Beware Australian travel agents and Australian cruise agents

[nenasmum]

I rarely use Australian agents, preferring the conditions and prices of booking in the US, however the other day my mother bought a cruise to my attention that was written up in the Sun Herald. It was a back to back to back from Honolulu to Ensenada to Seattle. It was a package with hotels and airfares thrown in- it looked great.

However, before comiiting myself I did some reseach on Cruise Critic. It took me all of 10 minutes to begin to have doubts about the cruises viability as it violated the Jones Act or the PSVA by not stopping at a distant port but stopping in Ensenda. Further research into Celebrity's Terms and Conditions in Australia informed me that even if the travel agent AND celebrity itself obviously allow this cruise to be booked, if it violates the Act the PASSENGER will forfeit the cost of the second cruise.

 

The next day I rang the agent to inform them that they were going to have problems with the package. They assured me that it would have been checked by their legal team and it would be fine. I then rang Celebrity Australia who also assured me it was bookable in their system. I insisted that they contact the US and give me a written guarantee that I would not be thrown off the ship in Mexico and lose a cruise fare.

 

Today I received the email from Celebrity US saying the back to back cruise was indeed a violation of the Act and could not be booked. They cited a "change in the itinerary" as the cause for the mix up, but the cruise line and the agent were was booking the current illegal form.

 

I then rang the travel agent again , thinking I could save some more poor people form losing a lot of money and having a ruined holiday. The manager knew about the Jones Act but did not seem to be able to grasp how it worked. When I pointed out that I was not a travel agent and still managed to work it out he said" We don't have time for Stuff !!!! You would think that knowing about the Jones Act they would have checked and checked again before putting a whole package together. I still don't think he believes me!

 

So many people advocate using an agent as they supposedlyknow so much more than we lay people do and it will stop disasters like this occuring. My message is beware and be informed. Jennie

[johndon]

Nenasmum

 

How on earth did you get to know about the "Jones Act"? I have never heard of it and doubt that too many C C ers would have also. Good on you for sharing this information. It just goes to show that we can all easily be trapped even when dealing with "reputable"

T A s.

 

John

[nenasmum]

Ther has been a lot of discussion of the PSVA or the Jones Act on the boards- it only pertains to US cruises and it is tricky but the bottem line is you can't take a back to back that starts in one US port and finished in a different one unless it goes to a "distant" foreign port in between- for distant read 1000 miles not Mexico! Cruises starting in a US port can finsih in a close foreign country like Canad or Mexico but they cannot be taken as back to back with another cruise gooing back to the US. Cruises that start and finsih at the ame US port have to stop in a foreign country on the way- which iw why LA to Hawaii cruises stop for a few hours in Mexico or Seattle to Alaska cruises stop at Victoria Canada when it is dark. I think it is a wierd and antiquated Act but I know about it and I am not a TA! Jennie

[erewhon]

johndon,

 

Cruise Critic has lots of information of the Jones Act or PSVA if you do a search.

I had never heard of it until I was reading the Holland America boards.

[Aus Traveller]

Nenasmum

 

How on earth did you get to know about the "Jones Act"? I have never heard of it and doubt that too many C C ers would have also. Good on you for sharing this information. It just goes to show that we can all easily be trapped even when dealing with "reputable"

T A s.

 

John

At first I thought you were kidding, but maybe you aren't. :) I thought anyone who has cruised in the US, or read the forums relating to cruises in the US, would know about the PVA Act (often called the Jones Act).

[tickford]

Not many people outside of the US would know of the act and if they don't come to these forums there is even less chance of them knowing. I only know because I read about it here last year.

As for presuming travel agents know everything, they don't, it pays to check everything yourself.

Our Alaskan cruise last year called into Victoria, Canada for 4 hrs, not 1000 miles from Seattle which was the start and finish of the cruise. Maybe all the cruise mileage was calculated.

[h & m]

I rarely use Australian agents, preferring the conditions and prices of booking in the US, however the other day my mother bought a cruise to my attention that was written up in the Sun Herald. It was a back to back to back from Honolulu to Ensenada to Seattle. It was a package with hotels and airfares thrown in- it looked great.

However, before comiiting myself I did some reseach on Cruise Critic. It took me all of 10 minutes to begin to have doubts about the cruises viability as it violated the Jones Act or the PSVA by not stopping at a distant port but stopping in Ensenda. Further research into Celebrity's Terms and Conditions in Australia informed me that even if the travel agent AND celebrity itself obviously allow this cruise to be booked, if it violates the Act the PASSENGER will forfeit the cost of the second cruise.

 

The next day I rang the agent to inform them that they were going to have problems with the package. They assured me that it would have been checked by their legal team and it would be fine. I then rang Celebrity Australia who also assured me it was bookable in their system. I insisted that they contact the US and give me a written guarantee that I would not be thrown off the ship in Mexico and lose a cruise fare.

