Elegant Nights vs. Formal Nights

[karatemom2]

And while people should follow the guidelines, at the end of the day, this is Princess' fault for a lack of enforcement, IMO.

 

Mike

 

Exactly which is why I even thought to post this thread because it seems silly to maintain the pretense of a "formal" evening on paper if in practice it really isn't happening. At least the Carnival policy acknowledges what is really passing in the dining room.

 

I guess the downside of that is people probably take their more relaxed criteria and push the boundaries even further.

[Sailingpeace]

I hope Princess keeps formal nights ! So many special memories ! One of the things I look forward to, though I would not cruise on a ship that has them everynight, (nor on a ship than has none). From the large number of well dressed people who show up, and many in tuxedos, I have to believe it is enjoyed by many. When you buy a cruise , you buy a package of things you can choose to do , and that is one of them. If you don't like it, there are many options like dining in you cabin or eating at the buffet on those few nights. I don't believe people or ship staff will go to you and ask you to get dressed up.

[caribill]

Last Jan. on the Crown, AT dining, there was a couple at our table on formal night who were in real grubbies, wrinkled, dirty shorts and capris, didn't look good enough to go to the grocery store dressed like that. Uncombed, dirty hair completed the look.

 

We were on the Crown a couple of months ago and I saw more men wearing flip flops, t-shirts, and shorts in the MDR on smart casual nights than than any previous cruise.

 

Obviously this is the way they also dress when going to church on Sunday.

[1 HappyCruiser]

Exactly which is why I even thought to post this thread because it seems silly to maintain the pretense of a "formal" evening on paper if in practice it really isn't happening. At least the Carnival policy acknowledges what is really passing in the dining room.

 

I guess the downside of that is people probably take their more relaxed criteria and push the boundaries even further.

 

When you return from you Carnival experience let us know your thoughts. Since you actually know what the Princess dress consists of, it should prove interesting to hear what differences you find, although I don't expect to hear much of any great variations. I believe people will dress as they see fit no matter what the posted dress codes are.

[kywildcatfanone]

Can you imagine if they put lobster tails on the buffet? People would be taking dozens each, more than they could probably eat. That would cost a fortune, not to mention all the waste of uneaten tails. :eek: They would probably run out of them pretty quickly too.

 

What about the dress codes at work? Do these same folks ignore them too? My company will send you home and force you to take a vacation day if you come to work in anything on their 'banned' list.

 

I guess what is even worse than folks actually ignoring the dress code is the blatent way they brag about it. :(

 

There are plenty of other cruise lines to choose from. Why should Princess have to change their policies to suit you?

 

Read my previous posts in this thread. I don't have a problem with Princess' policies, just their lack of enforcement of them, which generates these debates on CC.

We have a dress code at my office, but people don't always follow it, no enforcement and it continues. Same with Princess. I agree, it would change if they sent someone home and made them change clothes.

And seriously, if Princess put lobster tail on the buffet on formal nights, they could have it at a station where it was served to you one at a time, not "all you can grab". This is not rocket science.

 

All I'm saying to answer these clothing threads about formal nights is that Princess cruise lines created the problems everyone is complaining about (on both sides), by their lack of enforcement of their stated dress codes. So, either enforce them uniformly or understand why people are disregarding and come up with an alternative for those.

 

Mike

[1 HappyCruiser]

Read my previous posts in this thread. I don't have a problem with Princess' policies, just their lack of enforcement of them, which generates these debates on CC.

We have a dress code at my office, but people don't always follow it, no enforcement and it continues. Same with Princess. I agree, it would change if they sent someone home and made them change clothes.

And seriously, if Princess put lobster tail on the buffet on formal nights, they could have it at a station where it was served to you one at a time, not "all you can grab". This is not rocket science.

 

All I'm saying to answer these clothing threads about formal nights is that Princess cruise lines created the problems everyone is complaining about (on both sides), by their lack of enforcement of their stated dress codes. So, either enforce them uniformly or understand why people are disregarding and come up with an alternative for those.

