Noordam: Broken Toilet, Cold Showers, and a missed port to save money!

[arzz]

So sorry about your shower and toilet issues. Toilet issues can be fairly common but should not continue day after day, but the hot water -- absolutely inexcusable -- especially if the reason given is too many folks are using the water. If that is the case why did they add the extra cabins if the basic infrastructure could not even accommodate?

 

I understand your fury over all of the issues but to be honest regardless of what you are hearing, only the captain and bridge crew really know for certain what the wind and sea current conditions are in relationship to a large vessel like the Noordam as opposed to smaller yachts -- and only they know the real truth about why the port was missed. You will probably never know.

 

Unfortunately this all adds up to a truly unacceptable situation.

 

We had one occasion on HAL with a cabin that was determined to be "uninhabitable" and we were moved to the only available cabin on the ship -- a cabin that was, in reality, a downgrade but it was habitable. That made us happy. We were given a plate of sweets and a Pinnacle dinner immediately -- and a generous surprise OBC that we were not informed about until the day before disembarkation. It is possible that there will be some compensation yet to come.

 

For a variety of reasons it has been about a year and a half since we have been on HAL. We sincerely hope that when we return we will still find what has made this cruise line so special to us in the past. Stories like this really give us pause.

[lvz2cruz]

We sailed Noordam in June with high expectations after positive comments here.

We enjoyed our cruise but the Noordam experience was not up to par with Zaandam, Veendam, or Eurodam.

 

The day we boarded, June 8, we were advised Tunisia was cancelled and we went to Sardinia instead. I would have expected future stops there to be cancelled as well for the next couple months. They put together shore excursions and we had a great day.

 

We received a letter early on that hot water would be off from 11 pm till about 5 am for 3 nights. Before 10 the first night it was already off. We planned our usage around their schedule but sadly they didn't. It happened again about a week later with 3 nights scheduled. I went to take a shower for formal night at 5 pm and no hot water. Our daughter in another cabin and I ended up at the gym showers because she did not have any either. Really--formal night you need a hot shower and getting ready in your cabin is appreciated.

The shampoo, conditioner, and body wash were watered down and very very runny.

I remember the ice machine nearest the inside pool was broken the entire cruise. There was a big tray of cubes with a scoop. Coming off a long code red, this was not very sanitary--not even without recent noro.

Very often all lights were flashing that drinks were empty. There were the same amount of staff we usually see at the drink stations, so I didn't blame it on cutbacks.

We felt service in the MDR was prompt and very friendly. There were times we wondered as we checked in why other people there were told would be a wait when there were many empty tables.

There were only 3 production shows on the 11 night cruise and not a lot to do.

 

I am not excited about our upcoming Noordam cruise and have been looking at other options. Too bad our beloved Eurodam is in drydock.

[cruisemom42]

We also cancelled Tunisia due to a State Dept warning. Well, we got that e-mail a week ago. Now we find out that HAL has known about this for two months and the warning was given in March. Guess they had our final payment and didn't want to lose our revenue if we cancelled (I wouldn't have). But you can see, I'm not too trusting at the moment.

 

I share your puzzlement re: Tunisia. You guys received notification of it being cancelled before the recent assassination, so we know it was not triggered by that event. And as you point out, there was no new travel advisory since March....so why cancel (or alert you to the cancellation) when they did? Tis a mystery.

 

I would point out that several countries have travel advisories and yet cruise ships go there on a more or less routine basis -- Israel springs to mind.

 

At any rate: did they substitute another port for your Tunisia stop, at least?

[sapper1]

With all due respect, you are not on this cruise and do not know what we have been told. The reason was given that it was a financial decision due to the port charges. Initially, yes, it was the storm and it lasted 10 minutes. All they had to due was wait it out for about an hour. However, there was no effort to do that and it turned out to be a beautiful day in Monaco. We sat a few miles away for a few hours. The seas and winds were calm and it was a bright blue sky. It is the bottom line, pure and simple. No apologies are needed for the captain. He couldn't even be the one to tell us what is going on. I call it bs when it is bs. I totally agree about the Concordia captain. These are two different subjects. They are now refunding the port charges and we get a wonderful glass of wine!

