Regent Flights - with and without deviation

[califsealion]

5 hours ago, Me&Red said:

Just want to report that Regent Air just came through with our exact requests.  We had some specific concerns: European flights direct from/to West Coast; arrive as early in the evening as possible in Jerusalem; total flight time under 20 hours each way, etc.  We were given our first choices (LAX-SFO then non-stop on United Polaris to Tel Aviv; Air France from Athens connecting in Paris), and we even got first class on United from Los Angeles to San Francisco.

 

Given that most flights to Israel from LA require connecting on the East Coast or arrive very late at night/very early morning, and that most afternoon flights from Athens also fly to the East Coast, paying the deviation fee to ensure flights that work for us was worth every penny.

 

I have been to Israel a few times.  The SFO to Tel Aviv route only started a few years ago and has been a total game changer for me!  So nice to do it in one straight shot (for me) and not have to have a lay over on the east coast or in Europe.

[jashah]

Hi,

 

Apologies if this question has been asked before but I cannot find an answer with my search.

 

Is there an extra cost to fly from a non-gateway airport?  My closet gateway is YVR (I am in YYJ) and the cost of booking business class is not far off the credit I will get from Regent if I make my own arrangements.

 

I am looking at YYJ-YVR-MUC-FCO and NCE-MUC-YVR-YYJ on Lufthansa.  The credit I will get is 2500 USD which is about 3350 CAD.  Restricted Business class booked on the LH website to/from YVR is 3900 CAD and to/from YYJ 4150 CAD.  

 

When I add the deviation fee of ~ 220 CAD pp the difference is not that large and maybe cheaper to book on my own if I have to pay extra with Regent given my non-gateway airport.  We also want to overnight in MUC on the way back due to flight times and I wonder whether I will be extra as well.

 

Thanks!

[rallydave]

11 minutes ago, jashah said:

Hi,

 

Apologies if this question has been asked before but I cannot find an answer with my search.

 

Is there an extra cost to fly from a non-gateway airport?  My closet gateway is YVR (I am in YYJ) and the cost of booking business class is not far off the credit I will get from Regent if I make my own arrangements.

 

I am looking at YYJ-YVR-MUC-FCO and NCE-MUC-YVR-YYJ on Lufthansa.  The credit I will get is 2500 USD which is about 3350 CAD.  Restricted Business class booked on the LH website to/from YVR is 3900 CAD and to/from YYJ 4150 CAD.  

 

When I add the deviation fee of ~ 220 CAD pp the difference is not that large and maybe cheaper to book on my own if I have to pay extra with Regent given my non-gateway airport.  We also want to overnight in MUC on the way back due to flight times and I wonder whether I will be extra as well.

 

Thanks!

Yes, there is a charge for non gateway cities.  Not sure what yours will be as could only find $99 $249.  Yes you would have to pay the deviation fee to choose your own flights and that fee covers going early and coming home later so staying in the disembarkation city later however, staying in an interim city like Munich would probably cost you quite a bit as that is considered a break in your flight and not a normal round trip doing it yourself or direct.  Suggest you go over at least a day early and stay overnight in NIce which would be part of your deviation.and not extra like a stop in Munih.

 

Don't forget, buying your own flight puts you at risk should you want to cancel or have any problems should the ship be late, a change in itinerary, etc. that Regent would cover but cause you problems and costs buying your own ticket.  Since pricing appears pretty close, suggest you check out the deviation first when you are 270 days prior to embarkation as well as the air fares at that time and then make an educated decision.  Good luck,

[jashah]

Thanks. All good points. I plan on arriving in FCO a few days early to visit so I’m not worried about that end of things, but I suppose if the ship is delayed arriving to Monte Carlo, that would be a problem.

 

The stopover in MUC does not add any cost when booking on the LH website (at least when I checked today).  I am trying to avoid a 5 hour layover at MUC before starting a 10 hour flight back to North America.   That’s why I thought leaving NCE in the evening, staying overnight at MUC, and taking the flight home the next day would be good. My plan was to take a tour of Monaco after disembarking before heading to NCE.

 

I guess I won’t know the cost of a stopover at MUC until 270 days out.  If I don’t like my options, can I opt to book my own flights and take the credit then?

