Passport - why so scary

[navybankerteacher]

[quote name='zekekelso']Oh for Pete's sake... it doesn't take long to issue a form, and we are talking about salaried employees so the net cost of issuing the form vs not is essentially $0.

When you have to resort to totally ridiculous arguments to back up your point, it's a good sign your point is wrong.[/QUOTE]

If US diplomatic or consular offices have sufficient salaried staff hanging around so they can process a couple of thousand repatriations on short notice, without negative impact on other activities, then you are correct. However that opens up the question of possible over-staffing at those offices.

[Warm Breezes]

[quote name='navybankerteacher']If US diplomatic or consular offices have sufficient salaried staff hanging around so they can process a couple of thousand repatriations on short notice, without negative impact on other activities, then you are correct. However that opens up the question of possible over-staffing at those offices.[/quote]

All the passengers on the ship didn't need the letter...just those without passports. I don't know the exact number but I'm pretty sure it wasn't a couple thousand.

[zekekelso]

[quote name='navybankerteacher']If US diplomatic or consular offices have sufficient salaried staff hanging around so they can process a couple of thousand repatriations on short notice, without negative impact on other activities, then you are correct. However that opens up the question of possible over-staffing at those offices.[/quote]

I suspect the offices are familiar with such concepts as computers, word processors and mail merges. When you have to reach and make ridiculous arguments, it's time to reexamine your viewpoints.

[paul929207]

Also, these people were cleared to board at the home port and need to be cleared to return.

Furthermore, the US may have charged the cruise lines a fee for expeditious processing of these requests. This may actually be helping to reduce our deficit.

[navybankerteacher]

[quote name='zekekelso']I suspect the offices are familiar with such concepts as computers, word processors and mail merges. When you have to reach and make ridiculous arguments, it's time to reexamine your viewpoints.[/QUOTE]

I was not making any argument, ridiculous or otherwise, simply commenting on a foolish statement that there would be zero cost in issuing the necessary waivers. You should try to understand a post before leaping to criticize it.

[CPT Trips]

[quote name='songbird1329']
Snip

Interesting what other countries allow . . . When we sailed to Belize and Honduras I looked up the passport requirements for each country. The official website for each country says US citizens entering the country must have passports. It does NOT say "unless you arrive by cruise ship on a closed loop cruise." As a practical matter the exception exists, because their economies are heavily dependent on cruise ship tourism.
Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2[/QUOTE]


"With the exception of cruise ship passengers, every visitor to Belize is required to have a valid passport."
[url]http://mybelizeexperience.com/about-belize/visas-entry-requirements/[/url]

[CPT Trips]

If it's such a big deal, let's have a Special Prosecutor sort out the issuance of an en mass passport waiver for people already in the reentery system. It seems like simple ministerial function to issue an exemption and then make a reentry decision after examining the documents individually at the POE just as would happen absent the broken ship.

[sail7seas]

[quote name='CPT Trips']If it's such a big deal, let's have a Special Prosecutor sort out the issuance of an en mass passport waiver for people already in the reentery system. It seems like simple ministerial function to issue an exemption and then make a reentry decision after examining the documents individually at the POE just as would happen absent the broken ship.[/quote]


[b] This sounds pretty logical to me but what do I know? :D

[/B]

[sparks1093]

[quote name='songbird1329']Wrong, wrong, wrong.

The forms were processed and issued by salaried employees, I assume, so the actual cost can't be calculated in currency. So saying it cost $0 is technically accurate. No one was paid overtime to deal with this disaster.

What I am talking about is the "cost" in terms of workloads and manpower hours. It's not just this form, it's every time someone needs an emergency passport because they're stranded and sailed without one.

Every efficiency expert would be quick to point out that doing something in advance is less costly than doing it on an emergency basis.

Sent from my SCH-I800 using Tapatalk 2[/quote]

This is part of the job duties and functions for the employees involved and it was a part of their job duties and functions even before the closed loop exception was thought of. I do not think that the DHS employees that authored the regulations envisioned a cruise ship itself getting stranded in a foreign port with passengers not possessing passports. It appeared during the Splendor fiasco that they had been caught off guard with no procedures in place to deal with processing passengers that needed to travel home without a passport through no fault of their own.

Now after a couple of more incidents it appears that they do have procedures in place to take care of things. There may be a calculatable cost associated with processing any traveler that needs assistance (and I am referring to all travelers, not just those on closed loop cruises) but that is a service that is available to all travelers and as I said that assistance is part of the job duties for people in those positions- it is one of the things that they get paid for. Edited June 2, 2013 by sparks1093

[CPT Trips]

[quote name='sail7seas'][b] This sounds pretty logical to me but what do I know? :D

[/B][/QUOTE]

I was attempting to be sarcastic . . . guess it didn't work. The concern about this decision and its cost is really much ado about nothing. I'll bet taxpayers spent much more issuing emergency replacement passports to the Concordia pax.

[LuckyZ]

[quote name='cb at sea']If I don't NEED it, I won't pay for it....simple![/QUOTE]

Cliche-fest

Pay me now, or pay me later. If you are the minority that does get stranded, you'll probably pay more to straighten things out than it would have cost for the passports to start with.

Again, each persons decision to take on that risk and hassle.

Doesn't seem like this thread has convinced anyone to cross over to the other side.