 

Mike

 

So true. When they still were offering the seafood buffet on all the ships & the Horizon would first open with long lines sometimes, they would serve each person a helping of crab legs & lobster claws until the crowd had settled down in order to at least distribute a portion to everyone waiting. It's the same in the dining room. They don't deny anyone from extra tails but it must be impossible to prepare as many as would be requested on the first go around. You would have people sitting there eating 3 tails while other would be waiting 15-20 minutes for their first serving.

[JimmyVWine]

No, the Princess definition of suggested attire for men for Formal Nights does include a tux, but also includes a suit. So Princess is not saying the only option for a man on formal night is to wear a tux.

 

But this is precisely the jumping off point of this thread. "Formal" has an accepted definition as it relates to mens' attire, and it is a tuxedo. If the Princess definition is also going to include suits, (and I would also argue in favor of blazers), then why not cross the Rubicon and call the evenings "Elegant Nights" instead of "Formal Nights"? Folks here seem to want to hold fast to the terminology, but are willing to allow the extended definition as employed by Princess. Such rigidity in nominclature seems unwarranted. Lest there be any misunderstanding, my stance is that Princess should change the name, but enforce the dress code rather vigiliantly. But the dress code should allow for anything from a sport coat/blazer on up for men. Not that my opinion matters.;)

[JimmyVWine]

I don't think I've ever seen anyone here strictly argue "a tux or nothing." ....

 

Same comment as above. The topic of this thread is a possible name change, not policy change. Logically, one has to move in either one of two directions. Hold fast to the term "Formal", and then enforce it, (which indeed means a tux), or change the term to something like "Elegant" and allow nice attire that falls below the bar of a tux. But it seems incongruous to remain tethered to the word "Formal" when that is not what one means. (And I am not so sure that there aren't people here who do want Formal Nights to be tux only, though they seem to stop just short of saying so.)

[billco]

As I said earlier, I don't care about formal night. I do think smart and casual should be the minimum required in the MDR. I don't want to dine with people in tank tops, shorts, and flip flops. I don't care to see it at church, but like Princess, my church doesn't turn people away.

 

However, I don't think I should have to eat at the buffet or in my room, because I don't choose to participate in an event.

 

I am leaving for an Alaskan cruise this morning. I debated about bringing a suit, white shirts, tie, and shoes. But, since I don't have to fly and I want have all my dinners in the MDR, I packed the suit.

 

So, on formal nights, I'll put on my cruise suit, go have dinner in the MDR, return to my room, change clothes, and enjoy the rest of the evening.

[Iamcruzin]

Maybe Princess should have "Come As You Are Night". That would give new meaning to a Kodak moment.:eek:

[UpcountryTravelers]

But this is precisely the jumping off point of this thread. "Formal" has an accepted definition as it relates to mens' attire, and it is a tuxedo. .....

 

Not quite. It means a tuxedo or above. Or put another way, black tie or better. There are several levels of formal wear that go above a simple tuxedo. Marine Corps "evening dress officers white tie", for example, is decidedly more formal than a tux, as is a kilt and white tie accoutrements.

 

Point being: we do have choices.

[MGAfhc]

But this is precisely the jumping off point of this thread. "Formal" has an accepted definition as it relates to mens' attire, and it is a tuxedo. If the Princess definition is also going to include suits, (and I would also argue in favor of blazers), then why not cross the Rubicon and call the evenings "Elegant Nights" instead of "Formal Nights"? Folks here seem to want to hold fast to the terminology, but are willing to allow the extended definition as employed by Princess. Such rigidity in nominclature seems unwarranted. Lest there be any misunderstanding, my stance is that Princess should change the name, but enforce the dress code rather vigiliantly. But the dress code should allow for anything from a sport coat/blazer on up for men. Not that my opinion matters.;)

 

I agree cpmpletely with your position on this. In fact, Princess actually say "dark suit" a term many don't seem to understand. The generally accepted definition of this dress standard is that only black,charcoal and navy is acceptable to a "dark suit' standard and under no circumstances is a blazer or sports jacket acceptable. All experienced Princess cruisers know that this standard is not followed, but it is a source of confusion to new cruisers who can only read the stated policy "suggestion" and wonder if this will be literally enforced. Most CC threads on this subject are started by Princess first timers wanting to know if that is the case.

