Silver Shadow Fails Sanitation Inspection After Caught Hiding Filthy Conditions from

[Paulchili]

Like a couple of other posters on this thread, I do not wish to appear to be an apologist for Silversea. However, it seems that some posters are being a bit premature in condemning SS for some actions which are merely allegations in that lawsuit. Perhaps I am reading much of this material, particularly the statements of former employees, with the bias of my former life as an in-house corporate lawyer; but it is often prudent to read those statements with a reasonable amount of skepticism. Similarly, the allegations in a civil complaint must be viewed with caution. One poster suggested that, "Where there's smoke..." Well, sometimes, where there's smoke, there is no fire; rather, there is just a load of exaggerated claims by a disgruntled former employee. Certainly, if any of Mr. Asenov's substantive claims are true, than SS has breached the trust of its employees, as well of that of its passengers. At this point, how can any of us on this board be confident that those claims have merit?

 

 

As pointed out above by Newlondon, I would not be surprised if this case is settled "out of court" without Silversea admitting any wrong-doing, as it so often happens in medical malpractice suits (to "limit the cost of litigation" for the insurance company and without admitting any guilt). How do we then decide who was right and who was wrong?

[Seafairer]

When this case finally gets settled, Silversea needs to come clean about how it handles "tips are included." How much of our fare is earmarked for tips? Does the money go into a shared crew fund? If so, is the money given directly to the crew, or just used to spruce up their quarters? Do all crew members receive the tip money? Or just the "upstairs" staff we routinely see (butlers, wait staff, etc.)? Are the tips distributed at the end of each cruise (one would hope), monthly, once per contract?

 

If it's true that tips aren't being distributed as advertised, isn't there a technical term for that? Like "fraud"?

[Merriem]

This whole thing and the attitude of this company is pathetic. They screwed up and if they were honest they would just admit it and fix their problems, make some effort for good will too the customers and move on. Instead they are difficult with their head in the sand. My TA called to cancel today, just 6 days after final payment was made. Some idiot said they would have to charge me 15%, now you are stuck with a mess, how many people do they want to make mad. This was their one last chance with after the Shadow cruise 2012... Now, they are reading this board because the rude employee at Silversea said she saw where I posted, so keep your comments coming. Hope they get wise before they go out of business.

[UKCruiseJeff]

When this case finally gets settled, Silversea needs to come clean about how it handles "tips are included." How much of our fare is earmarked for tips? Does the money go into a shared crew fund? If so, is the money given directly to the crew, or just used to spruce up their quarters? Do all crew members receive the tip money? Or just the "upstairs" staff we routinely see (butlers, wait staff, etc.)? Are the tips distributed at the end of each cruise (one would hope), monthly, once per contract?

 

If it's true that tips aren't being distributed as advertised, isn't there a technical term for that? Like "fraud"?

 

What would be very helpful is if someone with a current booking asks SS for specific clarification. Specifically:

 

1 My fare includes tipping. What amount or percentage of my fare is represented by the tip?

 

2. When and how is that tip distributed?

[Seafairer]

Your behind-the-scenes information is just fascinating, Kilroy. Thank you for sharing it with us.

 

Merriem, I'm very sorry about this new cancellation charge and hope your TA will be able to get it removed.

 

I didn't see what the Asenov lawsuit is asking in damages (other than in excess of $75,000), but you'd think it would be sensible of Silversea to pay Mr. Asenov and end the suit fast. USA Today picked up the story, who knows what's coming tomorrow, and there are already close to 8,000 hits on this thread. This has to be eroding revenue and new client potential. How much bloodletting are they prepared to stand?

[Merriem]

Your behind-the-scenes information is just fascinating, Kilroy. Thank you for sharing it with us.

 

Merriem, I'm very sorry about this new cancellation charge and hope your TA will be able to get it removed.

 

I didn't see what the Asenov lawsuit is asking in damages (other than in excess of $75,000), but you'd think it would be sensible of Silversea to pay Mr. Asenov and end the suit fast. USA Today picked up the story, who knows what's coming tomorrow, and there are already close to 8,000 hits on this thread. This has to be eroding revenue and new client potential. How much bloodletting are they prepared to stand?

 

Yes, they are not very smart at damage control. My TA is great, and you know I was looking forward to this trip. Kind of pathetic. We just came home from the Paul Gaugain yesterday, and we were so pleased with that ship. They did everything right! They should all be that way, and the luxury companies, should especially be the best. No excuses.

