Downturn economy and Princess

[gingera]

With the recent Recession in the US and abroad, in your opinion, has Princess been affected adversely? OR do you think that Princess continues to sell out cruises?,

[tmitchell82]

From the information I have read from CCL reports, they have been generally able to sell most of the cabins, but at a lower cost. The one thing I have noticed is the lower prices for some of Princess's cruises during the recession. Have sailed a number of times in the last couple years and the ship has been pretty full. They can always lower the price to attract people to the ship who will spend money while on the ship. I do not think they would cancel a cruise because it is half full. A few years ago we went on a S. Caribbean cruise right after Thanksgiving. Ship was not sold out and they offered the cruise for $200pp for those living in PR, where we departed from. Got the ship full.

 

Just my 2cents...

[Toto2Kansas]

Well, they seem to be raising prices, and the stock price is climbing steadily, AND the ships still seem to be selling out, so I don't think it is affecting Princess too badly. ;)

[Coracii]

With the recent Recession in the US and abroad, in your opinion, has Princess been affected adversely? OR do you think that Princess continues to sell out cruises?,

 

I can relate to my personal experiences as far as cruises selling out. I've been on three Princess cruises (two on the Diamond, one on Ruby) since the economy collapsed and all three were at or near capacity. What that doesn't tell you is whether people are spending similar amounts while onboard or if they're averaging less room cost per cruise night than they previously were. I don't have the Princess financial statements, but Carnival Corporation had a revenue of about 13 billion dollars and an income of 1.8 billion in 2009, both down from 2008 (while having an increased number of passengers in 2009). That does say to me that the average cabin cost and the spending onboard have both decreased but the ships are still being filled. I do think 2010 is going to be a much better year for the cruise industry, they don't seem to be dropping the cruise prices as drastically (and some are higher than I've seen in years) as they were last year.

[paul929207]

Carnival Corporation seems to be doing very well. Their revenue and earnings reports and estimates continue to rise. The share price is up significantly.

[gingera]

TY for your opinions....

[Coracii]

Carnival Corporation seems to be doing very well. Their revenue and earnings reports and estimates continue to rise. The share price is up significantly.

 

Up until the 2008 through 2009 financial reports that is.. In 2008 the revenue was 14.6 billion with an income of 2.3 billion, in 2009 the revenue was 13.1 billion with an income of 1.8 billion (and that was with more than 500,000 more passengers in 2009 than in 2008). See page 2 here: http://phx.corporate-ir.net/External.File?item=UGFyZW50SUQ9MzcxNDQ1fENoaWxkSUQ9MzY4NTExfFR5cGU9MQ==&t=1.

 

So far 2010 is looking like it's going to be a better year. For the first three quarters they've reported 10.72 billion in revenue (9.95b in the same period last year) and 1.72 billion in income (1.60b last year).

[Colo Cruiser]

Princess has and continues to do extremely well.

[Kinkacruiser]

They are popular in Australia at the moment with the better exchange rate.

[Coral]

I have heard from several friends who are agents that bookings on all main stream cruise lines are very soft right now and in the spring. Not just Princess.

 

I think Princess (and other lines) will continue to sell their ships out but they will have to lower the prices to do so.

 

Just some examples - there are Caribbean 7 day minisuites selling for $749 in Nov and Dec (insides for $350) which is pretty low IMO. Probably some of the lowest prices I have seen. I booked a Christmas cruise in a minisuite for under $1000 (not a flash fare). There are some flash Christmas Caribbean sailings for $479 (insides) and $899 (minisuites) available.... There are some deals out there!

[Pam in CA]

I'm seeing more and more deals, price drops, flash promotions, etc. than in the past. However, I thinks ships are sailing full most of the time.

 

One thing that makes Princess and some cruiselines more flexible is that ships are not like Marriotts in that if one part of the world isn't selling well or at a profit, a ship, or ships, can be moved elsewhere to where Princess can command higher prices and fill ships at those prices.