Personally I can't stand the idea of wearing a tuxedo. To me, it seems a pretentious aristocratic costume and I would be uncomfortable with that fantasy. I will however gladly meet a jacket and tie standard and would like to be assured by Princess that I meet their standards.

[julia]

Interesting. We will likely then be way overdressed on our Carnival cruise next year, but I still like to dress up. It will be interesting to people watch that evening.

 

 

We have done this itinerary twice and really enjoyed it. You will find a huge array of dress on Carnival, with the majority in shorts and tees. Yes. Every night. However, our group dressed up a bit (since we were driving to the port), and enjoyed ourselves a lot. It's a very "live and let live" atmosphere.

[Jenna109]

We have done this itinerary twice and really enjoyed it. You will find a huge array of dress on Carnival, with the majority in shorts and tees. Yes. Every night. However, our group dressed up a bit (since we were driving to the port), and enjoyed ourselves a lot. It's a very "live and let live" atmosphere.

 

I think that is great for those who want it. So why do some insist on going with a cruise line which HAS a dress code but breaking it. Is it because they just want to be awkward - to show that they can do what they want because they are on holiday!! Well what about those, like me, who like to dress formally - so we book a cruise with a line which has a dress code - surely our needs and requirements should be respected.

All formal evenings I have been on - including Cunard - do not require a tux. Many go in dark suits and look very smart. We are going on a Princess cruise soon and will be taking formal wear - even though we are flying. I would not disrespect other passengers by not wearing appropriate clothing for the MDR.

What I am really trying to say is - select a cruise line which meets all your needs - including whether or not you prefer formal/casual wear. This will ensure everyone is happy.

[Potstech]

Isn't the root cause of this debate because people don't want to dress up, but also want the "special" menu items that those who dress up get to partake of?

How about have the buffet area serve the dining room menu on those nights, as well as a few other buffet style selections? Would that also solve the overall problem?

 

Mike

 

That is only part of the root cause of this debate. The other cause is that some wish to make GUIDELINES into unbendable rules. This is another cause as these cruisers want all others who do not conform to these unbendable GUIDELINES to be treated as second class cruisers on certiona nght of a cruise everyone paid for. Yes there are some who have less thab no class but to tell all who do not dress to anothers standard is also being a little disengenious.

 

I personnally only own one suit and will not buy or rent a tux. According to some that means I should be forced to eat at the buffet in certian nights of the cruise. To them I say WHY because if I am dressed according to the GUIDELINES in a nice shirt and pants then I am entitled, by reason of being a paid passenger, to eat anywhere I please. I must meet the requirements of the cruise lines but I do not see where another paying customer gets to tell me or anyone else how to dress or where to eat. Some people truely think they are in charge when they are no more a customer than I am.

And that is the other root cause to this continuing type of discussion. Please consider others lifestyles and economic situation before you start deciding what they SHOULD or SHOULD NOT do on a cruise. Sorry but many save for years to go on a cruise and do not have the luxury of buying special clothes or other items to use on a cruise. But some on here seem to forget that.

 

If you feel disrespected because someone doesn't meet your standards of dress then that is your problem not theres. I dress to suit myself witin GUIDLINES and do not worry how others think as they have absolutely no infuence on my life at all.

 

I select a cruise by where it goes and what activities are on it NOT by what clothes MUST be worn. That is the least of the things I consider when I become a paying passenger.

 

Rant over, Have a nice cruisE.

[UpcountryTravelers]

....Select a cruise line which meets all your needs - including whether or not you prefer formal/casual wear. This will ensure everyone is happy.

 

Excellent point. Example: I probably will not take my tux on the Carnival cruise this December with the kids and grandkids. But I definitely WILL take something formal (tux or above) on the Sapphire Princess b2b in November (we're flying in, so I might go with the tux to save weight).