[harbormaster]

I disembarked the Shadow the week before this inspection. I am sick to my stomach reading this post. I can tell you that the food onboard my cruise was probably the worst I ever have experienced in many cruises on Silversea. i was told, in Alaska, mind you, that all the fish was frozen. Berries at breakfast were full of mold. That is just a small part of it.

Silversea needs to step up and address this issue.

I experienced another serious issue which I addressed to Silversea executive management. In return, I was given excuses and called by the wrong name by the President of the cruise line. My problem still has not been addressed.

The food on the cruise alone was enough to make me rethink another booking. But executive management's failure to address this, and other issues, is unforgiveable. My husband and I had been cheerleaders for Silversea in the past. I grieve for the wonderful crew who put so much of themselved in their jobs, only to be asked to compromise their standards.

Shame on Silversea.

[CruisinGerman]

but, on every cruise line in the world, by U.S., European and international health standards, all fish and seafood must be frozen -- that goes for sushi and everything similar as well. I think there is a very small exception to this when the item is purchased just a few hours prior in a reputable market and served to a very limited number of people, but I am not really sure of this part.

 

I am terribly disappointed in this whole incident. We have many many cruises on Silversea but I will never sail them again.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

 

P.S. I've been working all day and just to let you know it was NOT me who submitted this issue to USA Today.

[commodoredave]

but, on every cruise line in the world, by U.S., European and international health standards, all fish and seafood must be frozen -- that goes for sushi and everything similar as well. I think there is a very small exception to this when the item is purchased just a few hours prior in a reputable market and served to a very limited number of people, but I am not really sure of this part.

 

I am terribly disappointed in this whole incident. We have many many cruises on Silversea but I will never sail them again.

 

 

Kind regards,

 

Gunther and Uta

 

P.S. I've been working all day and just to let you know it was NOT me who submitted this issue to USA Today.

 

On Seabourn we have joined the executive chef on his trip to the local market to buy fresh foods including fish. In particular, I remember going with the chef in Atlantic Canada to buy fresh lobster.

[Avant42]

Unfortunately, I am not surprised. Our first Silversea cruise was December 2012 on the Shadow--our honeymoon. While our expectations about the crew/staff were met, we were very disappointed with the fact that we couldn't even use our toilet on numerous days. Silly explanations were given depending on the day. Unacceptable and obviously a systemic problem. Management wanted to just sweep this under the rug.

Doubt we'll ever do Silversea again :-(

[commodoredave]

I disembarked the Shadow the week before this inspection. I am sick to my stomach reading this post. I can tell you that the food onboard my cruise was probably the worst I ever have experienced in many cruises on Silversea. i was told, in Alaska, mind you, that all the fish was frozen. Berries at breakfast were full of mold. That is just a small part of it.

Silversea needs to step up and address this issue.

I experienced another serious issue which I addressed to Silversea executive management. In return, I was given excuses and called by the wrong name by the President of the cruise line. My problem still has not been addressed.

The food on the cruise alone was enough to make me rethink another booking. But executive management's failure to address this, and other issues, is unforgiveable. My husband and I had been cheerleaders for Silversea in the past. I grieve for the wonderful crew who put so much of themselved in their jobs, only to be asked to compromise their standards.

Shame on Silversea.

Thanks for your insights. I have today cancelled our SilverSea booking. It will be a very long time before we ever consider this cruise line again. Just too many other better options out there in the luxury category.

[freddie]

Commodoredave - Your post illustrates very well the foolishness of Silversea's failure to get in front of this debacle, rather than try to ignore it. SS has serious competition in its target market from Regent, Seabourn, Seadream, Crystal, and of late from Oceania and Azamara. When there are so many alternatives, it is quite understandable that many potential SS pax will decline to take the risk that these problems are systemic and will simply move to the competition.

[Rally]

On Seabourn we have joined the executive chef on his trip to the local market to buy fresh foods including fish. In particular, I remember going with the chef in Atlantic Canada to buy fresh lobster.

 

Yes, which was served within the next 24 hours or frozen.

[5waldos]

This is a very distressing thread. We are booked for a Galapagos trip in Feb. Although there are many other smaller ships, only Silversea and Celebrity sail in larger ships. Celebrity has just experienced a 45 day revocation of their Galapagos permit for having out of season lobster onboard, and I was patting myself on the back for having decided to go with Silversea. Now I am not so sure. Will follow this carefully although we would be terribly disappointed to have to cancel- it took a great deal of planning to get Amazon trip and train cruise and Galapagos sail all arranged with all the hotels set. Perhaps a note to our TA is next. And I did note that although this is a big yuck factor here, there does not seem to be any evidence of illness, which one would have anticipated. Odd.

