AA 777 1st vs. Business?

[TMLAalum]

Flying from Shanghai-ORD next May. We have enough AAdvantage miles for either 1st or Business and I am seeking advice/opinions on whether flying Business would provide a comfortable enough experience to justify saving the mileage difference to book 1st.

 

Looking forward to your responses!

[Kamloops50]

Flying from Shanghai-ORD next May. We have enough AAdvantage miles for either 1st or Business and I am seeking advice/opinions on whether flying Business would provide a comfortable enough experience to justify saving the mileage difference to book 1st.

 

Looking forward to your responses!

 

If 1st has sleeper seats and business normal type seats go for the 1st otherwise business.

[ducklite]

AA business on the 777 is a fully 180 degree lie flat bed, so I'd save the miles and go business.

[Zach1213]

Having done both, I would save my miles. In fact, I am - my wife and I are doing out honeymoon in July to Thailand, and we're doing First Class out (since we are taking Cathay Pacific), but Business Class back because we could only get on AA and I thought it wasn't worth it for F on AA.

 

I very rarely think F is worth it, even using miles. If it was just a "normal" trip, I wouldn't do it, but I decided we should for our honeymoon. F is nice, definitely, but I'd rather just fly J class, save the miles, and have another trip down the road. That's my opinion.

 

AA business on the 777 is a fully 180 degree lie flat bed, so I'd save the miles and go business.

Incorrect. On the 777-300 it is true lie flat, on the 777-200 it's angled. 777-200 is flying PVG-ORD.

[Gardyloo]

There's no way of knowing whether AA will have a 773 on PVG-ORD next May or not, or indeed if they'll even have a 772 with the current configuration flying it. AA is converting the existing 772s to a 2-class configuration with new lie-flat beds in business, but no first class on the plane at all; only the 773s will have first class. But the timetable for these conversions is not very clear at this point, so it's a crapshoot.

 

As Zach says, the existing business class seats on the 772s are not horizontal lie-flat, they're slightly angled foot-down. I think they're okay, but there are many business class seats that are way, way better. The existing first class Flagship Suites, on the other hand, are dated but incredibly comfortable - big, wide fully flat beds, a very cool chair that swivels so you can face the window.. love 'em. Not the world's best AVOD but decent, and service in AA F is invariably terrific. If your flight was today, I'd book first class and not think twice about it.

 

However, I'd be irresponsible not to mention an alternative. For the same miles (either business or first class) you could fly from Shanghai to Hong Kong and then to Chicago on Cathay Pacific's 77W. Longer trip, but OMG - either business or first class on Cathay Pacific are... words fail.

[Zach1213]

There's no way of knowing whether AA will have a 773 on PVG-ORD next May or not, or indeed if they'll even have a 772 with the current configuration flying it. AA is converting the existing 772s to a 2-class configuration with new lie-flat beds in business, but no first class on the plane at all; only the 773s will have first class. But the timetable for these conversions is not very clear at this point, so it's a crapshoot.

 

As Zach says, the existing business class seats on the 772s are not horizontal lie-flat, they're slightly angled foot-down. I think they're okay, but there are many business class seats that are way, way better. The existing first class Flagship Suites, on the other hand, are dated but incredibly comfortable - big, wide fully flat beds, a very cool chair that swivels so you can face the window.. love 'em. Not the world's best AVOD but decent, and service in AA F is invariably terrific. If your flight was today, I'd book first class and not think twice about it.

 

However, I'd be irresponsible not to mention an alternative. For the same miles (either business or first class) you could fly from Shanghai to Hong Kong and then to Chicago on Cathay Pacific's 77W. Longer trip, but OMG - either business or first class on Cathay Pacific are... words fail.

 

Agreed about Cathay Pacific. I think it would be worth a stop, as I have down both ORD-PVG (AA) and ORD-HKG-PVG (CX). Hong Kong Airport is a pleasure, and the little extra time is a good exchange for more comfort in my mind.

 

AA's new 777-300 business class is the same as CX's 777-300 business class, but CX has better service and food in my book (having now flown on the AA 777-300 and the CX 777-300)

[ducklite]

Incorrect. On the 777-300 it is true lie flat, on the 777-200 it's angled. 777-200 is flying PVG-ORD.

 

I was under the impression that they are reconfiguring all 777 long haul business seats to be the 180 degree lie flat, and this is scheduled to be finished by the end of the year. Maybe I read it wrong or was thinking of something else, but I don't think so.

