Hope this doesn't start wwiii - hal's confirmation of the smoking policy

[mountainmare]

yes

[IRL_Joanie]

After reading all the posts on this board from smokers who state that they would never, never smoke in a area where smoking wasn't allowed I expect there will be almost 100% compliance with the new rules...Are am I being naive?

 

I do not think you are being that Naive, which is why I said no. But... Let me explain

 

I will be in 100% compliance as long as the Captain does not close all outside decks, which includes all verandahs. If there is no smoking anywhere in the Interior of the ship except for the Casino and it is then either overcrowded with smokers or is deemed, for whatever reasons to be non smoking (I believe there is usually 1 night that it is non smoking), then I will inform the Concierge and Front Desk to add the $250.00 fee to my On Board account as I will be smoking in my stateroom.

 

I do not plan on smoking in my stateroom in any other situations. Just as I do not normally smoke in it now (except when outside decks are closed.)

 

Joanie

[startwin]

I do not think you are being that Naive, which is why I said no. But... Let me explain

 

I will be in 100% compliance as long as the Captain does not close all outside decks, which includes all verandahs. If there is no smoking anywhere in the Interior of the ship except for the Casino and it is then either overcrowded with smokers or is deemed, for whatever reasons to be non smoking (I believe there is usually 1 night that it is non smoking), then I will inform the Concierge and Front Desk to add the $250.00 fee to my On Board account as I will be smoking in my stateroom.

 

I do not plan on smoking in my stateroom in any other situations. Just as I do not normally smoke in it now (except when outside decks are closed.)

 

Joanie

 

Trying to stay fair here Joanie as we have an agreement no to "get into it about smoking" but I have a problem with this part as the outside would be off-limits to all passengers - doors closed etc. So - and this is just my opinion - to have smoking inside would also impact on all passengers. The kind of stateroom you book probably wouldn't affect your neighbours, but, say on main deck, it could be a real problem. And it would appear that you are planning on simply breaking the rules laid down by the cruiseline, regardless. The rule doesn't say that smoking is allowed in cabins in inclement weather when decks are closed. I guess we have to wait for Kees to clarify that.

[IRL_Joanie]

Trying to stay fair here Joanie as we have an agreement no to "get into it about smoking" but I have a problem with this part as the outside would be off-limits to all passengers - doors closed etc. So - and this is just my opinion - to have smoking inside would also impact on all passengers. The kind of stateroom you book probably wouldn't affect your neighbours, but, say on main deck, it could be a real problem. And it would appear that you are planning on simply breaking the rules laid down by the cruiseline, regardless. The rule doesn't say that smoking is allowed in cabins in inclement weather when decks are closed. I guess we have to wait for Kees to clarify that.

 

I agree with you!! It would be totally unfair to all in the case that the outside decks are closed. My point is that with HAL limiting even more the inside areas for smoking it is going to cause such situations to happen:(

 

I am not positive, but think Kees mentioned he was going on 2 month vacation soon (not sure exactly when) so his reply might be a couple of months in coming:(

 

I wish there was some way that HAL could somehow create a retractable PlexiGlass type of enclosure around the Aft Lido area that could be utilized during inclement weather/outside deck closures. And put in one or two of those smoke eating machines. If they could do something like that then that might be the best solution....

 

Joanie

[Randyk47]

I do not think you are being that Naive, which is why I said no. But... Let me explain

 

I will be in 100% compliance as long as the Captain does not close all outside decks, which includes all verandahs. If there is no smoking anywhere in the Interior of the ship except for the Casino and it is then either overcrowded with smokers or is deemed, for whatever reasons to be non smoking (I believe there is usually 1 night that it is non smoking), then I will inform the Concierge and Front Desk to add the $250.00 fee to my On Board account as I will be smoking in my stateroom.

 

I do not plan on smoking in my stateroom in any other situations. Just as I do not normally smoke in it now (except when outside decks are closed.)

 

Joanie

 

Using Joanie's post as a foundation guess I'll make my comments:

 

1. Mrs. K and I are smokers. Yep, probably shouldn't and know that but we are and have no plans to quit anytime soon.

 

2. We never knowingly or deliberately smoke anyplace we ought not to on a ship or out in the community at home.

 

3. With HAL's policy change we most probably will not be cruising with HAL anytime soon if at all. Being allowed to smoke on the veranda does not compensate for not being able to smoke in our cabin. In fact, we typically don't smoke on our veranda and have, in the past, even gone as far as to check to see if our adjoining neighbors were out so as not to impact their cruise.

