Celebrity Reflection Design: "Improvements" to Break the Camel's Back?

[sloopsailor]

More passengers in a smaller public space.

250 more loungers in the same deck space already packed with them.

For-fee cabanas instead of free open grass lawn.

More lifeboats are placed in front of the balconies.

Heavy framed fence to obstruct views from observation deck.

....

 

What kind of experience is needed to say if these changes are good or bad?

 

Where do you come up with this nonsense? Are we even talking about the same cruise line?

 

FACTS: (something foreign to you, of course)

 

* There absolutely is more space. Do the math! The ship is 3ft wider than her sisters. The ship is 1,047 feet long. For simplicity, let's round this out to 1,000 ft. Multiply the length by the 3 extra feet in the width and you get 3,000 square feet more space PER DECK. That's the space found in a large house! There are 15 decks. Multiply 3,000 sq ft by 15 decks and you have 45,000 more square feet of floor space on this ship, much of it public space! Conclusion - there IS more space. It's simple math!

 

Here is more proof. According to the published specifications for Reflection, the Gross Tonnage (GT) has increased by 4,000 over her sisters. Gross Tons are a measurement of volume, not weight. Each gross ton equals 100 cubic feet (volume of a space 10 ft wide by 10 ft long by 1 ft high). This is a standard measurement used by the maritime industry to determine the volume of cargo ships, and can be applied to passenger ships as well. So, if one GT is 100 cubic feet, then the addition of 4,000 GT equals 400,000 cubic feet additional volume. Again, simple math. This ship IS LARGER by 400,000 cubic feet! That's the equivalent of room 400 feet wide by 1,000 feet long by 10 feet high! Which matches up nicely with the total space of 40,000 sq ft calculated in my first paragraph.

 

* The pool deck is wider by 3 ft and they have taken out the water jets at the end of the pools, so there WILL BE MORE ROOM for loungers there, plus more room on the deck above the pool as well. If you had done your research instead of jumping to baseless conclusions, you would have known this.

 

* There are no lifeboats in front of balconies. The life boats are below the cabins, not in front of them. An addition of a lifeboat will not block more balconies as you falsely claim.

 

* There is NO "heavy framed fence" in front of the observation decks. Instead, there are wide clear glass panels supported by a relatively thin frame. They will provide a wind barrier so people can enjoy the views while the ship is at full speed, something difficult and uncomfortable on the first four S-class ships.

 

It is truly remarkable how huge are the piles of crap that you post on these boards.

[boogs]

It's "larger" on paper due to added cabins.

The public space is not larger.

I fact it is smaller - a part of Sky Lounge has been taken by additional suites.

 

Possibly some readers do not realize that not only those suites are added.

A huge block of cabins has been added right below the pool deck.

 

There are NO additional cabins on most of her decks - no more on Plaza (3), Promenade (4), Entertainment (5), Continental (6), Sunrise (7), Panorama (8), Lawn (15) and Solstice (16), so there IS more public space on those decks since they are all 3 ft wider.

 

As to that block of cabins added under the pool area, the pool deck and the deck above it were raised to provide room for those cabins. All that public space is still there, only one deck higher. Plus, that entire area is 3ft wider, so there actually is more space there than on her sisters.

 

Just more incorrect claims that proves you do not know what you are talking about.

[cruisetrail]

Where do you come up with this nonsense? Are we even talking about the same cruise line?

 

FACTS: (something foreign to you, of course)

 

* There absolutely is more space. Do the math! The ship is 3ft wider than her sisters. The ship is 1,047 feet long. For simplicity, let's round this out to 1,000 ft. Multiply the length by the 3 extra feet in the width and you get 3,000 square feet more space PER DECK. That's the space found in a large house! There are 15 decks. Multiply 3,000 sq ft by 15 decks and you have 45,000 more square feet of floor space on this ship, much of it public space! Conclusion - there IS more space. It's simple math!

 

Here is more proof. According to the published specifications for Reflection, the Gross Tonnage (GT) has increased by 4,000 over her sisters. Gross Tons are a measurement of volume, not weight. Each gross ton equals 100 cubic feet (volume of a space 10 ft wide by 10 ft long by 1 ft high). This is a standard measurement used by the maritime industry to determine the volume of cargo ships, and can be applied to passenger ships as well. So, if one GT is 100 cubic feet, then the addition of 4,000 GT equals 400,000 cubic feet additional volume. Again, simple math. This ship IS LARGER by 400,000 cubic feet! That's the equivalent of room 400 feet wide by 1,000 feet long by 10 feet high! Which matches up nicely with the total space of 40,000 sq ft calculated in my first paragraph.