 

Today I received the email from Celebrity US saying the back to back cruise was indeed a violation of the Act and could not be booked. They cited a "change in the itinerary" as the cause for the mix up, but the cruise line and the agent were was booking the current illegal form.

 

I then rang the travel agent again , thinking I could save some more poor people form losing a lot of money and having a ruined holiday. The manager knew about the Jones Act but did not seem to be able to grasp how it worked. When I pointed out that I was not a travel agent and still managed to work it out he said" We don't have time for Stuff !!!! You would think that knowing about the Jones Act they would have checked and checked again before putting a whole package together. I still don't think he believes me!

 

So many people advocate using an agent as they supposedlyknow so much more than we lay people do and it will stop disasters like this occuring. My message is beware and be informed. Jennie

 

Jennie - how sensible you were to insist in something in writing from Celebrity, I do hope you have not lost any money over being misinformed.

 

We are on the same cruises, but starting from Syndey, so we are OK, I hope. I booked the first 2 legs Sydney - Honolulu and Honolulu to Ensenada while on board, then passed the reservation to my US agent. The only minor itinerary change has been the order of visits within Hawaii, so that could not be an excuse.

 

Many people on our roll call from Honolulu were disappointed they could not book the Ensenada - Seattle leg, and there has been lots of discussion as even in the US TAs have been giving out the wrong information.

 

Any chance of you doing the Sydney - Hololulu leg too ? Boarding in a distant foreign port makes the trip OK under the act.

 

Hilary :)

[Pushka]

Hmm, I knew about the Jones act, or rather, the implications of it for back to back cruises. And I dont think I know all that much about cruising. There is heaps of discussion about this on the RCL boards.

 

I guess like all things in life, we are our own best advocates and things that interest us, we pretty much research inside and out. Maybe that should apply to travel agents and travel issues, but there are so many things they need to know so I guess that slipped through. But having brought it to their attention nenasmum, you would have thought they might have said something like "wait, we'll get back to you about that and check it out".

 

On the other hand, I would have assumed that a cruise line should have known about it before they advertised it.

[MMDown Under]

Not many people outside of the US would know of the act and if they don't come to these forums there is even less chance of them knowing. I only know because I read about it here last year.

As for presuming travel agents know everything, they don't, it pays to check everything yourself.

Our Alaskan cruise last year called into Victoria, Canada for 4 hrs, not 1000 miles from Seattle which was the start and finish of the cruise. Maybe all the cruise mileage was calculated.

 

My understanding is it would only be a problem if you were starting a B2B cruise from Victoria, Canada. It is not about the ports of call, as many US cruises call at Victoria. I have read about the problem in relation to B2B cruise from Vancouver, Canada. It is time the US reviewed this outdated Act.

 

I was aware of this Act in relation to Hawaii, which is basically a closed shop to cruise lines, other than the one cruise line, which cruises there.

 

Nenasmum. Just realised your aim was to cruise from Honolulu to Seattle via Ensenada, without disembarking at Ensenada.

[Aus Traveller]

Jennie - how sensible you were to insist in something in writing from Celebrity, I do hope you have not lost any money over being misinformed.

 

We are on the same cruises, but starting from Syndey, so we are OK, I hope. I booked the first 2 legs Sydney - Honolulu and Honolulu to Ensenada while on board, then passed the reservation to my US agent. The only minor itinerary change has been the order of visits within Hawaii, so that could not be an excuse.

 

Many people on our roll call from Honolulu were disappointed they could not book the Ensenada - Seattle leg, and there has been lots of discussion as even in the US TAs have been giving out the wrong information.

 

Any chance of you doing the Sydney - Hololulu leg too ? Boarding in a distant foreign port makes the trip OK under the act.

 

Hilary :)

You are correct in saying that, by boarding in Sydney you do not have a problem with the PVA Act. It only prevents people travelling from one US port to another port also in the USA (unless the ship is owned and crewed by Americans).

[bobhsv]

We recently first found out about the Jones Act from Princess, but only after asking. We had checked on here, and as stated, there are lots of discussions re this outdated ruling. Because of this Jones act, we are sailing on 3 different lines when we visit the states next year.....they say variety is the spice of life....

It is dreadful that an Aussie TA can count the dollars coming in, with little or no regard for the consequences of being denied boarding/or thrown off the ship. There is a fine also of a couple of hundred dollars per person if the Jones Act is violated. I bet the aussie TA would not pay that for us! Or for the extra flights/accommodation that would obviously be needed when stranded.

If they are charging higher prices than the US, then the service and advice should be spot on.

 

Thanks for bringing this subject up. I am sure it will save other aussies on cc some heartache.

