Celebrity Reflection Design: "Improvements" to Break the Camel's Back?

[cruisetrail]

I have been waiting for port side views of the new Celebrity Reflection.

Thanks to Meyer Werft we've got it.

Impression?

In one word: disappointing!

 

Let's compare the Reflection with the best S-Clas ship - the Celebrity Eclipse.

 

 

Celebrity Reflection (Meyer Werft)

 

 

 

Celebrity Eclipse

 

 

1. Reflection: Note the "new" full height glass fence on the front observation areas. No unobstructed views forward any more!

 

 

 

Eclipse: Note people enjoying views from the front observation area...

 

 

2. Reflection: A part of the Sky Lounge (public space) has been taked by $$$$ suites (for sell). BTW - aesthetically clean lines of the Sky Lounge on the Eclipse vs "broken windows" on the Reflection.

 

 

3. S-Class has been criticized for the lack of promenade deck. The Eclipse has a couple of open areas to simulate the space where promenade deck should have been.

Improvements on the Reflection?

The open "window" got even smaller to accomodate an additional lifeboat as the Reflection carries more passengers.

Less open space. More balconies with spoiled views.

[cruisetrail]

4. Reflection: The glass atrium dome disappeared behind the raised midships decks.

 

 

Eclipse:

 

 

5. Note raised midships decks to leave space for more passenger cabins on the Reflection.

Look at the photos carefully.

"Fish bones" support extended upper decks at two levels on the Eclipse vs one level on the Reflection (more cabins underneath).

 

6. Celebrity seems to "abandon" their idea of the grass lawn space. Formerly advertised as "iconic", it's now close to nothing on the Reflection.

 

On the Eclipse those interested can enjoy for free The Hot Glass Show and the spacious grass lawn.

 

Eclipse:

 

 

On the Reflection: The Hot Glass Show has been replaced with another extra charge eatery (same as on the Silhouette). Open grass lawn has been taken by $$ cabanas. Again - free facilities are being converted into extra charge services.

 

 

From the Eclipse to the Reflection:

- more passengers

- less internal space

- less open deck space

- more obstructed views

- more for fee

- less for free

 

Celebrity has built their five S-Class ships with two hands: the one that creates and the one that desroys.

They started with the first hand and finished with the second one.

[Andy]

Hi Everyone,

 

I'm confident Reflection will be another S-Class winner. I'm not at all concerned with the exterior changes. IMO, the inside of the ship should matter the most, and I'm certain Celebrity will deliver. With all due respect to the OP, until Guests have actually been on the ship, it's far too soon to draw any such conclusions.

[Denny01]

I love voting and so on, but I think I'll wait until I've actually stepped aboard to judge the Reflection.

 

Den

[pmk515]

[marinearchit]

I would say that, as a whole, even with the changes, the Reflection is still a very handsome ship. The additional deck didn't completely wreck the profile as I had anticipated.

[Blazerboy]

I'll take Lawn Club Grill over Hot Glass Show any day!

 

Andrew

[ORDMan]

I think he's got a point here. Celebrity is trying to squeeze more money out of the product, but what they might fail to realize is with the early S-class ships they found a floating Nirvana of sorts.

 

As an example we like Silhouette, but adore Solstice. The open lawn and hot glass show is nice.

 

To me Celebrity has a fantastic product, but it's clear that all of the management lacks a real vision. They're just trying everything to see if it works.

[bdpnatl]

Having been on the Equinox and loved her and her crew, I will wait until I have been on the Reflection (Dec 2012) to form an opinion.

[dln929]

I think the best way to see if the improvements are indeed improvements is to do a taste test: book one S class and then follow it up with the Reflection so as to compare the two. Which is exactly what I'm doing! :D:D:D

 

On a side note, I hope someone who cruises the Reflection TA this fall writes a good and long report. Two weeks on a ship gives ample opportunity to get a good feel of what she's like. I'd love to read a TA trip report.

[travellink]

I agree with Host Andy. Let's wait until someone has actually sailed on her and reported what's on the inside, that's what counts to me. Personally I think she is a beautiful ship.

[ser55]

Last year I cruised on Eclipse and this year on Silhouette - although both were fantastic, my vote would be for the Eclipse design. I loved the full lawn experience on the Eclipse and whilst I've no problem with changing the Hot Glass Show to the Lawn Grill, I do think the addition of the cabanas totally spoils that space.

[Lsimon]

I've got to say that I always find things I like more, and some I like less, on every cruise I've been on compared to the previous cruise.

