Two people missing from Carnival Cruise ship as it docks in Sydney

[Tigerman00]

Surely they do not make the promenade deck out of bounds?? Never heard of that?

K

[Kiwi Kruzer]

Surely they do not make the promenade deck out of bounds?? Never heard of that?

K

 

I have never heard of that either...:eek:

except in very heavy stormy weather.

 

 

 

[Sutho]

I have heard in the US their promenade decks are out of bounds, that is why I am seeking confirmation.

[CruisinCat31]

 

 

Also can anyone who has been on Carnival Spirit in Australia conform if Carnival still makes the promenade deck out of bounds while at sea. If so this could have something to do with the lack of witnesses to the incident.

 

I am assuming in overboard situations the cruise line would probably be assuming that there would be witnesses hence the lack of motion detection filming and watch keeping at the stern.

 

I was on the cruise when the couple went overboard. Promenade deck was open but I couldn't believe how under utilised it was for the whole cruise compared to on other ships I've been on. There was often no one out there, and the most I ever saw was a few, I think it is due to the lack of deck chairs, and just the general design/flow of the ship also contributed to it.

 

I actually mentioned to someone that they should let the smokers out there as it would reduce the number of smokers up on the starboard pool deck, which was always packed. (I'm not a smoker)

 

I did think when I heard about the incident that if this had happened on any other ship I'd been on they would have been spotted from the promenade deck. Particularly as one person hit a lifeboat.

 

It is a very sad incident, but I agree the public needs to be made somewhat aware of what occurred, the fact that the initial person climbed over the railing is critical. I know it must be terrible for the family, and they have also said that alcohol wasn't involved and there is no way it was a suicide and that it must have been an accident, but I can't comprehend why anyone would climb out there for any reason.

[MicCanberra]

I was on the cruise when the couple went overboard. Promenade deck was open but I couldn't believe how under utilised it was for the whole cruise compared to on other ships I've been on. There was often no one out there, and the most I ever saw was a few, I think it is due to the lack of deck chairs, and just the general design/flow of the ship also contributed to it.

 

I actually mentioned to someone that they should let the smokers out there as it would reduce the number of smokers up on the starboard pool deck, which was always packed. (I'm not a smoker)

 

I did think when I heard about the incident that if this had happened on any other ship I'd been on they would have been spotted from the promenade deck. Particularly as one person hit a lifeboat.

 

It is a very sad incident, but I agree the public needs to be made somewhat aware of what occurred, the fact that the initial person climbed over the railing is critical. I know it must be terrible for the family, and they have also said that alcohol wasn't involved and there is no way it was a suicide and that it must have been an accident, but I can't comprehend why anyone would climb out there for any reason.

It may or may not have been suicide, but the minute you go on the outside of the barrier, it is not safe and you are intentionally putting yourself in danger. :(

[CruisinCat31]

It may or may not have been suicide, but the minute you go on the outside of the barrier, it is not safe and you are intentionally putting yourself in danger. :(

 

And your loved ones at risk of grief.

[Pushka]

I agree that the real pain is for the families, this must be so hard for them.

But I do think the public deserves the facts, as far as they are known. It's human nature to speculate.

Just being told that 2 people have been lost overboard is a worry. Those who haven't sailed could very well think ships are more dangerous than they are.

It clarifies things a lot to be told the woman climbed over the rail and stood there for a while, they had been fighting earlier, and he followed her after her fall.

Maybe we don't know exactly what went on between them, but in its own way, this information at least gives some answers to the family. If it happened to one of mine, I would want to know.

 

The Public doesn't deserve to know anything really, unless it is a matter of Public Safety. The Family of course, does have a right to know. Given the thousands of people who are on cruises every day around the world, if this sad event made you not want to cruise, then my thoughts are that you wouldn't have cruised in the first place.

 

The Facts? most likely no-one will find those out.

[Aussieflyer]

Whilst not speculation in the true meaning of the term, the comments about how stupid the young man was and that somehow he is responsible for the (probable) deaths because he did not react appropriately are the sort of things that I feel do not need airing at this time and do not add anything to an understanding of what happened.

I know it is human nature to speculate but when there are several different "explanations" of what occurred IMO it serves no useful purpose.

[Sutho]

The Public doesn't deserve to know anything really, unless it is a matter of Public Safety. The Family of course, does have a right to know. Given the thousands of people who are on cruises every day around the world, if this sad event made you not want to cruise, then my thoughts are that you wouldn't have cruised in the first place.