[Kilroyshere]

but, on every cruise line in the world, by U.S., European and international health standards, all fish and seafood must be frozen -- that goes for sushi and everything similar as well. I think there is a very small exception to this when the item is purchased just a few hours prior in a reputable market and served to a very limited number of people, but I am not really sure of this part.

 

 

Seafood is a much riskier food in regards to food illness and handling.

 

Therefore, some U.S. municipalities require approved and inspected purveyors be the only source of seafood.

 

Larger retailers of fish and some chain restaurants likewise, prefer to use frozen fish from known and experienced handlers far away versus risking local fish from unknown or inexperienced in food handling sources.

 

I'm not aware of any frozen fish requirement in the U.S., other than salmon used for sushi...since the salmon parasite which can cause human brain damage is destroyed by freezing.

 

On the contrary, I know of many retail restaurants in the U.S. that take pride and advertise serving locally caught fresh fish.

 

Sushi served requires documentation of it's source and handling. These records must be kept on hand for a minimum of 6 months and shown upon demand of any health inspectors.

 

We too have accompanied Seabourn chefs to the Panama City and other public fish markets around the world for fresh caught fish, which was, as Rally stated, consumed over the next 24 hours.

 

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[Travelcat2]

Commodoredave - Your post illustrates very well the foolishness of Silversea's failure to get in front of this debacle, rather than try to ignore it. SS has serious competition in its target market from Regent, Seabourn, Seadream, Crystal, and of late from Oceania and Azamara. When there are so many alternatives, it is quite understandable that many potential SS pax will decline to take the risk that these problems are systemic and will simply move to the competition.

 

Seadream may no longer be competition to SS. If you check out one of their ship's most recent CDC rating, it is lower than SS - they failed big time! Many items that need to be corrected will not be corrected until dry dock in November, 2013.

[Rally]

Seadream may no longer be competition to SS. If you check out one of their ship's most recent CDC rating, it is lower than SS - they failed big time! Many items that need to be corrected will not be corrected until dry dock in November, 2013.

 

As I mentioned yesterday to someone who pointed out that Oceania wasn't on the "fail" list, neither was SilverSea until this week. Given SS's sterling record until this catastrophe, who can guarantee any line isn't next?

[Travelcat2]

As of tonight, the following ships scored under 85 points on the CDC list (plus some foreign carriers I did not list)

Celebrity Century – 78 points

Golden Princess – 81 points

Hapag Lloyd MS Columbus 2 – 69 points

Seadream II – 84 points

Silversea’s score and report still do not show up.

[chengkp75]

Seafood is a much riskier food in regards to food illness and handling.

 

Therefore, some U.S. municipalities require approved and inspected purveyors be the only source of seafood.

 

Larger retailers of fish and some chain restaurants likewise, prefer to use frozen fish from known and experienced handlers far away versus risking local fish from unknown or inexperienced in food handling sources.

 

I'm not aware of any frozen fish requirement in the U.S., other than salmon used for sushi...since the salmon parasite which can cause human brain damage is destroyed by freezing.

 

On the contrary, I know of many retail restaurants in the U.S. that take pride and advertise serving locally caught fresh fish.

 

Sushi served requires documentation of it's source and handling. These records must be kept on hand for a minimum of 6 months and shown upon demand of any health inspectors.

 

We too have accompanied Seabourn chefs to the Panama City and other public fish markets around the world for fresh caught fish, which was, as Rally stated, consumed over the next 24 hours.

 

___‹~›__‹(•¿•)›__‹~›___

 

CruisinGerman is correct. USPH requirements for fish that will be served in an uncooked state (sushi) must be received either frozen or with documentation that the supplier has frozen it.

 

I would also question the practice of going to a fish market to obtain fresh fish (while admittedly more flavorful and probably better for you), this could be a violation of USPH food receiving standards, if the fish is not received at 41*F and maintained at that temperature until cooked or frozen. I'm not saying that getting fresh fish is a bad thing, but it might violate USPH standards if not handled properly, and much of USPH regulations are about documentation.

 

As I've said, USPH regulations are far stricter than any state or local health code, and yet was promulgated by the cruise lines themselves, which shows a commitment to sanitation that very few restaurants or food services can match.

[Kilroyshere]

chengkp75;

 

Are you citing USPH (FDA) regs for cruise ships in regards to frozen fish?

 

Those regs are not local or state regs for land based restaurants, food service, etc.

 

As a matter of practicality, most cruise ships are provisioned once a week and often less frequently depending on itinerary.

