Business Vs First Class - the Difference?

[greatam]

So, you are essentially saying that it's better to fly on an airline that does not allow upgrades, so one can avoid the hoi polloi on airlines that do? The horror!

 

That wasn't the way I took it at all. I think he meant the airline he works for does not automatically upgrade.

 

I certainly understood what he meant (or at least I think I did). And I am sure you have had the experience where some kid (usually under 25) and his buddies or gf acquired/saved a bunch of miles to fly first class internationally and then act like total fools and disrupt everyone else. Has happened to me twice-once on BA from LHR and once on AA from NRT to LAX. If there was a safe exit at 35,000 feet, I would have used it, particularly on the BA flight.

[6rugrats]

That wasn't the way I took it at all. I think he meant the airline he works for does not automatically upgrade.

 

Sorry but when someone flat out says:

So sometimes you are surrounded by a slightly higher class of people and not the ones not used to experience, so they can often spoil it for others.

Since the domestic F experience is no big deal, I can only assume he's talking about international F. And, I don't know of any airline that automatically upgrades to international F, do you? I think he is saying that those who can pay money to purchase first class tickets will behave better and are "higher class" than those who just are upgraded. Most people reading this would think he was saying those who didn't fly F on a regular basis would spoil the "F experience" because they weren't used to it. Which is absolute nonsense.

 

I have never flown F on an international flight, but I think I could behave myself if I did.

[Gardyloo]

As I said earlier, I think one of the main reasons some of the big carriers are limiting or eliminating international FC is that many (maybe the majority, especially on some runs) of the passengers in first class are people who have redeemed miles or upgraded from business class into FC, rather than paying the astronomical price needed to purchase seats outright. I know the only times I've ridden in the pointy end on such flights have been with award or upgrades, most recently on Cathay between YVR and JFK. A great use of 32,500 frequent flyer miles, but would I spend the $3500 needed to buy the same ticket? Dream on.

[grandma*knows*best]

You get pj's in any first class I have every flown EXCEPT the American carriers.

 

 

 

Not true. I have never seen pajamas on UA F (not to Europe anyway). I flew SAS first class from IAD-ARN and no jammies there either.

 

OP - you might find this useful:

 

http://www.seatguru.com/charts/longhaul_first_class.php

[6rugrats]

I flew SAS first class from IAD-ARN and no jammies there either.

 

I want to fly in F and get some jammies! I guess SAS is now off my list.

[Gardyloo]

I flew SAS first class from IAD-ARN and no jammies there either.

Unless this was a long time ago, you didn't fly in first class - SAS doesn't offer it, just business class.

[greatam]

Not true. I have never seen pajamas on UA F (not to Europe anyway). I flew SAS first class from IAD-ARN and no jammies there either.

 

 

Grandma*DOESN'T* know*best

 

You missed the part-"EXCEPT the American carriers."

 

Fly a BIG BOY airline with REAL first class. NOT found on the US airlines.

[greatam]

I want to fly in F and get some jammies! I guess SAS is now off my list.

 

Mine from Etihad has svarovski crystals all over it as well as the amenity bag covered with more crystals.

 

The BA ones are REALLY comfortable. I wear them all the time. Have to make another BA flight just to get new PJ's.

 

The ones on Cathay are kind of art deco and kind of crappy IMHO because there is just too much material. I don't like the design but the quality is great.

 

The ones from Qatar-to die for. They are so soft, they feel like fleece or alpaca.

 

I only fly first to get jammies!!!

 

BEST thing I ever got in First-LAN has a REALLY cool amenity bag that you can hang up. Have used the same one for probably 6 years all over the world. Maybe they have them in business, too. But it is a really cool bag with pockets to stash stuff. GREAT on a cruise in the bathroom. And REALLY, REALLY handy when sleeping in a tent in the war zones with 6 other females and you have to walk 1/4 mile for a shower.

[MAXII]

Wow. I can't believe how many responses my question raised. Thanks so much for your thoughts and links etc. everyone.

[BermudaMom]

Have flown long haul from the U.S. east coast twice in the last 4 months using a combination of U.S. carriers and the "foreign" ones - all business class. JFK to Hong Kong and on to Singapore and then return on Cathay Pacific was excellent. A 777 with the 1-2-1 layout on the longer legs and their newer business product and fully lay flat seats. It was terrific. Food choices excellent. Between HK and SIN was a 777 but the older reclining seats and more across. OK as it was only a 4 hour flight - service excellent.

 

Second trip was Newark to Zurich on Swiss Air and service was excellent, seats OK. Zurich to Singapore on Singapore Airlines, a 380 top deck was amazing. 35" wide seats...very comfortable, service wonderful, food excellent. Will definitely fly them whenever possible. Flew SIN to Tokyo to JFK on United. No comparison. 777 but no where near the comfortable seats and space as the other carriers. Service so so, food, nothing to write home about. Ticket was less expensive than Cathay and you got what you paid for. Will be Cathay or Singapore Airlines next time.

