Smoking ?

[JaneBP]

Interesting. Your diatribes now have me leaning in favor of the smokers. I have never found any to be unreceptive, and if they are allowed to smoke in the Observation Lounge, so be it. Obviously, the evidence is stacked in your favor, no matter how addicting smoking is.

 

If it is so horrid for you, as your describe, find another cruise line. Otherwise this all sounds like baiting the bully in the playground, who, if left un-annoyed, can play well with others.

[lincslady]

MarianH - I think from Erex's posts you can see that smokers indulge in a bit of wishful thinking - he seemed to think that from 25 to 50% on board would quite likely be smokers. I suppose it is understandable that some smokers feel they have to be almost aggressive in their attitude, knowing that most will not be too happy with them.

 

Human nature. Maybe it would work better if we tried to be extra-nice to them. (Though I doubt it). I can't agree with Jane that none are unreceptive; I have found quite a few who were.

[dhoogheralf]

Hi,

 

Some 2 weeks ago I wrote here that,

from the day this threat was “revitalised” at the end of January 2012,

only six persons accounted for more than 59% of all posts.

 

Since then, I didn’t bother to read this thread again,

as I had the impression that the same arguments ( against smoking ) were without end again and again repeated.

 

However I got curious as why this thread kept returning.

 

And the statistics remain interesting,

because since my last post ( until now ),

only 4 persons accounted for more than 52% of all posts.

 

Kind regards,

Ralf, non-smoker

 

PS Seabourn, should you read this, please don’t change the smoking policy

[fairbourne]

Fairbourne -whereas we always seem to be on the same page about issues Seabourn, we may just be slightly divergent when it comes to questioning a smoker's choice to indulgence his/her " daily pleasure".

 

For me it is all a matter of freedoms and personal choice. I would defend to the last a smokers "right" to kill him/her self. And resist with all the strength I can muster the assumption that he/she has a "right" kill me through his/her indulgence.

 

The sheer arrogance of some smokers in the Observation Lounge is mindboggling (IMHO). It appears to me be along the lines - "OK, so I have a smoking gun and I know it can cause harm ; but I do have a licence to use it. So I will. And if you get hurt, it's your fault for not getting out of the way - not mine". As someone recently pithily descibed it, the " sex and travel" attitude.

 

But there again I could be completely wrong and perhaps we will never know for certain unless / until a hard core smoker or two is kind enough to share with a wider community the rationale for their behaviour in the Observation Lounge. Any takers?

 

Happy to eat crow if my speculation is incorrect. Preferably Seabourn crow, which like all the food on board would no doubt be delicious.

 

Yes spot on MarianH - I just found the words "daily pleasure" to be totally alien in this regard. Oh yes I have no problem whatsoever with anyone wanting to smoke (and the subsequent consequences) but I do object when it can affect my health. So we are still singing from the same hymnsheet! ;):)

 

Now Dhoogheralf - if you read all our posts carefully you would actually understand that which MarianH has so beautifully written that we are not asking people not to smoke, just for some consideration towards others. In fact all of us who are the "huffers" have suggested a smoking room for the "puffers" on board - is this not a good compromise and fair? And try as I did to resist posting again on this thread, it is just such an emotive subject for all that we are all entitled to our say, whatever that may be. I do groan when it is resurrected by some OP who then disappears into cyberspace having wound us all up again, and of course we bite! Ho hum.

 

Anyway life is waaaay too short for all of us, so happy weekend to all - I hope you all have a lovely one, and fingers crossed the sun will continue to shine and the garden will beckon.

 

I have said my piece now for once and for all on smoking on board. Hallelujah! LOL!

 

But I will resurrect those delicious Nigerian Shrimp from time to time!:D

[MARIANH]

Interesting. Your diatribes now have me leaning in favor of the smokers. I have never found any to be unreceptive, and if they are allowed to smoke in the Observation Lounge, so be it. Obviously, the evidence is stacked in your favor, no matter how addicting smoking is.

 

If it is so horrid for you, as your describe, find another cruise line. Otherwise this all sounds like baiting the bully in the playground, who, if left un-annoyed, can play well with others.