[rallydave]

2 minutes ago, jashah said:

Thanks. All good points. I plan on arriving in FCO a few days early to visit so I’m not worried about that end of things, but I suppose if the ship is delayed arriving to Monte Carlo, that would be a problem.

 

The stopover in MUC does not add any cost when booking on the LH website (at least when I checked today).  I am trying to avoid a 5 hour layover at MUC before starting a 10 hour flight back to North America.   That’s why I thought leaving NCE in the evening, staying overnight at MUC, and taking the flight home the next day would be good. My plan was to take a tour of Monaco after disembarking before heading to NCE.

now the cost of a stopover at MUC until 270 days out.  If I don’t like my options, can I opt to book my own flights and take the credit then?

Surprised that your price includes the layover in Munich.  Perhaps this is a scheduled connection you found on the Lufthansa web page then all OK.  Normally an overnight stopover means point to point pricing thus more expensive and perhaps not included in Regen't contract with Lufthansa.  Can't tell until 270 days out as you stated.

 

To your last paragraph the answer is a resounding yes.  Until you agree with a flight schedule with Regent you pay nothing and you can request the credit at anytime.  That said, the longer you wait for booking a flight on your own, the more possibilities of higher prices and availability issues.  Just checked and Lufthansa flight schedules are available 355 days before the flight so almost 90 days before you can deviate with Regent.

[jashah]

Thanks again for the comments.

 

Yes, there does not seem to be any extra cost for a stopover in MUC when booking a “multi city” trip on the LH website.  Has anyone done this though Regent and aware of the extra cost?  

 

Being able to book 355 days out rather than 270 seems like an advantage, if the prices work out to be roughly the same.

 

We’re traveling with our kids so trying to break the travel home a bit. 

[rallydave]

5 minutes ago, jashah said:

Thanks again for the comments.

 

Yes, there does not seem to be any extra cost for a stopover in MUC when booking a “multi city” trip on the LH website.  Has anyone done this though Regent and aware of the extra cost?  

 

Being able to book 355 days out rather than 270 seems like an advantage, if the prices work out to be roughly the same.

 

We’re traveling with our kids so trying to break the travel home a bit. 

Glad to hear you are using multi=city as that means the fare is available now.  Perhaps you will hear from someone who booked thru REgent on a multi city trip.   Going with Regent if they wouldn't do multi-city, perhaps you could stay overnight in Nice and fly directly home on the next day as there should be a better connection leaving Nice in the AM.

 

Always worry about buying or frequent flyer bookings that are non-refundable and having return problems requiring thousands of dollars in extra costs, especially with it sounds like perhaps 4 people.  Agree about saving money which I do quite often but, sometimes it is worth it in the long run to spend a bit more and avoid isssue.

 

Best of luck and absolutely love Victoria!!!!

[FlyerTalker]

1 hour ago, rallydave said:

staying in an interim city like Munich would probably cost you quite a bit as that is considered a break in your flight and not a normal round trip doing it yourself or direct.

 

1 hour ago, jashah said:

The stopover in MUC does not add any cost when booking on the LH website (at least when I checked today).  I am trying to avoid a 5 hour layover at MUC before starting a 10 hour flight back to North America.   That’s why I thought leaving NCE in the evening, staying overnight at MUC, and taking the flight home the next day would be good. My plan was to take a tour of Monaco after disembarking before heading to NCE.

 

I guess I won’t know the cost of a stopover at MUC until 270 days out.

 

56 minutes ago, rallydave said:

Surprised that your price includes the layover in Munich.  Perhaps this is a scheduled connection you found on the Lufthansa web page then all OK.  Normally an overnight stopover means point to point pricing thus more expensive and perhaps not included in Regen't contract with Lufthansa.

 

 

Time for some information on the differences between "connections" and "stopovers" and how that affects air pricing.  First off, both "connection" and "stopovers" are terms of art in the airline industry and are NOT the same thing.  Also, the term "transfer" is sometimes used as a synonym for "connection", plus there is no official term such as "layover" - that word has no reference other than as misused colloquialism.  (And yes, airlines and websites may use that term, but it has no meaning in terms of connection vs stopover).  So we need to be sure that we are using the right words to describe specific situations.

 

The difference between connection and stopover is one of timing.  Now toss in that international itineraries have different rules than domestic itineraries.  Both refer to when you have two or more flight segments on a single ticket.