 

4. If HAL were to change their policy, and what we perceive as a "fine" for smoking in a cabin, to a upfront cleaning fee then we'd consider HAL. We have no intention or plans to book with HAL and then deliberately smoking in our cabin.

 

We're not going to go out and eat worms and broken glass over HAL's decision and policy.:rolleyes: :eek: It is what it is. If it means we don't cruise with HAL or any other cruise line then so be it. We'll find some other vacation option. That's our choice. :)

[3rdGenCunarder]

I have a question for smokers who want to smoke in their cabins. What about e-cigs? Not as a permanent replacement for real cigarettes, but to tide you over when you can't get outdoors. I think that some will deliver nicotine. Would that be a short-term substitute for the real thing?

 

I don't want to start WW IV with a discussion of e-cigs vs real cigs and what's safe and what isn't. But from what little I know, they produce less smoke/smell, can't burn holes in carpets, and seem to be satisfying for people trying to stop smoking. Yes, no smoking at all in the cabin is ideal. But I think I'd rather follow an e-cig user than a smoker into a cabin.

[IRL_Joanie]

I have a question for smokers who want to smoke in their cabins. What about e-cigs? Not as a permanent replacement for real cigarettes, but to tide you over when you can't get outdoors. I think that some will deliver nicotine. Would that be a short-term substitute for the real thing?

 

I don't want to start WW IV with a discussion of e-cigs vs real cigs and what's safe and what isn't. But from what little I know, they produce less smoke/smell, can't burn holes in carpets, and seem to be satisfying for people trying to stop smoking. Yes, no smoking at all in the cabin is ideal. But I think I'd rather follow an e-cig user than a smoker into a cabin.

 

For myself it is the cost of an e-cig as opposed to the cost of a real cigarette. Prices for a Starter kit begin at $29.99 and refills start at around $30.00 for 5 e-cigs as opposed to a carton of cigarettes (200 real cigarettes) being only $27.00 for me.

 

Besides the fact that I enjoy my smoking and have no wish to substitute.

 

Are the e-cigs any healthier than real cigarettes? No one can say.

 

QUOTE "Are ecigarettes healthier ? No one can say, because there are no long-term clinical trials or any other research that could verify or disprove such a statement. They were invented in 1995 and have only been widely used for a few years. This is one of those things on which you have to make your own decision. However, many people regard the decision to inhale a cool mist with half a dozen ingredients, none of which are known to be toxic or carcinogenic, or alternatively inhale a bonfire, as what is popularly termed a no-brainer - which is why ecigarettes are taking the world by storm." UNQUOTE

 

In my opinion, whether I smoke real cigarettes or e-cigs, the option of irritating others is still going to happen. No one will be happy no matter what the rules are.

 

It is a matter of personal choice. I choose to smoke, others choose not to smoke.

 

This is my last comment on this thread regarding smoking as I have promised to behave myself and will keep that promise:)

 

Joanie

[3rdGenCunarder]

For myself it is the cost of an e-cig as opposed to the cost of a real cigarette. Prices for a Starter kit begin at $29.99 and refills start at around $30.00 for 5 e-cigs as opposed to a carton of cigarettes (200 real cigarettes) being only $27.00 for me.

 

Besides the fact that I enjoy my smoking and have no wish to substitute.

 

Are the e-cigs any healthier than real cigarettes? No one can say.

 

QUOTE "Are ecigarettes healthier ? No one can say, because there are no long-term clinical trials or any other research that could verify or disprove such a statement. They were invented in 1995 and have only been widely used for a few years. This is one of those things on which you have to make your own decision. However, many people regard the decision to inhale a cool mist with half a dozen ingredients, none of which are known to be toxic or carcinogenic, or alternatively inhale a bonfire, as what is popularly termed a no-brainer - which is why ecigarettes are taking the world by storm." UNQUOTE

 

In my opinion, whether I smoke real cigarettes or e-cigs, the option of irritating others is still going to happen. No one will be happy no matter what the rules are.

 

It is a matter of personal choice. I choose to smoke, others choose not to smoke.

 

This is my last comment on this thread regarding smoking as I have promised to behave myself and will keep that promise:)

 

Joanie

 

Sorry if I wasn't clear, Joanie. I was asking if an e-cig was an acceptable back-up plan in case of inclement weather and not wanting/being able to go outdoors to smoke. I wasn't advocating people make a permanent change.