[TMLAalum]

 

However, I'd be irresponsible not to mention an alternative. For the same miles (either business or first class) you could fly from Shanghai to Hong Kong and then to Chicago on Cathay Pacific's 77W. Longer trip, but OMG - either business or first class on Cathay Pacific are... words fail.

 

If I can use my AAdvantage miles on Cathay Pacific, how would I go about booking? Thanks.

[6rugrats]

If I can use my AAdvantage miles on Cathay Pacific, how would I go about booking? Thanks.

Easiest way would be to call AA and see if there is any award availability.

[Gardyloo]

If I can use my AAdvantage miles on Cathay Pacific, how would I go about booking? Thanks.

 

Easiest way would be to call AA and see if there is any award availability.

Right, you can't see CX award space on AA's website (not yet anyway - they're promising more online partner award booking by and by, but... ?) If you want to sign up (free) for Cathay Pacific's FF program, AsiaMiles, you can look on their website and *usually* anything you see as available there will be bookable using AA miles, but you'll still have to phone AA to confirm availability and/or book it.

[bluesea777]

Remember AA is converting the 777's to new design (77W when booking flights and choosing seats) - we have had the experience in flying the new design - we hated them!!!

 

Before the econ class had seating 2-5-2, now it's 3-4-3 :eek:, seats AND aisles are narrower! To make things worse, when you recline your seat bottom moves forward as the back of seat reclines. No room for you to use laptop (let alone net book) or have a meal or drink when the person in front of you reclines.

 

As for the Business class - OMG - it's for BUSINESS people only to enjoy!!! If you are a couple travelling together (especially on honeymoon) and like to sit together, talk to each other, eat and click drinks, etc, FORGET booking business class! There is a CUPBOARD dividing between seats, meaning you will not see your loved one at all during the flight.

 

When we boarded the transatlantic long haul to walk thru the Business class to go to Economy we witnessed several couples/families standing up and looking so unhappy - one lady was in tears.

 

Later during the flight I had a chat with a steward ... I asked him WTH was AA thinking about when they changed the interior design of the 777 aircrafts? He said the crew also hate the new design - the aisles are too narrow for them - and they have had more than their share of angry travellers about the business class and the crampiness of the economy.

 

Just last year DH and I had enough miles and upgraded ourselves to Business Class and we had super flight. Sitting next to each other, talking, drinking, eating like lovebirds.

 

Being so loyal to AA, we're very unhappy and sad.

 

P.S. I have never seen the First Class, so can't tell you what it looks like now.

[FlyerTalker]

Before the econ class had seating 2-5-2, now it's 3-4-3 :eek:, seats AND aisles are narrower!

The natural result of leisure travelers buying solely on the basis of price and not value. Since the aircraft cross-section is only so big, more seats means smaller seats. If it takes 3-4-3 to make money at the market rate for leisure class tickets, then AA is just doing Econ 101. Thank your fellow travelers.

As for the Business class - OMG - it's for BUSINESS people only to enjoy!!! If you are a couple travelling together (especially on honeymoon) and like to sit together, talk to each other, eat and click drinks, etc, FORGET booking business class! There is a CUPBOARD dividing between seats, meaning you will not see your loved one at all during the flight.

Given that the VAST preponderance of business class tickets are for folks flying on....gasp!!....business, why shouldn't it be tailored to their needs. Or do you think that AA should have a "lovebird" section in business?

When we boarded the transatlantic long haul to walk thru the Business class to go to Economy we witnessed several couples/families standing up and looking so unhappy - one lady was in tears.

If they bought business tickets without knowing what they were purchasing, then I have little sympathy. And tears....really. Caveat Emptor. I'd rather have a first-rate hard product so that I can get some comfortable sleep. And Mrs FT is the same. So what if we aren't right next to each other. So don't get me started on the underpinnings behind that relationship of the crying lady.

 

Now, if I booked a suite at the Peninsula and got a closet with bunk beds, I might cry. But it's an airplane seat, FCS. And as you say, it's better than in the back of the bus.

Just last year DH and I had enough miles and upgraded ourselves to Business Class and we had super flight. Sitting next to each other, talking, drinking, eating like lovebirds.

You know...an evening out on the town has all of that, and you don't have to buy a ticket from AA.

 

Insensitive...nope. Just pragmatic. And if you take off the rose-colored glasses.....