 

Yes, interesting. As is your use of the term " diatribes". If you mean this in the Classical sense ie an ethical discourse' ,then I gratefully accept the compliment. However,if you intend the sometimes more modern pejorative sense, I am disappointed.

 

Particularly as all I have been seeking is to articulate issues around smoking as best I can and separate fact from emotion. In the hope of contributing to a wider understanding of the issues so that perhaps we could have a grown up discussion with ,inter alia, proper weight being given to the views of smokers. Sadly, it appears that the smokers who could have added value to the discussion did not wish to engage. The bully did not take the bait - I did try to prod him/her into action but to no avail.

 

However in all of this I have strived not to be personal nor offensive. Would that everyone who posts on these boards was driven by the same creed

 

Almost finally, I would be surprised if you disagree with the amicable fix that others and I proposed repeatedly . Hopefully, in the fullness of time , Seabourn will recognise the undoubted merit of providing a dedicated indoor smoking facility, that not only would satisfy the legitimate needs and "rights" of all their clients but would be a smart move commercially.

 

And finally, I will follow the latest chapter in Fairbourne's Hymm sheet and withdraw from further comment. However I have been known to backslide on occasions. Nigerian shrimp anyone - au natural or smoked?

 

And finally, finally thank you JaneBP for your helpful suggestion that I find another cruise line. I have tried many over the years and for some strange reason I keep coming back to Seabourn . It must be doing something right for me. But if the Observation Lounge proves to be a no go area on my next Quest voyage, it may be time to jump ship. And that would be sad. - at least for me; but maybe not for others.

 

Epilogue - And where has Writer 100 been when we could have done with with his insightful erudition?

 

THE END

[fairbourne]

MarianH

 

I did find writer100 over on the Silversea board earlier this year and reminded him his presence was being missed on SB, but not seen anything from for a while.

 

I have just posted a little ditty for you (and everyone else) over on the "Around the water cooler, off topic ......"

 

Now don't get me started on N.S. - I never did try them smoked but after all this huffing I probably shouldn't ever! LOL! And it only upsets Seabourntraveller when I mention them ........ ;):)

 

Oh happy days .....

[writer100]

MarianH

 

I did find writer100 over on the Silversea board earlier this year and reminded him his presence was being missed on SB, but not seen anything from for a while.

 

I have just posted a little ditty for you (and everyone else) over on the "Around the water cooler, off topic ......"

 

Now don't get me started on N.S. - I never did try them smoked but after all this huffing I probably shouldn't ever! LOL! And it only upsets Seabourntraveller when I mention them ........ ;):)

 

Oh happy days .....

Oh Marianh surely not "The end." I heartily agree with Fairbourne who always warmly recognizes your insightful missives. I think we--or Seabourn--should collect such corresponence and publish it. I can see this particular exchange entitled "The Smoker's Bible", and envision it being placed next to the offering from The Gideons.

Travelers who have ventured to Argentina and flown from Eze (airport) might remember the smoking lounge there. Essentially a sealed room near the duty free area, with double thick glass windows and the kind of heavy air tight doors at either end which close with a resounding thunk. One would imagine that a heavy London fog has been trapped therein. But no, it is the expelled breath of multiple smokers who can be seen puffing and coughing--the latter soundlessly, as the window glass is really thick. When the entry doors do open -- to allow a stumbling figure to emerge, his or her clothes reeking of that familiar foul odor--their exit is accompanied by a swirling toxic cloud that drifts into the general waiting area, sending mothers with small children scrambling to seek safer air.

 

Sounds like a perfect fit for SB. Perhaps such a room could have a slot to allow meals to be pushed through for the occupants, assuming they cannot abandon their cigs. And the dress code would be strictly enforced. (Note how this neatly combines the two most incendiary threads on this forum .)

Fairbourne is quite correct. I was circling the SS site, as some of their itineraries were of interest. (Though not, as it turns out, to She Who Must Be Obeyed.)

We are, in fact, thinking of testing our language skills via a trip to the UK in the fall. Perhaps we could schedule a get together in the Big Smoke (irresistible, that) for SB fans who don't inhale. I'll buy the first round--on the assumption that the party's never going to be any smaller.(Restrictions may apply: no 500 year-old whiskey.)

