"Watchdog" on tipping...BBC 1

[jocap]

On BBC 1 next Thursday, Sept 1st, at 8pm, Watchdog will be looking at the compulsory tipping on cruise ships....might be interesting.

Jo.

[Ray66]

Is it compulsory? I thought you could opt out if you wanted.

[John Bull]

Is it compulsory? I thought you could opt out if you wanted.

 

 

On Costa.

But I don't know of any others.

JB :)

[Ray66]

I was referring to the auto tip (gratuity) of $11 per day which you can opt out of on Cunard.

 

I don't know if the programme will cover this or if it's just about the 15% service charge on drinks which you have to pay.

[John Bull]

I was referring to the auto tip (gratuity) of $11 per day which you can opt out of on Cunard.

 

I don't know if the programme will cover this or if it's just about the 15% service charge on drinks which you have to pay.

 

 

Hi Ray,

 

The auto-tip is what I was referring to on Costa. Except on Costa you can't opt out.

 

Or mebbe, as you say, the programme is about the mandatory service charge on drinks & other services. Those which don't add that charge (P&O, Thomson & a few others) are in the minority.

 

JB :)

[edgeoftheworld]

Hi Ray,

 

The auto-tip is what I was referring to on Costa. Except on Costa you can't opt out.

 

Or mebbe, as you say, the programme is about the mandatory service charge on drinks & other services. Those which don't add that charge (P&O, Thomson & a few others) are in the minority.

 

JB :)

 

 

It is therefore not a tip/gratuity within UK law

& therefore it is either an optional service charge (nope!)

or its supposed to be part of the total cost/charge for the cruise, & should be included as such, with vat paid on it.

 

Not sure how Costa should apply those laws, as they are an Italian registered company

 

(ETA; from their T&C's:

1.2 The said contract will also be governed by Italian law, in compliance with mandatory regulations regarding the protection of consumer rights (Directive 90/314/EEC), and, where applicable, by the Brussels Convention of 23.4.1970 (CCV) and/or national and international regulations regarding the individual services that make up the travel package. )

[Ray66]

Hi Ray,

 

The auto-tip is what I was referring to on Costa. Except on Costa you can't opt out.

 

Or mebbe, as you say, the programme is about the mandatory service charge on drinks & other services. Those which don't add that charge (P&O, Thomson & a few others) are in the minority.

 

JB :)

 

It's strange how those lines have such different rules when you consider Cunard, P&O and Costa are all owned by Carnival Corp.

[John Bull]

It's strange how those lines have such different rules when you consider Cunard, P&O and Costa are all owned by Carnival Corp.

 

Agreed. But I don't know how the group is structured.

 

Being compulsory doesn't mean the "gratuity" has to be included in the price, but it does mean that it's supposed to be mentioned in advertising etc. Sometimes it is ,sometimes it isn't.

A bit like Ryanair, tho' Ryanair's add-ons are payable with the fare so altho its sharp practice, folk know what they're committing themselves to.

 

Because cruises are regarded by UK authorities as primarily transport, here's no VAT on cruises - or the service, meals etc that are ancillary to a cruise - and where you book from makes no difference.

 

VAT on drinks for cruises ex-Spain that don't call at a non-EU port? Well that's a whole different kettle of peces, & I haven't a clue.

 

JB :)

[sandancer]

Hi Ray,

 

The auto-tip is what I was referring to on Costa. Except on Costa you can't opt out.

 

Or mebbe, as you say, the programme is about the mandatory service charge on drinks & other services. Those which don't add that charge (P&O, Thomson & a few others) are in the minority.

 

JB :)

Costa is not the only line to allow you to cancel the tips. You can opt out on RCCL and Celebrity unless you are doing open seating dining and then you must pay upfront. For traditional dining you don't have to cough up in advance, (we always go for open seating so pay tips at the time of final balance). I believe you can also cancel the tips on Princess, also owned by Carnival. NCL have a "service charge" which is paid in advance for UK bookings.