[Coral]

One thing that makes Princess and some cruiselines more flexible is that ships are not like Marriotts in that if one part of the world isn't selling well or at a profit, a ship, or ships, can be moved elsewhere to where Princess can command higher prices and fill ships at those prices.

 

This is true and Princess has not hesitated in the past to move ships around to meet the needs of the customers. An example, in 2002 or 2003, when people were not traveling as much (or as far) due to 9-11, Princess cancelled a Grand class ship in Europe for the summer and brought it to the Caribbean (there were 2 ships doing similar itinerary). This was a change made in December or January if I remember correctly. Everyone booked on the cancelled cruise was accomodated with the other ship.

[Shifra]

I have heard from several friends who are agents that bookings on all main stream cruise lines are very soft right now and in the spring. Not just Princess.

 

I think Princess (and other lines) will continue to sell their ships out but they will have to lower the prices to do so.

 

Just some examples - there are Caribbean 7 day minisuites selling for $749 in Nov and Dec (insides for $350) which is pretty low IMO. Probably some of the lowest prices I have seen. I booked a Christmas cruise in a minisuite for under $1000 (not a flash fare). There are some flash Christmas Caribbean sailings for $479 (insides) and $899 (minisuites) available.... There are some deals out there!

 

I'm seeing more and more deals, price drops, flash promotions, etc. than in the past. However, I thinks ships are sailing full most of the time.

 

One thing that makes Princess and some cruiselines more flexible is that ships are not like Marriotts in that if one part of the world isn't selling well or at a profit, a ship, or ships, can be moved elsewhere to where Princess can command higher prices and fill ships at those prices.

 

I have to agree. I think the caribbean market is very soft right now. I live in Fl and all my cruises have been from Fl ports. All but one of my cruises have been to the caribbean and, over the years I have been very watchful of pricing. My upcoming Princess cruise is the lowest price I've paid, I can't believe how low prices have gone. It worries me that Princess may have to raise the price of incidentals onboard to make up for it.

[Pam in CA]

It worries me that Princess may have to raise the price of incidentals onboard to make up for it.

More likely, they'll move a ship somewhere else, i.e., to Europe, or create new and longer itineraries which can command a higher price.

[D&N LUV 2 TRAVEL]

Can't agree more with Pam's synopsis on deals, price drops and flash promotions. More and more cruises are being discounted with different types of promotions which must be done for a reason .... soft sales. As a result they may have full ships but revenues and profit margins will be decreasing.

 

I'm seeing more and more deals, price drops, flash promotions, etc. than in the past. However, I thinks ships are sailing full most of the time.

 

One thing that makes Princess and some cruiselines more flexible is that ships are not like Marriotts in that if one part of the world isn't selling well or at a profit, a ship, or ships, can be moved elsewhere to where Princess can command higher prices and fill ships at those prices.

[Pam in CA]

One thing to keep in mind is that profits are also made with onboard sales in the shops, bars, casino, etc. A couple of years ago, there was a TV show on PBS that brought this out. If they fill the ship for whatever reasons, they can still make a profit onboard.

[Shifra]

More likely, they'll move a ship somewhere else, i.e., to Europe, or create new and longer itineraries which can command a higher price.

 

You are right. Maybe there will be less ships in the caribbean. And just maybe........Princess will bring some of the smaller ships back to FLL. This is probably only wishful thinking on my part, oh but it would be so nice.

[Coral]

It worries me that Princess may have to raise the price of incidentals onboard to make up for it.

 

In some ways, I think they have.

 

It wasn't that long ago when internet was .35/minute (a bargain compared to other lines) and you just paid by the minute. Now you have to buy one of the larger packages to get prices similar to that (I don't have the prices off hand but think that is close)

 

Princess used to have free fresh brewed coffee in the Patissere for everyone and speciality coffee drinks in the dining room were free. Now, people are buying the coffee card to get fresh brewed coffee and the speciality coffee drinks cost (or you buy the card).

