rate.The beauty of the $25 deposits was that you could offer a great price to a client without a lot of money down and this worked if a client had multiple cruises they were paying for. By the time one was paid off, due dates for another was coming up. Win Win for both client and agent. The change is not that the $25 deposit is not honored , un-deposited cabin space is just being recalled sooner. And only the reservation number will be lost. If you want to keep your reservation number, full deposit must be paid. When you have full deposit (by the full deposit due date), you will be reassigned an individual reservation number. There is not much you can do with a reservaion number until full deposit is paid anyway. And group pricing does not change. If you have more cabins than deposits, you have to release those cabins by Nov 1st. And TA's are not the only ones who hold group space. Some people call Carnival and set up their own groups. Same rule apply to them. l

[richstowe]

[SIZE=3]Here we are closing in on 300 posts on this topic. In the end there are [/SIZE][SIZE=4][B]3[/B][/SIZE][SIZE=3] possible positions. Carnival should keep the 25 group deposit as is , second immediately change it and finally change it but don't be sleazebags by making it retroactive. If you want to make changes OK by me but changing the rules for those that already booked just seems nasty and wrong. I guess its obvious I'm in the third camp.[/SIZE]

[Cuizer2]

[quote name='richstowe'][SIZE=3]Here we are closing in on 300 posts on this topic. In the end there are [/SIZE][SIZE=4][B]3[/B][/SIZE][SIZE=3] possible positions. Carnival should keep the 25 group deposit as is , second immediately change it and finally change it but don't be sleazebags by making it retroactive. If you want to make changes OK by me but changing the rules for those that already booked just seems nasty and wrong. I guess its obvious I'm in the third camp.[/SIZE][/quote]

According to post # 273 and # 278, the rules are not changing, just being enforced.

[MsSoCalCruiser]

TA's were not taking advantage of the system, this was Carnivals policy to let agents hold these cabins at $25 per person. Carnival says it is not changing ,just enforcing the policy. This is true in that the $25.00 depost was due within 30 days of booking. It was common practice for TA's to hold more cabins than they had deposits for in the hopes of selling them at the group rate. Well, these cabins didnt always sell and had to be released, thereby creating a lot of unsold cabins close to final payment date. These cabins were then sold at a reduced rate. Lower profits for Carnival. Groups like CC could offer a great rate and people were happy to book at this reduced rate.The beauty of the $25 deposits was that you could offer a great price to a client without a lot of money down and this worked if a client had multiple cruises they were paying for. By the time one was paid off, due dates for another was coming up. Win Win for both client and agent. The change is not that the $25 deposit is not honored , un-deposited cabin space is just being recalled sooner. And only the reservation number will be lost. If you want to keep your reservation number, full deposit must be paid. When you have full deposit (by the full deposit due date), you will be reassigned an individual reservation number. There is not much you can do with a reservaion number until full deposit is paid anyway. And group pricing does not change. If you have more cabins than deposits, you have to release those cabins by Nov 1st. And TA's are not the only ones who hold group space. Some people call Carnival and set up their own groups. Same rule apply to them. l

 

Are you saying that if someone set up a Group cruise with Carnival and Carnival told the leader that they would set aside cabins for possible group use. After deposits have been made, whatever cabins were not booked with a deposit, could be returned. This is no longer the case??? Does the entire group have to pay a deposit prior to Nov 1st? I'm so confused.

[jandjfun]

That is until they begin to recall blocked space, then the price will go up. :eek:

Yes, very true! Guess that is the benefit of booking a group cruise early. :)

Reggie, meet my friend Janet from my 1st Spirit Cruise, and Janet, this is Reggie, my friend from my 2nd Spirit cruise.

Hi reggie, it is so nice to meet you!!

What does this mean? That the TA were taking advantage of a glitch in the system?

No, cuz Carnival offered us the same thing the TA's did. It is carnival backstroking and trying to convince us that they aren't changing the rule, just enforcing it. I say poo poo to that!

