Dress Code

[notjaded]

Goodness no... I’d defect if they were.

 

I’m the one who threw out the comment about “tacky khakis” so perhaps a bit of context for the non-Americans.

 

There is nothing wrong with the color “khaki” (beige or tan or light brown). What is awful is the “grab and wear” mentality of many khaki wearers who just run to The Gap, grap a 36x30 pair plus an XL button down shirt and toss them on straight from the bag. The mentality is “that’s my size, no need to try on” and “it’s advertised as wrinkle free do I’ll never have to iron again”.

 

There was a wave during the first dot.com boom when scores of companies switched to business casual dress codes to attract younger workers (business casual in those days meaning “nicer than jeans, with a collared shirt, tie optional” and the staples of the typical American wardrobe changed overnight.

 

For those of us who still liked to (or had to, for corporate dress codes) dress in more tailored clothing, it was awful. I’d walk into women’s wear shops looking for nice pants and only find the same androgynous choices as the guys had... polo shirts and flat-front or pleated cotton pants (khakis). Dresses were less common to see for many years with the racks giving way to pants and skirts and buttondown/knit shirts like the men wore.

 

Thankfully that dark time has passed. But some people still wear that style of “help desk chic” and in all my travels. I’ve only seen it on Americans. (And how do I know they are Americans? Because they are loud... and they tell everyone.)

 

Nice tan slacks and an ironed butondown, on the other hand, totally lovely look for casual. My own dear companion loves his. I won’t let him wear his “dad khakis or dad jeans” in public though... those are now relegated to around the house.

 

(And yes, I’m a born and raised US citizen, before anyone starts in on me culture bashing. I’m also fed up with people going out in public looking like slobs!)

 

Just curious...are you the kind of self-loathing American who sports a phony English accent? Not saying that you are, but I went to graduate school with several, and have met a few since. They all seem to carry very profound novels wherever they go. Their noses are upturned and they are well-dressed.

 

I've never met a person who had a phony English accent who dressed casually.

Edited February 10, 2018 by notjaded

[T&C Fulham]

I continue to think some of the posts here must be tongue in cheek.

 

And how soon they can develop into a slanging match.

 

Just curious...are you the kind of self-loathing American who sports a phony English accent?

 

Can we keep the conversation constructive and not destructive, please.

[notjaded]

I continue to think some of the posts here must be tongue in cheek.

 

And how soon they can develop into a slanging match.

 

Just curious...are you the kind of self-loathing American who sports a phony English accent?

 

Can we keep the conversation constructive and not destructive, please.

 

First you want to tell people how to dress. Now, you want to tell people how to talk?

 

How come you did not admonish those who bashed America and American dress styles? That might have warranted a rebuke.

[T&C Fulham]

OK. You win.

 

You are Not Jaded and live in Paradise.

 

I've better things to do than argue. I'm off until you get bored putting the world right.

 

Tony

[Wendy The Wanderer]

I really do hope that this conversation is not typical of what goes on on the ships. Looking forward very much to our first Seabourn adventure in the fall and truly believe the passengers will be a congenial bunch as they are on the other luxury lines that we've taken. We will be avoiding formal night entirely, and yes, my husband will be wearing khaki-coloured pants on that and other nights. Because his very nicely-fitting black jeans are a no-no.

 

And if someone can tell me where to find well-fitted casual trousers for a typical man in his 70's, please tell me, and I will go out and buy them. I assure you his shirts fit just fine.

 

Oh, and I do not own a cocktail dress, but will be attired nicely nevertheless.

[difranco]

What is more important, no khaki or using the hand sanitizer when entering a restaurant ? One can irritate you, the other, or lack of, can irritate you a lot more.

By the way I must drag out some of my beige attire before the next cruise.

[sanne]

I am on the Encore right now. No one needs worry what they should wear. As long as it’s not jeans everything else is seen after 6. There are some younger couples who look very trendy in their after 6 wear that us oldies would think appropriate for going shopping.

[jenidallas]

Just curious...are you the kind of self-loathing American who sports a phony English accent? Not saying that you are, but I went to graduate school with several, and have met a few since. They all seem to carry very profound novels wherever they go. Their noses are upturned and they are well-dressed.

 

I've never met a person who had a phony English accent who dressed casually.

 

Bless your heart... that’s cute. Have you ever heard a Texan try to affect a British accent? It’s awful.

 

I’ve luckily run into very few ugly Americans (and I mean ugly in terms of behavior, not appearance) on Seabourn sailings. But I hardly think it’s snobbish to be embarrassed by their behavior.