 

If, faced with the forecast, there was a possibility of only being able to dock for a short period, of course the financial aspect would come into play. The ship might have had to pull out on short notice, stranding passengers. That gets expensive.

 

Somehow, I don't think you live in a seaport.

 

There is still no excuse for calling a professional captain an idiot in public.

[Cruising-along]

I'm so sorry, this sounds horrendous. A toilet that doesn't work and no hot water would make me hopping mad. :mad: I sincerely hope that things get better for you.

 

Our most wild tender ride anywhere was in Monte Carlo.....we did get to go, but it was touch and go whether or not we'd be able to tender there. In our case it was high winds. I'm very sorry you missed that port!

[whogo]

Drat! I was considering a Noordam cruise, didn't know they had added cabins to the ship. I can stand a cold shower, but DW will not take a cold bath. Long lasting toilet issues are inexcusable. When I want bad toilets I will travel in undeveloped countries.

 

In 1995 the Regent Star cruise director presented some bogus reason for skipping the Panama Canal. We knew he was lying, he knew he was lying, and with the ensuing passenger uproar the Panama Canal was reinstated. I do not know whether your captain did the prudent thing or was just saving money. He may come up with a plausible excuse in future announcements. Do not bother questioning the captain's judgement, you won't get anywhere. His claim of safety, true or not, trumps all.

 

Sorry about the problems, jmkennet. Write letters to the hotel manager, detail the problems, ask for what you want, keep copies of the correspondence, don't accept future cruise credits, and don't get kicked off the ship. Good luck with the rest of the cruise.

[Orsino]

For some reason I've always thought that when a cruise cancels a port, they return the port fees to the passengers. Does that apply to this case with Monaco? Or am I completely crazy?

[Cruising-along]

For some reason I've always thought that when a cruise cancels a port, they return the port fees to the passengers. Does that apply to this case with Monaco? Or am I completely crazy?

 

You aren't crazy. In post 22 OP states that the port fees are being refunded.

[Krazy Kruizers]

With all due respect, you are not on this cruise and do not know what we have been told. The reason was given that it was a financial decision due to the port charges. Initially, yes, it was the storm and it lasted 10 minutes. All they had to due was wait it out for about an hour. However, there was no effort to do that and it turned out to be a beautiful day in Monaco. We sat a few miles away for a few hours. The seas and winds were calm and it was a bright blue sky. It is the bottom line, pure and simple. No apologies are needed for the captain. He couldn't even be the one to tell us what is going on. I call it bs when it is bs. I totally agree about the Concordia captain. These are two different subjects. They are now refunding the port charges and we get a wonderful glass of wine!

 

I am glad to hear that you all are going to get your port charges refunded.

[jmkennett]

It's around 6:45 PM and it's off to a public restroom! Toilet worked earlier, doesn't work now. No hot water either. Who knows if we'll dock in Livorno tomorrow. Anything more than a little breeze and two foot sea, makes me have my doubts.

 

Please understand, we are having a great time and I will not let this ruin it. However, HAL is going to have to do a lot to get me back on one of their ships. The food has been great and the Indonesian crew couldn't be nicer, but there is no excuse for the things that have happened.

[jmkennett]

Sorry to hear you're not having a good experience onboard the Noordam.

 

I am sailing on the Noordam in two weeks and it seems like it won't be as I have been expecting, my last cruise on the Eurodam was truly magnificent and I fell in love with HAL (food, service, everything). I hope they sort out these problems before I get onboard, sorry to hear you're having a bad experience, try to enjoy the cruise. In my opinion, if they have not changed your room, it might be because the cruise is fully booked, if not I do not understeand that being a 3 star Mariner and having two big problems in your stateroom apart from missing a unique port like Montecarlo, they have not upgraded you to a stateroom of a higher category or they have not given you onboard credit for a future cruise or for this one.

