Canceling gratuity

[jimmy2x]

When we cruise we pay the HSC without question, and we don't complain about it. We tip extra to those folks (like room stewards, favorite waiters, bar help, etc.) who really made an extra effort to make our trip special and comfortable. I would never DREAM of removing the HSC. The staff works hard on those ships, and deserve the money, IMO. I can't believe that a cruiser would think removing the HSC was okay, but that's just me.

 

It is not just you.:) Could not have possibly said it better.

[RuthC]

I actually look at it as less than the same thing.

 

If you go to a restaurant the tip for "normal" service is 15%. BAD service still gets 10% and excellent service gets 20%.

 

With that base in mind, $12 per person per day is ONLY about 10% of the average daily cost of a cruise.

Not so much in amounts, Mary, as in principle. If you tip the wait staff in landside restaurants, then it is a natural progression to do the same onboard a ship, when warranted. The US is a tipping culture, so for Americans to be so resistant to the idea of gratuities (by any other name) being an additional expense is beyond me.

 

I do disagree with your premise that the cruise fare should be the basis for the %-age, as some of that fare is for things I would not tip for, such as fuel, insurance, things that have nothing to do with service staff. But I do get your point that the amount of Hotel Service Charge is quite reasonable considering what it does cover.

[AlohaPride]

Not so much in amounts, Mary, as in principle. If you tip the wait staff in landside restaurants, then it is a natural progression to do the same onboard a ship, when warranted. The US is a tipping culture, so for Americans to be so resistant to the idea of gratuities (by any other name) being an additional expense is beyond me.

 

I do disagree with your premise that the cruise fare should be the basis for the %-age, as some of that fare is for things I would not tip for, such as fuel, insurance, things that have nothing to do with service staff. But I do get your point that the amount of Hotel Service Charge is quite reasonable considering what it does cover.

 

We are completely agreed. I don't think it should be a % of the cruise fare. It was just my way of pointing out that we are still paying far less in "tip" on our cruise than we would in a restaurant where we pay a % on food that also has markup for insurance, rent, food, chef's salary, etc. I think what we pay in HSC is what we would pay for BAD service in a restaurant (10%) and that good and excellent service deserves even more.

[Irish Eyes Are Sailing]

It is not just you.:) Could not have possibly said it better.

 

 

Thanks. As a former PA native, I salute you!:)

[jtl513]

sorry John - I missed that - but you know what, I wouldn't be surprised if there isn't some sort of note made and passed on.

 

My reason for this is if there is letter waiting for you in your room from the HM because you wrote Seattle (whether good/bad) or made notes on your survey from the last cruise (whether good/bad), the odds are they also know this as well.

Okay, HAL may keep a note on your file, and may pass it on to your current HM ... but would he then pass it down to your cabin and MDR stewards on day 1? I don't think that would be a wise move, because it could influence how they treat you on the current cruise.

 

I can see that it would be helpful if a HM can see that somebody is a "habitual remover", and not be harsh on stewards when it happens again. :)

[erewhon]

I actually look at it as less than the same thing.

 

If you go to a restaurant the tip for "normal" service is 15%. BAD service still gets 10% and excellent service gets 20%.

 

 

As I live in a country where it is not normal to tip, why tip for BAD service?

How do you define bad, normal and excellent service?

[Ians Grandma]

Personally, I only tip for good service. I don't understand why anyone would tip for bad service.

[RJ2002]

As I live in a country where it is not normal to tip, why tip for BAD service?

How do you define bad, normal and excellent service?

 

Google the phrase "tipping in the US" and you'll get all sorts of links to discussions of the tipping norms here.

 

A 10% tip for "bad" service is frequently mentioned. It is also mentioned that someone should feel no obligation to tip for poor service.

 

I would say the definition of bad, normal and excellent service would be the same in the US as your country.

[jresn02]

well on the our last trip on the Eurodam my wife almost got poisoned to death (she is allergic to Nuts). Although we took all the precautions one can take outlined by HAL to prevent it. The dinner the first night in the main dining room had Prime rib and Green beans on the menu. Knowing that string beans often come with Nuts my wife asked (as she does before every meal regardless of the menu) and was assured NO nuts. The menu reinforced this. Well the food came and we began eating when I noticed what appeared to be ALMONDS in the string beans. My wife thought it was Garlic slices and began to eat them when at the last minute they tingled her lips and she spit it out. She began to get sick and lets just say the rest of the night was not pleasant. I tried to get the attention of the Manager of the Dining room and called 3x times on our first 6 days. We were on a VERY intensive port cruise so we were gone most of the days. Finally on day 4 we got a card saying to call the front desk (we had not eaten now in the main dining room since that day because nobody would talk to us about it). We had been paying to eat the supplemental meals where we could speak directly with the Restaurant manager. When I called I explained NOBODY Had called our room and if they did when we were gone...they sure didn't leave any Vm's for us. They didn't deny nobody had called. After day 7 we got off the cruise early as I was shocked nobody cared about trying to fix this or work with us about her situation. Every time we tried to speak with someone in the evening they were always Too Busy. Figured getting off the ship would get someone's attention, but nobody cared so we walked. We figured if we couldn't eat at the Main Dining room we might as well not stay on board as eating at the specialty places weren't cheaper than eating on shore.

 

So we didn't leave any tip for the dining room staff and I filled out the form at the front desk. When I did this despite explaining WHY I was doing it the lady became a MAJOR bitch. On the trip we had given our room steward hundreds of euros so maybe he had to turn them in or maybe he played dumb. Who knows. I was not about to tip the dining room staff under any situation. We did tip at each specialty restaurant as if we were in the states after each meal. Likewise the room service in the AM.

 

 

HAL did try to compensate us for this issue when we got back to the states, but NEVER apologized for publishing a menu that didn't list ALMONDS on it (although other dishes with nuts/peanuts were marked) or having someone make it their responsibility to speak with us about it to insure it wouldn't happen again. They instead listed the procedure to follow if we join them again. We did follow the EXACT procedure before and it didn't work so not sure why they would just give us a canned answer of what to do in the future. Very disappointing and why we didn't tip.

[Wakepatrol]

well on the our last trip on the Eurodam my wife almost got poisoned to death (she is allergic to Nuts). