Is NCL abandoning US

[Planer's Edge]

Is NCL abandoning you?

 

Most NCL Cruisers have just 3 considerations in choosing a cruise line:

1. Low Price

2. Low Price

3. Low Price

That's as far as their brand loyalty goes.

 

NCL has just three considerations when choosing which ports to send their ships:

1. Higher Profit

2. Higher Profit

3. Higher Profit

That's as far as their loyalty to you will go.

 

The Europeans have more money, it's worth more dollars, and they spend more of it onboard than Americans do.

 

Where do you think NCL will be sending their ships?

This seems to a model that reflects most every cruiser and cruise line. How can you be so sure that is only affects NCL cruisers and NCL?

 

I also believe that most of Europe is having as bad if not worse economic times right now. I also believe that Europeans do not spend as much money onboard as Americans do.

 

Isn't it amazing how opinions can differ if facts are not part of the equation.

 

PE

[BruceMuzz]

This seems to a model that reflects most every cruiser and cruise line. How can you be so sure that is only affects NCL cruisers and NCL?

 

I also believe that most of Europe is having as bad if not worse economic times right now. I also believe that Europeans do not spend as much money onboard as Americans do.

 

Isn't it amazing how opinions can differ if facts are not part of the equation.

 

PE

 

Planer's Edge.

Read my post again. I never claimed that it was ONLY NCL.

You are correct. The other cruise lines - including the one I work for - do the same thing.

 

You stated what you BELIEVED to be true about Europe and Europeans.

 

Since I sail in Europe most of the year, I base my statements and beliefs on the daily, weekly, monthly, and seasonal financial reports for my ship - and the others in the fleet.

The confidentiality agreement I signed with my company does not allow me to post specific facts, but the European passengers we carried in 2010 spent nearly double every day what the American passengers spent.

 

So although you may BELIEVE that Europe is having a hard time, and you BELIEVE that Europeans do not spend as much onboard as Americans, my company is enjoying record revenues and profits from those very same people.

[swedish weave]

Planer's Edge.

Read my post again. I never claimed that it was ONLY NCL.

You are correct. The other cruise lines - including the one I work for - do the same thing.

 

You stated what you BELIEVED to be true about Europe and Europeans.

 

Since I sail in Europe most of the year, I base my statements and beliefs on the daily, weekly, monthly, and seasonal financial reports for my ship - and the others in the fleet.

The confidentiality agreement I signed with my company does not allow me to post specific facts, but the European passengers we carried in 2010 spent nearly double every day what the American passengers spent.

 

So although you may BELIEVE that Europe is having a hard time, and you BELIEVE that Europeans do not spend as much onboard as Americans, my company is enjoying record revenues and profits from those very same people.

 

What do you predict will happen to the European market when cruise lines opt to participate in the "gold rush" and begin moving more ships into the area??

[marinaro44]

Is NCL abandoning you?

 

Most NCL Cruisers have just 3 considerations in choosing a cruise line:

1. Low Price

2. Low Price

3. Low Price

That's as far as their brand loyalty goes.

You haven't a clue, I regret to say.

 

We choose NCL because NCL treats us like adults, allowing us to eat when we want, where we want, and with whom we want, while not telling us what the costume of the day is that we must wear to the dining room. When other mass-market cruise lines adopt such a progressive practice, we will consider them. Offering the ability to have a preference, with the possibility of being wait-listed, for so-called "your-time" or "anytime" dining simply doesn't cut it, nor does "suggesting" jackets and ties or suits, etc. for the dining rooms, while recommending the "Lido" for those who prefer dressing casually. We are looking for NO fixed time dining and casual attire to be WELCOME in all dining venues at all times.

 

That's our "brand loyalty."

[sparks1093]

There is an ongoing thread on the RCI board with almost the exact same title.

[mypleasure]

and are not as fussy about the accommodations as Americans are. Most cruise lines send their "seasoned" vessels to Europe to get a few more years out of them and the Europeans don't seem to mind.

 

 

We are happy with what we get...

 

Seriously I am overjoyed by some of those itineraries. Lots of places I have never visited so a couple more years cruising with NCL still to come for me. I was worried that I might need to find another line or go back to land tours.

[mypleasure]

Then you'll be doubly disappointed! Apart from the Jewel of the Seas going to/from Harwich, RCL seems to have deserted the UK as well.

It seems only a year ago that both NCL and RCL were commencing most of their transatlantics from Southampton or Dover. Harwich seems like one of the most difficult places to get to/from for most of the UK (OK, apart from those living in Harwich!)

 

 

I suspect two reasons for the abandonment of the UK. Firstly I have no idea how much the port charges are at UK ports but I suspect they would make eyes water.