 

For domestic trips, the change between two flights is a "connection" if the time between the two flights (arrival & departure) is EITHER less than four hours OR is the first onward flight to the next destination in the itinerary routing, whichever comes last.   Here's a hypothetical example:  Your inbound flight arrives into Atlanta at 2:00pm.  If you have available flights to your next destination that leave at 3:00p, 4:45p or 6:10p, the first two would be "connections" because they leave with four hours of your arrival. (Note that the 4:45 flight qualifies because it is within the 4 hours, even though it's not the first one out)  The 6:10p flight would not be a connection, as it does not fit either category - it's not within four hours, nor is it the first onward flight.  Thus it defaults to being a "stopover".

 

Now, let's assume that the only flight operated to your next destination is at 6:10pm.  Even though it is not within 4 hours, it is the first onward flight.  So it qualifies as a connection.

 

The rule is that if it does not qualify as a connection, it defaults to being a stopover.  And the first onward flight rule applies to scheduled flights - it doesn't give you an exception if there is not inventory availability.  So having a sold-out connection before your flight doesn't qualify you for the "first flight" consideration.  Also, the number of "transfers/connections" is usually spelled out in the fare rules - sometimes a fare restricts you to zero or one connection, sometimes more or unlimited.

 

Now, let's move to international itineraries.  The one significant difference is that the time parameter moves from 4 to 24 hours.  So overnight flight changes are still "connections" as long as they are either within 24 hours OR are the first onward flight.

 

So - we have a knowledge of connections and stopovers.  What does it all mean?  Simply put, connections provide for a through fare from A to B, even if there are connections at C (and D, E, F if allowed by the fare rules).  On the other hand, if you have a "stopover", unless the stopover is allowed in the fare rules, you will now have "broken" the fare at the stopover point.  Now you have two point-to-point fares which get added together, usually for a higher price.  In addition, those allowed stopovers may be free or they may be at an additional charge.

 

Yes, this has been a long post.  But rather than just make a quick statement about the overnight in Munich, I felt a full explanation could help everyone to understand some of the rationale behind pricings and routings.

 

 

 

 

 

[rallydave]

Thanks FlyerTalker for explaining the differences mup to uch better than I did and while I knew about the next flight being OK but, not the 4 hour US and 24 hours international allowance for being a connection and not a more expensive point to point.  This great explanation should help many others be able to schedule different routes for their cruises.

 

Thanks again,

[jashah]

Thanks for the detailed replies.

 

As mentioned, there was no difference in price on the LH website when booking NCE-MUC-YVR-YYJ all on one day or the evening NCE-MUC flight and then MUC-YVR-YYJ the next day.

 

There is only one flight per day on LH from MUC to YVR.  Thus, if I arrive in MUC from NCE in the evening and then depart from MUC to YVR the next day, this will be within 24 hours and the next flight out.  Will Regent consider this a connection and not charge me extra?

 

I prefer to fly though MUC rather than FRA and am trying to book on an A350 for the long overseas flight.

[DaveFr]

22 minutes ago, jashah said:

Thanks for the detailed replies.

 

As mentioned, there was no difference in price on the LH website when booking NCE-MUC-YVR-YYJ all on one day or the evening NCE-MUC flight and then MUC-YVR-YYJ the next day.

 

There is only one flight per day on LH from MUC to YVR.  Thus, if I arrive in MUC from NCE in the evening and then depart from MUC to YVR the next day, this will be within 24 hours and the next flight out.  Will Regent consider this a connection and not charge me extra?

 

I prefer to fly though MUC rather than FRA and am trying to book on an A350 for the long overseas flight.

You have to check with Regent but I once had a similar itinerary where we were flying on British Airways through Heathrow and I wanted to stay overnight and leave the next day less than 24 hours later. Regent wanted to charge me $350 per person for the overnight connection. 

 

The person quoting the overnight connection charge might have been mistaken or the charge might have been included in Regent’s contract with the airline.  I took the path of least resistance and flew home from Heathrow the same day. 

 

 The fact that there is only one flight per day from Munich to Vancouver may make a difference. But you should not assume that Regent has a contract on a flight from Nice to Munich that will arrive after the  Munich to Vancouver flight leaves. 