 

I had a lot of negative feelings towards the S class ships for some reason or another, at least in comparison to the M class ships. But I have to say that our past couple cruises on the S class ships have been wonderful. Our cruise on the Equinox last March was one of the best overall cruises we've had considering all areas of the cruise experience.

 

Are there specific things I like more on one ship than another? Yes. But it is easy to get wrapped up in these minor things rather than just sit back and enjoy your cruise. Sometimes reading posts on these boards from frequent cruisers nitpicking some changes doesn't help. I myself get trapped up in that now and then.

 

A great example was one time on on our second cruise on an S class ship. I was looking around our cabin thinking to myself about all the negatives we often complain about in comparison to the M class such as storage and the tiny nightstands. Then I realized how ridiculous my thinking was! Here I was in one of the most beautiful staterooms I'd ever been in and I was nitpicking it rather than simply enjoying the wonderful surroundings!

 

The S class ships are wonderful ships and I'm sure the Reflection will not let us down. Will it have some minor nitpicks compared to its predecessors? Yes I'm sure it will. But will it present a wonderful cruise experience and a fantastic overall time? I think it will. Although I'd really like to check it out soon myself (with the help of Cruiser Susie) just to make sure! Unfortunately that might have to wait as we already have our next three cruises booked on other X ships...but who knows what the future holds.

[boogs]

Let's compare the Reflection with the best S-Clas ship - the Celebrity Eclipse.

 

1. Reflection: Note the "new" full height glass fence on the front observation areas. No unobstructed views forward any more!

 

Eclipse: Note people enjoying views from the front observation area...

 

How does clear glass become "obstructed views". Have you ever stood at the front of a cruise ship traveling at 25 knots into the wind? You can hardly stand in the force of the wind. Those full height SEE THROUGH glass panels allow people to stand there comfortably and enjoy the view. Now people will actually be able to use these areas as sun decks.

 

Those people enjoying the views on Eclipse are doing so while the ship is moving at a relatively slow speed. I can tell since there is a photo of it, which would be impossible to take while the ship is underway at full speed. You example is a very poor one to support your argument.

 

This is a positive improvement.

 

2. Reflection: A part of the Sky Lounge (public space) has been taked by $$$$ suites (for sell). BTW - aesthetically clean lines of the Sky Lounge on the Eclipse vs "broken windows" on the Reflection.

 

I happen to agree with you here, but time will tell if the change is that much of an issue.

 

3. S-Class has been criticized for the lack of promenade deck.

 

It is YOU who has been criticizing the lack of promenade decks, and with a vengeance, in several other threads.

 

The Eclipse has a couple of open areas to simulate the space where promenade deck should have been.

Improvements on the Reflection?

The open "window" got even smaller to accomodate an additional lifeboat as the Reflection carries more passengers.

Less open space. More balconies with spoiled views.

 

No open space has been taken over by balcony cabins. Where do you get that idea? Where more balcony cabins have been added is at the center of the top most cabin deck, and the open space has been lifted up one deck and is still there in it's full size.

 

4. Reflection: The glass atrium dome disappeared behind the raised midships decks.

 

It is still there in it's full glory. The angle of the photo you are using doesn't show it, but it is indeed there. If you had a better photo you would know this instead of making untrue claims.

 

5. Note raised midships decks to leave space for more passenger cabins on the Reflection.

Look at the photos carefully.

"Fish bones" support extended upper decks at two levels on the Eclipse vs one level on the Reflection (more cabins underneath).

 

You need to look at the photos more carefully. The two photos you posed clearly show the braces are the same on both ships - they both extend two levels. Again, another false claim.

 

6. Celebrity seems to "abandon" their idea of the grass lawn space. Formerly advertised as "iconic", it's now close to nothing on the Reflection.

 

The grass areas are an item you despised on Eclipse. Now you are complaining about not enough?

 

The lawn area on Reflection is virtually the same amount of area as on her sisters. True, the cabanas are taking up some of that space. Even with the cabanas there is plenty of lawn area. As to your claim about "close to nothing" - still another false, exaggerated claim.

 

On the Eclipse those interested can enjoy for free.

 

On the Reflection: The Hot Glass Show has been replaced with another extra charge eatery (same as on the Silhouette). Open grass lawn has been taken by $$ cabanas. Again - free facilities are being converted into extra charge services.

