Should Royal C stop the self-serve in the buffet etc?

[wales4ever]

On the Independance a couple of weeks ago, when the ship had another outbreak of norivirus. half way through the cruise they stopped self serve everywhere, from the buffet to the ice cream station on the pool deck.

 

Should this be stopped for good, as it is on other cruises? With the staff serving you what you want. It did not slow up anything really.

[jandlbudde]

Although, it may lower the risk a very small percentage, at the end of the day there are so many common areas and surfaces like railings and chair handles there would still be outbreaks. If people washed there hands frequently and stayed home when they were sick(instead of trying to hide it when gettting on the ship) it might be less common.

[RCCL Fan]

next year will be my first time sailing during the spring (alleged noro season)

 

i'm washing constantly.

[wales4ever]

Can you really think that someone, when they get to the pier, after spending maybe 1000's of $ for their cruise fill in the health questionaire and say they have got norivirous etc, with the worry that will not be allowed to board?

 

Or even cancell their cruise a few days before with the risk of losing all their money?

[dln929]

On the Independance a couple of weeks ago, when the ship had another outbreak of norivirus. half way through the cruise they stopped self serve everywhere, from the buffet to the ice cream station on the pool deck.

 

Should this be stopped for good, as it is on other cruises? With the staff serving you what you want. It did not slow up anything really.

 

I am of the same opinion as you in that I did not feel that it slowed anything down. In fact, the line for a cup of tea at Sorrento's was actually faster when someone served us!! I was sorry they went back to self-serve on the last two days. People take forever. :rolleyes:

 

I wish they would stop self serve for good. For one thing, people don't always take care when putting serving utensils back. Sometimes the spoons and forks land in the food rather than by the food. Yuck. And I bet having the staff serve--particularly in the Windjammer--would cut down on the gluttony. We didn't eat in the WJ but once but my BIL and SIL dined there for breakfast and lunch. They said more than once they saw people with their plates piled high with more food than a body could (should) possibly eat. Maybe having food served would curtail that a bit?

 

BTW, South Wales, nice review on our cruise!

[BND]

I personally don't think stopping self service is going to solve the problem. There's a lot more places people touch that are more than likely the bigger problem. The odds of actually catching noro are pretty slim. The numbers are typically 3-4% which to me isn't an "outbreak", but a pretty typical number of illnesses anywhere. We've been on 10 cruises and my DH has caught one cold and we've never had noro. I'm very careful about where I put my hands after touching something that has someone else has touched. You can infect yourself by rubbing your eyes, picking your nose or putting a finger in your mouth. BTW, I see people picking food out of their teeth with their fingers quite often and it's extremely disgusting to watch. My feeling is, go in the bathroom, pick it out there and wash your hands as no one wants to watch that. YUCK. Anyway, point is you can go a long way towards protecting yourself by your own personal hygiene habits.

 

I also wish they'd quit pushing that sanitizing gel as it doesn't do a thing to norovirus. It works on bacteria, not viruses. Viruses need to be washed away as they are pretty much impervious to anti-bacterials which is what the gel is.

[Dave85]

One is just as likely to contract noro from touching any random surface on the ship (a rail, a door, an elevator button) than from touching tongs at the buffet. This is why one must be diligent about washing hands!

 

So no, I don't think that they should stop self-service at the buffet just for that reason. I can see them doing it if they're in the middle of an active outbreak (just to take every possible precaution), but I wouldn't support them stopping it all the time.

[Arizona Cruz Chic]

I agree it would help but would not be 100 per cent effective on keeping a ship "clean".

 

I would think they would need extra crew added to the WJ....:eek:

 

 

 

***

[jjb415]

On the Independance a couple of weeks ago, when the ship had another outbreak of norivirus. half way through the cruise they stopped self serve everywhere, from the buffet to the ice cream station on the pool deck.

 

Should this be stopped for good, as it is on other cruises? With the staff serving you what you want. It did not slow up anything really.

 

Nope.......

[Coralc]

Can you really think that someone, when they get to the pier, after spending maybe 1000's of $ for their cruise fill in the health questionaire and say they have got norivirous etc, with the worry that will not be allowed to board?

 

Or even cancell their cruise a few days before with the risk of losing all their money?

 

If you haven't had Noro...it comes on really, realy fast. I had land-based Noro and went to work at 8 AM. I felt absolutely fine. :p I threw up about 10 AM.:rolleyes: I went home at 10:30 and by 2:30 PM that afternoon, I was in the emergency department at our local hospital being treated for dehydration.

 

I don't fault people for boarding and not knowing they have it. It's a nasty virus, and super contagious.

 

We hand wash, hand wash, hand wash, and thankfully,(fingers crossed, knock on wood-but don't touch the railings) have not contracted it on a cruise.