 

Secondly the UK have recently levies a massive airline passenger duty charge which will make flights from the UK incredibly expensive. See here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11664560

[Uniall]

I'm with John on this. NCL is abandoning LAX and now New Orleans, too. It's not always possible (or convenient) to fly to the East Coast or Europe. :(

 

Hate to hear that the Spirit is being relocated to Europe. The Spirit is one of my favorite ships and N.O is close for me to drive to. New Orleans is going to get the Voyagers of the Seas next year so I might have to switch to them if NCL abandons New Orleans. NCL is the only cruise line that I have considered as I like freestyle.

 

Maybe NCL could move a ship to Mobile, AL as it would be even closer for me. I do plan on cruising the Spirit one more time in N.O as she is there for 18 months this time.

 

 

Here's an intriguing observation. When I started this thread I had not completely thought through my own mindset on this issue. In fact, my desire to hear other viewpoints prompted me to open the matter for discussion.

 

Several posters, including those above, have helped me sort out my own evolution in cruising. I no longer desire to fly long distances round trip and I prefer to use Amtrak for at least half of my to and fro travel.

 

That was why I loved my Repo cruise on the Spirit from NOLA to Boston and looked forward to doing it many times. I can honestly say that my best ever pre cruise travel was Amtrak from Chicago to NOLA with 3 days to party with Cruise Critics. Then Amtrak from Boston to Chicago with 3 days to visit with former cruise mates.

 

Without realizing it, I have morphed from a 7 day cruiser to a 28 day cruiser (with 10, 14 & 21 day stops along the way) in order to minimize the need for long plane trips.

 

John

[BruceMuzz]

What do you predict will happen to the European market when cruise lines opt to participate in the "gold rush" and begin moving more ships into the area??

 

That "Gold Rush" is already well underway. There were many more cruise ships in Europe this past year than we have seen in a very long time.

 

If I could accurately predict what will happen in the cruise industry, I would be earning far more money than I currently receive - and I wouldn't waste my time posting it here for free.

 

If you look at past trends, you might be able to make a very "Educated Guess" at what MIGHT happen over the next 10 years.

 

My employers have the habit of being very fickle, very flexible, and very pro-active when it comes to making profits in a changing world economy. Most of the major cruise lines are currently beefing up and further developing their onboard programming/menus/entertainment for passengers from countries outside North America. That signals a major shift in focus for us.

Unless something major prevents it, you will likely be seeing a much bigger exodus of ships from North American ports.

If past trends are any indication, soon after the European market is saturated, prices will start to drop.

 

The boys in the corner office are not dummies. They get paid huge salaries to know exactly what will make the highest profits many years from now.

 

They are just beginning to plan to get ready for the new Chinese Middle Class. As a group, they are already nearly double the entire population of the USA. Market research tells us that they all want to go on a cruise. Recent developments in China make it very easy for them to go abroad and spend all that cash they suddenly find in their wallets. A few of the cruise lines are testing the market now - with quite good results.

As the European Market become saturated and prices start to drop, the cruise lines will have to consider another move.

 

Will they return to North America? Yes, if the dollar recovers; No if it does not recover.

Will they turn their focus on Asia next? Yes, if the Dollar is remains weak and the Renminbi and Yen continue to get stronger; probably No if the Dollar recovers.

 

A decade from now, you might well need to understand a bit of Mandarin to take a cruise.

[Uniall]

I suspect two reasons for the abandonment of the UK. Firstly I have no idea how much the port charges are at UK ports but I suspect they would make eyes water.

 

Secondly the UK have recently levies a massive airline passenger duty charge which will make flights from the UK incredibly expensive. See here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11664560

 

 

Good point. Lazst week, I used AA miles to go 1st class Chicago to London and Bus class London to Rome on British Air. The London fees, taxes and charges were $200 per ticket not the more usual $50 or so.

[runner15km]

Tourism Economics, CCL vs RCCL. Pour yourself a cup of joe and click on the pdf file for what is the focus of CCL & RCCL in Europe. I would think NCL is in line with this strategy.

http://www.ingentaconnect.com/content/ip/tec/2009/00000015/00000004/art00003

[Planer's Edge]

The confidentiality agreement I signed with my company does not allow me to post specific facts, but the European passengers we carried in 2010 spent nearly double every day what the American passengers spent.

 

Whereas, I am sure just the opposite is true for ships sailing in North America. If I were to fly to Europe for a cruise that would be a significant portion of my vacation budget leaving less to spend while there. The same holds for Europeans coming here to cruise.