[amajaa]

You don't have any money taken off you on P & O ships unless you are on freedon dining and then just £1.60 a day, and I think you can opt out if you aren't happy with the service. For everyone else they leave envelopes in the cabin and a suggested amount. The service is so good I would think nearly everybody does tip what is suggested or more (£1.60 a day to be shared between the waiters and £1.50 a day for the cabin stewart)

[jocap]

"Compulsory tipping" is just what the blurb about the programme says- I know no more than that.

The last 2 cruise incidents on Watchdog were about Thomson Dream.

It has been suggested by some people that ships which charge a gratuity, and don't announce that in their original price are using false advertising....it could be that, but I think it will probably be the usual arguments....New cruisers can be thrown by this practice of paying for a service on top of the price, and it leaves a bad taste for some. It could also be about the 15% tip on bar sales.....which RCI Indy and their other local ship, Celebrity Eclipse, have removed on Southampton sailings.

Jo.

[newport dave]

"Compulsory tipping" is just what the blurb about the programme says- I know no more than that.

The last 2 cruise incidents on Watchdog were about Thomson Dream.

It has been suggested by some people that ships which charge a gratuity, and don't announce that in their original price are using false advertising....it could be that, but I think it will probably be the usual arguments....New cruisers can be thrown by this practice of paying for a service on top of the price, and it leaves a bad taste for some. It could also be about the 15% tip on bar sales.....which RCI Indy and their other local ship, Celebrity Eclipse, have removed on Southampton sailings.

Jo.

 

But haven't they just increased the price by 15%, so you end up paying the same anyway!!!!!

[jocap]

But haven't they just increased the price by 15%, so you end up paying the same anyway!!!!!

So I'm led to believe....

Jo.

[John Bull]

Costa is not the only line to allow you to cancel the tips. You can opt out on RCCL and Celebrity unless you are doing open seating dining and then you must pay upfront. For traditional dining you don't have to cough up in advance, (we always go for open seating so pay tips at the time of final balance). I believe you can also cancel the tips on Princess, also owned by Carnival. NCL have a "service charge" which is paid in advance for UK bookings.

 

Should've gone to specsavers, Sandancer ;)

My post was that on Costa you can't cancel the tip, it's mandatory.

Which of couse means its a service charge, not a tip.

 

I don't know of any other line where it's mandatory.

About 18 months ago MSC made it compulsory, but got a stack of grief & abandoned it after only a month or two.

NCL didn't charge in advance for service on a recent Venice/Venice cruise booked in the UK, it was added to the on-board account and we could've deleted or adjusted it, much the same as most other cruiselines.

We've got an up-coming tips-inclusive RCI cruise. Though I don't know whether tips-inclusive was the initiative of the T/A or the cruiseline. But I do know we're taking the offer details with us cos we've heard of occasions when a ship has added it to folks' on-board account, oblivious to tips-inclusive bookings.

 

Can't help thinking that a TV expose on the subject can only be a good thing. As Jo's post, there's still newbies getting a bit of a shock.

Time the US got out of the 1950's & into up-front inclusive pricing :rolleyes:

 

JB :)

[Goldryder]

One difference with Costa that tends to be overlooked is the kids & the mandatory service charge (they call it as it is)...

 

2011 SEASON - for cruises from december 2010 to november 2011

 

not included:

Transatlantic cruises of November 2011

Grand Oriental cruises of November 2011

Caribbean, Middle East, Red Sea and Oriental cruises of November 2011

Costa Serena 27/11/2011

Costa Concordia 28/11/2011

included:

Around the World Cruise December 2011

 

For all hotel services on board, a service charge will be added each day to Guests' accounts. Payment will be requested only at the end of the cruise and depends on the duration of the cruise. The following charges are applicable:

• 7 euros/day per adult for all cruises up to 8 days, or 6 euros/day per adult for longer cruises.

• 11 dollars/day per adult for Caribbean cruises on Costa Atlantica departing from Fort Lauderdale and Miami.

• 9 dollars/day per adult for 4-5-6-7-8 day mini Far Eastern cruises on Costa Classica and Costa Romantica.

• 9 dollars/day per adult for South American and spring transatlantic cruises on Costa Serena, Costa Fortuna andCosta Victoria.

