Smoking ?

[markham]

While Ralf has made the argument that everyone has rights, it's clear to me at least that he has made a weak case:

 

1- Everyone has rights and my right to enjoy the beautiful Observation Bar before dinner on the Quest world cruise and protect my health trumps ANY argument that those who choose to smoke and pollute the room with carcinogens have a superior position in terms of access and stay rights in that space;

 

2- The science of second hand smoke as a source of danger to individuals is well grounded and accepted. (Show me a medical doctor who claims inhaling it is good for one's health and I will demur); and

 

3- The sentiment about protecting one's family and fellow passengers is adequately described in this thread. It's a human issue which has been treated adequately by restaurants and bars in much of the world years ago.

 

So... What's the plan Seabourn Management? I certainly hope you are not afraid to address smoking in the Observation Bar in the coming months.

 

Here's to logic and happy sailing!

[lincslady]

I think most of those on this board who don't want to be in the same room as smokers have had quite a reasonable attitude - smokers should have a room of their own where they can indulge in peace. I for one am not saying that smoking should not be allowed anywhere at all on ships BUT only in a dedicated place.

[MARIANH]

 

So... What's the plan Seabourn Management? I certainly hope you are not afraid to address smoking in the Observation Bar in the coming months.

 

Here's to logic and happy sailing!

 

I have checked with Seabourn UK. They have not heard of any plans to change the current smoking policy. However, they they kindly offered to get an update from Seattle.

 

Don't hold your breath. Unless of course you are in the Observation Lounge.:rolleyes:

[fairbourne]

Yes, life sucks sometimes ; but death beats it in spades. I have lost a parent, two parents in law and a sister in law to smoking and believe me it hurts. They died in ignorance, there is no excuse anymore for this. The facts are known - smoking kills. There is no such thing as a clean smoker or clean second hand smoke, it is damaging to health and should not be condoned. And the remedy is easy and not costly given the will to do something.

 

Of course there may be other threats to worry about and some we can mitigate. Others are outside of our control - smoking is not one of them.

 

Time for bed.

 

For your words of wisdom and wit - I sometimes wish I hadn't responded to some posters on CC but if our experiences make someone out there just stop and think then it's worth it.

 

 

"Don't hold your breath. Unless of course you are in the Observation Lounge.:rolleyes:" ;):)

[fairbourne]

I think most of those on this board who don't want to be in the same room as smokers have had quite a reasonable attitude - smokers should have a room of their own where they can indulge in peace. I for one am not saying that smoking should not be allowed anywhere at all on ships BUT only in a dedicated place.

 

Lincslady - I think this is the best idea to keep all happy and maybe, just maybe Seabourn will pay heed!

[fairbourne]

Yes the cost to Princess (Carnival Corp.) was over 46 million in damages of which Carnival was on the hook for the first 30 million as a deductible such as currently in the Costa Concordia mishap.

There is no fire protection on the balconies of any Seabourn ship save and except fire retardent materials for balcony furniture which was mandated on all Carnival brands fleet wide after the 2006 incident.

 

check the youtube video showing the damages!

 

 

ST - this is incredible. You would think wouldn't you that they would want to protect their interests and to have a free for all smoking allowed in staterooms and balconies is absurd. I hadn't given smoking in staterooms much thought, but now there are so many scary and life-threatening scenarios that could happen with a careless smoker it really beggars belief that it's allowed to continue. A fire mid-Atlantic - doesn't bear thinking about!

 

My DH is in the oil industry and on the rigs they have this smoking policy:

 

Smoking is allowed in one place on the deck.

Smoking is allowed in one room inside which has exhaust ventilation straight to the outside - it is not circulated through the main A/C system and when the door to this room is opened the air is sucked in not out. (Someone mentioned this to be a problem on SS when in Le Champagne and the door to the next door Cigar Lounge opened it released smoke into Le Champagne)

Smoking is banned everywhere else including their cabins.

This seems sensible to me and wouldn't cruiselines have to take more or less the same precautions as the oil industry in keeping people safe at sea?

 

When I worked in the hotel business, the smoking ban in the UK came into effect in my last couple of years in the industry and we all feared loss of business particularly in the bars. Didn't happen. The smokers moved outside to a special smoking place (some selfish ones do tend to congregate at the doorways and don't get me started about people smoking at the entrance of hospitals attached to their drips!) and the non-smokers returned in their droves.

 

So Seabourn if you do read this, take the results from the hotel industry as a good example - provide a Smoking Room.

 

It seriously won't affect your business but smoking seriously affects our health.

[Menelaus]

I for one read and understood perfectly your post, I was merely indicating that as you had made reference to quote:"How in the he** did we get to be old enough to afford a luxury cruise, with all our parents and or their friends, teachers etc. blowing smoke all over us!"endquote. Who knows, but thankfully the world and it's attitude towards smoking has moved on and we are not subjected to this as much anymore.