[ReneeFLL]

This discussion has been going on for years on the luxury line threads. It is getting tedious. Society in the Western cultures has changed in the direction of casual. Here where I live folks don't dress up for church anymore. Bankers come to work casual. And the list goes on. That is also true on the American luxury cruise lines. The debate is really over. That disappoints some of the old guard who want to obscure the paunch and wrinkles (I can claim a bit of both) with fancy dress. But fancy dress as a requirement is history. Period. What amazes me is the willingness of some of the fancy dress stalwarts to bare almost all posing nearly naked on the pool deck during the day. What a contrast!!

 

People wearing pool attire (or other attire) at the pool is what is expected of them since it is a pool! Fancy dress requirements aren’t history. It’s the non-caring people that want it to be history. As they say give an inch and someone will want to take a mile because that suits them better. I call that entitlement. If you don’t want to dress according to the rules then go somewhere else. It’s that easy. I have read comments from men that they have to wear a suit and tie to work so they don’t want to wear one on the ship. What a lousy excuse. My husband also wears a suit and tie, but that doesn’t stop him from dressing formally when that's expected. If we don’t feel like dressing up then we just eat elsewhere. Again, it’s that easy.

What one wears to the pool has nothing to do with the rules for the dining room. People should stick with the rules because that’s what they are there for. It looks like Seabourn isn’t enforcing them which they should. :(

I live in South Florida and it’s also more casual here, but if there are dress requirements then I would hope that people would have the courtesy to abide by them. We have also mostly cruised in the Caribbean since we live about 5 miles from a port. On formal nights we still dress formal even since Celebrity has turned their formal nights into “chic nights”.:rolleyes:

 

And I can remember when men wore jackets and ties to board an airplane. Quaint, isn't it? And so mid twentieth century!

My husband wouldn’t be caught dead in boarding a plane in anything else but a suit and tie. :D :D:D

I have joined this thread very late but this is an issue which concerned us on our last Seabourn cruise. We completed a 14 day Carib cruise on the Odyssey only a few weeks ago. Before leaving home we were aware that SB had relaxed their dress codes since our cruise prior and even bearing this is mind we were very disappointed at the attire of many fellow guests. We saw hawaii shirts in the main dining room in the evening, thongs in the MDR on formal night. Even at breakfast, where no real dress codes applies some of the gear belonged only on the pool deck or in the gym. What was most disappointing was that SB to our knowledge never seemed to enforce their dress codes. We are Australian were casual is the order of the day but what we experienced was appalling and unfortunately it does to a degree spoil the overall ambiance of a venue, particularly on formal night. We noticed such a decline that we will probably return to Silversea, where I understand the dress standards are more rigorously maintained. Also, off topic, Seabourn seemed to ignore the behaviour of children in the pool. Toddlers in diapers in the pool, rowdy behaviour, bombing into the pool etc. etc. Made us question what direction Seabourn is moving in.

I came on here to read about the Seabourn threads to learn about them since we are thinking about trying them out. After reading the last comments, it seems like they aren’t any different than Celebrity or Royal when it comes to sticking with their rules. I thought Seabourn was better, but I guess not. I will continue to look elsewhere or just stick with the 2 cruise lines I have been on. How disappointing.

 

 

I think being in the Caribbean has a lot to do with this - it is more a 'holiday' cruise than a visiting interesting places one, and will appeal to people with children and those who expect to dress very casually on their 'holiday'.

 

I feel sometimes staff are a bit overwhelmed by the number of people who are not 'properly' dressed, and in a way understandably find it difficult to enforce the expected dress codes. Difficult to turn away from the dining room about half the people turning up for dinner, I guess.

We have mostly cruised in the Caribbean, but we abide by the dress code. If we don’t want to then we eat somewhere else. It’s unfortunate that others don’t like to follow the rules. I don't think the staff would be so overwhelmed if SB would enforce them. Passengers will learn that they must go by the rules or eat at some other place. I highly doubt that SB wouldn't be able to fill the cabins because of rule enforcement. There are always others that would take their place.

Edited February 10, 2018 by ReneeFLL

[SLSD]

Wow! So it is ok to insult Americans on this board? (And others are well?) And elderly men in their khaki pants? I'm not so sure that this is a fun or helpful place to be.

 

Help desk attire? How snobby can one get? Why not try a bit of tact and kindness?

[suspaul]

We are probably in the minority of the many posters here but Seabourn is not a line we’d choose to travel with. I understand dress code guidelines and it wouldn’t be a deal breaker NOT to wear jeans in the evening onboard, the deal breaker for us would be the attitude I’ve noted reading this post.

 

 

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[SLSD]

suspaul, I totally agree with you. The good news is that I did not meet people on our recent Seabourn cruise with this kind of attitude. Sometimes it is much easier to be unkind and insulting when you are not face to face.

[suspaul]

Perhaps you’re right SLSD, this has just rubbed me the wrong way reading such sanctimonious bull with the holier than thou attitudes. It is easy to hide behind cover and bully. I’m glad you enjoyed your recent sailing with Seabourn, I appreciate your take on this.