[Mom33]

That is only part of the root cause of this debate. The other cause is that some wish to make GUIDELINES into unbendable rules. This is another cause as these cruisers want all others who do not conform to these unbendable GUIDELINES to be treated as second class cruisers on certiona nght of a cruise everyone paid for. Yes there are some who have less thab no class but to tell all who do not dress to anothers standard is also being a little disengenious.

 

I personnally only own one suit and will not buy or rent a tux. According to some that means I should be forced to eat at the buffet in certian nights of the cruise. To them I say WHY because if I am dressed according to the GUIDELINES in a nice shirt and pants then I am entitled, by reason of being a paid passenger, to eat anywhere I please. I must meet the requirements of the cruise lines but I do not see where another paying customer gets to tell me or anyone else how to dress or where to eat. Some people truely think they are in charge when they are no more a customer than I am.

And that is the other root cause to this continuing type of discussion. Please consider others lifestyles and economic situation before you start deciding what they SHOULD or SHOULD NOT do on a cruise. Sorry but many save for years to go on a cruise and do not have the luxury of buying special clothes or other items to use on a cruise. But some on here seem to forget that.

 

If you feel disrespected because someone doesn't meet your standards of dress then that is your problem not theres. I dress to suit myself witin GUIDLINES and do not worry how others think as they have absolutely no infuence on my life at all.

 

I select a cruise by where it goes and what activities are on it NOT by what clothes MUST be worn. That is the least of the things I consider when I become a paying passenger.

 

Rant over, Have a nice cruisE.

 

Your one suit would be fine. :D

[1 HappyCruiser]

I think that is great for those who want it. So why do some insist on going with a cruise line which HAS a dress code but breaking it. Is it because they just want to be awkward - to show that they can do what they want because they are on holiday!! Well what about those, like me, who like to dress formally - so we book a cruise with a line which has a dress code - surely our needs and requirements should be respected.

All formal evenings I have been on - including Cunard - do not require a tux. Many go in dark suits and look very smart. We are going on a Princess cruise soon and will be taking formal wear - even though we are flying. I would not disrespect other passengers by not wearing appropriate clothing for the MDR.

What I am really trying to say is - select a cruise line which meets all your needs - including whether or not you prefer formal/casual wear. This will ensure everyone is happy.

 

You can still live by the ships dress code & enjoy yourself along with many others doing the same. Even if there are a few who don't choose to dress as you do, it should have no bearing on your overall enjoyment of the evening. It's not so much as people being able to do what they want on vacation as both types of people can still enjoy the same ship & neither should affect the other. Most of the criticism given is only here on CC and once aboard the ship no one could care less.

[Cruise Junky]

What I am really trying to say is - select a cruise line which meets all your needs - including whether or not you prefer formal/casual wear. This will ensure everyone is happy.

 

I would rather see this worded as "Pick your dining venue based on your needs" Princess has enough for everyone to enjoy no need to be turning clients to other cruise lines. If you want the MDR on formal night, follow the dress code. If you want khaki's and a polo shirt, pay for a specialty restaurant, go to the buffet, order room service or do the UBD. Lots of options to accommodate everyone.

[1 HappyCruiser]

I would rather see this worded as "Pick your dining venue based on your needs" Princess has enough for everyone to enjoy no need to be turning clients to other cruise lines. If you want the MDR on formal night, follow the dress code. If you want khaki's and a polo shirt, pay for a specialty restaurant, go to the buffet, order room service or do the UBD. Lots of options to accommodate everyone.

 

And all of the either cost extra bucks of don't serve the same food.Hence the continuing lack of dress in the dining rooms. When the day arrives that they serve the same food, the problem will be solved.

[Cruise Junky]

And all of the either cost extra bucks of don't serve the same food.Hence the continuing lack of dress in the dining rooms. When the day arrives that they serve the same food, the problem will be solved.

 

I don't disagree with you, but right now that's the price you pay for picking a line that still has formal nights.