 

An other thing, I will be on the recently added VA stateroom (10019) in the Observation Deck (in the same deck as the Crow's Nest), I have not been able to find any information about this stateroom, do you know if the balcony is bigger or smaller than a standard verandah, is the location there fine?

 

I believe they are normal size, but will check. They stick out over the windows below, so I think it is a regular 4-5 feet in depth.

[OlsSalt]

I always assumed delay-flush was a consequence of having to convert to low-flow enviro toilets. We laughed at its eccentricities when it happened to us on one of the HAL ships - can't remember which one.

 

Never saw it as a problem however; just a quirk that probably HAL was forced to install them like other problematic low-flow toilets stateside too. We did not conclude this was happening because of poor maintenance, but rather because of the new mandated enviro requirements. I am sure HAL would rather not have them too. Too bad passengers continue to misuse them disposing items that don't belong as reported with the wet-wipes issue.

 

The statement was made by the OP there was only cold water "throughout the entire cruise". :confused: Was this statement made in frustration or in fact?

[FredT]

I've been following this thread with interest, and finally decided to throw my two cents in. Unlike many around here I am not a HAL cheerleader, but more of a cruise cheerleader. We schedule our trips based solely on itinerary, not cruise line.

 

Having said THAT, most of the "issues" I have heard thrown out here are things I have seen on many cruise lines, from the fanciest Crystal down to the mass markets like MSC. Over the past 20 years food EVERYWHERE has been declining, service declining, and corners cut. (We finally asked for a new table on a recent Celebrity cruise because we got so sick and tired of our tablemates bitching about the decline in EVERYTHING)

 

As far as Monaco goes, we once missed a port on a Cunard cruise for very similar reasons. I had a chance to ask the captain about it later in the cruise, and the answer he gave was similar to here. He stated that although the harbor was fine as we arrived, winds were forecast to pick up, and that particular harbor was so tight that if that happened they would have to leave IMMEDIATELY, thus forcing them to leave anyone still on shore. (And THAT he said in his best british brogue, would be a proper mess!)

 

Its only the toilet issue that I sympathize with, and even that is an issue you will see brought up on just about EVERY cruise line's board here on cruise critic.

 

Glad to see you are still enjoying your cruise though, and hope things get better on the "potty" front.

[OlsSalt]

Sometimes it is the undercurrents in the water during storm periods, that you can't even see or low water levels that determine the ability of a ship to make a port, be able to use tenders if necessary, or arrive or depart before its previously posted schedules. It is not just the weather you see outside on deck that affects these decisions.

 

A concern now that ships want to look more and more like land-based resorts instead of ocean going vessels, is the expectations of passengers who will not appreciate the vagaries and challenges ship travel still requires.

[OVgirl]

jmkennett, what is your cabin number? For those who are on future Noordam cruises.

[Swice]

I am not even remotely trying to make excuses... I would not want to deal with toilet problems.

 

But I will relay: A couple of weeks ago we were on the Veendam. Our captain, (I don't have my paperwork with me to look up his name), was probably the best we've come across with making announcements. It was obvious he called a spade a spade, but at the same time, he displayed a dry sense of humor.

 

Anyway, on multiple announcements he went into details about toilets... telling us some parts of the ship lost service for 15 or 20-minutes because of what passengers put "in" the toilets. He was very nice about it, but he was also very clear. I suspect HAL personnel get so tired of dealing with clogged systems because of items passengers throw down the hole.

[sppunk]

The problem here is the lack of care shown by upper level staff. We experienced this on Veendam when our room flooded. You never get an answer or a chance to speak to anyone other than a gatekeeper.

 

Problems happen, but for staff to ignore, lie and blame others is another thing entirely. I feel for the OP and would feel exactly as they do. We are prepared for our upcoming Eurodam cruise to be our last, given the Veendam and our last Xuiderdsm experiences with staff/officers.

[sapper1]

I am not even remotely trying to make excuses... I would not want to deal with toilet problems.