[Zach1213]

Remember AA is converting the 777's to new design (77W when booking flights and choosing seats) - we have had the experience in flying the new design - we hated them!!!

 

Before the econ class had seating 2-5-2, now it's 3-4-3 :eek:, seats AND aisles are narrower! To make things worse, when you recline your seat bottom moves forward as the back of seat reclines. No room for you to use laptop (let alone net book) or have a meal or drink when the person in front of you reclines.

 

As for the Business class - OMG - it's for BUSINESS people only to enjoy!!! If you are a couple travelling together (especially on honeymoon) and like to sit together, talk to each other, eat and click drinks, etc, FORGET booking business class! There is a CUPBOARD dividing between seats, meaning you will not see your loved one at all during the flight.

 

When we boarded the transatlantic long haul to walk thru the Business class to go to Economy we witnessed several couples/families standing up and looking so unhappy - one lady was in tears.

 

Later during the flight I had a chat with a steward ... I asked him WTH was AA thinking about when they changed the interior design of the 777 aircrafts? He said the crew also hate the new design - the aisles are too narrow for them - and they have had more than their share of angry travellers about the business class and the crampiness of the economy.

 

Just last year DH and I had enough miles and upgraded ourselves to Business Class and we had super flight. Sitting next to each other, talking, drinking, eating like lovebirds.

 

Being so loyal to AA, we're very unhappy and sad.

 

P.S. I have never seen the First Class, so can't tell you what it looks like now.

 

 

I too am extremely loyal to AA - Executive Platinum for the last 5 years (and I've only been out of college for 7 or so). I love the new business class, and hate the new economy class.

 

As a business traveler, it's amazing to think AA now has the same hard product on their 777-300 as Cathay Pacific does. Sure, the soft product is still a bit different, but the hard product is the same. I never would have imagined that a few years ago! My wife and I have discussed traveling via AA or CX in those business class seats as a couple, and had no problem with it. Sure, we can't hold hands for 16 hours across the ocean, but we can get a better nights sleep than in the older seats. That's worth it to us. Besides, it's not that difficult to lean forward - I've done it many times in those seats. I can't imagine crying about it...that sounds like a whole different issue entirely. Talk about #FirstWorldProblems - my business class seat is too private.

 

The economy class changes are the wave of the future. Many airlines have done it already - AF, EK, NZ - and it will continue to happen. As mentioned above, consumers are getting what they demand - cheaper seats. It just takes a few minutes perusing the Cruise Air page to see that the number one concern of people is the "best deal", meaning price. And I get it, we all have money that we don't like spending. However, we can't demand the lowest price and the best product at the same time. It just can't happen. As long as the consumer demands the lowest price above all else (comfort, convenience, times, service), airlines will do what they can to actually make money, at least once in a while, off of flying said people.

 

People may run away from AA and take their "best deal" desires to other airlines, but they will follow - I give you both the George Foreman Guarantee and the Men's Wearhouse Guarantee on that. Unfortunately, the only thing I can say to people who don't like it is "Get Used To It".

[TMLAalum]

Appreciate all the comments/advice thus far.

 

Business with full reclining, separated seats should be fine for us because for the last decade we've been content with aisle-aisle economy! But unless it's a certainty for May 2014, we'll try for 1st as 1st choice. Seats should be released within the next few days.

 

From what I've gleaned about differences between AA & CP non-economy is that the seating is the same but the level of service is not- is this correct?

[Zach1213]

Appreciate all the comments/advice thus far.

 

Business with full reclining, separated seats should be fine for us because for the last decade we've been content with aisle-aisle economy! But unless it's a certainty for May 2014, we'll try for 1st as 1st choice. Seats should be released within the next few days.

 

From what I've gleaned about differences between AA & CP non-economy is that the seating is the same but the level of service is not- is this correct?

Cabins may indeed be fully changed by May 2014. I wasn't aware of that being a possibility, so I do stand corrected (perhaps) in my original statement. Though I am an AA frequent flier, I don't always stay up to date on their cabin renovations, though I really should.

 

In regards to the new 777 cabin for AA, yes - AA and CX have the same cabin setup and same seats. Having sat in both, they're equally comfortable. However, service and food are, in my opinion, quite superior on CX. I would choose CX over AA hands down, even if the price were slightly higher.

[ducklite]

The natural result of leisure travelers buying solely on the basis of price and not value. Since the aircraft cross-section is only so big, more seats means smaller seats. If it takes 3-4-3 to make money at the market rate for leisure class tickets, then AA is just doing Econ 101. Thank your fellow travelers.

