Silver Shadow Fails Sanitation Inspection After Caught Hiding Filthy Conditions from

[newlondon]

UK Jeff, I am still surprised you are focusing on the sanitation inspection. Imo the link you provided to the employee suit was far more damning in terms of the aura SS tries to create.

Why have you abandoned the discussion of withheld wages etc.?

[UKCruiseJeff]

UK Jeff, I am still surprised you are focusing on the sanitation inspection. Imo the link you provided to the employee suit was far more damning in terms of the aura SS tries to create.

Why have you abandoned the discussion of withheld wages etc.?

 

 

Hi, thanks for the interest.

 

It remains by far the most important issue to me. Much bigger than all the other stuff. But the general drift of the threads has moved away from me ..... :(

 

I hope this further clarifies.

 

We had temporarily abandoned SS a while ago largely because of the quality of food issue. I said temporarily because we'd travelled a lot with SS – including a few back to backs – decent suites - even using it as a moving office around Europe - and we would have returned if it had seemed to improve. It is an odd concern that most others will not understand but to over simplify we don't do the on-board restaurants and formal stuff since it went wobbly many years ago and I guess it's because we eat very well at home and when we travel and we had reconciled ourselves to a reasonably low quality. What others seemed to think was wonderful we felt way below par and our last few SS cruises the food was so dire we basically ate off-ship for all main meals and snacked whilst on board. Literally sandwiches and a DVD. But in our view that quality got even worst so it meant almost not eating at all on board. So we gave up and monitored it via others. So the hygiene factors from our point of view was almost irrelevant and simply a further point along that food issue line.

 

The integrity with respect to staff is by far the bigger issue from our point of view for three reasons. Firstly I feel strongly about the staff welfare issue for reasons stated earlier. Secondly and this is a big issue, once someone or some organisation shows itself capable of breaching fundamental trust – in my view it is all over. It is a permanent deal breaker. The only proviso is when mistakes are acknowledged as I also believe you don't forgive unless forgiveness has been sought. It hasn't so it's over!

 

Finally the integrity issue seems to be less of a concern to most other people on this thread and as I've made my thoughts clear most of the drift has gone towards food. In a way I don't mind them cheating me of decent food as much as I care about how they cheated me into believing they looked after their staff and took money to do so.

 

I'm not certain I have explained myself adequately but I hope you get the drift.

[Travelcat2]

UK Jeff, I am still surprised you are focusing on the sanitation inspection. Imo the link you provided to the employee suit was far more damning in terms of the aura SS tries to create.

Why have you abandoned the discussion of withheld wages etc.?

 

I know that you are not asking me...... but, IMO, these are separate issues and need separate threads. While having three threads (well, actually two related to the sanitation report) can be confusing, if the thread had a subject "Employee Lawsuit Against Silversea" (or something like that), the focus could be on those issues. I agree that the pay and alcohol allegations are important to talk about.

[bissel]

I agree that it would be better to have two separate threads. The employee situations are vitally important as well as the sanitation matters and merit its own thread. I do not believe people don't care about how the employees are paid and treated.

 

I agree Jeff, about fundamental trust being broken and hence no desire to sail on SS. There remain several other wonderful cruise lines and if one really doesn't have some deep, deep connection to SS, why book them?

 

If I were new to cruising and a travel agent pushed SS without revealing these issues, I'd be mighty angry with that agent!

[Seafairer]

A small correction to recent posts regarding Conde Nast Traveler and other magazines that publish annual "Best Cruise Ships" ratings. I believe these ratings are derived from subscriber surveys, not from editorial staff input. So the results are actually separate from any considerations of ad revenue, exchange programs, etc., from the publication.

 

Now that the media has picked up on the original CDC piece, their further searches on the topic will certainly pull up this CC thread and they'll quickly be aware of the other allegations - SS's treatment of their employees - that grieve so many of us here. They're probably reading our posts right now. ;) ;)

[UKCruiseJeff]

I agree Jeff, about fundamental trust being broken and hence no desire to sail on SS. There remain several other wonderful cruise lines and if one really doesn't have some deep, deep connection to SS, why book them?

 

If I were new to cruising and a travel agent pushed SS without revealing these issues, I'd be mighty angry with that agent!