 

 

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[SLSD]

suspaul, We had such a great time on our Seabourn cruise, I don't even remember in detail how people were dressed. We always try to adhere to the dress code, but, after all, we are Americans and Texans to boot---so what do we know? My husband usually wore his navy sport coat and a tie to dinner just because he looks great in it! And yes, he owns the dreaded khaki pants and sometimes wears them with the navy sport coat--or wore dressier gray slacks. I took along a number of classic dresses (mostly black) with a pretty skirt and knit top for other evenings. I varied my looks with different jewelry and scarves.

 

I did notice some unusual dress among the Brits--but unusual in that it was not what I am used to (brightly colored pants on men, etc). It amused me and I thought it was great fun! Many of the bright pants men had big personalities to go along with their pants! And yes, they were loud! You would have thought they were Americans, but I knew they were not---because of their pants. (This is all with me laughing.)

 

Please don't rule out a Seabourn cruise because of comments on this board! It's a lovely cruise line with some of the friendliest passengers.

[suspaul]

Thanks again SLSD and we have something else in common as we too are Texans, living in the Clear Lake area of Houston, near NASA and Johnson Space Center.

 

 

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[jenidallas]

We seem to have a lot of folks jumbling all sorts of terms up. There is “casual vs. formal”, “tacky vs. elegant”, “ill-fitting vs. tailored”.

 

I see nothing wrong with casual attire when the dress code calls for it. What chaps me is individuals who dress sloppy (but within dress code) who want to give a side-eye to what others are wearing. If someone is squeezed into a sequined evening gown that is two sizes too small, I laugh I overhear that person commenting on how atrocious it is that not everyone is in a long dress.

 

 

I’m not going to apologize either for being embarrassed that the standard of everyday dress has gone dramatically downhill to the point that corporations often have to counsel employees on what “business casual” actually is. It’s unfortunate that the written code doesn’t always translate to good judgment.

 

 

I’ve honestly seen very little on Seabourn that is a problem... it almost always either complies with the actual code (or however that party interpreted it) or it looks pulled together (even if overly casual). The exceptions have almost always been people who blatantly thought the dress code did NOT apply to them.

[SLSD]

suspaul, We live in Dallas, close to SMU.

[notjaded]

We seem to have a lot of folks jumbling all sorts of terms up.

 

I agree completely. And, I like your good humor.

 

I just wonder why the need to conflate troubling behavior with being "American?" I could name a few nationalities too, but I would consider it boorish to publicly demean a nationhood of people because of the manner skill-set of a few.

 

For those who have not experienced Seabourn, do come aboard. The vast majority of its passengers are friendly and welcoming. The remainder just quietly go to their cabins and grumble. :)

[Flamin_June]

I'm confused about all these Khaki Pants.

Are people refering to what I know as Chinos ?

'Khaki pants' sounds like some sort of army-issue undergarment.

[SLSD]

Yes, khaki pants and chinos are one and the same. They are NOT dress pants and certainly are not formal, but are an accepted pant for a man to wear with a navy blazer. It is considered a classic look in the United States. There are dress khakis (believe it or not) and also more casual cotton khakis. These are not army pants are any such thing. I honestly do not understand the objections. They are not as casual as jeans at all.

___________________________

-Do play with different colored bottoms, as long as they're not navy or black (you'll look like you're wearing a mismatched dark suit). Light khaki, olive green, gray, brown, or even light blue trousers will look professional if styled correctly. -Any color dress shoes go well with navy, from black to Merlot.Aug 7, 2014

How To Wear A Navy Blazer - Business Insider

 

www.businessinsider.com/how-to-wear-a-navy-blazer-2014-8

______________________________________________

 

 

[Flamin_June]

Thanks SLSD - and I agree - a classic look: stylishly casual, and casualy formal

 

[difranco]

Shall we call a trouse on all fronts khaki and move onto a new subject ?

Sorry, typo, I meant truce. After all trouse are Close fitting breaches worn in Ireland. Well, that could be the new subject, especially if in fifty shades of khaki !

[Bestie098]

At least nobody has yet suggested that a Scottish kilt would be appropriate attire!

 

As for khaki (and other) men formal wear that fit, someone was asking where to buy - we suggest ctshirts.com

[notjaded]

At least nobody has yet suggested that a Scottish kilt would be appropriate attire!

 

As for khaki (and other) men formal wear that fit, someone was asking where to buy - we suggest ctshirts.com

 

On our recent cruise, a gentleman wore one on format wn l night.

[jenidallas]

I think chinos and a navy blazer are perfectly appropriate. That’s what my fiancé wore many nights on our last sailing.

 

I think of “khakis” more as those beige 100% cotton trousers, sometimes with extra pockets, sold at Old Navy or The Gap.