 

Besides the premise of this whole thread is without merit. 4 out of 10 ships (not counting Pride of America) in Europe is not an abandonment of the US/North American market. It is even less so when you consider 2 of those 4 ships are only over there for a season and come right back for the opposing season.

 

PE

[BruceMuzz]

Whereas' date=' I am sure just the opposite is true for ships sailing in North America. If I were to fly to Europe for a cruise that would be a significant portion of my vacation budget leaving less to spend while there. The same holds for Europeans coming here to cruise.

 

Besides the premise of this whole thread is without merit. 4 out of 10 ships (not counting Pride of America) in Europe is not an abandonment of the US/North American market. It is even less so when you consider 2 of those 4 ships are only over there for a season and come right back for the opposing season.

 

PE[/color']

 

American passengers who fly to cruise on my ship in Europe also spend twice as much as the American passengers who sail on it from a North American port.

[cvp]

I suspect two reasons for the abandonment of the UK. Firstly I have no idea how much the port charges are at UK ports but I suspect they would make eyes water.

 

Secondly the UK have recently levies a massive airline passenger duty charge which will make flights from the UK incredibly expensive. See here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-11664560

 

Yes, the difference in price between flights from and flights to UK is now very noticeable, especially to those who fly one way and cruise the other.

 

My upcoming "free" flights (FF miles) show $163 TO the UK and $403 FROM the UK in taxes/surcharges.

 

I've even contemplated using the 30 pound anywhere-in-Britain-to anywhere-in Ireland rail-ferry fare to get cheaper fares to the US from Dublin.

 

That's why it's nice (at least for me) to have a healthy range of transatlantic cruise traffic to/from the UK. There's always Cunard, and $403 goes a long way towards subsidising the fare!

[4774Papa]

 

When 7 years old, I walked my 5 year old sister home from school to find an empty house with no mother or father, no clothes, and no furniture. Had we been abandoned? As we sat on the front steps with my sister sobbing, I tried to be brave and strong for her. Our next door neighbor came running over to invite us for milk and cookies. She explained that our parents were moving everyting to a new BIG house and would be back for us at supper time. We grew to love the new big house, which is still the focus of happy childhood memories of home, hearth & family. But the initial gut wrenching fear of abandonment is remembered, as well.

 

Are there any parallels between my childhood fears of abondonment and NCLs major foray to Europe? What do you think?

 

 

Sorry, but I fail to see any correlation between your childhood experience and NCLs plans. NCL is going where the market is going. We loved our Med cruise on the GEM last July, and plan another out of Barcelona in March. The caribbean just doesn't interest me that much, since I like going to historical sites and I can go to the beach a few miles from home.

[insidecabin]

Since I sail in Europe most of the year, I base my statements and beliefs on the daily, weekly, monthly, and seasonal financial reports for my ship - and the others in the fleet.

The confidentiality agreement I signed with my company does not allow me to post specific facts, but the European passengers we carried in 2010 spent nearly double every day what the American passengers spent.

 

So although you may BELIEVE that Europe is having a hard time, and you BELIEVE that Europeans do not spend as much onboard as Americans, my company is enjoying record revenues and profits from those very same people.

 

Does that include all revenues including casinos?

[Don Haynes]

Alaska took the cruise ships for granted, that they would always be there, and raised their taxes considerably. To their surprise many cruise ships left for greener pastures elsewhere. Simply put, the cruise lines are going to position their ships where they will earn the most profit... Wouldn't you? After all, new cruise ships run over $500 million each, depending upon size some over a $1 billion...

[insidecabin]

it is possible to cut the cost of leaving the UK by flying via a european city on seperate tickets.

[Uniall]

Whereas' date=' I am sure just the opposite is true for ships sailing in North America. If I were to fly to Europe for a cruise that would be a significant portion of my vacation budget leaving less to spend while there. The same holds for Europeans coming here to cruise.[/color']

 

Besides the premise of this whole thread is without merit. 4 out of 10 ships (not counting Pride of America) in Europe is not an abandonment of the US/North American market. It is even less so when you consider 2 of those 4 ships are only over there for a season and come right back for the opposing season.

 

PE

 

Planer's Edge,

 

I agree with your observation that the greater the expenditure for travel to and from the ship, the less the available funds for the cruise.

 

However, as the starter of this thread, I take issue with your comment that "the premise of this thread is wtihout merit."

 

Please note that I took no position or asserted any proposition. I quoted NCL's press release and asked the question if this constituted "abandonment" of the US market. By your own admission, out of 10 ships, 2 are pulled completely and 2 pulled half time. That's a 30% reduction in US based service with leaving NOLA as a base after doing the same in LA.

 

Would you not agree that these facts are enough to open the subject for discussion?