[jandjfun]

Are you saying that if someone set up a Group cruise with Carnival and Carnival told the leader that they would set aside cabins for possible group use. After deposits have been made, whatever cabins were not booked with a deposit, could be returned. This is no longer the case??? Does the entire group have to pay a deposit prior to Nov 1st? I'm so confused.

I don't know how it is for a regular group, but a group through cruise critic has this information.

Everyone booked right now has a booking number. Even if they paid only the 25 dollar deposit. If you don't pay the full depsoit by Nov. 1st, you will lose your booking number and your reservation will be canceled. However, your 25.00 deposit will be held by the TA until you pay for the entire deposit, and then the 25.00 will be applied to the deposit. So if your full deposit is 250.00, you need to pay an additional 225.00 to keep your booking number, or to get a new one if you pay it after Nov. 1st.

From Nov. 1st , to book a Carnival group cruise through cruise critic you will need to pay the full deposit when you book your cruise. From today on, to book a group cruise through Carnival directly you will need to pay the full deposit at the time of the booking.

I hope this helps clear things up for you.

[richstowe]

According to post # 273 and # 278, the rules are not changing, just being enforced.

If something was widely accepted by Carnival and now it is not accepted then the rules HAVE changed. Simple!

[AuntieBon]

OK, I get that Carnival wants to recall the unsold rooms sooner and if you don't pay the balance you lose your reservation number but do you still retain the pricing that was originally quoted or when you come up with the entire deposit do you get the price AT THAT TIME.

 

It's early and maybe I'm a little dense but I'm still confused.

 

As for options 1,2,3. I'm voting for 3, I think it stinks that they've made this retroactive. :rolleyes:

[halos]

If something was widely accepted by Carnival and now it is not accepted then the rules HAVE changed. Simple!

exactly

 

OK, I get that Carnival wants to recall the unsold rooms sooner and if you don't pay the balance you lose your reservation number but do you still retain the pricing that was originally quoted or when you come up with the entire deposit do you get the price AT THAT TIME.

 

 

I believe that you are NOT guaranteed the price you booked at.

If the TA's block of balcony cabins (for example) is sold out and he/she needs to obtain an additional one for you, at a later date, you will incur the increased price, and that could be substantial if the rates go up.

[firefly333]

OK, I get that Carnival wants to recall the unsold rooms sooner and if you don't pay the balance you lose your reservation number but do you still retain the pricing that was originally quoted or when you come up with the entire deposit do you get the price AT THAT TIME.

 

It's early and maybe I'm a little dense but I'm still confused.

 

As for options 1,2,3. I'm voting for 3, I think it stinks that they've made this retroactive. :rolleyes:

 

Since your booking will be cancelled and you lose the booking #, sounds to me like you would not be locked into a price.

 

That TA has always allowed you to cancel and use the $25 for another booking .. so I dont see this as having changed.

 

I dont believe your booking goes into limbo and the price is protected when the booking # is stripped off.

[katybugg]

The TA does not keep your deposit, Carnival holds your deposit at group level until full deposit can be secured. (Ex.) If you hold 8 cabins @ $25 per person, that is $400 dep. On Nov. 1st if you only have $300 deposit, you will only be guaranteed price on 6 cabins. You will lose the other cabins. But the TA has to go in and cancel the other 2. If Carnival cancels it, they will cancel the whole booking. Place the $ at group level to secure the rooms and cancel the other 2.When the other 2 get ready to book they will need $250 deposit and will be paying current rate. The other 6 cabins are going to get the rate you booked at, but not until they secure it with full deposit (per your original contract). If you dont have any money on the booking Carnival will automatically cancel it. If you have some money on it and you dont go in and return your unsold allotment, it will cancel , even those with money on the books. If you have any cabins with full depsit you still have to cancel the others or everything will cancel. Each $50 deposit secures one cabin. No money, no cabin. If you don't release the unsecured cabins, the whole booking will cancel and money placed back on clients credit card. You wont lose the deposit because at this point, it is still refundable (not under any penalty) unless it is an agent accesseded fee. As it is now, Carnival would recall space but leave your deposited cabins alone. Now TA's are having to go in and reduce their allotment themselves. The enforcement is automatic now. It was more of a courtesy to allow us to keep cabins but it has gotten a bit out of hand with so many cabins being released and having to be reduced closer to sail date. So in fact, not a policy change a policy enforcement is what it is. Do I like that I have to tell my groups they need additional deposits...no. Do most of my clients care that they will have no reservation numbers if they dont pay full deposit...no. Do I care that they are taking my extra cabins...yes, but I will deal with it and continue to put clients on this ship. If another line presents a better deal will I switch...will I sell it to my clients...You betcha. As one poster stated, My loyalty is to my clients and I will do the best for them no matter which line it is. And as it is now, I deal with a lot of first time cruisers and Carnival is the best thing for them, especially being from Texas. After the first or second cruise they are hooked and they can then be comfortable enough to go bigger, better, even if it is still Carnival.

