Two people missing from Carnival Cruise ship as it docks in Sydney

[Sandielle]

"Desert dwellers seem to like visit the sea, no matter the time of year"

 

Is a bit of an oxymoron so perhaps a joke I may have missed:confused: can you explain it:confused: I am still lost:confused:

 

Den

 

I would take it to mean that this poster lives inland and loves to visit the sea even for winter holidays and made the remark in case it was thought strange to take beach hols in winter.

 

Having lived in North-western Qld most of our lives we always headed for the nearest beach for winter and summer holidays.

 

Just saying - I might be completely wrong.

 

Whatever, my thoughts are with the families of these young people. Such a devastating time for them.

[NSWP]

Apparently there is CCTV footage, so I ask the question 'Why was the CCTV apparently NOT being monitered by ship's security staff.' From what I know, the ship did not stop or slow to commence a search. Following the investigation by NSW Police Marine Area Command, the NSW Coroner would be real interested in this aspect.

 

A sad affair.

[need_a_holiday]

The names of the passengers have been released, abc radio has a transcript suggesting cruise lines are not doing enough to detect these incidents and that discovering that two passengers went overboard 14 hours after it happened was not good enough:

 

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-05-10/cruise-industry-urged-to-report-missing-people/4681012?section=nsw

 

I thought some ships already used overboard sensors. It certainly would make carnival look much better if they had launched a rescue right after the incident had occurred,

[Steve & Sue]

I would take it to mean that this poster lives inland and loves to visit the sea even for winter holidays and made the remark in case it was thought strange to take beach hols in winter.

 

Having lived in North-western Qld most of our lives we always headed for the nearest beach for winter and summer holidays.

 

Just saying - I might be completely wrong.

 

Whatever, my thoughts are with the families of these young people. Such a devastating time for them.

 

Thankyou. I have had a migraine for over a week and when I posted this I didn't really think of how it sounded. We live 450km from the nearest beach and go to the ocean for every holiday. I made the remark just in case someone did think it strange that we went to the beach for Winter no matter how cold it is.

 

I have been worrying for these people and their families and hope they get found.

[The_Big_M]

Apparently there is CCTV footage, so I ask the question 'Why was the CCTV apparently NOT being monitered by ship's security staff.'

 

The cameras would very likely have been monitored. However, with 100s of cameras onboard it's not possible to monitor every single camera every second (unless you have hundreds of security staff, which I doubt anyone wants!).

 

Unless the couple were fooling around on the balcony for some time, they may well not have been seen. Something falling will go past in a matter of seconds, so is very likely to be missed. This is why they ask you to notify ship personnel as soon as someone falls overboard, to get a response as soon as possible. It's not good enough to rely on cameras, or someone else.

[NSWP]

The cameras would very likely have been monitored. However, with 100s of cameras onboard it's not possible to monitor every single camera every second (unless you have hundreds of security staff, which I doubt anyone wants!).

 

Unless the couple were fooling around on the balcony for some time, they may well not have been seen. Something falling will go past in a matter of seconds, so is very likely to be missed. This is why they ask you to notify ship personnel as soon as someone falls overboard, to get a response as soon as possible. It's not good enough to rely on cameras, or someone else.

Yes, I agree, just appears unfortunate they were not seen on CCTV by the security officer monitoring the security systems.

[MicCanberra]

We can speculate as to how or why this happened but only two people really know and sadly we may never get their reason. Hopefully, I am wrong and they are found alive. It is sad for their family no matter what the reason and my condolences go to them.

[MicCanberra]

We can speculate as to how or why this happened but only two people really know and sadly we may never get their reason. Hopefully, I am wrong and they are found alive. It is sad for their family no matter what the reason and my condolences go to them.

From the ABC news website.

Mark Hutchings from the NSW Police Marine Area Command says it is unclear whether the pair jumped or fell.

"[The footage] does depict a person going over and then a short time [later] another person going over. We can't tell from the footage which is which," he said.

He said search teams were "still holding out hope" the pair would be found alive, but added "it's getting more and more difficult as time goes on".