 

I realise that in re-reading this bit of your post it was possibly an "off the cuff" remark, however, it hit home with me as the daughter of two life-long smokers (who had many friends who also smoked) and who sadly are no longer around when they might well still be - if they had not smoked! So mock me if you will, but for me this is a serious subject. There is no such thing as a clean smoker!

 

No intention to mock. Just trying to see both sides to any agument as I tend to do. I see that it will be Claymores at dawn if I am not careful.;)

[MARIANH]

No intention to mock. Just trying to see both sides to any agument as I tend to do. I see that it will be Claymores at dawn if I am not careful.;)

 

Would that be Claymores Bar in Stirling or the Claymore Hotel in Arochar ( former clan seat of the Macfarlanes) ?

 

In any event dawn is far too early for me to be drinking.

 

Better stop now as I wouldn't want this post to get axed.

[fairbourne]

No intention to mock. Just trying to see both sides to any agument as I tend to do. I see that it will be Claymores at dawn if I am not careful.;)

 

Beware of Greeks bearing gifts ;):) - Just as well I am safely tucked behind the walls of Troy! LOL! :)

[fairbourne]

Would that be Claymores Bar in Stirling or the Claymore Hotel in Arochar ( former clan seat of the Macfarlanes) ?

 

In any event dawn is far too early for me to be drinking.

 

Better stop now as I wouldn't want this post to get axed.

 

Oh MarianH - LOL!LOL!LOL!LOL!

[MARIANH]

Oh MarianH - LOL!LOL!LOL!LOL!

 

Just trying to lighten up a bit :o

[AndSvet]

When I worked in the hotel business, the smoking ban in the UK came into effect in my last couple of years in the industry and we all feared loss of business particularly in the bars. Didn't happen. The smokers moved outside to a special smoking place (some selfish ones do tend to congregate at the doorways and don't get me started about people smoking at the entrance of hospitals attached to their drips!) and the non-smokers returned in their droves.

 

Claymores Bar Stirling

 

http://www.google.co.uk/maps?q=&layer=c&z=17&iwloc=A&sll=56.119056,-3.938860&cid=10391084624280022174&cbp=13,38.0,12.2,0,0&panoid=HAipTH9ua733LfeNrQdAfQ&q=claymores+bar+stirling&ei=MaxHT56uBIa38QOY2dyaDg&sa=X&oi=local_result&ct=streetview-image-link&cd=1&resnum=4&ved=0CAoQnwIoADAD

 

Their "smokeouttery" seat is on the main street......yeuch!

[MARIANH]

I have just had replies from Seabourn to my questions as follows:

 

Q - Are there any plans imminent to stop smoking in the Observation Lounge?

 

A - " .. no change with regards to policy in the Observation Lounge"

 

Q - Are there any smoke/ fire detectors on balconies? And what system is in suites?

 

A- " we have different types of fire detectors on the ship - smoke/heat/ flame. In the suites we have smoke detectors which are not sensitive to cigarette smoke."

 

So, Observation Lounge - anyone who feels strongly about this may wish to write to Seattle, as I will.

 

And fire/smoke detection on balconies - they avoided answering my specific question , so Seabourntraveller may well be correct ie no detectors.

 

As to the in suite detectors, anyone know if these are photoelectric or ionisation devices? And does insensitivity to tobacco smoke mean they are insensitive also to other sources of smoke eg fire?

[LoveBora]

I wonder if they have sprinkler systems in the staterooms. I'd feel better about the smoking safety if there were. They should have them on the verandahs, as well, because wasn't that where a Princess fire started several years ago?:eek:

[markham]

We boarded 200 new segment passengers in Singapore yesterday to replace those who joined in Ft Lauderdale or Cape Town and left same day on this Quest world cruise.

 

This evening in the Observation Bar I observed that the one chain smoker and some of her cohort who did much the same by selfishly burdening passengers and staff with their sad habit have left the ship in Singapore. This is a terrific change for everyone´s cardio-pulmonary systems. Hurray!

 

So we are back to our long term and very popular guest who smokes there on occasion and so far no one else is smoking. This means that I won't be driven out of this beautiful space this segment, or at least I hope that's the case.

 

I continue to hope that Seabourn delivers a non-smoking policy pronto for the sake of all of us. And if smokers have to head across deck 10 and down one flight to the Sky Bar out of doors so what? Better that they do what they do in the open air than around the rest of us indoors!

 

Happy sailing!

[Roxburgh]

We just left Odyssey this morning after a 26 day cruise from Sydney to Los Angeles. While the cruise was excellent in most respects, for the first time in five Seabourn cruises, smoking was a problem.