 

But I will relay: A couple of weeks ago we were on the Veendam. Our captain, (I don't have my paperwork with me to look up his name), was probably the best we've come across with making announcements. It was obvious he called a spade a spade, but at the same time, he displayed a dry sense of humor.

 

Anyway, on multiple announcements he went into details about toilets... telling us some parts of the ship lost service for 15 or 20-minutes because of what passengers put "in" the toilets. He was very nice about it, but he was also very clear. I suspect HAL personnel get so tired of dealing with clogged systems because of items passengers throw down the hole.

 

That is true but unfortunately everybody on the line suffers when one person tosses something they shouldn't. It is not only the guilty party that goes without a flushing toilet. It is so frustrating when you are being so careful yourself.

I can certainly relate to the OP's toilet issues. It is not a fun situation.

[PathfinderEss]

Sorry to hear about your problems on the Noordam. Don't blame you a bit for how you feel, I think I would be complaining even more then you. Toilets not working and no hot water wow, unacceptable!:(

[shrimp56]

I am not even remotely trying to make excuses... I would not want to deal with toilet problems.

 

But I will relay: A couple of weeks ago we were on the Veendam. Our captain, (I don't have my paperwork with me to look up his name), was probably the best we've come across with making announcements. It was obvious he called a spade a spade, but at the same time, he displayed a dry sense of humor.

 

Anyway, on multiple announcements he went into details about toilets... telling us some parts of the ship lost service for 15 or 20-minutes because of what passengers put "in" the toilets. He was very nice about it, but he was also very clear. I suspect HAL personnel get so tired of dealing with clogged systems because of items passengers throw down the hole.

 

That would be Captain Peter Bos. He is a total rock star. He also is a Purell fiend and touted the features of the new hand-washing machines in the Lido.

[cruisetrail]

I've been following this thread with interest, and finally decided to throw my two cents in. Unlike many around here I am not a HAL cheerleader, but more of a cruise cheerleader. We schedule our trips based solely on itinerary, not cruise line.

 

Having said THAT, most of the "issues" I have heard thrown out here are things I have seen on many cruise lines, from the fanciest Crystal down to the mass markets like MSC. Over the past 20 years food EVERYWHERE has been declining, service declining, and corners cut. (We finally asked for a new table on a recent Celebrity cruise because we got so sick and tired of our tablemates bitching about the decline in EVERYTHING)

 

As far as Monaco goes, we once missed a port on a Cunard cruise for very similar reasons. I had a chance to ask the captain about it later in the cruise, and the answer he gave was similar to here. He stated that although the harbor was fine as we arrived, winds were forecast to pick up, and that particular harbor was so tight that if that happened they would have to leave IMMEDIATELY, thus forcing them to leave anyone still on shore. (And THAT he said in his best british brogue, would be a proper mess!)

 

Its only the toilet issue that I sympathize with, and even that is an issue you will see brought up on just about EVERY cruise line's board here on cruise critic.

 

Glad to see you are still enjoying your cruise though, and hope things get better on the "potty" front.

 

Good post.

 

We schedule our cruises based on cruise ships (not cruise lines!) and partially on itineraries.

It's a too broad generalization to say "we love HAL (or any other cruise line)" or "we'll never cruise on HAL (or any other cruise line) again".

 

BTW there is an interesting thread somewhere here - like "What HAL is your HA?L".

So...

1. "My HAL" starts from the Eurodam and ends with the Nieuw Amsterdam - two absolutely beautiful cruise ships - best afloat after Cunarders.

A perfect (or best available) combination of class, comfort, spaciousness, maritime traditions.

Any other HAL ship for me? No!

Noordam? Are you joking??

So when someone says "I will/won't cruise on HAL" my question is always - which HAL are you talking about?

 

2. I set my foot on a cruise ship with understanding that due to weather or technical conditions (or other issues beyond control) the ship will or will not stop anywhere, and it's not within my competence to criticize the Capitan.

 

Windy departure - watch this video!

 

Another video to remember - In the port that was not "missed".

 

Sorry about missing Monaco.

Cote D'Azur is a highlight of Med. cruises for me.