 

Some people have no interest in the Hot Glass Show, so not having it is of little consequence. The Lawn Club Grill, however, has won raves from people who have enjoyed it. Instead of passively sitting watching glass blowing, people can now enjoy a great meal and have the fun of participating in a fun activity. It would seem that it has been a great hit. And, it provides some variety from the other ships, instead of a carbon copy.

 

From the Eclipse to the Reflection:

- more passengers

 

Not that many, actually. Less than 200.

 

- less internal space

 

- less open deck space

 

They raised the center 1/3 portion of the upper two levels - the pool area and the deck above. The remaining 2/3 of these decks have not been modified. And yes they added some cabins there and elsewhere - a grand total of seventy two of them, actually. But in the process they lengthened the ship about 8 feet and widened it by about three feet. Celebrity Reflection will offer 245 more loungers on its expanded pool deck to suit the increased overall guest capacity, as well as 45 additional seats in the Celebrity Theater, 118 in Oceanview Café, 24 additional seats each in Blu and in Tuscan Grille, 4 more in Qsine, and 40 additional seats in the main dining room.

 

- more obstructed views

 

Only the cabanas will affect the views. Everwhere else on the ship is virtually the same.

 

- more for fee

 

Only the Lawn Club Grill is additional fee area. And some people, me included, will enjoy the venue when we sail on her.

 

- less for free

True, the took away the Hot Glass Show, but for some of us that was of no interest anyway.

 

Celebrity has built their five S-Class ships with two hands: the one that creates and the one that desroys.

They started with the first hand and finished with the second one.

 

I don't see them "destroying" with the Reflection. Instead, I see them refining. I am looking forward to the expanded deck and restaurant areas, as well as dinner at the Lawn Club Grille (we already have our dinner reservations on our upcoming cruise) plus the lunch on The Porch. We now have two more places we can enjoy the variety of food choices, and for many of us, that is a plus.

 

If you don't like the changes, do what an intelligent person would do - don't cruise on Reflection.

[A Sixth?]

I volunteer to compare the new Reflection to the Eclipse if some one would be kind enough to pony-up my cruise and air on the Reflection.... (I'm all in for the Eclipse Dec 29th)

 

[Lsimon]

By the way - I didn't vote in the poll. I'd need a third option that said something like "Either" or "I like both equally as well" or even "No info yet since no one has actually been on a cruise on her, let alone me".

[fortinweb]

6. Celebrity seems to "abandon" their idea of the grass lawn space. Formerly advertised as "iconic", it's now close to nothing on the Reflection.

 

On the Eclipse those interested can enjoy for free The Hot Glass Show and the spacious grass lawn.

 

On the Reflection: The Hot Glass Show has been replaced with another extra charge eatery (same as on the Silhouette). Open grass lawn has been taken by $$ cabanas. Again - free facilities are being converted into extra charge services.

 

From the Eclipse to the Reflection:

- more for fee

- less for free

 

Your posts are full of misinformation. One such misinformed claim is the fee in place of free in the lawn club area criticism. Two new venues there are indeed free, and the Eclipse does not have them:

 

The Porch will be a 48-seat eatery overlooking the lawn. It'll offer complimentary breakfast and lunch options -- plus specialty coffee, wine and beer for a fee, like everywhere else on the ship.

 

The Art Studio and its central "gathering table," which can be found near the entrance to the Lawn Club, will be used for art demonstrations and a variety of other classes, on topics such as painting, drawing and mixology. Most activities will be free. I would consider this to be a replacement for the Hot Glass Show.

 

Providing misinformation on these boards is a disservice to the people looking for factual information to make decisions. Biased and incorrect opinions have no place in mature, intelligent discussions.

[cruisetrail]

How does clear glass become "obstructed views". Have you ever stood at the front of a cruise ship traveling at 25 knots into the wind? You can hardly stand in the force of the wind. Those full height SEE THROUGH glass panels allow people to stand there comfortably and enjoy the view. Now people will actually be able to use these areas as sun decks.

 

Those people enjoying the views on Eclipse are doing so while the ship is moving at a relatively slow speed. I can tell since there is a photo of it, which would be impossible to take while the ship is underway at full speed. You example is a very poor one to support your argument.

 

 

Really?

 

Glass fence obstructs views.

No one wants "see through" fence for scenic views.

Open unobstructed views - this is what observation area is all about.

 

 

 

Wind?

Do you know when and why observation decks are in demand?

Your comment tells me you have never been on S-Class front obseravation deck.

The Solstice half-height fence has such angle that there is hardly any wind a few steps back.

We thoroughly enjoyed this area on the Eclipse even at the open sea.