[buddylover]

.

 

I agree this seems like a non event to me and might actually benefit those that do not cruise with groups.

 

Ditto.....we have always checked into these group rates and every time they were higher than we could book on our own. Oh yes, they gave you a CC item and the right to come to the CC meet n' greet, but for the price difference it didn't seem to "pay" for us. So now, all those huge blocks of premium cabins will be released to the general public instead of held by the groups.....seems more fair to me!

[richstowe]

"Oh yes, they gave you a CC item and the right to come to the CC meet n' greet"

How much more do you have to pay to not go to the CC meet & greet:D

[katybugg]

The groups doesn't hold premium cabins , unless someone pay the full deposit they are usually just guaranteed a cabin. And one draw back to this will be since there will be less cabins being held and then returned there will be no reason to wait closer to sailing for better pricing. It probably wont happen. There are many who wait it out for the prices to go down. Most of this enforcement/ change is to better Carnivals bottom line (I for one dont blame them, from a business point of view). We will all just have to wait and see how it plays out. I dont see Carnival losing a lot of group business over this. It will soon become the norm and we will find something else to complain or praise them for. The other lines may be offereing reduced deposits now but is the overall pricing comparable to Carnivals? I am not a Carnival cheerleader but do think we need to be comparing apples to apples. And just because someone sees the need to enforce a rule, does not mean the rules have changed. Times change and rules that up to now , were bent a bit , are now being straightened out. I do a lot of groups and it will affect some of my clients, some it will make no difference. Some will read the message I sent and panic, some wont read it and do nothing. More work for me?....sure. But I love my job and I love cruising more and I want to introduce as many as I can to this wonderful world of cruising. Does it have problems?...sure. Are they life changing?... not a all. Will we get through this...? You bet we will.

[Pistol Packin Mama]

The TA does not keep your deposit, Carnival holds your deposit at group level until full deposit can be secured. (Ex.) If you hold 8 cabins @ $25 per person, that is $400 dep. On Nov. 1st if you only have $300 deposit, you will only be guaranteed price on 6 cabins. You will lose the other cabins. But the TA has to go in and cancel the other 2. If Carnival cancels it, they will cancel the whole booking. Place the $ at group level to secure the rooms and cancel the other 2.When the other 2 get ready to book they will need $250 deposit and will be paying current rate. The other 6 cabins are going to get the rate you booked at, but not until they secure it with full deposit (per your original contract). If you dont have any money on the booking Carnival will automatically cancel it. If you have some money on it and you dont go in and return your unsold allotment, it will cancel , even those with money on the books. If you have any cabins with full depsit you still have to cancel the others or everything will cancel. Each $50 deposit secures one cabin. No money, no cabin. If you don't release the unsecured cabins, the whole booking will cancel and money placed back on clients credit card. You wont lose the deposit because at this point, it is still refundable (not under any penalty) unless it is an agent accesseded fee. As it is now, Carnival would recall space but leave your deposited cabins alone. Now TA's are having to go in and reduce their allotment themselves. The enforcement is automatic now. It was more of a courtesy to allow us to keep cabins but it has gotten a bit out of hand with so many cabins being released and having to be reduced closer to sail date. So in fact, not a policy change a policy enforcement is what it is. Do I like that I have to tell my groups they need additional deposits...no. Do most of my clients care that they will have no reservation numbers if they dont pay full deposit...no. Do I care that they are taking my extra cabins...yes, but I will deal with it and continue to put clients on this ship. If another line presents a better deal will I switch...will I sell it to my clients...You betcha. As one poster stated, My loyalty is to my clients and I will do the best for them no matter which line it is. And as it is now, I deal with a lot of first time cruisers and Carnival is the best thing for them, especially being from Texas. After the first or second cruise they are hooked and they can then be comfortable enough to go bigger, better, even if it is still Carnival.