Of course, those of you resident on the tight little isle may wish to flee to the continent prior to our arrival. Dates will be announced when firm. (Subject to the approval of--well, you know who.)

[fairbourne]

We have missed you and your delightful observations on life. Now a Huffers get-together - that would be a great idea, but why the Big Smoke when we have Auld Reekie? (groan!).

 

Now awa wi ye laddie and hae yersel a guid time wi yer wifie and dinna forgit to weer yer simmit or yer'll be affie cal the noo as ne'er cast a clout till may is oot. :p:D

[MARIANH]

Oh Marianh surely not "The end." I heartily agree with Fairbourne who always warmly recognizes your insightful missives. I think we--or Seabourn--should collect such corresponence and publish it. I can see this particular exchange entitled "The Smoker's Bible", and envision it being placed next to the offering from The Gideons.

Travelers who have ventured to Argentina and flown from Eze (airport) might remember the smoking lounge there. Essentially a sealed room near the duty free area, with double thick glass windows and the kind of heavy air tight doors at either end which close with a resounding thunk. One would imagine that a heavy London fog has been trapped therein. But no, it is the expelled breath of multiple smokers who can be seen puffing and coughing--the latter soundlessly, as the window glass is really thick. When the entry doors do open -- to allow a stumbling figure to emerge, his or her clothes reeking of that familiar foul odor--their exit is accompanied by a swirling toxic cloud that drifts into the general waiting area, sending mothers with small children scrambling to seek safer air.

 

Sounds like a perfect fit for SB. Perhaps such a room could have a slot to allow meals to be pushed through for the occupants, assuming they cannot abandon their cigs. And the dress code would be strictly enforced. (Note how this neatly combines the two most incendiary threads on this forum .)

Fairbourne is quite correct. I was circling the SS site, as some of their itineraries were of interest. (Though not, as it turns out, to She Who Must Be Obeyed.)

We are, in fact, thinking of testing our language skills via a trip to the UK in the fall. Perhaps we could schedule a get together in the Big Smoke (irresistible, that) for SB fans who don't inhale. I'll buy the first round--on the assumption that the party's never going to be any smaller.(Restrictions may apply: no 500 year-old whiskey.)

Of course, those of you resident on the tight little isle may wish to flee to the continent prior to our arrival. Dates will be announced when firm. (Subject to the approval of--well, you know who.)

 

Writer 100 - great to hear your voice again - so to speak.

 

I feel an irresistable urge coming on to renew acquintance with Rules in Maiden Lane. The company of a famous Scrivener and his Handmaiden would be most welcome if it could be factored into that traveller's busy schedule.

 

Rules current rules specify no jacket or tie required but elegant casual appreciated - no shorts. No smoking is allowed and their signature cocktail is a Naughty Grouse. Could suit me to a tee.

 

The Eze enclave seems redolent of the Observation Lounge on a bad day. Please everyone be aware that I had to mention this so as to get back on topic, and avoid having my privileges removed. So its not my fault for backsliding so quickly. I blame that Writer 100 chap and withdrawal symptoms. Addicted - moi?

[turtlemichael]

The "if you don't like it, find another cruise line" argument comes up often not only in threads about smoking and not only on this board. To me it is fundamentally flawed because it implies that none of us can change anything and have to accept things as they are. I don't buy that.

 

As an ex-smoker, and there aren't many things more anti than an "ex", I believe that with enough pressure Seabourn will change as have many other businesses. There is no doubt that smoking is bad for the health of those not smoking such as fellow passengers and, even more critically, employees in proximity who have no practical say. To say to an employee "if you don't like it, resign" would be reprehensible and probably actionable in many jurisdictions.

 

As passive smoking now not only irritates me, makes my clothes stink, makes me feel grubby, makes me sneeze and is bad for my health I'll continue to argue that Seabourn should limit it to places on the ship, if they must allow it, where it does not affect me.

[Seabourntraveller]

The "if you don't like it, find another cruise line" argument comes up often not only in threads about smoking and not only on this board. To me it is fundamentally flawed because it implies that none of us can change anything and have to accept things as they are. I don't buy that.