[mightycruisequeen]

I will be in 100% compliance as long as the Captain does not close all outside decks, which includes all verandahs. If there is no smoking anywhere in the Interior of the ship except for the Casino and it is then either overcrowded with smokers or is deemed, for whatever reasons to be non smoking (I believe there is usually 1 night that it is non smoking), then I will inform the Concierge and Front Desk to add the $250.00 fee to my On Board account as I will be smoking in my stateroom.

 

I do not plan on smoking in my stateroom in any other situations. Just as I do not normally smoke in it now (except when outside decks are closed.)

 

Joanie

Interesting. Didn't you used to advise nonsmokers to cruise on a different line if they didn't like HAL's smoking policy?

[startwin]

" then I will inform the Concierge and Front Desk to add the $250.00 fee to my On Board account as I will be smoking in my stateroom."

 

Might be a good idea not to approach it quite like that at the Front desk. I believe if you tell them you are wilfully about to break their rules they can invite you to get off at the next port, LOL.

 

As to the e-cigs, I agree they are way too expensive, I had no idea they cost that much so now I understand why they are not more popular.

[IRL_Joanie]

Interesting. Didn't you used to advise nonsmokers to cruise on a different line if they didn't like HAL's smoking policy?

Whether I did or not Jay, I cannot remember.

 

Let's keep to startwin's request and not make this WWIII please:)

 

Joanie

[startwin]

Whether I did or not Jay, I cannot remember.

 

Let's keep to startwin's request and not make this WWIII please:)

 

Joanie

 

Agreed, it is not intended to attack the smokers, but to highlight HAL's half-assed way of bringing in a new policy.... yet again they have not thought it through.

 

BTW - is it my computer or are these boards acting up again today? I've lost postings, and it's taking forever to load the page.

[kazu]

After reading all the posts on this board from smokers who state that they would never, never smoke in a area where smoking wasn't allowed I expect there will be almost 100% compliance with the new rules...Are am I being naive?

 

I don't think so. Most people follow the rules. :D

 

Whether it be a non smoking hotel, non smoking cabin on HAL, whatever, I respect the rules and follow them at home and when I travel and I think many others do too.

[happy cruzer]

I think the policy will be more like 3 offenses and you are off the ship especially if you have a neighbor complaining that your smoke is affecting their cabin. But I would imagine that HAL does not want discuss all the consequences because of PR. We will know next year how it is enforced.

[jimmy2x]

As to the e-cigs, I agree they are way too expensive, I had no idea they cost that much so now I understand why they are not more popular.

 

A carton of smokes cost about $60 in PA and I know that they are even more in Jersey. I've been on e-cigarettes for over a year and actual cost is less than $60/month or about 1/4 the cost for a pack and a half/day smoker.

 

The question about using them in your stateroom is actually pretty funny. No one would ever know as there is no residual odor, burning, or ashes.

[sail7seas]

As to the e-cigs, I agree they are way too expensive, I had no idea they cost that much so now I understand why they are not more popular.

 

A carton of smokes cost about $60 in PA and I know that they are even more in Jersey. I've been on e-cigarettes for over a year and actual cost is less than $60/month or about 1/4 the cost for a pack and a half/day smoker.

 

The question about using them in your stateroom is actually pretty funny. No one would ever know as there is no residual odor, burning, or ashes.

 

 

 

 

Does anyone know for sure if there are chemicals left behind the cabin steward has to breathe or the next guests in the cabin will be exposed to? Have enough studies for a long enough time been done?

[jimmy2x]

Does anyone know for sure if there are chemicals left behind the cabin steward has to breathe or the next guests in the cabin will be exposed to? Have enough studies for a long enough time been done?

 

Sail - I know that you take this very seriously so I will try to give you the best answer that I can.

 

An e-cig is a nicotine delivery system. The nicotine is mixed in with a base that is generally a 50/50 mix of Propylene Glycol ( used in food flavorings, cosmetics and often in rock concerts) and Vegetable Glycerin along with a small amount of food flavoring.

 

The e-cig has a device inside of it known as an atomizer which is used to vaporize the liquid above. When inhaled the nicotine (which is a stimulant similar to caffeine and is not known to cause cancer) is absorbed quickly into the bloodstream of the user.

 

So far as any secondary "smoke" issue quantities of anything exhaled have been shown to be negligible with no short or long term issues to other persons. Boston University as conducted an extensive study with is easily found thru Google. Another study has been conducted in New Zealand.