 

You did an excellent job of explaining it. That is exactly what a Carnival Rep told me yesterday when she called, and as I understand it. Now to let the clients know they can pay the full deposit or go into a Carnival holding account until they pay the deposit and are rebooked at the same price. We'll see what happens.

[Cuizer2]

"oh yes, they gave you a cc item and the right to come to the cc meet n' greet"

how much more do you have to pay to not go to the cc meet & greet:d

 

 

$25.

[RizzoLee]

I finally read through 15 pages.

 

Well, I'm irked. I spent so much time putting together a private group cruise, based on the staggered deposit dates. We have several cabins already booked, and I know for a fact that the majority of people (who literally just booked) will not be able to afford a full deposit now (upwards of the $1,000 mark for some of them). It is inconceivable of CCL to expect working families in today's economy to fork over this cash like that, a lot of us are barely making ends meet and this group cruise is the first 'real' vacation for a lot of them.

 

DH and I are expecting a LO in the spring, and are only able to afford this cruise as we also pay it off as a 'bill' every month as I'll be on mat leave with reduced income by the time the cruise rolls around. It's not that we can't afford to cruise (though things are tight), it's just easier to set it up this way to make sure it's paid off and we're not indebted for our vacation. Now, if I want to keep my booking, I have to go into debt for it!

 

I immediately started looking at competitors, which is something I was not prepared to do until DH and I became Platinum.

 

I could understand this change going forward, but making it retroactive really annoys this dedicated and loyal CCL cruiser, who has introduced 100+ people to cruising herself. I'll think twice before I refer to CCL again.

 

I'm a little irked at my TA, who's also my BFF. She did not inform me of this, but I'm sure she has a reason.

[halos]

So now, all those huge blocks of premium cabins will be released to the general public instead of held by the groups.....seems more fair to me!

 

You book a premium cabin, you do NOT get a group rate and you have to book with full deposit.

Group rates are given on only certain categories.

[reggierail]

Hi reggie, it is so nice to meet you!!

 

 

Hi Janet. ;)

 

You did an excellent job of explaining it. That is exactly what a Carnival Rep told me yesterday when she called, and as I understand it. Now to let the clients know they can pay the full deposit or go into a Carnival holding account until they pay the deposit and are rebooked at the same price. We'll see what happens.

 

That makes no sense at all. :rolleyes: I've gotten several stories from several people at Carnival and that's the norm. If you are, with a $25 pp initial deposit, still able to pay the full deposit at a later date and still hold the group rate there is no difference except you don't have a booking number any more. Looks like everything is the same aside from that. That would, in effect, grandfather in any current group bookings. All group bookings only hold the $25 initial deposit for 30 days from group inception anyway. Carnival has allowed additional $25 pp initial deposits to be made after expiration of the 30 day window at their discretion.

There will definitely be more clarification from Carnival as we approach the Nov. 1st date. I'd say that the Carnival reps are as confused about all of this as the general public & the travel trade is.

Reggie :eek:

[jandjfun]

Ditto.....we have always checked into these group rates and every time they were higher than we could book on our own. Oh yes, they gave you a CC item and the right to come to the CC meet n' greet, but for the price difference it didn't seem to "pay" for us. So now, all those huge blocks of premium cabins will be released to the general public instead of held by the groups.....seems more fair to me!

My group[ never had prices higher than Carnivals. We were always much lower, and now? HUGE price difference! We are saving hundreds!