 

* The pool deck is wider by 3 ft and they have taken out the water jets at the end of the pools, so there WILL BE MORE ROOM for loungers there, plus more room on the deck above the pool as well. If you had done your research instead of jumping to baseless conclusions, you would have known this.

 

* There are no lifeboats in front of balconies. The life boats are below the cabins, not in front of them. An addition of a lifeboat will not block more balconies as you falsely claim.

 

* There is NO "heavy framed fence" in front of the observation decks. Instead, there are wide clear glass panels supported by a relatively thin frame. They will provide a wind barrier so people can enjoy the views while the ship is at full speed, something difficult and uncomfortable on the first four S-class ships.

 

It is truly remarkable how huge are the piles of crap that you post on these boards.

 

OMG

You are absolutely, totally confused about the "math" and where and how this ship was measured "wider" and what that means in practice.:eek:

This is your fantasy.

This is not a shoe box!

The Reflection can possibly be superficially wider at the level of upper deck on the length between the two humps. Nothing to talk about.

 

The added tonnage (volume) comes from the volume of the added cabins.

 

Please look again how people "enjoy views" behind the fence on Celebrity Millennium - something foreign to you.

 

[Despegue]

OMG

You are absolutely, totally confused about the "math" and where and how this ship was measured "wider" and what that means in practice.:eek:

This is your fantasy.

This is not a shoe box!

The Reflection can possibly be superficially wider at the level of upper deck on the length between the two humps. Nothing to talk about.

 

The added tonnage (volume) comes from the volume of the added cabins.

 

Please look again how people "enjoy views" behind the fence on Celebrity Millennium - something foreign to you.

 

 

Cruisetrail,

 

One more time, regarding the in reased size of the Reflexion, you are NOT correct. The HULL is 3 ft. Wider and the ship is longer. we are jot talking about the superstructure.

May I ask your credentials regarding nautical expertise?

There are around 190 extra passengers on a full Reflexion compared with her sisters. More than 240 sunloungers have been added. Also, one new bar has been created at Entertainment plaza. Also Sunset Bar has expanded.

 

Regards,

 

Despegue

Captain

Chairman TCAS Maritime and Aviation Safety

[cruisetrail]

boogs, for your information.

 

These are added cabins.

The added tonnage (volume) comes from these cabins on both sides of the ship and the volume of service area between them.

 

 

[cruisetrail]

Why is public space smaller on the Reflection?

 

The Sky Lounge has been ruined by added suites.

 

[WELSH WIZARDS]

I have sailed in all the S class ships [ excluding Reflection obviously ] a dozen times, [ 12 for non UK folks ;) ] and for the life of me I cannot remember much detail about what the difference was between one or the other , other than minor decor and resturants.

I think I am typical of most passengers , I just enjoy the facilities aboard the ship I am on.

I don't know and don't care about the differences, they are all fabulous ships.

I love the staff, the food, and the whole experience on each and every ship .

Celebrity builds it's ships for people like me, the majority , not for individuals , such as photographers who get up at 5 to take photos without glass, etc , etc .

Bottom line...Celebrity builds its ships for people such as I , and there are many more like me who will sail on what ever Solstice class ship they get the opportunity to .:D

 

PS...most of the many times I have been in the Sky lounge it's been very under used anyway. I don't think being smaller will make a vast amount of diference.

[cruisetrail]

sloopsalor, this is a photo of the new fence around the front observation area.

In fact it's even heavier and more obstructing than it looked on the first photo.

Awful.

[compman9]

Exactly! I prefer to enjoy life through my eyes, not through my camera, so this is indeed a positive improvement. I well remember another cruise line, another ship, where we could not stand on the upper deck because of the wind blast, not only making it difficult to stand, but also to even open our eyes without tearing. The new shields will allow us to enjoy the view without discomfort, much like on the M-class ships, which to my knowledge no one has complained about before.

 

 

What patronising claptrap.

 

Everyone sees the world through their own eyes - a photo captures a memory.

 

The daft question related to comparing a wonderful ship with a wonderful ship that none of us have seen yet.

 

A picture was put up showing glass in the way of a view, which will prevent photos being taken.

 

It really is as simple as that.

 

No-one is criticising Celebrity, most of us love Celebrity cruises. But this is a poor design aspect.