 

http://www.healthnz.co.nz/ECigsExhaledSmoke.htm

 

So far as the user goes, very little in life is 100% without risk. Nicotine, like caffeine has been shown to be a vaso constrictor(sp?). It has become apparent to many of us that whatever the risk to the user, it is FAR less than the continued regular use of burning tobacco. The vapor contains no tars (the actual stuff that coats surfaces with sticky crud), benzene, carbon monoxide, or about 4000 other chemicals found in burning tobacco.

 

Hope this helps.

[sail7seas]

A very thought out response.

Thank you, Jimmy.

 

With my health history, I go out of my way to avoid any irritants of any sort that I am able to bypass. Of course, we are exposed to everything and anything daily and most of it is out of our control. I try to avoid that which I can.

 

[jimmy2x]

Sail - you are quite welcome and I really do understand your concerns.

 

FWIW, several years ago I FINALLY quit smoking in our home as it had gotten to the point where it really bothered my wife. In retrospect, I don't know how she put up with it all these years. When I switched to the e-cig, she was absolutely thrilled and it does not bother her (or anyone else that I have spoken to about it) one bit.

 

It truly has been a "win-win" situation for both of us.

[Opinions]

I do not plan on smoking in my stateroom in any other situations. Just as I do not normally smoke in it now (except when outside decks are closed.)

 

Joanie

 

In the past you have posted "I will not sail if I cannot smoke in my cabin"...Is this still true?

[Robin7]

We will know next year how it is enforced.

 

Which is the ONLY reason I am glad we are unable to use our Future Cruise Credit in the near future. We have been next door (Volendam, outside cabin) to a chain smoker for ten days in the past. I do not want to do that again! So if HAL does not actually enforce their new rule, then I guess we'll be booking with a different cruiseline and eating our FCC.

 

Robin

[taxmantoo]

In the past you have posted "I will not sail if I cannot smoke in my cabin"...Is this still true?

 

Probably is... now she is just willing to pay the $250 up front to be absolved of all sins!

[jayteeaitch]

Sail - you are quite welcome and I really do understand your concerns.

 

FWIW, several years ago I FINALLY quit smoking in our home as it had gotten to the point where it really bothered my wife. In retrospect, I don't know how she put up with it all these years. When I switched to the e-cig, she was absolutely thrilled and it does not bother her (or anyone else that I have spoken to about it) one bit.

 

It truly has been a "win-win" situation for both of us.

 

Thanks for this - although not heavy smokers -DW and I do enjoy a puff now and then - and we never smoke in our home.

 

Your comments and a url from an earlier CC'r led me to this latest finding on E-Cigs - which also might be of interest to non smokers who see someone chewing on one of these. :eek::eek:

 

Now I need to find them here in OZ.:D

 

"8-11 September 2011 13th Conference Society for Research on Nicotine and Tobacco, Antalya, Turkey

 

A panel session on e-cigarettes chaired by Prof J-F Etter was very well attended, and showcased considerable new research as well as previous research by Health New Zealand Ltd.. These devices cannot be tested by the same machine modes used for tobacco cigarettes. E-cigarettes are smoked differently, by continuous puffing for say 15 puffs. Conclusion: Light regulation that permits sale obtains greatest benefits and minimizes harm. E-cigarettes are here to stay.

Since this conference, the UK cabinet’s unit on behavioural insights in its first annual report has recommended adoption of e-cigarettes. - ML "

[m steve]

If HAL allowed smoking on the balconies of the aft 25% of the cabins on each side including the stern that would solve the problem for most passengers who don't want to smell smoke. If they insist on booking one of those cabins they will just have to hope that their neighbor is not a chain smoker. That's still 1500 cabins smoke free inside and out on the bigger ships. If there are 500 smokers, which I doubt, there could even be less than that number of cabins for smokers.

And I think if someone who smokes in their cabin wants a refund on future cruise credits, HAL should allow it or let the credit and deposit be transferred. They would be snapped up on this thread.

[startwin]

I am really impressed that this thread stayed so civil. I was actually very worried about posting it... hence the "please don't start WWIII comment" (and not sure why the title of the thread was all in small case, I couldn't even edit it 5 secs after posting:().

 

So it looks like we will have to sit back and wait and see exactly how HAL handles the policy, and pax who break the rules, and I have a feeling it will differ from ship to ship.

 

On my next cruise I managed to snag one of the 2 cabins with an extra-long balcony... so I will position myself in the middle if I have smokers on both sides:D. As it's a 22-day cruise, this could make a huge difference.