 

First, our neighbours smoked heavily. You could sometimes smell the smoke when we were on our Verandah and we could often smell it in the hall and especially if their door was open. I must emphasise that we could not smell their smoke when we were in our suite. But the Verandah is also 'our space' and smoke is no respecter of privacy.

 

Second, we had a couple of pipe smokers and cigar smokers on-board. They liked to smoke on deck behind Seabourn Square (deck 7) where, under current Seabourn rules, they were perfectly entitled to smoke. Unfortunately, and again, smoke is no respecter of boundaries and, depending on the wind, the whole of the deck was permeated with the smell of their pipes and/or cigars. On a couple of occasions, the smell even reached up to the Colonnade.

 

The smoking 'club' liked to congregate up on deck 9 next to the Sky Bar. I did not find that to be a problem. Neither did I find smoking in the Observation Bar to be a problem.

 

My guesstimate is that smokers made up somewhere between 5% and 10% of the passengers. It is a shame that such a small number can inconvenience 90% of the other guests. In my view Seabourn needs to be more restrictive in its smoking policy.

 

1. No smoking in suites or on verandas.

 

2. No cigars or pipes.

 

3. No smoking indoors (i.e. Observation Bar) unless Seabourn chooses to create a 'smoking room' such as is found on Silversea and Regent.

[Seabourntraveller]

I wonder if they have sprinkler systems in the staterooms. I'd feel better about the smoking safety if there were. They should have them on the verandahs, as well, because wasn't that where a Princess fire started several years ago?:eek:

 

ALl Seabourn ships have sprinkler systems in staterooms and public areas just not on the balconies.

[lincslady]

Roxburgh - many thanks for the excellent photos, and could I just endorse your suggestions 1, 2 and 3 regarding smoking on board.

[fairbourne]

Roxburgh

 

 

Thanks for the photos (although you are naughty with the reference to Costa!;))

 

Spot on with the smoking and yes the few do spoil it for the greater non-smoking majority. Although they will argue otherwise I'm sure.

 

Pipe smoking - just the thought makes me literally want to throw up! We had the same problem with cigar smoke drifting up to the Collonade - we moved as we had finished our meal but it could have been a nuisance.

 

I had a further thought - they don't allow irons, candles etc in the staterooms, as they are a fire risk, so how come lighting a cigarette or cigar is deemed risk free?

[Jaffa]

Hmmm

 

I am a non smoker.

 

It seems by previous posts that some people here are being condesending in their posts towards other passengers that are obeying the rules, smoking in designated area's and following instructions. These passengers are in fact following the rules and doing nothing wrong.

 

Those that seem to be having the most problems do not accept that their 95% of smoke free public ship space is adequate for them.

 

Even though these same posters know the designated smoking area's, they still choose to put themselves in harms way and then choose to complain about it. Huhh!

Sorry, but l just don't get it.

 

its always been clear to me to keep clear of those area's, and l do.

Its never been an issue to me.

 

I have on one occasion experienced discomfort when a fellow passenger was delibratley flouting the rules, but a quiet word to staff had the problem solved with respect and dignity to all concerned.

Thats the way l do things.

 

I often see smokers enjoying the non smoking areas smoke free.

I have never heard any of them complaining that these area's should be free to smoke in.

Except for the the previously mentioned issue l have found all other smokers to treat the ship and their fellow passengers with the greatest respect.

 

I try to discourage smoking where l can, but l do understand the fundamentals of addiction

and allow for this in my thinking and actions, the same as l do for the abuse of alcohol. Which to me is a much bigger problem on ships than smoking is.

 

Even though some very intelligent and normally thoughtful posters here know what they are signing up for when booking and cruising, they still choose to denigrate and complain

Knowing full well what they are signing up for.

 

Sorry, but there is no common sense to that.

 

If you put your hand in the fire you will get burnt, so why do it?

Don't come complaining to me waving your hand around.

 

If smokers were uncontroled and un-regulated then you may have a point.

 

I do not find it unreasonable for there to be 1 indoor weather protected ship space (observation lounge) for smokers to enjoy.

 

If not the observation lounge where else seated indoor weather protected do you suggest??

 

with all of the remainder of the internal of the ship to enjoy smoke free l can only conclude that there are some very selfish people out there.

 

In my long experience of cruising, selfish is not a term l would give the vast majority of those smokers who l have come in contact with.

 

I have decided after reading a number of the posts here, that l will in fact write to Seattle as a non smoker and congradulate them on their choice of internal smoking venue as it is a most common sense decision. I will also tell them l think their smoking policy is both fair and reasonable to all passengers and should be maintained.

 

I will let you know thier reply.

 

Thats what l love about democracy, every voice has meaning.

 

Please excuse my spelling, l don't have spell check.

[Roxburgh]

Hmmm

 

I am a non smoker.

 

It seems by previous posts that some people here are being condesending in their posts towards other passengers that are obeying the rules, smoking in designated area's and following instructions. These passengers are in fact following the rules and doing nothing wrong.