 

The soda card has gone up about 50% in the last 10 years or so (and soda really hasn't gone up that much in reality). I remember getting soda cards for $20 for a 7 night cruise and thought that was reasonable. I can't justify paying $30 for it now.

 

I am looking at some Mexican excursions for my next cruise and they are quite a bit more compared to what I remember paying a few years ago (now a beach break really shouldn't cost that much).

 

Princess is docking in inferior piers (farther away from town) in many ports to save money. Princess used to offer free shuttles into towns previously. Now, they are charging.

 

When the speciality restaurants first came out, they were like $3.50 per person or something rediculously cheap. They justified the cost by saying that was the tip as these people were not included in the recommended tips. IMO, the steaks served for $3.50 pp or $6.00 pp (it later went up to $6.00 I believe) was just as good as the steaks served now. Now we are paying $25 pp.

 

While these changes seemed gradual, they are noticable in my mind. Though as long as I think cruising is a good value for the money (and I still do) - I will continue to cruise.

 

Sorry - I went off subject quite a bit.

[Times Prince]

One thing to keep in mind is that profits are also made with onboard sales in the shops, bars, casino, etc. A couple of years ago, there was a TV show on PBS that brought this out. If they fill the ship for whatever reasons, they can still make a profit onboard.

I saw that show or a similar one on the Travel Channel this past year. I believe it was a Norwegian Cruise Lines ship, but the gist was that the cruise needed to sail at full capacity (2 persons per cabin) or greater to get near to break even, and then the onboard charges made the difference between profit or loss. Liquor/bar sales was cited as the biggest profit factor. That was followed by whatever else was charged for, like Bingo, specialty restaurants, casino, etc.

 

Even in a down economy, people still need vacations/holidays for their health and recreation and will look for best value for their vacation dollars. All in all, cruises often provide that value and in my experience cost less than land based resorts.

 

My stock broker talked about the economic effects when we told him to buy CCL shares. Even though we missed the price in the <$20 range due to his advice that we wait, CCL stock has been the best performing investment we've had.

[Red Hat Cruise Cat]

....My stock broker talked about the economic effects when we told him to buy CCL shares. Even though we missed the price in the <$20 range due to his advice that we wait, CCL stock has been the best performing investment we've had.

 

I wish I could say the same, I finally just broke even when CCL hit 40 this week. But I have had an excellent return on investment with all of those tax free dividends aka OBC so I'm still very happy:D:D:D

 

Love that shareholder OBC!!!

[caribill]

Our Princess cruise for early December this year was waitlisted in every category by and after final payment time. No doubt it will sail full without any last minute discounting or flash sale fares.

 

Prices for next spring seem to be significantly higher than they were for 2010. Although some spring cruises have had their prices recently reduced, they are still higher than this year.

[The Big Booper]

The 2009 TV show on cruising, featuring NCL, was on CNBC. Without serious onboard spending, the lines lose money since there is a price war when it comes to basic fares.

[Woobstr112G]

Well, they seem to be raising prices, and the stock price is climbing steadily, AND the ships still seem to be selling out, so I don't think it is affecting Princess too badly. ;)

 

Agreed. 2008 Was the year to book a cruise. The prices were way low. Now they seem to back up.....:(:(:(

 

Bob

[Pam in CA]

Agreed. 2008 Was the year to book a cruise. The prices were way low. Now they seem to back up.....:(:(:(

 

Bob

Since then, Princess has repositioned ships from Alaska plus the Star from the West Coast. I can't remember where she was going to cruise (Alaska?) but we were booked on her repositioning cruise from Santiago to San Francisco but it was canceled. The Star went to Europe instead. It takes a year or so but once a market gets soft, ships get repositioned. With lower capacity, higher prices.

 

It comes down to, "Show me the money."

[paul929207]

The cruise lines have a real good feel for how much the average passenger will spend on board. They also know what the incremental expenses for having a passenger. They know what they can charge and still make money.