[teddie]

I personally don't think stopping self service is going to solve the problem. There's a lot more places people touch that are more than likely the bigger problem. The odds of actually catching noro are pretty slim. The numbers are typically 3-4% which to me isn't an "outbreak", but a pretty typical number of illnesses anywhere. We've been on 10 cruises and my DH has caught one cold and we've never had noro. I'm very careful about where I put my hands after touching something that has someone else has touched. You can infect yourself by rubbing your eyes, picking your nose or putting a finger in your mouth. BTW, I see people picking food out of their teeth with their fingers quite often and it's extremely disgusting to watch. My feeling is, go in the bathroom, pick it out there and wash your hands as no one wants to watch that. YUCK. Anyway, point is you can go a long way towards protecting yourself by your own personal hygiene habits.

 

I also wish they'd quit pushing that sanitizing gel as it doesn't do a thing to norovirus. It works on bacteria, not viruses. Viruses need to be washed away as they are pretty much impervious to anti-bacterials which is what the gel is.

 

I disagree; if it wasn't effective, the ship wouldn't take the staff to do it, when they could be doing some other work. The gel does work on other bacterial stuff, such as e coli--which can easily be transmitted from hand to mouth, especially for those cruisers who practice, um, less-than-desirable hand washing practice after using the bathroom. Those are the ones you don't want to be touching the utensils--ever! That's why it's good to do another quick hand gel cleansing once you've gotten to your table to eat your food.

 

Mealtime is the number one "hand to mouth" activity, which is the vector for the virus, so of course it's a great idea to cut down on the number of hands touching the utensils--and everything else!

 

I am not a germophobe by any means, but I hold great stock in modern-day practices that prevent food contamination and illness. I wish that they would always do this--much more sanitary

 

Just sayin'.

 

Teddie

[MrsPete]

Do we really have evidence that the virus is primarily transmitted through the buffet? I'm not convinced that we do, and this could lead to people feeling too comfortable and feeling that they don't need to wash their hands so much.

 

If you really think that avoiding self serve will keep you healthy, you have that option: in the MDR and other staff served venues.

[MCC retired]

Ever see someone lick their fingers then grab a tong , spoon ,

or pick up an item by hand then put it back?

Good point , eliminate self serve where practical.

[teddie]

Do we really have evidence that the virus is primarily transmitted through the buffet? I'm not convinced that we do, and this could lead to people feeling too comfortable and feeling that they don't need to wash their hands so much.

 

If you really think that avoiding self serve will keep you healthy, you have that option: in the MDR and other staff served venues.

 

Mrs Pete, it is known that the virus is transmitted through the "oral-fecal" route, so reducing the amount of contact at the buffet will definitely help. For the non-hand washers: hand washing before eating and preparing food is the absolute number one preventive measure to avoid transmission. Check the CDC website:

 

http://www.cdc.gov/Features/Norovirus/

 

Stop the Spread of Norovirus

 

Practice proper hand hygiene

 

Wash your hands carefully with soap and water, especially after using the toilet and changing diapers and always before eating or preparing food. If soap and water aren't available, use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer. These alcohol-based products can quickly reduce the number of germs on hands in some situations, but they are not a substitute for washing with soap and water.

Take care in the kitchen

 

Carefully wash fruits and vegetables, and cook oysters and other shellfish thoroughly before eating them.

 

Do not prepare food while infected

 

People with norovirus illness should not prepare food for others while they have symptoms and for 3 days after they recover from their illness (see Norovirus: Food Handlers).

Clean and disinfect contaminated surfaces

 

After throwing up or having diarrhea, immediately clean and disinfect contaminated surfaces by using a bleach-based household cleaner as directed on the product label. If no such cleaning product is available, you can use a solution made with 5 tablespoons to 1.5 cups of household bleach per 1 gallon of water.

Wash laundry thoroughly

 

Sorry if it's TMI, but the hand washing naysayers are just wrong about this.

 

teddie

[teddie]

I do apologize for the soapbox in my last few posts.

 

teddie

[negc]

Ever see someone lick their fingers then grab a tong , spoon ,

or pick up an item by hand then put it back?

Good point , eliminate self serve where practical.

 

I doubt it would be much of a help and when we were on Silhouette just a few weeks ago, the previous sailing's outbreak of Norovirus, caused them to shut down the self-service in the buffet for the first three or four days of our cruise. Service was seriously affected and not was only much slower, but much more cumbersome. Things improved measurably when things returned to normal several days into the cruise. There are so many ways in which a norovirus can be spread that focusing on the service in the buffet restaurant is really not an effective way of dealing with the situation. Attention to personal hygiene, frequent hand washing, etc. are more likely to most effectively deal with the problem.

[Big_G]

Do we really have evidence that the virus is primarily transmitted through the buffet? I'm not convinced that we do, and this could lead to people feeling too comfortable and feeling that they don't need to wash their hands so much.

 

If you really think that avoiding self serve will keep you healthy, you have that option: in the MDR and other staff served venues.

 

Sorry Teddie but MrsPete has a valid point. There is no evidence that the buffet is anymore responsible than handrails, door handles, bars, elevators buttons or any other number of places you touch. She's also right when she suggests going to the MDR if you don't like self serve.

[Beth C]

I would be willing to bet the place most people pick it up would be the doors to the public washrooms...