 

3. Toilet/shower problems do happen.

However, all possible measures must be done to fix the problem. All the inconveniences suffered by the passengers must be reasonably compensated to customers' satisfaction.

No exception!

 

Hope the OP will have the problems solved and enjoy the rest of the cruise!

[shrimp56]

Here are corrected urls:

[iancal]

You will always be more likely to get AC or plumbing issues with older ships and with ships where cabins have been added.

 

HVAC and plumbing systems deteriorate over time. The ship was specifically designed for the orginal number of cabins. Does anyone really think that when HAL adds cabins that they bother re-engineering and upgraded sections of the HVAC and plumbing. The increased capacity simply get shared with the others.

They do as little as possible to get the ship back in revenue service...with the additional new cabins.

 

Like cruisetail, we select by ship. We avoid older ships, especially those with a history of poor maintenance or customer complaints about HVAC or plumbing.

 

We would not consider a ship that has been modified to accommodate additional cabins unless it was a complete rebuild (vs a quickie drydock).

 

There are just too many good choices, cruise lines and cruise ships, out there to be bothered with that, or to take a chance. Noordam was on our list but were not aware of the addition of more cabins and the decrease in deck space.

[Tapi]

A decision was made by the captain and HAL corporate to cancel the port and save money.

 

You cancel the best stop on the cruise to save money! We are now sitting a few miles off of Monaco in brilliant sunshine and calm seas. Thanks! This is utter BS.

 

This idiot captain could have stayed out from the port for an hour or two, then returned to Monaco. However, he decided to be a corporate hack and save the wonderful company some money, as we were told it would cost too much to return. An absolute terrible decision that involves nothing with safety and everything with the bottom line.

 

The safety excuse is just that, nothing but an excuse. I could take a rowboat in and be just fine.

 

I don't want to trivialize the negative things that you've encountered (I know that I'd be unhappy as well),

 

But as an Airline Captain, I do want to address the decision to cancel Monaco. What you're describing here seems like a very wise and reasonable decision. I have been in many situations like the one you describe where a flight has been cancelled, delayed or diverted on what seems like a perfectly beautiful day. The reaction from several passengers is always similar to yours: "They canceled to save money!" "They are lying to us!" or "They dont care about us!"

 

These statements are, in the most part, as far from the truth as you can get. There are SO MANY variables that go into making a decision of this magnitude, that not even the CEO of a company fully comprehends how the final decision is reached. I'm not kidding.

 

I know that you mention having the inside scoop on how the decision was "really" made. With all due respect, unless your source is the Captain himself or someone sitting in HAL's equivalent of Operations Control, I would consider the information to lack accuracy.

 

More than once I've had to explain to an irate passenger why the flight is canceled when there are blue skies outside the window. And it's very hard to make them understand when they are fixated on the "they canceled to save money" argument. Most of the time, a cancelation means lost revenue, and I mean A LOT of lost revenue. I can only assume that on a cruise ship the losses are magnified. It's a decision that hurts everybody. There's lost revenue for the cruise line, shore excursion operators, local vendors, along with the potential lost revenue from unhappy passengers who, like you, may misdirect their anger and choose not to cruise on HAL again.

 

To think that this type of decision is made out of greed, and not for your own safety and everybody else around you, is misguided and ill founded.

 

Once again, not trying to minimize everything else you've experienced, but I felt that I needed to address this point.

[SilvertoGold]

Really unfortunate about the toilet problems, but they are vacuum systems and there is likely an air leak. The toilet will flush, as it is doing after a delay, once the pressure builds up to the right level. No doubt HAL will get this fixed but these are very difficult leaks to find in the system. If you can't find the leak, you can't fix it. Lickily your toilet does flush!

 

I am pleased that the Captain is so concerned with safety. You need to have more respect for his knowledge and responsibility (cf. Costa Concordia).

 

No cruise line wants to cancel a port. It does not happen all that often. Can you imagine how much HAL lost on all those shorex booked?

 

Hope your cruise improves!