[Ma Bell]

What patronising claptrap.

 

Everyone sees the world through their own eyes - a photo captures a memory.

 

The daft question related to comparing a wonderful ship with a wonderful ship that none of us have seen yet.

 

A picture was put up showing glass in the way of a view, which will prevent photos being taken.

 

It really is as simple as that.

 

No-one is criticising Celebrity, most of us love Celebrity cruises. But this is a poor design aspect.

 

The picture also shows that there are spaces between the glass where a photo can be easily taken.

[firemanbobswife]

I am looking forward to the additional couch type seating around the Sunset Bar. Overall I am ecstatic at the design from the pictures I have seen. I will render my final opinion after I sail her in December. But as of right now, I think she's BEAUTIFUL!!

[cruisetrail]

Cruisetrail,

 

One more time, regarding the in reased size of the Reflexion, you are NOT correct. The HULL is 3 ft. Wider and the ship is longer. we are jot talking about the superstructure.

May I ask your credentials regarding nautical expertise?

There are around 190 extra passengers on a full Reflexion compared with her sisters. More than 240 sunloungers have been added. Also, one new bar has been created at Entertainment plaza. Also Sunset Bar has expanded.

 

Regards,

 

Despegue

Captain

Chairman TCAS Maritime and Aviation Safety

 

With all due respect, we do not measure credentials here.

We are talking about the ship.

Don't you see added cabins?

 

Do you know where exactly the ship was meased wider?

At waterline?

At the hump?

At the pool deck?

At the place where a crane is hanging outside?

 

What does it mean "longer"?

A few feet added to the "duck tail"?

 

Anyway it does NOT related to the problem - less public space for more passengers on the Reflection in comparison with the Eclipse.

 

Meyer Werft people would be loughing about this "math"...

[boogs]

What patronising claptrap.

 

Everyone sees the world through their own eyes - a photo captures a memory.

 

The daft question related to comparing a wonderful ship with a wonderful ship that none of us have seen yet.

 

A picture was put up showing glass in the way of a view, which will prevent photos being taken.

 

It really is as simple as that.

 

No-one is criticising Celebrity, most of us love Celebrity cruises. But this is a poor design aspect.

 

Your opinion. Mine is different. Get over yourself.

[sloopsailor]

With all due respect, we do not measure credentials here.

We are talking about the ship.

Don't you see added cabins?

 

Do you know where exactly the ship was meased wider?

At waterline?

At the hump?

At the pool deck?

At the place where a crane is hanging outside?

 

What does it mean "longer"?

A few feet added to the "duck tail"?

 

Anyway it does NOT related to the problem - less public space for more passengers on the Reflection in comparison with the Eclipse.

 

Meyer Werft people would be loughing about this "math"...

 

FACTS: the ship has been widened along the entire length and the entire height one meter to balance the weight of the additional deck area at the top of the ship. It was also lengthened for the same reason.

 

It is not only at the waterline.

It is not only at the hump.

It is not only at the pool deck.

It is not only at the place where a crane is hanging outside.

 

The entire ship, front to back, top to bottom. HINT: Entire means THE ENTIRE SHIP!

 

Here are a few more FACTS about the additional space created by adding those 3 feet in width:

 

Deck 3 is approximately 50% public space = 1,500 sq ft additional public space

Deck 4 is 100% public space = 3,000 sq ft additional public space

Deck 5 is 100% public space = 3,000 sq ft additional public space

Deck 11 is approximately 3% public space = 90 sq ft additional public space

Deck 12 is approximately 25% public space = 750 sq ft additional public space

Deck 14 is approximately 85% public space = 2,550 sq ft additional public space

Deck 15 is approximately 75% public space = 2,250 sq ft additional public space

 

Total all of that additional deck space created by just 3 extra feet in the width on just the public areas = 13,140 sq ft ADDITIONAL public deck space.

 

Divide that space by 196 additional people = 128 sq ft per person. This is more square footage per person than is calculated for each of the 2,850 people on Eclipse.

 

Conclusion: Reflection actually has MORE public space for it's passengers, even with the addition of 196 more people.

 

I love math. It is precise and the results are finite. It is exactly what it seems to be. ;)

[Karynanne]

Cruisetrail, I have a question for you. Are you planning to actually cruise on Reflection? Or are you going to continue your critique without stepping foot on this ship?

 

I enjoy reading reviews from passengers that have sailed on a particular ship, but this PRE-review is a bit much.