 

Those that seem to be having the most problems do not accept that their 95% of smoke free public ship space is adequate for them.

 

Even though these same posters know the designated smoking area's, they still choose to put themselves in harms way and then choose to complain about it. Huhh!

Sorry, but l just don't get it.

 

its always been clear to me to keep clear of those area's, and l do.

Its never been an issue to me.

 

I have on one occasion experienced discomfort when a fellow passenger was delibratley flouting the rules, but a quiet word to staff had the problem solved with respect and dignity to all concerned.

Thats the way l do things.

 

I often see smokers enjoying the non smoking areas smoke free.

I have never heard any of them complaining that these area's should be free to smoke in.

Except for the the previously mentioned issue l have found all other smokers to treat the ship and their fellow passengers with the greatest respect.

 

I try to discourage smoking where l can, but l do understand the fundamentals of addiction

and allow for this in my thinking and actions, the same as l do for the abuse of alcohol. Which to me is a much bigger problem on ships than smoking is.

 

Even though some very intelligent and normally thoughtful posters here know what they are signing up for when booking and cruising, they still choose to denigrate and complain

Knowing full well what they are signing up for.

 

Sorry, but there is no common sense to that.

 

If you put your hand in the fire you will get burnt, so why do it?

Don't come complaining to me waving your hand around.

 

If smokers were uncontroled and un-regulated then you may have a point.

 

I do not find it unreasonable for there to be 1 indoor weather protected ship space (observation lounge) for smokers to enjoy.

 

If not the observation lounge where else seated indoor weather protected do you suggest??

 

with all of the remainder of the internal of the ship to enjoy smoke free l can only conclude that there are some very selfish people out there.

 

In my long experience of cruising, selfish is not a term l would give the vast majority of those smokers who l have come in contact with.

 

I have decided after reading a number of the posts here, that l will in fact write to Seattle as a non smoker and congradulate them on their choice of internal smoking venue as it is a most common sense decision. I will also tell them l think their smoking policy is both fair and reasonable to all passengers and should be maintained.

 

I will let you know thier reply.

 

Thats what l love about democracy, every voice has meaning.

 

Please excuse my spelling, l don't have spell check.

 

 

If the smoke (rather than the smokers) chose to stay in the designated areas then I could agree with you. Unfortunately, the smoke has a tendency to drift where it wants.

[JaneBP]

>"I try to discourage smoking where l can, but l do understand the fundamentals of addiction and allow for this in my thinking and actions, the same as l do for the abuse of alcohol. Which to me is a much bigger problem on ships than smoking is."

 

In my Seabourn experience, I have dealt with more annoying smokers than drinkers, abusing their drug of choice.

[Jaffa]

The observation lounge is a closed in space.

and is internally ventilated.

 

The only problem is if you enter it.

If like me you don't like the smoke then don't enter it.

How hard is that to understand.

We are talking about 1 and only 1 internal space on the whole ship.

 

We have all the rest of the internals of the ship at our disposal.

 

If it is such a desperate problem then choose another holiday option, its that simple.

There are a huge selection of totally non smoking land vacations and resorts to choose from. I have enjoyed many.

In saying that, l have not had more than 1 issue in regards to smoking onboard in over 25 cruises.

 

I did not post for people to agree with me, l posted because of the condesending attitudes to people who are following the rules and doing the right thing according to those rules.

 

You are knowingly booking a cruiseline with dedicated smoking area's.

You do know what your getting yourself into, Its all there in black and white!

And still people want to blame someone for their discomfort.

Huhh?

 

If you don't want to get hit by a bus then don't jump in front of the damn thing.

And if you do, don't blame the the bus driver or the bus.

 

For goodness sake your the one who jumped.

[Mr Luxury]

 

If you don't want to get hit by a bus then don't jump in front of the damn thing.

And if you do, don't blame the the bus driver or the bus.

 

For goodness sake your the one who jumped.

 

And alas,bus conductors are a thing of the past.

[lincslady]

Sorry Jaffa, but maybe you have not noticed the various posts suggesting that, as happens on some other lines, there is a separate, specially designated, indoor room provided for smokers. I am also of the opinion that the Observation Lounge is spoiled for the vast majority when the smell of the smoke - which drifts and with which the aircon cannot cope at all - is there, even if there is only one smoker present. I do believe in being fair to smokers, which is why I feel that there should be an indoor room as well as some outside space, with some shelter from the weather, for the very few smokers. I would suggest the very top deck on the larger ships, as cigar smoke coming upwards from the back of Seabourn Square has before now spoilt our mealtime in the Colonnade.

 

The hope of some of us is that the Seabourn management read these posts, and might eventually act upon them. I appreciate they are unlikely to ban smoking altogether, but do feel that what I have suggested is reasonable.