 

Quite right.

 

We're shortly off for 16 days in Singapore. Lunch is rarely over $5 - every day extraordinary food in highly inspected and spotlessly clean kitchens with freshly prepared food to order - and we have yet to have any food that is below SS standard. And if we need a cruise - we'll take a bumboat.

 

Our problem - like many others - is that it seems we are where SS left us a few years ago. It's SS that have moved away from and abandoned us - not us from them.

 

C'est la vie.

[Seafairer]

Amen to that, Jeff. Some of us used to be thrilled with a Silversea experience that was always highly reliable (predictable, if you will). Since they started to change direction, we've found ourselves having to ask if this is still the kind of luxury cruise we wish to spend our money on. And, very sadly, it isn't.

 

I'm not sure what it is, but I feel that there's a link between Silversea's disregard of many of their loyal clients, their "disconnect" with their base (remember last year's useless holiday gift certificate?), their apparent lack of interest in simply replying to correspondence -- and their egregious attitude in this CDC situation. Almost as if we're not part of a universe that matters.

[mikedoes]

Quite right.

 

We're shortly off for 16 days in Singapore. Lunch is rarely over $5 - every day extraordinary food in highly inspected and spotlessly clean kitchens with freshly prepared food to order - and we have yet to have any food that is below SS standard. And if we need a cruise - we'll take a bumboat.

 

Our problem - like many others - is that it seems we are where SS left us a few years ago. It's SS that have moved away from and abandoned us - not us from them.

 

C'est la vie.

 

I've read several references to better days on SS. What was it like? How has it changed? New thread for this subject?

[chengkp75]

I am sorry that I do not see the occasion for so much alarm.

 

A score of 84 is of course very disappointing (although it is only two points below satisfactory) and must be corrected. Points can be taken off for very minor lapses. It is curious that a month after the reported inspection, the score is still not on the CDC website.

 

However, the photos included in the original article do not seem that outrageous.

 

The third photo -- meat presumably defrosting with a thermometer on the meat -- was clearly taken in the kitchen, not in a crew cabin. Note the flooring.

 

The second photo was clearly taken in a large refrigerator.

 

The first photo appears to show food stored in a crew hallway. I know that this is practice on other ships when there are very long cruises, with spotty provisioning, and inadequate space in the storeroom. I understand that crew might not like their corridors cluttered with food. However, I see no great health hazard in storing cans of cranberry sauce or sacks of flour or bottles of ketchup or tins of coffee -- all covered in shrink wrap -- in a corridor. It's not as if these items need refrigeration or will be contaminated.

 

The score of 84 -- if accurate, and I have no reason to doubt that it is -- is disappointing. However, I am not about to give full credence to the complaints of possibly disaffected staff who claim this or that without more evidence than their word.

 

The photos do not seem to bear out allegations that there is a dire problem with sanitation on the Shadow.

 

BTW: I do not work for Silversea! :)

 

Knowing the CDC/USPH as I do, the reason that the score has not been posted is that there is an ongoing investigation, or that the action plan initiated by Silverseas is not acceptable to the USPH.

 

I tend to take anything that Mr. Walker says with a very small grain of salt, and that he posts photos that do not bear out under examination is common. I personally don't doubt the score of 84, but I believe that the USPH is looking at multiple reinspections and a very detailed action plan, and detailed reports from Silverseas about past practices.

 

While you may not personally have any problem with dry stores being kept in crew passageways, it is a serious violation of the USPH program. One reason is that cardboard boxes tend to hide roaches, which is why no cardboard is allowed outside the provisions area into the galleys, so that pest control is localized.

 

Someone said he was okay with seeing one practice in daily operation, and a different one when the inspection is coming. He claims that the regulations are onerous. The USPH VSP (Vessel Sanitation Program) was designed BY THE CRUISE LINES THEMSELVES, so if it is onerous, they only have themselves to blame. The VSP regulations have virtually eliminated e coli and botulinism from the food onboard cruise ships. It does a pretty good job of controlling the #1 virus in the world, noro. So, for my part, I would rather see the USPH "way of life" so drummed into everyone onboard, from dishwasher to Captain, and unfortunately I can't include the passengers, that it becomes second nature, and the daily way to do business. I speak as one who has been trained by the USPH in the VSP, and has worked on cruise ships in a capacity to maintain equipment and enforce operational compliance with the VSP on a daily basis.