[C-Dragons]

Quote:

Originally Posted by avalon1025

The solstice class is definately a step up

"The Solstice class lacks a lot in comparison.

On Princess we found better conditions for well-being at sea that we value the most (wrap-around promenade, spacious pool decks, better food).

 

Princess by design and phiosophy is a true cruise ship: a perfect blend of energy, comfort and classy traditions.

 

I cannot say so about Celebrity.

In my opinion, they wanted to be exceptional but fell somewhere between a modern hotel and a nursing facility for wealthy people at sea (by design (underlined), not by the age of traveling public).

 

Solstice promenade that looks like a factory backyard is just killing."

 

Hmm... The remarks in quotations above were made by you, cruisetrail, on Sep. 1, 2012. It's apparent X is not your cup of tea. Why waste time and energy complaining about a ship that you probably have no intention of sailing? If you are happier with another cruise line, their ships and products, please book them and enjoy. You can leave X to those of us who truly appreciate it.

 

[mpbmark]

I must admit that I'm ashamed of myself for even following this thread but I find the whole argument about the ship to be fascinating. :o

If I might offer this suggestion to those of you who find the ship to be off-putting. Perhaps you should book on another ship or another line. While I was never much into math, I suspect this will reduce the passenger to space ratio on Reflection so the rest of us can enjoy the otherwise terribly overcrowded public spaces. :rolleyes:

As for the inability to take pictures without having a windscreen between the camera lens and either the unique view of the dock or the expansive ocean, I suspect the above suggestion may also be applicable. :eek:

[cruisetrail]

FACTS: the ship has been widened along the entire length and the entire height one meter to balance the weight of the additional deck area at the top of the ship. It was also lengthened for the same reason.

 

 

Who told you this "fact":eek:?

Examplary nonsense.

Was a S-Class project inflated like a rubber baloon?

[cruisetrail]

 

Hmm... The remarks in quotations above were made by you, cruisetrail, on Sep. 1, 2012. It's apparent X is not your cup of tea. Why waste time and energy complaining about a ship that you probably have no intention of sailing? If you are happier with another cruise line, their ships and products, please book them and enjoy. You can leave X to those of us who truly appreciate it.

 

 

Why do you think I am complaining?

When your dentist tells you that your tooth has a cavity - is he complaining?

When your travel agent says that the ship #1 has such and such amenities that the ship #2 does not - is he complaining?

Will you tell him he should book the ship #1 for himself?

 

Will you allow me to compare the Normandie with the Queen Mary without an intention of sailing on them?:)

[Orator]

Why do you think I am complaining?

When your dentist tells you that your tooth has a cavity - is he complaining?

When your travel agent says that the ship #1 has such and such amenities that the ship #2 does not - is he complaining?

Will you tell him he should book the ship #1 for himself?

 

Will you allow me to compare the Normandie with the Queen Mary without an intention of sailing on them?:)

 

My dentist has the required training and experience to render a judgment.

Mt TA is very experienced and has been on all of the S Class ships so would have direct knowledge.

Sure you can compare the Normandie with the QM. I'll base my judgment on the accuracy of your statements on your qualifications as an "expert".

 

What is your purpose for bring up this topic?

Are you angry at Celebrity and want to get even?

Are you involved with another line?

Are you just seeking attention and feel that posting negative comments furthers your goal?

Are you involved in Consumer protection?

 

One way we judge the credibilty of an opinion is by understanding the motive.

[Ma Bell]

Who told you this "fact":eek:?

Examplary nonsense.

Was a S-Class project inflated like a rubber baloon?

 

Try reading this, maybe you will have a better understanding.

 

http://www.charterworld.com/news/2012-cruise-ship-celebrity-reflection-celebrity-cruises

[Orator]

Try reading this, maybe you will have a better understanding.

 

http://www.charterworld.com/news/2012-cruise-ship-celebrity-reflection-celebrity-cruises

 

Ma Bell:

Logic, reasoning and direct evidence will never convince someone with a personal agenda that they might be wrong. Continued comments only serve to feed their purpose.

[Ma Bell]

I think you're definitely right in this case.;)

[Gitte]

I am just back from the Reflection and she is BEAUTIFUL.!!!!!!

And I love the new Sky Lounge.

 

Gitte:)

[Orator]

I am just back from the Reflection and she is BEAUTIFUL.!!!!!!

 

Gitte:)

 

You have direct experience and I would enjoy hearing more from you about your impressions. In your opinion is the design of Reflection better, worse, or about the same as the other S Class ships?