[julia]

I think that is great for those who want it. So why do some insist on going with a cruise line which HAS a dress code but breaking it. Is it because they just want to be awkward - to show that they can do what they want because they are on holiday!! Well what about those, like me, who like to dress formally - so we book a cruise with a line which has a dress code - surely our needs and requirements should be respected.

All formal evenings I have been on - including Cunard - do not require a tux. Many go in dark suits and look very smart. We are going on a Princess cruise soon and will be taking formal wear - even though we are flying. I would not disrespect other passengers by not wearing appropriate clothing for the MDR.

What I am really trying to say is - select a cruise line which meets all your needs - including whether or not you prefer formal/casual wear. This will ensure everyone is happy.

 

 

WHOAAAAA Jenna.... you quoted me as though WE were debating this issue. Trust me, we are not. :)

 

I directed my non-opinionated comment directly to the OP, having done that specific itinerary myself. I clearly do not give a ra'ts @@@ what anyone wears, on any ship, at any time. Period. Y'all can throw around terms like "disrespect" and "rules" and "dress code" all you want.... but the reality is that people will continue to wear whatever they choose. It's just not that big of a deal. Get over it. Really. Live and let live. Move on. Enjoy your cruise and don't concern yourself with others. ;)

[karatemom2]

Thanks to everyone for the interesting thoughts on the subject. It is certainly a subjective topic and one which will likely never be resolved to the satisfaction of anyone. I am sort of in the camp of just thinking that Princess should state what is actually acceptable at this point. If the guidelines for formal dress aren't even slightly enforced, then why not just put down in black and white what is actually allowed. My guess is that it is easier to just keep the old rules in place while not really paying any attention to them onboard. Then we can all just fight it out here and Princess doesn't have to be the bad guy. They don't take formal night away from those who enjoy the tradition, yet they don't bar those who don't wish to dress per guidelines out of the MDR and hence keep them happy too. Talk about having your cake and eating it too! Personally we will keep following the dress code and I don't really care what others wear if Princess is accepting. But it does seem silly to keep up the pretense!

[Potstech]

WHOAAAAA Jenna.... you quoted me as though WE were debating this issue. Trust me, we are not. :)

 

I directed my non-opinionated comment directly to the OP, having done that specific itinerary myself. I clearly do not give a ra'ts @@@ what anyone wears, on any ship, at any time. Period. Y'all can throw around terms like "disrespect" and "rules" and "dress code" all you want.... but the reality is that people will continue to wear whatever they choose. It's just not that big of a deal. Get over it. Really. Live and let live. Move on. Enjoy your cruise and don't concern yourself with others. ;)

 

 

Fully agree.

We are each just one passenger amongst a Compliment of over 2000. If it bothers you that much then you need to find a cruise that meets your dress requirements and leave the rest of us to the one we picked which allows us ours. Then you can be the one to pay a different fee for your dining enjoyment while the rest of us partake of the dining experience we paid for. This way you do noy have to tell the other paid passengers where they should dine and all will be happy with no further discussion. See how easy that is.

[1 HappyCruiser]

I don't disagree with you, but right now that's the price you pay for picking a line that still has formal nights.

 

I pick Princess because it had what I need on a cruise ship & expect nothing more. The dress part is something we just skirt around & really doesn't present us much of a problem. I don't let dressing or the lack or it become a concern since Princess will allow all people to eat in the dining rooms no matter how their dressed (within reason).

It was best expressed by BruceMuzz in this post a while back.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=24777741&postcount=74

and also by Princess in their official comment,

 

The official reply from Princess is:

"The matter of standards of dress in the restaurants is a particularly vexed question for, whilst we endeavour to persuade people to adhere to certain minimum standards of decency and formality, we do not feel that we can coerce them.

 

You will appreciate that the circumstances of a restaurant in a ship are somewhat different from those ashore. The balance between persuaion and coercion is a delicate one but we do ask Head waiters to endeavour to discourage people, in a tactful manner, from entering the restaurant for dinner inappropriately dressed."