 

That being said, have booked American from JFK to London return in the fall as they have their new business product on some 777s and it's just like Cathay's. Will see if their service and food standards have improved as well!

 

Business on many airlines is very comfortable nowadays and I just cannot justify the cost difference between it and FC.

[Zach1213]

I've flown the new AA business class on the 777-300 recently when I flew down to São Paulo. It's just as comfortable as Cathay, but service and food still lack.

[6andy6]

First class is NOT starting to die. Many people especially those traveling for business seek out first class.

 

Hate to disappoint you but MANY airlines have or have announce intention of removing completely or substantially reducing first class.

 

You need to do your research.

 

I know you mean this for the OP....but it could equally apply for the your quote......

 

.............

[calliopecruiser]

As others have said, it's airline dependent. I just flew "Executive Class" on Air Canada from LHR, yet I had a full lay-flat seat in little pods with video on demand at each seat and wonderful food and alcohol service. AC doesn't have a "First Class". But to get from LIS to LHR, I took TAP airlines, where their "executive" class had me sitting in the middle of a 3-3 configuration, with ordinary service and no apparent benefit other than sitting in the front of the plane (even the seat width and pitch was the same as economy). It was an OK flight with OK service, but it was hardly "executive" or even "premium", and it's a shame it costs more.

[marco]

Yes, the difference is amazing. Just for ha-ha's, I just checked out British Airways, JFK/London June 5 return Jun 19. Economy: $652 Premium Economy: $987 Business: $3706 there was no 1st Class listed. Business was over 6 times the cost of economy. What I don't get is that "once upon a time" if you sailed TA, the difference between 1st Class and Tourist was about double. In 1st Class you got better accommodations, better food, grander public rooms, more space per pax, and more attentive service, and you were sailing for 5-6 days. Now, the difference when flying economy or business is 6 times more expensive.....for a 7 hour ride! Seems it should be the other way around. For four grand to go to England...you can get a VERY nice suite on one of Cunard Queens.

[Zach1213]

Yes, the difference is amazing. Just for ha-ha's, I just checked out British Airways, JFK/London June 5 return Jun 19. Economy: $652 Premium Economy: $987 Business: $3706 there was no 1st Class listed. Business was over 6 times the cost of economy. What I don't get is that "once upon a time" if you sailed TA, the difference between 1st Class and Tourist was about double. In 1st Class you got better accommodations, better food, grander public rooms, more space per pax, and more attentive service, and you were sailing for 5-6 days. Now, the difference when flying economy or business is 6 times more expensive.....for a 7 hour ride! Seems it should be the other way around. For four grand to go to England...you can get a VERY nice suite on one of Cunard Queens.

 

The economics of air travel versus ship travel are incredibly different. Not only that, but you are comparing 2013 air travel to "once upon a time" ship travel, meaning there is even more difference in economics.

[tvmovielover]

My only 1st class long haul was to China on AA in 2007 and it was a pod with a flat seat and wonderful. The leg from Japan to Hong Kong was on Pacific Cathay which was not pods but was flat seats and your own little area and was also very nice. My SIL traveled to Egypt on AA and partners last Dec and there are still some pods flying though there are newer and better things too I guess. We do not have the points (borrowed for China) or the interest in paying triple or more for 1st but it is the way to go for a flight of more than 10 hours. If I had lots of points or $$$ to throw around, I would always go 1st for long haul flights.

OTOH, we once flew business on Lufthansa (also generally more than double unless you book at least 50 days in advance) and that was good too. But that was when there were slanted rather than flat seats and I am here to tell you that slanted seats are uncomfortable if you are short.

While I hate today's overcrowded economy cabins, I still am surprised that people not very tall or wide would pay for 1st class for a flight less than 2 and 1/2 to 3 hours on domestic flights unless company is paying but to each his own.

[Zach1213]

My only 1st class long haul was to China on AA in 2007 and it was a pod with a flat seat and wonderful. The leg from Japan to Hong Kong was on Pacific Cathay which was not pods but was flat seats and your own little area and was also very nice. My SIL traveled to Egypt on AA and partners last Dec and there are still some pods flying though there are newer and better things too I guess. We do not have the points (borrowed for China) or the interest in paying triple or more for 1st but it is the way to go for a flight of more than 10 hours. If I had lots of points or $$$ to throw around, I would always go 1st for long haul flights.

OTOH, we once flew business on Lufthansa (also generally more than double unless you book at least 50 days in advance) and that was good too. But that was when there were slanted rather than flat seats and I am here to tell you that slanted seats are uncomfortable if you are short.

While I hate today's overcrowded economy cabins, I still am surprised that people not very tall or wide would pay for 1st class for a flight less than 2 and 1/2 to 3 hours on domestic flights unless company is paying but to each his own.