There is no service charge on any cruise for children under the age of 14, whereas Guests between the ages of 14 and 17 will be charged 50% of the above rates. The entire service charge is set aside by the company for staff who perform hotel duties on board as an incentive to continue improving the quality of service offered on Costa ships. In this regard, Costa Cruises has received SA 8000 international certification for ethical conduct and social accountability. The service charge is an integral part of the total price of the cruise and therefore the amount cannot be altered.

 

2012 SEASON - for cruises from december 2011 to december 2012

 

included:

Transatlantic cruises of November 2011

Grand Oriental cruises of November 2011

Caribbean, Middle East, Red Sea and Oriental cruises of November 2011

Costa Serena 27/11/2011

Costa Concordia 28/11/2011

Around the World Cruise january 2013

 

For all hotel services on board, a service charge will be added eachday to Guests' accounts. Payment will be requested only at the end of the cruise and depends on the duration of the cruise. The following charges are applicable:

• 7 euros/day per adult for all cruises up to 8 days, or 6 euros/day per adult for longer cruises.

• 11 dollars/day per adult for Caribbean cruises on Costa Atlantica departing from Fort Lauderdale and Miami.

• 9 dollars/day per adult for 4-5-6-7-8 day mini Far Eastern cruises on Costa Classica and Costa Victoria.

• 10 dollars/day per adult for South American and spring transatlantic cruises on Costa Fortuna, Costa Magica, Costa Pacifica and Costa Victoria.

There is no service charge on any cruise for children under the age of 14, whereas Guests between the ages of 14 and 17 will be charged 50% of the above rates. The entire service charge is set aside by the company for staff who perform hotel duties on board as an incentive to continue improving the quality of service offeredon Costa ships. In this regard, Costa Cruises has received SA 8000international certification for ethical conduct and social accountability.The service charge is an integral part of the total price of thecruise and therefore the amount cannot be altered.

 

I do not think any other line drops the service charge (or whatever they like to call it) from kids like Costa do.

 

Also, despite many who whine about not knowing about the above charges, its in full view on all cruises when you go through the booking process...whether you book direct yourself or via a TA...if you booked via a TA, its their responsibility to tell you. Having said that, there is no reason why the individual cannot read up on it, thus avoiding the shock of seeing it on the cabin account bill at the end of the cruise.

 

One BIG problem with ALL lines though is that the way it is charged differs significantly depending on which continent you booked the cruise from AND the choice of dining (where a choice is available).

 

It causes no end of confusion and consternation at the MDR table when chatting to fellow tablemates and the charge comes into conversation...Australians & New Zealanders pay in within their final cruise invoice before they step foot on the ship, Brits & Europeans pay it at the end of the cruise and those from the US are able to adjust it or drop it altogether when you are aboard a Costa ship. The North America Costa site...

 

Tipping is a personal matter, and your own judgment is the best guide. For your convenience, Costa will automatically debit your onboard account a modest service charge per person per day. Should you wish to change the amount, contact the Guest Relations Desk. Bartenders, servers, deck stewards and other staff may be tipped as service is received. For your convenience, a 15% gratuity is added to beverage purchases automatically.

 

Service Charges

Caribbean sailings departing from the U.S.:

$11.00 US per adult per day.The applicable service charge for teens between the ages of 14 and 17 will be $5.50 per person per day.

Caribbean sailings departing from non-U.S. ports:

Euro 7.00 per adult per day for cruises up to 8 nights; Euro 6.00 per adult per day on longer cruises. The applicable service charge for teens between the ages of 14 and 17 will be 50% of these amounts; there will be no service charge for children under the age of 14.

Dubai and Indian Ocean:

Euro 7.00 per adult per day for cruises up to 8 nights; Euro 6.00 per adult per day on longer cruises. The applicable service charge for teens between the ages of 14 and 17 will be 50% of these amounts; there will be no service charge for children under the age of 14.

Transatlantic sailings:

Euro 6.00 per adult per day. The applicable service charge for teens between the ages of 14 and 17 will be 50% of this amount; there will be no service charge for children under the age of 14.

South America sailings:

$9.00 US per adult per day. The applicable service charge for teens between the ages of 14 and 17 will be 50% of these amounts; there will be no service charge for children under the age of 14.

Far East :

6.00 Euro per adult per day. The applicable service charge for teens between the ages of 14 and 17 will be 50% of these amounts; there will be no service charge for children under the age of 14.