 

It's only practical that most proteins (meats, fish, etc) are delivered frozen. Anyone whose been on an itinerary of 10 days or longer has seen fresh produce and fruit quality and availability diminish over the course of a cruise, while no such shortage happens with frozen protein.

 

FDA, CDC et al regs are not local codes stateside for land based restaurant operations (non FDA food plants). Each state has their own Dept of Health that govern and in fact, in many instances, local code is contrary to FDA and other Federal agency regs and guidelines.

 

I agree that ship sanitation and food regs are far stricter than land based operations and thus why I'm still shocked and somewhat skeptical of the photos posted that were allegedly taken aboard the SS ship in question here.

 

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[harbormaster]

CommodoreDave: We too have gone shopping with the chef on both Seabourn and Regent. In fact on our first Regent Alaska cruise, my husband caught four salmon which were certified and brought back to the ship and cooked for dinner by Chef Cornell.

 

I understand the ruling about frozen fish. However, after seeing this report, I am concerned about the manner in which the fish was thawed. It certainly was poorly prepared and overcooked when served and I am not the only person who felt this way. My tablemates commented on this as well.

On our first night, dinner was a galley buffet. We have always enjoyed these as the chef and crew always take pride in their creations and displays. I can only comment that the buffet looked tired, with wilting greens, limp shrimp, empty platters with some scraps on them, (and we were some of the first through the buffet line), and no sign of creative display. The dessert table had just a few items and the person plating (dishing) bananas foster in the dining room had no ice cream and told us we had to walk to the back of the galley if we wanted any. We thought perhaps it was a one-off night. People commented that it seemed like a line-up of leftovers.

Silversea, in the past, had food in the main dining room that we looked forward to enjoying. The menus were varied and interesting and food prepared perfectly. Menus now include a lot of stir-fry dishes, veal and rockfish.

We love the cabins and staff. Alaska was fabulous. But it is hard to support a line that does not respond to its customers and whose standards appear to have slipped if not plunged.

[Seafairer]

Just to support what was said above - a few years ago the Exec. Chef gave an interesting talk on food handling. He explained that Silversea only buys food in certain, reliable ports from approved vendors. (Same goes for water - they take it on in some ports but not others, even though the ship has a purification plant.) This was an autumn cruise and the Christmas turkeys were already in their freezers.

 

P.S. I hope you'll do a Member Review of your great Paul Gauguin cruise, Merriem. Some of us are starting to look at other small-ship options..

[commodoredave]

Seadream may no longer be competition to SS. If you check out one of their ship's most recent CDC rating, it is lower than SS - they failed big time! Many items that need to be corrected will not be corrected until dry dock in November, 2013.

As another posted said, just about any cruise line can have a bad inspection once in a blue moon. The issue with SS is trying to cover up bad practices. As for SD, we are sailing with them for the first time in December, so don't yet know if they are a serious competitor to SS. But the fact that we are even giving them a try means they are attracting luxury cruisers who could be sailing elsewhere -- thus they are still competition to SS.

[Keith1010]

As another posted said, just about any cruise line can have a bad inspection once in a blue moon. The issue with SS is trying to cover up bad practices. As for SD, we are sailing with them for the first time in December, so don't yet know if they are a serious competitor to SS. But the fact that we are even giving them a try means they are attracting luxury cruisers who could be sailing elsewhere -- thus they are still competition to SS.

 

I agree. The issue is less to do with the score but all of the allegations that resulted in the surprise inspection. If all of those photos are really true then that is a major problem.

 

Keith

[Merriem]

Just to support what was said above - a few years ago the Exec. Chef gave an interesting talk on food handling. He explained that Silversea only buys food in certain, reliable ports from approved vendors. (Same goes for water - they take it on in some ports but not others, even though the ship has a purification plant.) This was an autumn cruise and the Christmas turkeys were already in their freezers.

 

P.S. I hope you'll do a Member Review of your great Paul Gauguin cruise, Merriem. Some of us are starting to look at other small-ship options..

 

I will do a review , we just got home, but it was the best experience in about 35 cruises. Our previous most recent cruises were on Crystal, Seabourn , Regent, and of course the Silversea one. They did everything right, and we booked on board a 10 day in Sept 2014. We have not ever done that before, so I have to say we were pleased. The food was fantastic, and just the whole experience was the best. I am dreading the November Silversea cruise, and again I had paid a lot of money ..this time a silver suite. I do not trust them, and now for sure they really do not want me on one of their ships. I know that some ships will get a bad report, but for the $$$$$ they charge this is beyond rediculious. On the Shadow last year it was one thing after another. I think in 10 days, the sheets were changed once!