Given that the VAST preponderance of business class tickets are for folks flying on....gasp!!....business, why shouldn't it be tailored to their needs. Or do you think that AA should have a "lovebird" section in business?

If they bought business tickets without knowing what they were purchasing, then I have little sympathy. And tears....really. Caveat Emptor. I'd rather have a first-rate hard product so that I can get some comfortable sleep. And Mrs FT is the same. So what if we aren't right next to each other. So don't get me started on the underpinnings behind that relationship of the crying lady.

 

Now, if I booked a suite at the Peninsula and got a closet with bunk beds, I might cry. But it's an airplane seat, FCS. And as you say, it's better than in the back of the bus.

You know...an evening out on the town has all of that, and you don't have to buy a ticket from AA.

 

Insensitive...nope. Just pragmatic. And if you take off the rose-colored glasses.....

 

Agree with this. You get on the plane, sit down, get fed something, have a couple drinks, and go to sleep for six hours. Does it really matter if you are next to each other or not? I'd rather have the comfortable bed so I can arrive well rested and enjoy my husband's company until a normal bedtime (instead of being exhausted at 5:00 pm) than a crappy sleep and be snarky with each other all day as a result.

[Gardyloo]

Cabins may indeed be fully changed by May 2014. I wasn't aware of that being a possibility, so I do stand corrected (perhaps) in my original statement.

I haven't seen any roll-out schedule for the 772 refits, except that initially the word from AA was that they wouldn't start re-doing the 772s until the "first quarter" of 2014. So I would be really surprised if they're done by May.

[Globaliser]

If they bought business tickets without knowing what they were purchasing, then I have little sympathy. And tears....really.

If the business class seats were different from the ones they expected, I could imagine some surprise.

 

But I find it hard to imagine anyone being disappointed by AA's new business class seats.

 

And most of all, I also cannot imagine anyone getting positively distressed about the fact that they might not be able to hold hands or easily see their travelling companion, who will still be only a matter of a foot or two away from them. If they are distressed to the point of tears, that really is a problem with the passenger, not the airline.

[Zach1213]

If the business class seats were different from the ones they expected, I could imagine some surprise.

 

But I find it hard to imagine anyone being disappointed by AA's new business class seats.

 

And most of all, I also cannot imagine anyone getting positively distressed about the fact that they might not be able to hold hands or easily see their travelling companion, who will still be only a matter of a foot or two away from them. If they are distressed to the point of tears, that really is a problem with the passenger, not the airline.

 

And it's definitely possible to hold hands in those seats...just not all that comfortably ;)

[TMLAalum]

The AA lowest ff tix were available this morning. Thanks to everyone's input to my original post, I made the decision to book 1st class at the 67.5k level based on the configuration of Biz seating according to American's seating chart for the flight showing as 2x3x2 and thus not the lay-flat of the newer 777s. DH and I were using our laptops simultaneously because we have separate Aadvantage accounts.

 

I did look into Cathay Pacific options but the flight times added up to 8 hours more total and arrival back home a day later.

[Gardyloo]

The AA lowest ff tix were available this morning. Thanks to everyone's input to my original post, I made the decision to book 1st class at the 67.5k level based on the configuration of Biz seating according to American's seating chart for the flight showing as 2x3x2 and thus not the lay-flat of the newer 777s. DH and I were using our laptops simultaneously because we have separate Aadvantage accounts.

 

I did look into Cathay Pacific options but the flight times added up to 8 hours more total and arrival back home a day later.

I think you'll be happy with the Flagship Suites.

[TMLAalum]

From my research it appears we will be able to use Cathay Pacific's first class lounge in PVG:)...

[jsmeeker]

Enjoy.

 

on the 777-200, they still have the old "NGBC" seat in Business. The First Class seat on those planes will be much better. As mentioned, the 777-200s don't reconfigured to a 2 class configuration until starting next year. Not sure how long it will take. Doubt they would all be done by May 2014. Note that I don't think they have showed the seat that will be on the 772. Supposedly, it supposed to be very, very similar to the new J seat on the 77W (i.e. 777-300). Also note that these planes will still be 772. They don't become a new aircraft type just because they change out the seats.

 

Since your choice was the F seat over the "NGBC" seat, I think you made a better choice. Sounds like you could easily afford the extra miles.