China mini-cruise (4,5,6 days):

$9.00 US per adult per day. The applicable service charge for teens between the ages of 14 and 17 will be 50% of these amounts; there will be no service charge for children under the age of 14.

Mediterranean & Northern Europe:

Euro 7.00 per adult per day for cruises up to 8 nights; Euro 6.00 per adult per day on longer cruises. The applicable service charge for teens between the ages of 14 and 17 will be 50% of these amounts; there will be no service charge for children under the age of 14.

 

Personally I think it is about time that ALL cruise lines levelled the playing field and had EVERYONE paying the same amount, at the same time & preferably fairer in regards as to whether or not you can opt out if you so wish.

[sidari]

We have cruised Twice on the Ruby Princess and we were charged a hotel charge at the end of the cruise which is added to your bill, the same happened with Cunard and with RCI we have Pre paid up front due to having My time dining. I have heard of people removing the Auto tip while on RCI! but i think they are few and far between.

[hat776]

When we were on NCL in the Med we decided to leave the auto tips in place. But those who wanted to remove the tips had to give Customer Care a reason and give them a chance to remedy matters. If they were still not satisfied only then would the tips be removed.

I would have loved to see the programme Jo

[jocap]

When we were on NCL in the Med we decided to leave the auto tips in place. But those who wanted to remove the tips had to give Customer Care a reason and give them a chance to remedy matters. If they were still not satisfied only then would the tips be removed.

I would have loved to see the programme Jo

We were on NCL Jade round then British Isles, when she was first over here...the prices were very low, and there were lots of new cruisers on board. We'd all paid up front....there was a sudden surge through the ship when Brits realised they didn't have to pay, and the queues for removing the tips were vast! From what I picked up (in the smoker's corner), the reasons were that it was a down right cheek, and that Norway wasn't a tipping country....:eek:

Jo.

[sandancer]

Oh dear, it's situations like this that give all Brit cruisers a reputation for being tight and not tipping. We all know that is not true and many of us pre-pay the tips as a matter of course but it is still annoying that those who avoid giving the hard working crew a few pounds make the rest of us look bad.

[sidari]

jocap ... how sad were those people!! ... :mad:

[edgeoftheworld]

But haven't they just increased the price by 15%, so you end up paying the same anyway!!!!!

 

but then your paying the price of the drink as advertised

just like everything else in europe, the price you see is the price your meant to pay.

[NorbertsNiece]

Programme didn't mention the gratuity on drinks (RCCL). Pick it up on iPlayer if you missed it. Very short segment.

[Ray66]

Not much time was spent on the topic. It was about the daily charges.

 

They mentioned that some cruise lines make you pay the auto-tip before going on your cruise.

 

For some reason they kept showing Cunard ships even though on Cunard you can opt out of the daily tipping or if you do pay it, it's at the end of the cruise. And Cunard was not one of the lines that the programme spoke to.

[insidecabin]

Fairly limp attempt at having a go.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/2011/08/tipping_010911.html

 

Might have been a leader to test the response.

 

Watchdog is after ratings, causes need to have a following to get air time,

 

Look how much time energy bills get.

 

If there is mileage in this, expect a followup

 

Problem is cruises are still considered as a rich persons holiday so not ideal material for a program that likes to think it bats for the underclass.

 

One thing they did not do is cover any of the lines that include tipping in the fare like Thomson, Azamara, etc.

[John Bull]

Fairly limp attempt at having a go.

 

I think that sums it up.

And the programme generally.

 

Consumer issues mean that such programmes are a must-watch.

But Watchdog is as bad as the companies it chases. It concentrates too much on headline-grabbing and on childish style & presentation, rather than content.

For instance, who the hell cares whether a presenter has just got his wings? Why waste time on that at the expense of a rushed & poorly-researched interview on energy prices.

 

The cruise tipping issue is well worth bringing up on such a programme. But the cruiser's right to change or delete tips was glossed-over as an after-thought - in the interests of consumers, it should have been highlighted.

And the only cruiseline that I know of which has mandatory tipping, Costa, wasn't even named !!

 

Yep, a fairly limp attempt by Watchdog

 

JB :)