 

The Facts? most likely no-one will find those out.

 

I think this qualifies as public safety and they do have a right to know. For all the potential passengers past, future and present, falling off a cruise ship raises serious questions and it is imperative to get it in the public forum that the woman in question jumped the rails and it was ultimately her own stupid fault rather than the fault of negligible maintenance, poor guard rails or some fault of the ship.

 

Also second to that passenger safety drils held on every cruise before sailing have the same sentence "if you see someone go over the side of the ship raise the alarm....shout man overboard and throw in lifejackets and any items that float..." Obviously this man no matter how impulsive he was did not listen and pay attention to the legally required public safety announcements. Had he listened to it he would be alive to day and possibly his girlfriend.

 

Sorry if this seems harsh, but it is the cold hard turth. These people have no one to blame but themselves for acting stupidly, not following saftey directions installed into them when boarding and particularly to the boyfriend for not raising the alarm. It is exactly the same as suicide jumping off the side of a ship to save someone whithout telling anyone you are going in or raising the alarm first.

 

I know this sounds harsh but no more of this cotton wool BS lets hide the facts for the family's sake, the public have a right to know, it is a matter of public safety and if getting the story out there saves some other poor fools from acting stupidly and killing themselves then it has done good making the story public. As I said it is drilled into them at the emergency drill on day 1 not to climb or sit on the rails.

 

Further more it is no different to the stories of these idiots pulling "planking" stunts for the photos they were taking a few years back when stupid fools "planked" on high rise balconys falling to their ultimate death.

[Aussie Claire]

How a human being reacts to a stressful situation will always be debateable.

 

I am in favour of a "Panic Button" in each cabin, and having it discussed at every life boat drill on the first day.

 

In the case of an emergency who do you call? do you call your Cabin Steward or Customer Relations. I know for a fact if you call Customer Relations you can be put on hold (in a cue) waiting for someone to answer.

 

Lets all look forward to finding a better solution for an emergency situation.

[CruisinCat31]

How a human being reacts to a stressful situation will always be debateable.

 

I am in favour of a "Panic Button" in each cabin, and having it discussed at every life boat drill on the first day.

 

In the case of an emergency who do you call? do you call your Cabin Steward or Customer Relations. I know for a fact if you call Customer Relations you can be put on hold (in a cue) waiting for someone to answer.

 

Lets all look forward to finding a better solution for an emergency situation.

 

There are signs up all over the ship saying 'in case of emergency dial 911' I noticed them as I thought it was weird, but I certainly had in my head that's what to do if there was an emergency. Opening your cabin door and screaming 'Man Overboard' would probably work equally as well. Although who knows, the man in this instance may have actually done that, and no one heard him.

[Wyuna1]

As devastating and sad as this occurrence is it is to my knowledge only the second incident in the last 18 months involving Australian based ships.

As has been detailed in many other posts the persons involved have put themselves in danger, it is virtually impossible to just "Fall overboard".

To blame the cruise line for their lack of safety on board is misdirected. How many people are killed by trains, do we blame State Rail for these unfortunate occurrences and put barriers along the length of station platforms, do we blame Holden and Ford for the massive death toll on our roads?.

It is certainly safer to travel by ship internationally than any other form of mass transport.

My heart goes out to the families for the loss of this young couple but I do not feel that the cruise line could have, from what has been released done any more having no knowledge of any persons missing until almost 12 Hours after.

We will never know the cause but if instructions given at all safety drills prior to the cruise departing had been followed perhaps we would all be discussing what a great job the line did in saving these young people.

[The_Big_M]

How many people are killed by trains, do we blame State Rail for these unfortunate occurrences and put barriers along the length of station platforms, do we blame Holden and Ford for the massive death toll on our roads?.

 

Unfortunately yes. It seems to be society today. People don't have to be responsible for themselves, but 'authorities' have to be responsible for everyone else.

 

Regarding Cityrail, there have been crashes on tracks where fools ignored crossing lights then got hit on the crossing. And then you'd have people saying it needs even more warnings/lights/blockings to cater for the foolish. Or with the roads, police have controls on having to call off pursuits and other activities, and checks to ensure that these protocols are followed. When you do get criminals running away, as happened in Canberra not that long ago, who then crash because of their stupidity and lawlessness, some then blame the police!