 

As an ex-smoker, and there aren't many things more anti than an "ex", I believe that with enough pressure Seabourn will change as have many other businesses. There is no doubt that smoking is bad for the health of those not smoking such as fellow passengers and, even more critically, employees in proximity who have no practical say. To say to an employee "if you don't like it, resign" would be reprehensible and probably actionable in many jurisdictions.

 

As passive smoking now not only irritates me, makes my clothes stink, makes me feel grubby, makes me sneeze and is bad for my health I'll continue to argue that Seabourn should limit it to places on the ship, if they must allow it, where it does not affect me.

 

AGREED!

Confine all Smokers in the Launderette Room as a designated spot!:D

[MARIANH]

Good morning and happy World Bagpipes Day to all - especially Fairbourne.

 

Can someone advise please? If for obvious reasons I cannot bring myself to enter the Observation Bar on my next Quest escape, will I be able to enjoy the pianist performing elsewhere on the ship?

 

This query is genuine and not a smokescreen for continuing to post on this thread;)

[electra2008]

Over 15 years ago when I lived in Canada "Tim Hortons" had an area in their donut/coffee shops that was a totaly glassed in room with an incredible air extraction system. We could see them and vice versa everybody happy. Must have been financially viable even then that was before the "ban"

[Mr Luxury]

The problem is that they have taken the most beautiful space on the ship with the best views and deprived nonsmokers of its use. I would much prefer if they took part of the Club, perhaps the raised section near the bar, and gave that to smokers. They could even enclose it with glass as on the triplets to keep smoke from drifting too much. The Club on the large ships is a much less inviting space to begin with.

 

I can't agree about the bar area because this is a place that a lot of guests use to socialise,but agree about the lounge.

The only place for smokers on a ship as far as I am concerned is on dry land outside of any buildings.

[LoveBora]

And the statistics remain interesting,

because since my last post ( until now ),

only 4 persons accounted for more than 52% of all posts.

 

I thought I'd chime in here to change the statistics a bit. My DH and I are non-smokers and are booked on the Sojourn for our first Seabourn cruise. I was very concerned about the booking because of Seabourn's smoking policy, but we decided to go ahead and take a chance. However, if smoking is an issue on our cruise, thus depriving us of using a public space, this will likely be our last Seabourn cruise. Not only is life too short to drink bad wine, it's also too short to be breathing second-hand smoke.

[fairbourne]

Good morning and happy World Bagpipes Day to all - especially Fairbourne.

 

Thank you Mr M - what you saying really is I'm a bit of a windbag!!!! ;):p:D Now Seabourntraveller no need for you to second that!!! LOL!

 

http://www.bagpipesociety.org.uk/international-bagpipe-day/ for anyone interested.

 

Wonderful and witty posts today on a subject I am not going to comment on again.

 

Stubbing out.

[wripro]

Mr Luxury,

 

And don't you think the Observation Lounge is an area where lots of people socialize? Plus it has the great view. At least that raised area of the club could be somewhat partitioned off.

[colliwobbles]

I thought I'd chime in here to change the statistics a bit. My DH and I are non-smokers and are booked on the Sojourn for our first Seabourn cruise. I was very concerned about the booking because of Seabourn's smoking policy, but we decided to go ahead and take a chance. However, if smoking is an issue on our cruise, thus depriving us of using a public space, this will likely be our last Seabourn cruise. Not only is life too short to drink bad wine, it's also too short to be breathing second-hand smoke.

 

 

Your thoughts mirror ours exactly, we were also concerned before booking our first Seabourn cruise later this year, like you it will be our last if smoking is an issue. It is so nice in the UK to now be able to go out and return home without stinking of smoke.

[writer100]

Writer 100 - great to hear your voice again - so to speak.

 

I feel an irresistable urge coming on to renew acquintance with Rules in Maiden Lane. The company of a famous Scrivener and his Handmaiden would be most welcome if it could be factored into that traveller's busy schedule.

 

Rules current rules specify no jacket or tie required but elegant casual appreciated - no shorts. No smoking is allowed and their signature cocktail is a Naughty Grouse. Could suit me to a tee.