The TA does not keep your deposit, Carnival holds your deposit at group level until full deposit can be secured. (Ex.) If you hold 8 cabins @ $25 per person, that is $400 dep. On Nov. 1st if you only have $300 deposit, you will only be guaranteed price on 6 cabins. You will lose the other cabins. But the TA has to go in and cancel the other 2. If Carnival cancels it, they will cancel the whole booking. Place the $ at group level to secure the rooms and cancel the other 2.When the other 2 get ready to book they will need $250 deposit and will be paying current rate. The other 6 cabins are going to get the rate you booked at, but not until they secure it with full deposit (per your original contract). If you dont have any money on the booking Carnival will automatically cancel it. If you have some money on it and you dont go in and return your unsold allotment, it will cancel , even those with money on the books. If you have any cabins with full depsit you still have to cancel the others or everything will cancel. Each $50 deposit secures one cabin. No money, no cabin. If you don't release the unsecured cabins, the whole booking will cancel and money placed back on clients credit card. You wont lose the deposit because at this point, it is still refundable (not under any penalty) unless it is an agent accesseded fee. As it is now, Carnival would recall space but leave your deposited cabins alone. Now TA's are having to go in and reduce their allotment themselves. The enforcement is automatic now. It was more of a courtesy to allow us to keep cabins but it has gotten a bit out of hand with so many cabins being released and having to be reduced closer to sail date. So in fact, not a policy change a policy enforcement is what it is. Do I like that I have to tell my groups they need additional deposits...no. Do most of my clients care that they will have no reservation numbers if they dont pay full deposit...no. Do I care that they are taking my extra cabins...yes, but I will deal with it and continue to put clients on this ship. If another line presents a better deal will I switch...will I sell it to my clients...You betcha. As one poster stated, My loyalty is to my clients and I will do the best for them no matter which line it is. And as it is now, I deal with a lot of first time cruisers and Carnival is the best thing for them, especially being from Texas. After the first or second cruise they are hooked and they can then be comfortable enough to go bigger, better, even if it is still Carnival.

The more explaining that gets done, the more confused I get! Please see the part I highlighted in red above. I have a cruise critic group booked. Are you saying that anyone booking my group after Nov. 1st will have to pay the current going rate and not the groups rate? If you are saying this, it makes no sence. You are saying that form Nov. 1st forward, if you want to start a group, everyone has to pay the full deposit, and after 30 days the group rates close and they would have to pay the going rate for the cabin? What the heck??

You did an excellent job of explaining it. That is exactly what a Carnival Rep told me yesterday when she called, and as I understand it. Now to let the clients know they can pay the full deposit or go into a Carnival holding account until they pay the deposit and are rebooked at the same price. We'll see what happens.

Only for those already booked with the 25 dollar deposit.

[stewpapa]

Ditto.....we have always checked into these group rates and every time they were higher than we could book on our own. Oh yes, they gave you a CC item and the right to come to the CC meet n' greet, but for the price difference it didn't seem to "pay" for us. So now, all those huge blocks of premium cabins will be released to the general public instead of held by the groups.....seems more fair to me!

 

 

I usually book on my own at ES so I can get price drops, if any. The CC groups I've looked at have been a little lower than the ES rate we could book on our own. We pay full deposit and select our cabin and then we are eligible for price drops if they fall below the ES rate, even in the group. This has not happened as the Carnival price for the cruises have risen. You can still book our cruise within the group at the CC rate, which is hundreds less than the current Carnival going rate.

[Jesscap5]

CruCon is trying to figure out how they are to survive at this point I would think. CC Group cruises on Carnival will soon be a thing of the past as will CruCon which has been coming for some time.

 

 

CruCon is well beyond surviving. They have grown probably more then any other agency in the past couple years and it's not just because of CC. They also just started offering river cruises and resort packages! They are way more ahead of their game then people think.

[richstowe]

CruCon is well beyond surviving. They have grown probably more then any other agency in the past couple years and it's not just because of CC. They also just started offering river cruises and resort packages! They are way more ahead of their game then people think.

Hmmmmm Seems like an ad for crucon