[Aus Traveller]

This incident is terribly sad for the families of both of the young people, but I think the facts of the incident should be made public. Not that we are "entitled" to know, but simply to put to rest some of the ideas floating around in the community.

 

In the last several days, my husband and I have each met people (one was our dentist) who commented on this tragic incident with the implication that it is dangerous to travel on cruiseships because of what can happen. We have then explained how high the rails are and that it isn't possible to fall overboard by accident unless the person is doing something stupid. To even sit on the rails is stupid and against the "rules" but to stand on the outside of the rails is beyond reasonable comprehension. It doesn't get us anywhere to speculate on what caused her to do this.

 

It is very unfortunate if Carnival and the whole cruise industry are tainted by this incident.

[timtam2]

I like the idea of a panic button, but people would probably press it when their room service hadnt arrived.like the people who call 000 when their TV is broken.

[MicCanberra]

I like the idea of a panic button, but people would probably press it when their room service hadnt arrived.like the people who call 000 when their TV is broken.

Yes, but as a safety aspect may be worth having, although there is the phone already.:D

[iheartbda]

I have heard in the US their promenade decks are out of bounds, that is why I am seeking confirmation.

Heard where or from whom?

Promenade decks have never been off limits except if the seas are rough. Generally is it only one side...the stormy side. Can't say I ever saw it closed on both side but I could have a little lapse of memory.

[Aus Traveller]

I have seen promenade decks closed in really rough or very windy weather on several ships.

[MicCanberra]

I have seen promenade decks closed in really rough or very windy weather on several ships.

Yes, if the deck is getting wet and slippery, they tend to close them to the public for safety issues. :D

[cruisine21]

Yes, if the deck is getting wet and slippery, they tend to close them to the public for safety issues. :D

They also empty the pools and spas if the seas are really rough including the indoor ones. They did this when we were on the Radiance last year coming back from Hawaii.

[By The Bay]

I wonder how many security people are actually on the ship and how many were monitoring the monitors ... I don't think we'll ever know TBH..

 

From today's Cruise Weekly https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://archive.traveldaily.com.au/tdarchive/CW/2013/May13/cw140513.pdf

 

"The Spirit has more than 20 security staff, although only four people are monitoring the 600 CCTV cameras, Sherry told the media last week."

[MicCanberra]

From today's Cruise Weekly https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://archive.traveldaily.com.au/tdarchive/CW/2013/May13/cw140513.pdf

 

"The Spirit has more than 20 security staff, although only four people are monitoring the 600 CCTV cameras, Sherry told the media last week."

Even with some movement detecting capabilities, this would be a mammoth task monitoring the whole ship. I suppose if people obey the rules, than a lot of these incidents could be avoided. So tragic.:D

[dougo in oz]

Even with some movement detecting capabilities, this would be a mammoth task monitoring the whole ship. I suppose if people obey the rules, than a lot of these incidents could be avoided. So tragic.:D

 

I agree with you - a mammoth task monitoring the whole ship but at least with movement detecting capability, I would hope that it could detect movement where there wasn't supposed to be movement and send some sort of alarm or alert to security so they could then view the CCTV for that section of the ship and undertake further investigations.

 

Finding out about a "man overboard" situation several hours after the event was too late for this couple unfortunately.

[bazzaw]

I agree with you - a mammoth task monitoring the whole ship but at least with movement detecting capability, I would hope that it could detect movement where there wasn't supposed to be movement and send some sort of alarm or alert to security so they could then view the CCTV for that section of the ship and undertake further investigations.

 

Finding out about a "man overboard" situation several hours after the event was too late for this couple unfortunately.

 

In this particular case, even this may have been insufficient. I am under the impression that the people fell from a Balcony cabin?? I don't know if I am correct about that but that is the impression I have gained from the newspapers.

 

Also, we regularly walk around the Promenade deck at night - we have a fascination with watching the ship's wake close up and we have often joked that we wonder if security staff on the cameras think we may be thinking of jumping -- "There's that couple again, looking over the stern rail"!!!!

 

Barry

[bazzaw]

I know this is a Forum for discussion -- but I don't think that anything can be gained from discussion of a case like this. We don't know how these people went over the rail - but whether it was voluntary or involuntary, it is not something that would affect most passengers. We saw on our VOS cruise, a couple where the woman was sitting/posing on a place where she shouldn't have been while her male partner took photos of her. They probably thought it was quite safe -- but unintentional "accidents" do happen.

 

Barry