 

Is this "the kiss of death" for Silverseas? No. Will they be under the microscope of the USPH? Most definitely, and the inspections will take considerably longer, as all crew areas of the ship will be inspected.

 

Someone posted earlier, "are they only afraid of the US inspectors?" There is no other body in the world that regulates cruise ship sanitation like the USPH.

[Kilroyshere]

A small correction to recent posts regarding Conde Nast Traveler and other magazines that publish annual "Best Cruise Ships" ratings. I believe these ratings are derived from subscriber surveys, not from editorial staff input.

 

Yes, they are billed as 'Reader's Review' and based on 'Reader Polls.'

 

I once tried to vote on one of those...at the end of the poll were some personal questions about us, which included asking for names, home country/state, preferred cruise lines, days cruised each year, a verifiable e-mail address and so forth. It seemed the cruise line poll was as interested in cruise lines as much as they were about prospecting and profiling us for magazine subscriber names in which to further harvest for marketing and resale to related paying firms interested in a profile such as we might have.

 

Pardon my skepticism, but I wonder about the methodology they employ counting reader survey responses. For example; I suspect relatively few cruisers voted on the very small ships and operation Seadream runs versus the much larger ships and operations of Celebrity in their 'Superstar Platinum Circle of Cruise Lines?' Yet both are somehow rated in those polls.

 

Ya think cruise line advertising revs might figure at all into reader poll methodology at all?

 

Being in the foodie biz, we see local city magazines conduct Reader Polls for the 'Best Of' awards. You've seen the award plaques proudly displayed in restaurants who were awarded such praises (those plaques are a totally different industry that work with the publications to reprint and sell them...if your biz is ever named as a winner, you're bombarded by companies who produce and sell those and they aren't cheap)...I've a slew of em. I'm certain they too, often employ advertising revs as part of their poll results methodology.

 

Just my opinion...and worth every cent ya paid for it.

 

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[freddie]

I, too, think that the failed inspection and the deceptive practices apparently associated with it should be addressed in a thread separate from that of the alleged mistreatment by Silversea of the former bartender who has sued SS.

 

Like a couple of other posters on this thread, I do not wish to appear to be an apologist for Silversea. However, it seems that some posters are being a bit premature in condemning SS for some actions which are merely allegations in that lawsuit. Perhaps I am reading much of this material, particularly the statements of former employees, with the bias of my former life as an in-house corporate lawyer; but it is often prudent to read those statements with a reasonable amount of skepticism. Similarly, the allegations in a civil complaint must be viewed with caution. One poster suggested that, "Where there's smoke..." Well, sometimes, where there's smoke, there is no fire; rather, there is just a load of exaggerated claims by a disgruntled former employee. Certainly, if any of Mr. Asenov's substantive claims are true, than SS has breached the trust of its employees, as well of that of its passengers. At this point, how can any of us on this board be confident that those claims have merit?

 

If one has had the occasion to read many civil complaints, one has read both sober and sincere statements of fact and extravagantly wild nonsense, along with the spectrum between those poles of truth.

 

As for the matter of topping off bottled water with tap water, I have not read that the VSP inspection addressed that issue one way or the other. Perhaps I missed that information. Rather, there was a statement regarding such unpleasant water mischief in Jim Walker's blog about the Silver Shadow inspection: "One former crew member stated that the crew on the Silver Shadow were forced to use tap water to top off expensive bottled water." Walker seems to be referring to a comment that was made in response to his own previous blog in December about sanitation inspections. In that comment, someone who identified him/herself as "Former Silversea Crew" wrote that "...they top up bottles of empty San pellegrino water with culligan water as they aren't aloud to go over budget, even if the ship is full." That single comment is not a lot on which to start torching SS's reputation, much less to toss in incendiary speculation regarding the serving of unfinished liquor from passenger cabins to other passengers.

 

I agree that SS has not helped itself in the inspection mess by its initial silence, followed by the useless corporate-speak statement.

 

(And before you ask, Jeff, I was not an in-house shark for a cruise line and have no particular allegiance to SS or any other line. ;) )

[wripro]

In cruising, as in politics, it's not the crime but the coverup that hurts.