[Sutho]

Yes, I agree, just appears unfortunate they were not seen on CCTV by the security officer monitoring the security systems.

 

It is wrong that the security were not paying proper attention. It also suggests a lack of proper security by the cruise line. In todays modern technological world there are computer programs that can set off an alarm if a person was seen falling off a cruise ships. These programs are used at airports and have the ability to use a program to watch passengers who leave luggage unattended, an alarm then goes off alerting security to review the footage. If such computer programs are possible for airports and security it is certainly possible for cruise lines.

 

Also it might be of interest to others that our Navy ships have a guard on duty while ever the ship is at sea watching over the wake to make sure no one falls overboard. They are on shifts of on hour only to avoid fatigue and each hour someone on duty releives them.

 

In my opinion the only way to go would be to invest in a computer program that monitors footage in real time and can detect objects going over the side of the ship and the video cameras need to have the ability to detect body warmth in the cold waters and also variations in temperature.

 

Unfortunately unless these people have made it to shore by some miracle they would well and truely be dead by now from the inhospitible cold elements of the sea. Statistics are against them this time of year. Although not as cold as when the Titanic went down, the human body cannot withstand the cold for too long.

[CruiseyLife]

I'll be talking about cruise ship safety on ABC Radio today at 3.40pm (SYD time), discussing exactly the things mentioned here e.g. is it time for motion detection technology on side of ships?

 

Highly unusual for a couple to go overboard. Note, I use "go" not "fell", as we don't know. Horrible, however it happened.

 

So much for yesterday's happy news about Carnival Legend joining the party in Sydney. Hope everyone's OK.

 

Louise, Editor, Cruise Weekly

[dougo in oz]

It is wrong that the security were not paying proper attention. It also suggests a lack of proper security by the cruise line.

 

 

I agree - while monitoring CCTV, security could not have stopped someone falling overboard regardless of whether it was intended or not, but monitoring could have at least resulted in the vessel slowing then stopping to conduct a search.

 

A Dr on board a Carnival PLC ship told me that they experience at least one suicide attempt or threat every cruise in these waters ... whether that is true or not, I don't know.

 

I do feel for their families, I'd be interested to see what support if any is given to them from Carnival (and I'm not talking about $$).

[joejoe 59]

I would take it to mean that this poster lives inland and loves to visit the sea even for winter holidays and made the remark in case it was thought strange to take beach hols in winter.

 

Having lived in North-western Qld most of our lives we always headed for the nearest beach for winter and summer holidays.

 

Just saying - I might be completely wrong.

 

Whatever, my thoughts are with the families of these young people. Such a devastating time for them.

I read it exactly as you did. We love the ocean whether it be at home or somewhere really cold in winter.

I feel very sorry for the families involved, you can only imagine their pain.

[NSWP]

According to a press release by Anne Sherry - CEO of Carnival, security staff on board Carnival Spirit 'Were focussing on public areas' at the time of the incident.

[Pushka]

They can't be watching everywhere all the time.

[Australian family]

Very sad.

 

What a shame the footage wasn't seen on CCTV on the ship by security staff when they fell overboard. One has to wonder how good their security is.

 

I remember reading something when we cruised on the Oosterdam that HAL are trialling heat sensors for people falling overboard.

[MicCanberra]

I'll be talking about cruise ship safety on ABC Radio today at 3.40pm (SYD time), discussing exactly the things mentioned here e.g. is it time for motion detection technology on side of ships?

 

Highly unusual for a couple to go overboard. Note, I use "go" not "fell", as we don't know. Horrible, however it happened.

 

So much for yesterday's happy news about Carnival Legend joining the party in Sydney. Hope everyone's OK.