 

The Eze enclave seems redolent of the Observation Lounge on a bad day. Please everyone be aware that I had to mention this so as to get back on topic, and avoid having my privileges removed. So its not my fault for backsliding so quickly. I blame that Writer 100 chap and withdrawal symptoms. Addicted - moi?[/quot

Great Scot-- a salute to Fairbourne--Watson. Rules no longer requires a jacket!! Yech. What is the world coming to. Really, no jacket? Didn't they offer unbespoke Yanks the loan of a garment--this was of course some decades ago. I cannot comment on Fairbourne's dialect greeting pending further study. Anything beyond "wee quiverin' beastie" is very much a puzzle to my ear. Err, eye.

Back to smoking. The social impact of cigarette smoking is one thing. But the Sky Bar really does need to be evacuated when someone lights up a cigar in the authorized section on the starboard side. Indeed, as has been pointed out, smoke does drift. And cigar smoke is heavier and far more "distinctive" than mere cigarette smoke.

Ah yes, the Naughty Grouse. Do you remember her first name?

[MARIANH]

Ah yes, the Naughty Grouse. Do you remember her first name?

 

Mona ( Lot).

[hoosier74]

I thought I'd chime in here to change the statistics a bit. My DH and I are non-smokers and are booked on the Sojourn for our first Seabourn cruise. I was very concerned about the booking because of Seabourn's smoking policy, but we decided to go ahead and take a chance. However, if smoking is an issue on our cruise, thus depriving us of using a public space, this will likely be our last Seabourn cruise. Not only is life too short to drink bad wine, it's also too short to be breathing second-hand smoke.

 

It appears that you are a frequent cruiser on Crystal and I seriously doubt that smoking on Seabourn will be significantly more prevalent than smoking on Crystal.....that's an observation based only on the smoking policies of the two companies.

[LoveBora]

It appears that you are a frequent cruiser on Crystal and I seriously doubt that smoking on Seabourn will be significantly more prevalent than smoking on Crystal.....that's an observation based only on the smoking policies of the two companies.

 

Yes, some smoking is allowed on Crystal. It's allowed in their Observation Lounge in only a small area, and the smoke has never driven me from the lounge. Smoking is allowed in the Avenue Saloon which is a major problem; however, Avenue Saloon will be non-smoking next year. Crystal has a Connoisseurs' Lounge for pipes and cigars. There is no smoking allowed in the staterooms nor on the verandahs. I don't have a problem with smoke wafting about on Crystal, and based on many comments on this thread, I am concerned about Seabourn; but, at least, I'm going to give it a try so I will know first hand.

[electra2008]

LoveBora Do not worry Very few people who cruise any line, know or bother with these sites! They are most likely just enjoying themselves somewhere else. Not like us sad sacks with nothing to do but post into the ether. So do not worry there will be lots of normal fellow passengers. I have only been on "cheap" cruises before and had a great time on them. I am looking forward to ours later on in the year, it will be a good chance to see if twice or possibly three times the cost is worth it. Also you could meet someone on this site arrange to meet up and think how can I get rid of these people;) Do not let other people make you go down another path, sea lane. Have a nice day

[Patti22]

Not exactly where this thread is going but on our recent Seabourn (Feb 12) cruise, smoking was a problem in the Observation Lounge. We hope that Seabourn will deal with it.

[Menelaus]

Have been really looking at the Seabourn site today, nearly all the virtuals, and came across this, do not want to start another set to but very interesting

 

For the comfort of all guests, most public areas on board are smoke-free. Cigarette smoking is permitted in the following areas:

• Observation Bar/Lounge – On the starboard side (except during coffee and tea service hours)
  
• Sky Bar – At the bar and starboard side deck area (except during Sky Grill food service on Seabourn Pride, Spirit & Legend)
  
• Seabourn Square Terrace and Club Terrace – on the starboard side deck area
  

Guests are asked to refrain from smoking pipes and cigars anywhere inside the ship, including in guest suites, on verandas and balconies. Cigar and pipe smoking is permitted only on open decks (Seabourn Pride, Spirit & Legend) and only on the starboard side deck area of Seabourn Square Terrace on Seabourn Odyssey, Sojourn & Quest.

Thought the part I have bolded interesting considering many of the posts re cigars. I certainly will be including a copy of this in my luggage.