[Josette03]

I agree there should be two separate threads and I think we might tone down the handwringing a bit regarding the issue of treatment and payment of employees until we have more information on that matter. From what I’ve read, there are allegations made by a disgruntled former employee that have yet to be adjudicated. So we don’t know all the facts.

We do know more about the other matter and that is that the Silver Shadow got a failing score of 84. The CDC and Silversea have confirmed this. We have not seen the specific CDC report because it hasn’t yet been posted yet.

I do think Silversea has poorly managed handling the news of the failing sanitation score. The press release they handed out the other day went to who? Anybody on this forum receive a letter or email? I haven’t received anything my inbox or mailbox from Silversea regarding this issue. The CDC inspection occured on June 17. They've had over a month now to send me a letter of contrition, explaining what happened and assuring me that maintaining the trust, loyalty and well being of a frequent Silversea customer (100+ days) like myself is uppermost in their minds. Too late to cancel my cruise next month but I’ll likely cancel the one I have in 2014.

[Kilroyshere]

I am sorry that I do not see the occasion for so much alarm.

 

A score of 84 is of course very disappointing (although it is only two points below satisfactory) and must be corrected. Points can be taken off for very minor lapses. It is curious that a month after the reported inspection, the score is still not on the CDC website.

 

However, the photos included in the original article do not seem that outrageous.

 

 

 

Oh my...if I may:

 

 

 

The third photo -- meat presumably defrosting with a thermometer on the meat -- was clearly taken in the kitchen, not in a crew cabin. Note the flooring.

 

That thermometer reads 80 degrees (f) and the meat is exposed to air.

 

That's not how meat is defrosted nor is it safe or acceptable. Frozen meat is properly and required to be defrosted over several days having been taken from the freezer to the meat cooler and kept there covered, dated and labeled till defrosted for use within a specified time.

 

That meat picture is an open invitation to spread pathogens, bacteria and virus that will make you very sick.

 

Meat has to be kept under 40 degrees (f) till cooked and is only allowed to be above that 40 degree limit for no more than 20 minutes from prep time to being put into an oven or on high heat.

 

The meat looks to be pork which has a required internal cooked temp of 160 (f) before being considered safe to consume.

 

The opportunity in a kitchen for cross contamination of open, warm meat like that to perhaps fruits or veggies that might be consumed uncooked is huge. That meat pic by itself is disgusting and dangerous.

 

The picture of the cart with a possible raw salmon on the bottom, some deserts on the middle shelf next to cured meats and mystery food on top...all exposed to air, uncovered and un-refrigerated is a norovirus outbreak waiting to happen.

 

 

 

 

The first photo appears to show food stored in a crew hallway. I know that this is practice on other ships when there are very long cruises, with spotty provisioning, and inadequate space in the storeroom. I understand that crew might not like their corridors cluttered with food. However, I see no great health hazard in storing cans of cranberry sauce or sacks of flour or bottles of ketchup or tins of coffee -- all covered in shrink wrap -- in a corridor. It's not as if these items need refrigeration or will be contaminated.

 

 

 

Yes, they will be contaminated.

 

Kitchens and related pantries, coolers, freezers ought not be exposed to the kindsa bacteria, virus and pathogens that passing persons in regular or work clothes carry and get onto and into that cart. That's why kitchen personnel wear 'whites' and often change cook's shirts/chef jackets/aprons several times a day. To keep cross contamination risk outta the equation.

 

After handling bloody meat, a properly trained line cook will know their apron and clothes may be contaminated and will change before handling your raw fruit desert. Any line cook knows prep surfaces, knives, containers, utensils, carts, etc all need to be cleaned and sanitized after each food material is changed.

 

Dry goods need to be segregated from wet and kept separate from canned or boxed goods. The outside of a #10 can or bottle is not sanitary, despite the unopened contents being so. Care needs to be taken where these pantry items are kept and how they are handled.

 

Care needs to be taken with glass containers. A broken glass bottle of condiment too close to other foods, could end up with a customer consuming a piece of glass. Those carts are just all sorts of bad food accidents waiting to happen.