 

Dave

Edited September 2, 2019 by DaveFr

[FlyerTalker]

30 minutes ago, jashah said:

There is only one flight per day on LH from MUC to YVR.  Thus, if I arrive in MUC from NCE in the evening and then depart from MUC to YVR the next day, this will be within 24 hours and the next flight out.  Will Regent consider this a connection and not charge me extra?

 

Regent is not the one making the determination of "connection" vs "stopover".  It's the airline and the IATA fare rules.

 

The question is whether this routing would be applicable to Regent's contract with LH.  And that's proprietary information that you would only find out when Regent gives you an answer.

[jashah]

I guess I need to decide where I'm willing to take the risk.  $350 x 4 extra for the overnight seems steep. 

 

Book myself at 355 days out and I get the itinerary I want but am at risk if the cruise arrives in Monte Carlo late.  Not worried about the departure as we're going to arrive in FCO a few days early.

 

Book with Regent at 270 days out and I may not get the itinerary I want and/or have to pay a lot more than necessary.  On the other hand, if there are any issues, it's their responsibility to solve them for me. I guess I could opt out and take the credit if I don't like what I'm offered at 270 days out but by then prices may be higher and options more limited.

[Travelcat2]

2 hours ago, jashah said:

Thanks again for the comments.

 

Yes, there does not seem to be any extra cost for a stopover in MUC when booking a “multi city” trip on the LH website.  Has anyone done this though Regent and aware of the extra cost?  

 

Being able to book 355 days out rather than 270 seems like an advantage, if the prices work out to be roughly the same.

 

We’re traveling with our kids so trying to break the travel home a bit. 

 

Firstly, it is important to note that FlyerTalker, DaveFR and I have recent experience with Regent (although FlyerTalker knows more than I do).  I would believe what he says over anyone else.  What you are describing is not a "multi-city" flight but rather is a stop-over.  In my opinion, Regent should not have to pay anything for passengers that want to take a few days in another city.  However, as has been said, it is up to the airline.  

 

Regent definitely has a contract with Lufthansa on most of their flights.  Since you have children, I assume that you are sailing in the summer of 2020.  In my opinion there is little different between booking 355 days prior to embarkation and booking 270 days out.  With Regent, unless you deviate (now known as Custom Air), they do not assign flights until around 75 days prior to embarkation.  That makes a huge difference.  And, what is the air credit that you will receive if you book your own flights.  Typically you will pay more to book your own flights than to deviate with Regent (at least this has been our experience).

 

The best advice that I can give is to contact your TA.  Hopefully you have a TA that regularly books Regent (and gives you a percentage back on your cruise) and can give you definitive answers.  Must say that I find it interesting that Lufthansa will permit you to book 355 days out.  This is unusual.  

[FlyerTalker]

Just now, Travelcat2 said:

What you are describing is not a "multi-city" flight but rather is a stop-over. 

 

The term "multi-city" is used when there are more than just one city-pair involved.  As TC says, it's not about stopovers mid-flight.

 

There are terms such as "open jaw" and "triangle fares" and others that come up.  Open jaw is sometimes equated to "multi-city", but open jaw has a specific rule that the unflown leg (the open part) of the triangle must be the shortest of the three.  Otherwise, it's priced as two one-ways.

 

For example, flying JFK to London and back to JFK from Paris would be an open jaw, since the unflown London-Paris leg is the shortest.  OTOH, something like New Orleans to Miami and then back to NO from Los Angeles wouldn't be, since the Miami-Los Angeles unflown segment isn't the shortest.  That would be priced as two one-ways.

 

Finally, "multi-city" is not an official term of art in the airline industry, so use with caution.

[jashah]

I guess my next question should be if anyone can recommend a good hotel for a family in Nice.  I imagine we would stay couple nights.

[Travelcat2]

25 minutes ago, FlyerTalker said:

 

Finally, "multi-city" is not an official term of art in the airline industry, so use with caution.

 

 

Thanks for the heads up - appreciate it!

 

Jashah - you might want to post your hotel question on the General Regent Board.  People look at this thread for airline information.  

[ROLLTIDE2]

Our return flight from Barcelona next year (booked through Regent’s Custom Air) is on KLM with an overnight in Amsterdam.  There was no additional charge, but we pay for our hotel in Amsterdam.