[sparks1093]

[quote name='LuckyZ']Doesn't seem like this thread has convinced anyone to cross over to the other side.[/quote]

If that was your intent, no, it probably hasn't. But keep in mind that lots of people read the threads on Cruise Critic looking for advice and they don't necessarily participate in the threads (this thread has had over 17,000 views:)). I haven't debated anyone on this thread in order to convince them of anything and I haven't even participated to convince anyone else- I have participated to share my personal point of view and experience. If that helps someone make up their mind, fine. If not, well, that's fine, too.:)

[LuckyZ]

[quote name='sparks1093']If that was your intent, no, it probably hasn't. But keep in mind that lots of people read the threads on Cruise Critic looking for advice and they don't necessarily participate in the threads (this thread has had over 17,000 views:)). I haven't debated anyone on this thread in order to convince them of anything and I haven't even participated to convince anyone else- I have participated to share my personal point of view and experience. If that helps someone make up their mind, fine. If not, well, that's fine, too.:)[/quote]

Well put & well said.

[Quilting_Cruiser]

[quote name='sparks1093']If that was your intent, no, it probably hasn't. But keep in mind that lots of people read the threads on Cruise Critic looking for advice and they don't necessarily participate in the threads (this thread has had over 17,000 views:)). I haven't debated anyone on this thread in order to convince them of anything and I haven't even participated to convince anyone else- I have participated to share my personal point of view and experience. If that helps someone make up their mind, fine. If not, well, that's fine, too.:)[/quote]


Agreed. And, I'm not the only one on the thread who travels with a passport but believes people should make choices for themselves, so there was no convincing to be done on my part. :D

[paul929207]

[quote name='Quilting_Cruiser']Agreed. And, I'm not the only one on the thread who travels with a passport but believes people should make choices for themselves, so there was no convincing to be done on my part. :D[/QUOTE]
Put me in that group to. I have a passport, but understand others not wanting one.

[Sipsey]

I have a question. Maybe somewhere in the 500 posts that precede this one, it is already answered, but I'm not going to read all of them.

We got passports a few years ago, because at the time it was stated by the government that you would need it for all out of country travel, to get back into the U.S. I think a deadline date for this was set. At least, that is what I understood back then. Did that get postponed, or what? If so, is it still going to happen at some point?

[sparks1093]

[quote name='Sipsey']I have a question. Maybe somewhere in the 500 posts that precede this one, it is already answered, but I'm not going to read all of them.

We got passports a few years ago, because at the time it was stated by the government that you would need it for all out of country travel, to get back into the U.S. I think a deadline date for this was set. At least, that is what I understood back then. Did that get postponed, or what? If so, is it still going to happen at some point?[/quote]

It did become a requirement but there are exceptions and traveling on a closed loop cruise is one of them. You may use a passport, passport card, Enhanced Driver's License, NEXUS/SENTRI card or government issued birth certificate coupled with a government photo ID (other documents are also acceptable but those seem to be the most common ones).

[Sipsey]

It doesn't sound like much of a requirement if there are that many exceptions to it.

Are these exceptions going to be eventually phased out?

[paul929207]

[quote name='Sipsey']It doesn't sound like much of a requirement if there are that many exceptions to it.

Are these exceptions going to be eventually phased out?[/QUOTE]
At this time there is no plan to eliminate the exemptions and require every person entering to have a passport. Every four years, we have an election, so you never know when/if it might change.

[sparks1093]

[quote name='Sipsey']It doesn't sound like much of a requirement if there are that many exceptions to it.

Are these exceptions going to be eventually phased out?[/quote]

Anything is possible but the regulations are final and probably not likely to change.

[sail7seas]

[quote name='CPT Trips']I was attempting to be sarcastic . . . guess it didn't work. The concern about this decision and its cost is really much ado about nothing. I'll bet taxpayers spent much more issuing emergency replacement passports to the Concordia pax.[/quote]


[B] I'm confused......

How would any U.S. passengers have managed to exit U.S. and enter Italy to board Concordia without passports?
Or are you speaking of those that were not retrieved when people fled the ship and ran for their lives?
Fast and easy to replace a passport. Much faster/easier than for a first time passport.

[/B]

[paul929207]

[quote name='sail7seas'][B] I'm confused......

How would any U.S. passengers have managed to exit U.S. and enter Italy to board Concordia without passports?
Or are you speaking of those that were not retrieved when people fled the ship and ran for their lives?
Fast and easy to replace a passport. Much faster/easier than for a first time passport.

[/B][/QUOTE]
I took the previous post to mean replacing passports that were lost when passengers abandoned the Concordia.

[browneyedwoman]

[quote name='frayedend']When I book a cruise I don't want to spend another $480 so we can have passports when we don't need them. The reason I mention timing is simply this. If we are booking a cruise we don't really have an extra $480. If we aren't booking a cruise it doesn't seem to make sense to spend $480 for no reason.[/quote]


If you plan on traveling out of the country even once a year over a long period of time it is well worth the initial investment. You could spread out getting the passorts over time. If you have two adults and three kids to buy them for, you could buy one person in yout family a passport each year for five years. Then the renewal dates (and costs) will be staggered.

[ladycooki3]

I think it was postpone because I needed mines a few months ago

[Warm Breezes]

[quote name='browneyedwoman']If you plan on traveling out of the country even once a year over a long period of time it is well worth the initial investment. You could spread out getting the passorts over time. If you have two adults and three kids to buy them for, you could buy one person in yout family a passport each year for five years. Then the renewal dates (and costs) will be staggered.[/quote]

Worth is subjective. We cruised 9 times in the past 12 years with no need for a passport. Following your advice and getting passports for our entire family for those cruises would have meant spending over $1000 that we did not need to spend. Would the peace of mind have been worth it to me having passports for those 9 cruises....no. Edited June 6, 2013 by Warm Breezes