 

Dunnage racking keeps foods off floors and there are minimum standards as to distance from floor, how they are kept clean underneath when stores are above...ya just can't store food anywhere, like a wheel cart.

 

The floor of a kitchen has to be held to a much higher sanitation standard than a hallway or living area. Commercial kitchen floors are required to have cove moldings and be made of non-porous materials so that industrial strength anti-bacterial cleaners and/or steam can be used to bring them to cleanliness, accessibility, safety and drying standards no hallway or living space could be.

 

Those carts pictured are rolled from the much dirtier hallways and living spaces, into the kitchen and thus contaminating the food prep areas and posing a great health risk.

 

Those pictures are shocking, disgusting and IMO, are 3rd world sanitation standard scary.

 

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[Travelcat2]

I am not certain that the CDC report will answer the question as to whether these issues are fleet wide or are specific to the Shadow. If employee reports prompted the CDC to do a true "surprise" inspection, I would tend to believe their other allegations (assuming that when there is smoke there is fire).

 

I've been reading several CDC reports and am looking forward to the specificity that will be contained in that report that will apparently be out "soon".

[Keith1010]

The CDC report is only specific to the one inspection. That is it.

 

Time will allow the facts to come out. If the photos are true the facts will come out on that. And if they are not, then the facts will come out as well. But one way or the other this story will not go away.

 

Keith

[Seafairer]

Kilroy and Chengkp75, your detailed posts are clear, valuable, professional reminders that the onboard sanitation issue has nothing to do with what "we" consider acceptable practices in everyday life. The CDC standards are law, and they're set to a high bar for a reason: to prevent potentially serious or deadly illness and infestation of vermin. Period. We can do what we want in our own homes, but there's no shipboard gray area that's left to individual interpretation. Nor should there be.

 

And although this is the first time Silversea had a failing score, it's important to remember that the ship apparently had plenty of inside notice for earlier "surprise" inspections that resulted in a strong record of high scores. I can't help but feel that my trust has been eroded by this practice. Maybe they would have passed with flying colors even without the tip-off. I certainly hope so. But who knows?

[Silver Spectre]

Interesting that the story does not seem to have made the Travel trade press in the UK. Perhaps our TA's are a bit slow on the uptake.

[chengkp75]

Kilroy and Chengkp75, your detailed posts are clear, valuable, professional reminders that the onboard sanitation issue has nothing to do with what "we" consider acceptable practices in everyday life. The CDC standards are law, and they're set to a high bar for a reason: to prevent potentially serious or deadly illness and infestation of vermin. Period. We can do what we want in our own homes, but there's no shipboard gray area that's left to individual interpretation. Nor should there be.

 

And although this is the first time Silversea had a failing score, it's important to remember that the ship apparently had plenty of inside notice for earlier "surprise" inspections that resulted in a strong record of high scores. I can't help but feel that my trust has been eroded by this practice. Maybe they would have passed with flying colors even without the tip-off. I certainly hope so. But who knows?

 

Many of the USPH inspectors are former NYC health inspectors, and they will admit that the VSP program goes further than any state or local health ordinance.

 

I suspect that the gap in the Shadow's inspection timeline was because she was homeported overseas. One poster mentioned a cruise from Japan, was this a repo? If that is the case, some lines tend to forget about USPH regulations if they are not calling on US ports, and then they know that when the first US port is upcoming that USPH will be around. Every USPH inspection I've had has been unannounced. Now, when they are seen in their khaki uniforms on the dock, a code message will go out on the PA to alert us, but at that time there is little that can be corrected or hidden.

 

Another thread is covering some suspected problems on another Silversea ship, I need to get over to that one to see what is up.

[ijkh]

Interesting that the story does not seem to have made the Travel trade press in the UK. Perhaps our TA's are a bit slow on the uptake.

 

 

Plese note this also has not even made Cruise Critic's own News section. Hmmm?

[newlondon]

UKJeff and Freddie, I agree that the suit has not been adjudicated, and Freddie as a former corporate lawyer you know the employee will probably be bought off with a sealed record and no admission of wrongdoing. Why am I cynical?:rolleyes:

The point in my mind is the suit was filed. Yes there are frivolous suits; but imo this one passes the smell test.