 

Lufthansa has a program where you can bid for upgrades.  We were able to upgrade Regent’s business class reservation to first class for a very reasonable amount.  It might not work for 4 people, and you have to bid to upgrade all passengers who are booked together.

 

We stayed at the Hyatt in Nice before our most recent cruise and really liked it.  It’s in a great location.

[rallydave]

Nothing unusual about non-US airlines booking flights 355 + days out from flight date..  US airlines allow bookings approx 330 days out but, many non-US airlines start closer to a year out.

 

[jashah]

I have been reading this topic thread and there seems to be a lot of discussion regarding people having to pay extra beyond the deviation fee when they book their “custom air” flights. Is this something I should expect or is this unusual?

 

My plan is to fly on LH and/or AC (they are codeshare partners) from YYJ to the YVR gateway then to/from Europe.  I expect to pay extra for the short legs between YYJ and YVR but don’t want to pay extra for the main flights.

 

Thx

[FlyerTalker]

2 hours ago, ROLLTIDE2 said:

Lufthansa has a program where you can bid for upgrades.  We were able to upgrade Regent’s business class reservation to first class for a very reasonable amount.  It might not work for 4 people, and you have to bid to upgrade all passengers who are booked together.

 

Which is a good reason for not putting everyone one the same PNR.  Even with four people booked on LH, it is easy to have those split into separate PNRs for each person.  So you might get one, or two or whatever number of upgrades are granted.

 

Another reason is that in case of irops (irregular operations), this might prove useful.  Let's say that the airline can get one reroute on a particular airline and one reroute on a different one.  Assuming a couple is willing to split up, they can get to their destinations and meet there.  Otherwise, they may have to wait until two seats are available together, as some systems will process based on the numbers available vs number traveling.

 

One case against splitting is if you are utilizing a credit card benefit for luggage.  This requires that everyone getting the luggage benefit be on the same "reservation" (PNR). So YMMV.

[FlyerTalker]

10 minutes ago, jashah said:

I have been reading this topic thread and there seems to be a lot of discussion regarding people having to pay extra beyond the deviation fee when they book their “custom air” flights. Is this something I should expect or is this unusual?

 

In very simple terms, a cruiseline contracts for a certain number of seats with an airline, with contract provisions covering cities, dates and routes.  There are some flexible conditions in those contracts, but the specifics are a trade secret between the two companies.  These are the baseline flights offered to the customer.

 

Now, if there is a request to deviate from the standard contract flight offering, it kicks into a separate mode.  Depending on the request (and again, that's a part of the contract), the requested flight may be available at the same contract rate (meaning no additional airfare pricing), available with a contracted price premium, or would be a purchase at the current spot market rate (including any discounts that the cruiseline may receive as a contract provision).   However, the customer has no real knowledge of where any particular request might be going into the process.

 

So the answer to your question is - it depends.  And the only way to know is to actually go through the process and get an answer back from the cruiseline.  I wish I could give you a more definitive answer, but there is a certain opaqueness to the process that's built in.  As always, YMMV.

[Travelcat2]

Another great explanation FlyerTalker.  Just wanted to add that there has been a discussion about flying Emirates to/from Dubai.  It sounds as if Regent has a contract for flights leaving from some East Coast airports but those on the West Coast.  So, someone in NYC could book Emirates through Regent and not pay an extra penny while those of us on the West Coast would have to pay $1,500/person.  However, we will likely fly Cathay Pacific (another airline that Regent has contracts with) and not have to pay the extra.  There are usually very good options for flights if you use Custom Air/Deviation.

[1982CruzStart]

On 9/1/2019 at 6:38 PM, FlyerTalker said:

Finally, "multi-city" is not an official term of art in the airline industry, so use with caution.

It may not be an official term for the airline industry but almost every airline site i visited uses the term when you go to book -  round trip, one-way or multi-city. So for those of us not as experienced as you the term is what we know. 

[Bolshoi]

We're approaching the 90 day (final payment) on a Papeete round trip.  Haven't heard a word from Regent regarding air travel and am getting concerned given that options (searched on Expedia) for LAX - PPT are not good (35+ hr 2-stop itineraries are common).  And I want those miles credited to our UA accounts.  File a deviation?