 

Usually company is paying or free upgrades. Usually. Not always of course.

[grandma*knows*best]

Grandma*DOESN'T* know*best

 

You missed the part-"EXCEPT the American carriers."

 

Fly a BIG BOY airline with REAL first class. NOT found on the US airlines.

 

You do know that SAS is not a US carrier don't you? :rolleyes:

 

And yes, it was quite a few years ago when I flew SAS F.

[frugaltravel]

Grandma*DOESN'T* know*best

 

You missed the part-"EXCEPT the American carriers."

 

Fly a BIG BOY airline with REAL first class. NOT found on the US airlines.

 

You do know that SAS is not a US carrier don't you? :rolleyes:

 

And yes, it was quite a few years ago when I flew SAS F.

 

I was thinking the same thing. I guess grandma *does know* best :)

 

Recently I flew Thai Airways international first class. Night and day difference between first and business class. My seat had a sliding door to it that I could close! Pajamas, as was mentioned with most F products, and as I was changing they converted my seat to a lie-flat bed, including a mattress pad. No overhead compartments which really makes the cabin seem larger (they store your carry ons for you). Dedicated vehicle just for me to bring me from the airplane to the terminal accompanied by a Thai employee, dedicated electric cart for me driven by the same employee, 1 hour full body massage during my layover.

[greatam]

I was thinking the same thing. I guess grandma *does know* best :)

 

 

Had to have been at least 18 years ago. SAS dropped their quasi first class somewhere around 1993-1995. And NOW there won't even be business class on intra Europe flights. No jammies in any business class I have flown.

 

This from Gardyloo also:

 

Unless this was a long time ago, you didn't fly in first class - SAS doesn't offer it, just business class.

[Globaliser]

No jammies in any business class I have flown.

You'd get them on QF. ;)

[greatam]

You'd get them on QF. ;)

 

Really???? I haven't been on a QF flight for at least 5 years. I remember you got nice socks and a nice sleep mask but I sure don't remember jammies. And I sure don't have any here at home-I do keep them. Nice touch in business.

[Fattony]

I sure won't fly most of the US carriers in business or first on a long haul international flight if I can help it. A VERY disappointing experience on most if you have ever flown the better airlines. Food for thought!!!

 

"Food" for thought? Pretty thin gruel since no details given. Blanket description of U.S. vs. "the better airlines," though no examples given (some foreign airlines can be as bad if not worse than U.S. airlines). Some people honestly feel that foreign carriers are always best. I don't, but to each their own.

 

In our experience, on domestic U.S. routes you almost never have biz class, unless it's a direct continuation of an international flight. On international routes, biz (or "business-first") seems most common as the top class on two-class airplanes. If there are three classes, then first is the top. Between the U.S. and Brazil on just United, for example, flights from IAH and EWR have two classes (former Continental routes), while those from ORD and IAD have 3 classes. Adding to the confusion, the exact same cabin may be listed on one site as business and another as first. And airlines come up with new labels for their classes. First class on domestic U.S. routes hasn't come close to what we've experienced in international business class in the same airline.

 

OP, you don't say in what cases you found biz vs. first or both. I wouldn't worry about the specific terms. Just go by top class, middle class (if it exists on that plane) and lowest. What you get in each class can vary by airline and, sometimes just as much, by aircraft. For example, "Envoy" (I'd call it biz) class on a US Airways A330 is great, with individual "pods," with truly lie-flat seats. But on some airlines you could even be in a narrow body jet for this route, and have no lie-down seats.

 

Of course, most important is what your options are from HNL-SYD. Isn't Hawaiian Airlines your only non-stop option? While some sites like seatguru show just first and coach or economy, Hawaiian calls its cabins for this flight business and coach. If you want to fly at least part of this route in the top class of 3 classes, you could fly Hawaiian to Seoul, then Korean from there (they have first, "prestige" and economy.

 

There, now thoroughly confused? I'd fly Hawaiian in Business.

 

BTW, the only time I've flown first class on a domestic flight in the past several years was either when I was able to get a deal with miles, or it was in conjunction with an international biz class flight.

[frugaltravel]

Of course, most important is what your options are from HNL-SYD. Isn't Hawaiian Airlines your only non-stop option?

 

At least part of the year, Qantas and Jetstar also operate non-stop flights on this route.

[Gardyloo]

At least part of the year, Qantas and Jetstar also operate non-stop flights on this route.

Yes, neither with flat beds. In fact last time I looked Qantas uses an antique 767 on this route, with the old "Dreamtime" seats (as if) in business class. I did HNL-SYD some years ago with those seats on a 747-300, and they were remarkably uncomfortable. Two generations of seats have appeared since then, so maybe one of these days they'll put some of the older Spacebeds on HNL - a distinct improvement but still out of date.