 

Louise, Editor, Cruise Weekly

Shame I missed it, I hope whatever the reasons and outcome for these two people, that the cruise industry can improve the safety onboard so that these type of incidents can be identified quicker. BTW, welcome to Cruise critic.:D

[NSWP]

Don't forget these are old ships we are getting down here and I doubt Carnival will invest in hi tech security as Sutho suggests due to costs. I was on Carnival Spirit in 2005 Hawaii to Alaska, she had few CCTV cameras then, but I believe she has been retro fitted with additional CCTV's for her Australian duties, much the same as Regal Princess was when she was rebirthed as Pacific Dawn, cameras were tripled to 'cater' for the P&O 'party mob.' I was on last cruise of Regal Princess, in 2007, LA to Sydney and I can tell you on the 30 day trip over they were fitting CCTV cameras all over Regal Princess, ready for Australia.

 

Anyway, my thoughts and prayers are with the families of the missing couple and with the searchers out there on the sea and in the air.

[Sutho]

Looks like there is an update here: http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/2013/05/10/08/18/search-continues-for-nsw-cruise-couple

 

There are reports that the girlfriend fell first and her boyfriend jumped in after her to save her.

 

Carnival is defending their safety standards saying the rails are too high to fall off. In other words and we all know it is impossible to fall it was not the cruise lines fault.

 

If I was travelling with anyone, no matter who it was, if they went over the side in circumstances as elluded to in the news report I would not be jumping in after anyone. They tell you raise the alarm and throw something in after them.

[Pushka]

They are saying that the girl fell and her boyfriend, a medic, jumped in to save her. I think it's first instinct to jump in.

[Sutho]

I think it's first instinct to jump in.

 

Not first instict for me. That just the same as suicide jumping in with no chance of help or assistance from anyone.

[Mothballs]

Not first instict for me. That just the same as suicide jumping in with no chance of help or assistance from anyone.

I understand that you are rigid with your views but you don't know how you would react in a situation like this. How you think you would act and the reality might be very different.

My empathy is for the poor families of this couple. They are going through hell right now.

Regards Elaine.

[gek]

They are saying that the girl fell and her boyfriend, a medic, jumped in to save her. I think it's first instinct to jump in.

 

Maybe. Maybe not. Whatever the instinct if you don't grab your life jackets first it is suicide.

[The_Big_M]

It is wrong that the security were not paying proper attention. It also suggests a lack of proper security by the cruise line. In todays modern technological world there are computer programs that can set off an alarm if a person was seen falling off a cruise ships. These programs are used at airports and have the ability to use a program to watch passengers who leave luggage unattended, an alarm then goes off alerting security to review the footage. If such computer programs are possible for airports and security it is certainly possible for cruise lines.

 

I don't agree.

 

As for comparing with airports, we all know how people complain about all the 'security levies' that people pay, as well as the high charges at Macquarie airports. You can pay for things - but then people complain that they're getting ripped off. You can't have it both ways.

 

The second point is that there's a lot more land, and terminals can be easily rebuilt to put in new monitoring rooms, new cabling and cameras and so forth.

 

Redesigning and recabling a ship is a far more complicated and costly proposition. Then you need sufficient room and staff for people to monitor all those cameras. Moreover nothing is foolproof, as we've seen with the airport security you refer to.

 

I'm of the view the cruise lines have sufficient monitoring in place. I also don't see that two people could fall off a secured balcony with an interval between them, accidentally.

[sherri3802]

From the news report, it sounded as if the girlfriend fell in by accident. If that is the case, I can only think she may have been messing around on the balcony railing.

Obviously the best thing for the boyfriend to have done was throw in a lifebuoy if one was close by, but just as importantly, immediately raise the alarm with staff, who could have swung into a rescue operation straight away.

I think it would be possible to go overboard in very rough weather. I have seen some amazing photos of cruise ships suddenly dipping in bad storms and being outside near a railing then could be really dangerous, but from all accounts, the weather wasn't like that.

CCTV footage usually is useful after an event, but no human can monitor dozens of cameras every second. Maybe those computer programs people are talking of would eventually be the way to go.

But everything comes down to cost, I suppose.

[Pushka]

If they were on their own balcony then there is no way to quickly let anyone know and nor is there any flotation equipment available. If they were on their own balcony then I find it strange there is actually CCTV available