Business Vs First Class - the Difference?

[MAXII]

Hubby and I are planning to splurge on Business Class/First Class from HNL to SYD next year.

 

I'm totally confused - If I search for Business Class and then again for First Class, I get different airlines pop up using search engines and some airlines have first class while others have business class. When I compare airline web sites (Business vs First), with some exceptions the seat pitch, luggage allowances, lounge access etc are more generous than regular seating as I would expect but sometimes I just don't see the difference between First/Business. The prices for the most part are comparable.

 

Is there an industry standard for Business and First or do the airlines just call these fare types one or the other at their own discretion? :rolleyes:

[Zach1213]

Airlines differ greatly. First class is starting to die as few people actually pay for it these days, instead relying on miles or upgrades to get up there from business class.

 

First class is fantastic, but in my mind it isn't worth the price as business class becomes increasingly nice.

[PennyAgain]

Airlines differ greatly. First class is starting to die as few people actually pay for it these days, instead relying on miles or upgrades to get up there from business class.

 

First class is fantastic, but in my mind it isn't worth the price as business class becomes increasingly nice.

 

First class is NOT starting to die. Many people especially those traveling for business seek out first class.

 

As to the differences, it goes airline by airline. While I am happy in either class of service on Qantas, a taller larger person might insist on first class on that airline.

 

The age of the airline, the age and type of the seats and the arrangement of the seats are key issues.

 

You need to do your research.

[CruiserBruce]

Actually, a number of airlines are removing First Class, and going to Business and Economy- an improved Business Class, instead of three classes of service on international flights. Some are doing only Business Class (in addition to coach class) domestically. Two examples- Lufthansa domestically, and Air New Zealand internationally.

 

As to the difference between First and Business. First will have the most space and the best food and drinks. Business will have less space and lesser choices of food and beverage. The difference is blurring a little in this difficult travel economy. But, as Zach said, First can be very nice, particularly on foriegn airlines on their long haul flights.

 

Comparing long haul international Business with domestic First is a good comparison in many ways, but the food and beverages may be a little better on international Business. We fly First domestically a lot, and find international Business to be quite acceptable for interntional.

[Ashland]

Actually, a number of airlines are removing First Class, and going to Business and Economy- an improved Business Class, instead of three classes of service on international flights. Some are doing only Business Class (in addition to coach class) domestically. Two examples- Lufthansa domestically, and Air New Zealand internationally.

 

As to the difference between First and Business. First will have the most space and the best food and drinks. Business will have less space and lesser choices of food and beverage. The difference is blurring a little in this difficult travel economy. But, as Zach said, First can be very nice, particularly on foriegn airlines on their long haul flights.

 

Comparing long haul international Business with domestic First is a good comparison in many ways, but the food and beverages may be a little better on international Business. We fly First domestically a lot, and find international Business to be quite acceptable for interntional.

And also that new catagory between E & Business...E+ or whatever each carrier decides to call it.

[Kenswing]

And also that new catagory between E & Business...E+ or whatever each carrier decides to call it.

 

And don't forget Air France's "Premium Economy"..

[CruiserBruce]

And also that new catagory between E & Business...E+ or whatever each carrier decides to call it.

 

Not all carriers have what is generically called "Premium Economy" and what is offered varies dramatically. Generally, a little more leg room for a minimum, and on foriegn airlines, better food and drink than regular Economy.

[greatam]

As everyone has posted, the differences can be ASTOUNDING. Or they can be very little (primarily US legacy carriers that have "hodgepodged" first and business).

 

Emirates/Qatar/Etihad have totally closed off suites. Almost as good as being in a private jet.

 

And the price in first class on those airlines are totally ASTOUNDING.

 

Emirates has showers onboard, Etihad has private chefs onboard and Qatar has Prada accessories, a complete spa in Doha and the most luxurious cars (I love the Maybach but the Bentley rides better) to take you to and from the airport.

 

You get pj's in any first class I have every flown EXCEPT the American carriers.

 

Is there a difference? You betcha. Just how much are you willing to pay??? What airlines are you actually looking at would probably get more answers to your question?

[kenish]

IMHO another reason for first class being eliminated on many overseas routes is because business jets are far more capable and less expensive to charter. Business jets with transcontinental range were uncommon 15-20 years ago. Today, VIPs, CEOs, etc. can fly in a private plane on their own schedule with no TSA hassles on routes like White Plains-Hamburg or San Jose-Hiroshima. 20 minutes after arrival at the airport they're in the air, nonstop to their final destination. It's a no-brainer for many who used to fly First Class internationally.