[Uniall]

Sorry, but I fail to see any correlation between your childhood experience and NCLs plans. NCL is going where the market is going. We loved our Med cruise on the GEM last July, and plan another out of Barcelona in March. The caribbean just doesn't interest me that much, since I like going to historical sites and I can go to the beach a few miles from home.

 

:eek: Now here's an interesting clash of ideas. Two retired attorneys, both lovers of history and learned in ancient civilazations disagreeing over the use of a humorous childhood memory as a literary device to open a discussion.

 

:D I can only hope we meet on some cruise and finish the evening with lively converation over brandy in the cigar room. You might want to look at NCL's Jade cruise to Israel, Egypt, Cyprus and Turkey, 10/15/11.

 

 

John

 

PS

:confused:Chicago jurories seemed to like my folksy stories. Don't such ancedotes play well in your home state of Georgia ?

[cvp]

Sorry, but I fail to see any correlation between your childhood experience and NCLs plans. NCL is going where the market is going. We loved our Med cruise on the GEM last July, and plan another out of Barcelona in March. The caribbean just doesn't interest me that much, since I like going to historical sites and I can go to the beach a few miles from home.

 

Obviously the OP wasn't trying to derive any correlation between NCL's plans and the childhood fears of abandonment, but rather the childhood fears and his current fears of abandonment.

 

In any case, as soon as the Concierge comes running over with an invitation for milk and cookies, all will be well! :D

 

As to the historical sites, the wider Caribbean has its share (Aztec ruins etc.).

 

And then there's beaches and then there's beaches! I've cowered behind windbreaks on Corwall's best on both days of the British summer, and dipped my feet into the cold Estoril Atlantic, as well as the San Diego Pacific. Caribbean beaches leave only the debate about which sunscreen to use!;)

[Planer's Edge]

Planer's Edge,

 

I agree with your observation that the greater the expenditure for travel to and from the ship, the less the available funds for the cruise.

 

However, as the starter of this thread, I take issue with your comment that "the premise of this thread is wtihout merit."

 

Please note that I took no position or asserted any proposition. I quoted NCL's press release and asked the question if this constituted "abandonment" of the US market. By your own admission, out of 10 ships, 2 are pulled completely and 2 pulled half time. That's a 30% reduction in US based service with leaving NOLA as a base after doing the same in LA.

 

Would you not agree that these facts are enough to open the subject for discussion?

Yes, the subject is open for discussion. But, the merit of the discussion does mot seem to be there for the abandonment theory.

 

Since the Jade was reflagged/renamed (2008?) she has been in Europe year round along with 2 other ships joining her seasonally. The only change the news release brings up is the addition of one more ship staying in Europe year round in 2013. So, by that bit of information it would seem that there is a shift going on. But, the news release does not say anything about the placement of the new ship launching in the Spring of 2013. Where oh where will the new ship be ported? My guess is that like most new ships coming into the fleet, NCL will place her in New York :mad: and give the rest of the "world" the hand me down, which possibly puts a "new" ship in New Orleans.

 

So, the final piece of this incomplete puzzle is the new ships about to be built.

 

Besides look what this thread has become, not so much what is happening with the deployment of the NCL fleet, but what a crappy company NCL is and what a crappy product they have to offer. :(

 

PE

[newmexicoNita]

Is NCL abandoning you?

 

Most NCL Cruisers have just 3 considerations in choosing a cruise line:

1. Low Price

2. Low Price

3. Low Price

That's as far as their brand loyalty goes.

 

NCL has just three considerations when choosing which ports to send their ships:

1. Higher Profit

2. Higher Profit

3. Higher Profit

That's as far as their loyalty to you will go.

 

The Europeans have more money, it's worth more dollars, and they spend more of it onboard than Americans do.

 

Where do you think NCL will be sending their ships?

 

I don't think the majority of Europians have more spendable income right now. They are suffering just like those in our country and the euro is in big trouble. This isn't 2009 in case you didn't know. They may spend more on board, I do not know about that, but they do not spend more tipping.

 

Nita

[swedish weave]

Besides look what this thread has become' date=' not so much what is happening with the deployment of the NCL fleet, but what a crappy company NCL is and what a crappy product they have to offer. :([/color']

 

PE

 

 

HOW TRUE !!!! Dissing NCL seems to be a popular sport among those who prefer other cruise lines. Many of whom haven't experienced the pleasure of cruising on NCL !!!

[Planer's Edge]

HOW TRUE !!!! Dissing NCL seems to be a popular sport among those who prefer other cruise lines. Many of whom haven't experienced the pleasure of cruising on NCL !!!

 

The sadder part, however, is that it happens on all of the boards here. Some people seem to take on this activity as a sport.

 

PE