 

No open space has been taken over by balcony cabins. Where do you get that idea?

????

 

It is still there in it's full glory. The angle of the photo you are using doesn't show it, but it is indeed there. If you had a better photo you would know this instead of making untrue claims.

 

Ship design does not seem to be your strongest point.

Mistake again.

Even though the Reflection is shown at more favorable angle (from above) than the Eclipse (from below), the atrium dome has sunk on the Reflection.

 

You need to look at the photos more carefully. The two photos you posed clearly show the braces are the same on both ships - they both extend two levels. Again, another false claim.

?????

 

And yes they added some cabins there and elsewhere - a grand total of seventy two of them, actually. But in the process they lengthened the ship about 8 feet and widened it by about three feet. Celebrity Reflection will offer 245 more loungers on its .......

 

Please, please no blind ads here if you could.:)

Upper deck space was a problem on the Eclipse even without "245 more":eek:.

[cruzeluver]

The Porch will be a 48-seat eatery overlooking the lawn. It'll offer complimentary breakfast and lunch options -- plus specialty coffee, wine and beer for a fee, like everywhere else on the ship.

 

If this is true then that is a change. On Silhouette in March there was a $5.00 charge for The Porch, although well worth it!

 

Add me to the list who will withhold judgement till some reviews of Reflection start coming in. None of what I have read or seen so far makes me have a negative feeling toward her.

[Orator]

If this is true then that is a change. On Silhouette in March there was a $5.00 charge for The Porch, although well worth it!

 

Add me to the list who will withhold judgement till some reviews of Reflection start coming in. None of what I have read or seen so far makes me have a negative feeling toward her.

 

I will judge for myself in January 26, February 2, April 20 and May 6. That should give me a pretty good idea if I like the ship.

[cruisetrail]

Your posts are full of misinformation. One such misinformed claim is the fee in place of free in the lawn club area criticism. Two new venues there are indeed free, and the Eclipse does not have them:

 

The Porch will be a 48-seat eatery overlooking the lawn. It'll offer complimentary breakfast and lunch options -- plus specialty coffee, wine and beer for a fee, like everywhere else on the ship.

 

The Art Studio and its central "gathering table," which can be found near the entrance to the Lawn Club, will be used for art demonstrations and a variety of other classes, on topics such as painting, drawing and mixology. Most activities will be free. I would consider this to be a replacement for the Hot Glass Show.

 

Providing misinformation on these boards is a disservice to the people looking for factual information to make decisions. Biased and incorrect opinions have no place in mature, intelligent discussions.

 

Exuse me!

Not words but photos have been provided.

May be the Eclipse and the Reflection (Silhouette) "misinform" you?

 

You consider a bland "demonstartions and classes" to be a replacement for the unique show? It's up to you.

 

The point: huge $$ cabanas instead of free open space for everyone to enjoy.

[Despegue]

Cruisetrail,

 

Although you do have some valid points, There is no reason to belittle other posters, claiming they do mot know anything about ship design... By the way, the atrium dome has not sunk, it has exactly the same dimensions as on her sisters. there is one deck extra around the atrium though resulting in a less visible dome.:rolleyes:

 

What is NOT visible, is the fact that Reflection has more width, If I recall correctly, 1.5 meters and is also slightly longer to compensate for the extra mass of the deck. this is done for stability reasons. think Metacenter, but hey, that is shipdesign :cool:

[boogs]

Exuse me!

Not words but photos have been provided.

May be the Eclipse and the Reflection (Silhouette) "misinform" you?

 

You consider a bland "demonstartions and classes" to be a replacement for the unique show? It's up to you.

 

The point: huge $$ cabanas instead of free open space for everyone to enjoy.

 

The photos provide nothing to support your biases. You are wrong, and obviously unable to see how you have misread the images.

 

How do you know the demonstrations and classes will be bland when they haven't even been held yet? Do you have a crystal ball that shows you the future? Do you visit a fortune teller to tell you what the future will be like? Do you have a magic hat where you pull these supposed facts from the future?

 

Do you even have a clue what you are talking about?

[compman9]

I'll take Lawn Club Grill over Hot Glass Show any day!

 

Andrew

 

The Hot Glass Show is the most entertaining thing on any ship I have been on.

 

I have grilled my own steak before.

 

:rolleyes:

[ladylemondrop]

Having experienced both, i prefer the lawn club grill to the glass blowing (be great to have both!!) but the cabanas - total waste of time and space and money!!!