It may be difficult to ever find out what the resolution is but I'm continuing on "all included" lines to reward those employees who serve above and beyond with cash in their hands.

[Rally]

Plese note this also has not even made Cruise Critic's own News section. Hmmm?

 

It is there, after headlines about Capt. schittino.

[Seafairer]

Ijkh, I think you'll find the Silversea story on CC's "News" page, on the left side. It went up yesterday.

 

And, just so another red flag isn't raised unnecessarily, the other SS thread ("Sanitation problems on the Whisper") thankfully doesn't deal with more suspected problems. It's really just a discussion of passengers not washing their hands or using sanitizers when onboard. The title is a little misleading.

[UKCruiseJeff]

Like a couple of other posters on this thread, I do not wish to appear to be an apologist for Silversea. However, it seems that some posters are being a bit premature in condemning SS for some actions which are merely allegations in that lawsuit.

 

It might be helpful to refresh memories about the document lodged. The court documents included amongst other evidentiary documents:

 

1. Pay sheets

2. The emplyees own records of the hours worked as required by SS Management

3. The timings and lengths of shifts that SS had actually scheduled and were covered by him which largely agreed with the employees records as being greater than the hours paid

 

Assuming they were not forgeries - which seems most unlikely - then the documents would pretty clearly show that the hours he was paid for was different from both the published worked rota and his actual log of the hours worked. Addditionally, in the sections referring to earnings which spelt out both salary and overtime rates there was also no mention of tips being passed on to staff that had been collected from passengers in their fares expressly for staff. SS maintains that tips are specifcially "included". "Included" has a very clear meaning.

 

The court documents also included a written reprimand for failing to follow instructions to serve a customer either a prosecco and/or champagne blend.

 

I said clearly in my post that these were at this stage allegations. I also said clearly that it was my personal view that the allegations seemed to me to be entirely credible. Obviously everyone who wishes to not conclude an opinion yet is entirely free to do so.

[Kilroyshere]

I'm still shocked by the pictures of open, raw food in hallways...and can only hope it was an isolated instance of sabotage by disgruntled employee(s).

 

Those photos look like a Food Handlers License continuing education class quiz: Find 50 violations of food safety regs.

 

What's further shocking is; this was discovered in a U.S. port.

 

EVERY cruise ship manager to the Captain knows that of all nations to be on your toes, ya better be on your toes entering U.S. ports.

 

In smaller country ports, the official delegation boards, looks at the visas, takes port fees etc and enjoys a nice breakfast compliments of the Captain.

 

In U.S. ports, the officials come aboard in numbers and from multi-agencies with a multitude of official agendas, none the least is food safety. And they are all business.

 

It's U.S. Department of Health, CDC and other U.S. agencies that set the standard which worldwide cruise ship sanitation and galley standards are set. Equipment in the galley is mostly U.S. or at least, U.S. NSF graded which is the minimum for U.S. food operations...if you wish to operate outta U.S. ports.

 

Many of us have taken the galley tours. I for one, take those tours with mixed feelings. That many people in a clean galley, introduces a lot of risks when they touch surfaces, wearing shoes that have been everywhere and their body and breath giving off moisture that carries bio hazards that our bodies carry being introduced into a clean galley.

 

And when I go on galley tours coming from the foodie biz, I'm usually impressed by the extreme levels of excellent sanitation regime they employ. Proper segregation of raw foods from cold, constant temperature monitoring, anti-bacterial surfaces, gloved food handlers, labeling and dating of everything.

 

I've always seen the galley's HACCP (Hazard analysis and critical control points) books. A HACCP plan is systematic and controlled approach to food safety that employs specific steps, monitoring, record keeping and controls to ensure food is safe. It's required by FDA, CDC, USDA, DOH and most state agencies for larger food operations. Every cruise ship I've been on in the past decade employs a HACCP plan.

 

Cruise ship galleys have segregated walk in coolers/freezer so that produce is not in the same locker as would be raw meats or other items requiring cooking. In the dish rooms, first class industrial dishwashers boost water to 180 degrees (f) and have quaternary disinfectant back-up. It's usually impressive and thus why these pics are so difficult to believe they are real.

 

Of all ports to go slacker in, ya just don't do that in a U.S. port...how did this happen if in fact it did?

 

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