[Zach1213]

First class is NOT starting to die. Many people especially those traveling for business seek out first class.

With the economic downturn, many companies are not willing to pay for first class anymore, and instead are making their people fly business class. As a result, first class on international flights is starting to go away as business class becomes larger, nicer, and more popular, as well as the introduction of Premium Economy by more and more airlines (though many airlines, including some major ones, still lack it).

 

Domestic first class in the US is still very much alive, but international first class IS starting to die as its profitability becomes shot. Seeing as the OP is talking about an international trip, I stand behind my educated statement as someone with a keen interest in aviation business.

[Zach1213]

IMHO another reason for first class being eliminated on many overseas routes is because business jets are far more capable and less expensive to charter. Business jets with transcontinental range were uncommon 15-20 years ago. Today, VIPs, CEOs, etc. can fly in a private plane on their own schedule with no TSA hassles on routes like White Plains-Hamburg or San Jose-Hiroshima. 20 minutes after arrival at the airport they're in the air, nonstop to their final destination. It's a no-brainer for many who used to fly First Class internationally.

I agree. Netjets, etc. are really a great deal for those companies who don't need a full time private jet but still need the fractional use of them. I live near a couple Netjets pilots and it's fascinating about where they get to fly and who they get to fly for.

[Gardyloo]

Hubby and I are planning to splurge on Business Class/First Class from HNL to SYD next year.

In which case, unless you don't mind flying all the way back to the mainland in order to catch somebody's "true" international first class, you'll be in business class. Nobody offers FC between HNL and SYD.

 

Hawaiian Airlines, like several US carriers, simply re-names its planes' front sections as "business" class when flying internationally. The same seats are called "first" class on domestic itineraries and there isn't any "business" class offered. American does the same thing - ride one of their (two-cabin) planes up front within the US and you'll be in first class. The same plane, on its way to Canada, Mexico, the Caribbean or Central America, won't have first class, only business. It's all about marketing.

 

From Hawaii to Oz, your other choices will be Qantas or Jetstar (a budget Qantas affiliate.) Neither of those services will offer first class; in fact Qantas is eliminating FC from virtually all its flights, with only a couple of services (SYD-LAX, SYD-LHR, etc.) retaining it, mainly on their A380s. HNL is way too small a market for first class, in fact Qantas uses old Boeing 767s on that route with old and surprisingly uncomfortable seats in business class (despite their model name - "Dreamtime.")

 

Many (close to most by now) major international airlines are simply dropping the "first" class moniker altogether - too much real estate in the airplane given over to too many people not paying FC prices - just upgraders and mileage redeemers. Flashier business class will still attract people paying with money, and you can put more of them in the plane, instead of allocating the very best service to a lot of non-rev pax.

[Clay Clayton]

I will stay out of the First v. Biz arguments but OP, my advice is to make sure that whoever you fly has true lie flat seats. These are seats that when made flat are parallel to the floor. Some on some airlines, Business has angled lie flats which while better than economy are not nearly as condusive to sleeping - one tends to slide down in the seat.

[Valley Girl of VA]

We fly Business Class to Australia in February and it was well worth it. I don't think that I will ever need to fly in First Class since I was so happy with Business. That being said, the trip there over there was on a foreign airline - Asiana - from San Francisco via Seoul. It had the lay down flat seats, great food and drink, extremely attentive and professional flight attendants. flying home via Beijing, we flew Business Class on United and it was a different experience. The plane we were on had backward facing seats. The configuration was 2 4 2 and therefore the seats were more narrow than we had experienced on Asiana (those were 1 2 1). To me, the difference is the airline you fly on. Try not to fly on an American airline. Sorry to offend anyone but it is true.

[Zach1213]

To me, the difference is the airline you fly on. Try not to fly on an American airline. Sorry to offend anyone but it is true.

 

Yep, the airline is key. Two airlines I fly internationally on fairly often are British Airways and Cathay Pacific. On the 777, BA offers 2-4-2 seating in J, whereas CX offers 1-2-1 seating in J. Granted, BA has some seats facing backwards so it isn't as bad as it sounds, but nonetheless, it's pretty easy to spot which one is superior :)

[greatam]

I'm just plain curious.

 

The OP is from Vancouver. They want to book HNL to SYD. How are they getting to HNL?

 

They may have a far better experience booking with one of the Asian or Middle Eastern carriers to SYD. Valley Girl of VA presents a very good reason to fly a "foreign" airline.