[musicorn]

I am starting to use US Agents when ever I can more this reason as well as price and cancellation conditions. I wonder what would happen if somebody was thrown off and sued the company here? No doubt the customers would foot the bill for what ever they experienced rather than them saying they should have known.

 

I recently sent my US Agent a copy of my booking I had made in Australia and she was shocked at the Terms and Conditions and said people in the US would never stand for what we take as given.

 

I think the Australian Agents need to have a good hard think about what they are doing to people here.

[Feen Machine]

I rarely use Australian agents, preferring the conditions and prices of booking in the US, however the other day my mother bought a cruise to my attention that was written up in the Sun Herald. It was a back to back to back from Honolulu to Ensenada to Seattle. It was a package with hotels and airfares thrown in- it looked great.

However, before comiiting myself I did some reseach on Cruise Critic. It took me all of 10 minutes to begin to have doubts about the cruises viability as it violated the Jones Act or the PSVA by not stopping at a distant port but stopping in Ensenda. Further research into Celebrity's Terms and Conditions in Australia informed me that even if the travel agent AND celebrity itself obviously allow this cruise to be booked, if it violates the Act the PASSENGER will forfeit the cost of the second cruise.

 

The next day I rang the agent to inform them that they were going to have problems with the package. They assured me that it would have been checked by their legal team and it would be fine. I then rang Celebrity Australia who also assured me it was bookable in their system. I insisted that they contact the US and give me a written guarantee that I would not be thrown off the ship in Mexico and lose a cruise fare.

 

Today I received the email from Celebrity US saying the back to back cruise was indeed a violation of the Act and could not be booked. They cited a "change in the itinerary" as the cause for the mix up, but the cruise line and the agent were was booking the current illegal form.

 

I then rang the travel agent again , thinking I could save some more poor people form losing a lot of money and having a ruined holiday. The manager knew about the Jones Act but did not seem to be able to grasp how it worked. When I pointed out that I was not a travel agent and still managed to work it out he said" We don't have time for Stuff !!!! You would think that knowing about the Jones Act they would have checked and checked again before putting a whole package together. I still don't think he believes me!

 

So many people advocate using an agent as they supposedlyknow so much more than we lay people do and it will stop disasters like this occuring. My message is beware and be informed. Jennie

 

Who is Jennie?:p:p:p

[The_Big_M]

I was aware of this Act in relation to Hawaii, which is basically a closed shop to cruise lines, other than the one cruise line, which cruises there.

 

I wouldn't call it a closed shop - other lines could do the same as NCL have done. They just have to meet the requirements.

[6andy6]

I wouldn't call it a closed shop - other lines could do the same as NCL have done. They just have to meet the requirements.

 

Requirements which I may add.....if any other country applied them would see the US go screaming to the World Trade Organisation about trade subsidies and trade restrictions.....

[nenasmum]

Who is Jennie?:p:p:p

What are you implying with the question.?I've been on cruise critic for years. I'm currently on 3 board lists for my 3 upcoming cruises. I could have just sat on the information I had , booked another US cruise and not bothered ringing the TA or posting here but I did not want people to get caught- that's all. Jennie

[germanyboy]

Does not apply if a round trip from/to a US port. They are legal

[Aussieflyer]

What are you implying with the question.?I've been on cruise critic for years. I'm currently on 3 board lists for my 3 upcoming cruises. I could have just sat on the information I had , booked another US cruise and not bothered ringing the TA or posting here but I did not want people to get caught- that's all. Jennie

 

I think the post was in jest - as if you had written to Jennie

"My advice is be aware and be informed Jennie"

 

I think that although most of us are aware of the Jones Act we would not think about it much when booking so that your pickup of the problem with a B2B has been a great eye-opener.

[kuldalai]

The whole thing of the Jones Axt is laughable in this day and age when the USA is always preaching free enterprise and free trade, and yet this piece of legislation over a century old is still practiced . The Jones Act should be repealed pronto .

 

This link gives the simplest , but still somewhat complex explanation of what it is :

 

http://http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=211976

 

The more you read of it the more laughable it is in this day and age especially coming from the supposed land of the free .

[The_Big_M]

Requirements which I may add.....if any other country applied them would see the US go screaming to the World Trade Organisation about trade subsidies and trade restrictions.....

 

Actually, I doubt that. Given most cruise lines around the world operate in the USA, they're not that big of a deal.

 

Yes, it does have its own set of requirements that they have to work within, but every country has requirements for different things. For example, there are animals that you can bring into the US but not here, but they don't have an issue with us having those extra restrictions, amongst other items (drugs, weapons) that can't be imported here but can there. Similarly in transport, US carriers can't just operate any routes here as they wish.

 

If, for example, the line couldn't operate at all here, then yes they would have a problem with it. But lines can operate there, but the routes they operate have some limitations.