 

my motto for the washrooms... hip check the door inward and use the paper towel to pull

 

or just wear gloves all week... but they do get a bit sweaty in the caribbean heat :p and leave VERY weird tan lines LOL

[BND]

I disagree; if it wasn't effective, the ship wouldn't take the staff to do it, when they could be doing some other work. The gel does work on other bacterial stuff, such as e coli--which can easily be transmitted from hand to mouth, especially for those cruisers who practice, um, less-than-desirable hand washing practice after using the bathroom. Those are the ones you don't want to be touching the utensils--ever! That's why it's good to do another quick hand gel cleansing once you've gotten to your table to eat your food.

 

Mealtime is the number one "hand to mouth" activity, which is the vector for the virus, so of course it's a great idea to cut down on the number of hands touching the utensils--and everything else!

 

I am not a germophobe by any means, but I hold great stock in modern-day practices that prevent food contamination and illness. I wish that they would always do this--much more sanitary

 

Just sayin'.

 

Teddie

 

I said the gel works on bacteria. Norovirus is a virus and it does not work on it. You can look it up.

 

I think you put too much stock in what the ship has the staff do. It's somewhat preventative, but what it really is, is good PR. It makes it appear they're doing something about it, but the reality is, they can do very little to stop something spread by people being people.

[Coralc]

Sorry Teddie but MrsPete has a valid point. There is no evidence that the buffet is anymore responsible than handrails, door handles, bars, elevators buttons or any other number of places you touch. She's also right when she suggests going to the MDR if you don't like self serve.

 

We recently received a Noro warning from our regional health department....that anything within a 25 foot radius of a vomiting person should be disinfected. :rolleyes:

 

Good luck with that. I think I would run...fast! :eek:

[teddie]

Sorry Teddie but MrsPete has a valid point. There is no evidence that the buffet is anymore responsible than handrails, door handles, bars, elevators buttons or any other number of places you touch. She's also right when she suggests going to the MDR if you don't like self serve.

 

I never did say that there is evidence that the buffet is any more responsible.

 

My point is that since Noro is transmitted by hand/mouth route it stands to reason that hands carrying noro can help the virus find its way into you. So if lots of hands (some unclean) are touching the buffet utensils, there's a risk of transmission as you eat. This certainly can happen in the MDR too, depending on the food handling, or if you touch a contaminated hand rail, and then eat.

 

 

teddie

[teddie]

I said the gel works on bacteria. Norovirus is a virus and it does not work on it. You can look it up.

 

I think you put too much stock in what the ship has the staff do. It's somewhat preventative, but what it really is, is good PR. It makes it appear they're doing something about it, but the reality is, they can do very little to stop something spread by people being people.

 

If you read my post, I did not dispute that the gel doesn't work on viruses, but mentioned that it does work on e coli, which is a bacteria which also can cause GI outbreaks.

 

I don't think that stopping self serve is the full answer, people being people, as you say, but it certainly would minimize the number of hands touching the utensils. That's simple.

 

My final comment: wash your hands alot, and especially before eating.

 

Teddie

[Stags14]

Sorry Teddie but MrsPete has a valid point. There is no evidence that the buffet is anymore responsible than handrails, door handles, bars, elevators buttons or any other number of places you touch. She's also right when she suggests going to the MDR if you don't like self serve.

 

How could it not be more responsible? I pick up the forks that someone else who is sick touched, slap a burger on my plate and then pick up my burger and fries and eat them with my hands after touching the tongs. I'm not eating the hand rails. Plus, I'm using sanitizer when I enter the dining areas. So what else could be a bigger culprit?

 

As far as the question goes, no you don't ban things. You have to think for yourself and decide whether you want to take the risk. If you don't, then don't go to the buffet!!! ;)

[BND]

If you read my post, I did not dispute that the gel doesn't work on viruses, but mentioned that it does work on e coli, which is a bacteria which also can cause GI outbreaks.

 

I don't think that stopping self serve is the full answer, people being people, as you say, but it certainly would minimize the number of hands touching the utensils. That's simple.

 

My final comment: wash your hands alot, and especially before eating.

 

Teddie

 

That would be fine, but what is reported is Norovirus outbreaks. I had food poisoning a couple of years ago and it's not pretty and I got it in a restaurant. I have never seen anyone report getting e-coli on here from a cruise. I also said to wash hands, and that people pass stuff and I doubt the utensils are the main source. There are too many door handles, railings, elevator buttons, etc that are much more likely.

 

Did you know that in general computer keyboard and phones have more bacteria and viruses on them than toilet seats do? Same goes for utensils as most people who touch them have cleaner hands than those touching railings and handles as most people do wash their hands before eating. It's the few that don't that contaminate EVERYTHING. But, in reality, our immune systems are better than most people think they are.

[GGBNJ130]

NO! I want to be able to pick up my serving spoon/fork/spork/spatula/tongs and take the portions I want, if we left that up to the staff on board, i'd probably starve! If I want 20 strips of bacon in the morning I want to be able to take that on my own, and not go up 10 more times because a staff member is only putting 2 on each plate...