 

I sure won't fly most of the US carriers in business or first on a long haul international flight if I can help it. A VERY disappointing experience on most if you have ever flown the better airlines. Food for thought!!!

[Twickenham]

I'm just plain curious.

 

The OP is from Vancouver. They want to book HNL to SYD. How are they getting to HNL?

 

A check of the OP's other posts shows that they're cruising on the Solstice from Sydney to Honolulu - so, I'm assuming they'll be getting a RT ticket YVR-HNL. However, just for fun, I just priced a YVR-SYD/HNL-YVR ticket on ITA Matrix for totally random dates in May/June, and I got a price - in Economy, admittedly - of $990. This does include a stop in AKL going, however. Even so, I don't think I'd be fussing with flying via HNL both ways.

 

I wonder how Air New Zealand's First/Business class offering is?

[toberman]

I sure won't fly most of the US carriers in business or first on a long haul international flight if I can help it. A VERY disappointing experience on most if you have ever flown the better airlines. Food for thought!!!

 

Yes!! But you have the US Military paying for it !!

Don't start... Just bugging you. And IF?? there are perks for doing what you do for the Military - you should absolutely take advantage of it.

 

I just want to be your friend for a year!!! :)

[CruiserBruce]

I wonder how Air New Zealand's First/Business class offering is?

 

Air New Zealand, as I mentioned in post #4 above, doesn't have First. Only Business, Premium Economy, and Economy.

[Gardyloo]

I wonder how Air New Zealand's First/Business class offering is?

NZ doesn't have first class on any of its planes, only business class.

[penguinscott]

Each airline is slightly different. The one I work for is going to a business/first on certain aircraft (2-class planes, not 3).

Mostly, the difference in first and business is that you get a bit more pampering in first. The glassware may be slightly different, but the menu is generally the same. First may have a better quality wine of bubbly. The amenity kit is slightly higher quality and you're surrounded by fewer people.

My airline doesn't upgrade automatically from business to first, only from coach to business. So sometimes you are surrounded by a slightly higher class of people and not the ones not used to experience, so they can often spoil it for others.

I'm often quite happy in business, but it IS more glamorous to say you flew in first and not just business! Enjoy.

[Antonintassie]

Hi it varies airline to airline Emirates who I fly with have private suites for 1st class its like your own private plane never had the pleasure but have flown business a couple of times which was very nice

[lucymorgan]

I agree with the poster who says look for a true lie flat seat between honolulu and sydney - about a 9 - 10 hour flight.

 

I usually fly business class qantas, Cathay, BA (and choose a380 (or 747 upper deck) if possible - but I don't think it is available on the Hawaii route). I have flown starclass on Jetstar from Hawaii after a cruise and it was fine - like domestic business class and very cheap. Most of the Asian airlines are pretty good too, especially Singapore Airlines (and I am very happy about the Qantas/Emirates alliance). I try to avoid the US carriers on long haul but perhaps their offerings are improving.

 

Look at seatguru and the Australian Frequent Flyer community for some info about flights to OZ.

[greatam]

Yes!! But you have the US Military paying for it !!

Don't start... Just bugging you. And IF?? there are perks for doing what you do for the Military - you should absolutely take advantage of it.

 

I just want to be your friend for a year!!! :)

 

 

I pay for my own tickets. IF it was up to the US Military, I would NOT be flying any foreign airline. DFAR rules PROHIBIT purchasing "foreign" products if a suitable US product is available at a comparable price and quality. 90-95% of US Military contractors fly into Kuwait or Dubai for processing into the War Zones on Delta or United IN COACH. The Military provides transport after that, particularly into Afghanistan. I book my own flights with Gryphon Air from Kuwait to Iraq if I need to go. Those are strictly charter flights organized by the US State Dept or USAID now that the USA Military is not active in Iraq. Gryphon "spirals" better into BIAP than the Military pilots (just kidding-they do spiral but the Military pilots were like the wild west coming into BIAP).

 

I just happen to own the company and CHOOSE to fly business or first class ON MY OWN dime. But the amount of money I can actually charge the US Government for airline tickets is only for Premium Economy. And since there is no TRUE Premium Economy on US airlines that fly into Dubai or Kuwait, I can't even charge for that.

 

Why put the year limitation on being friends???

[6rugrats]

My airline doesn't upgrade automatically from business to first, only from coach to business. So sometimes you are surrounded by a slightly higher class of people and not the ones not used to experience, so they can often spoil it for others.

 

So, you are essentially saying that it's better to fly on an airline that does not allow upgrades, so one can avoid the hoi polloi on airlines that do? The horror!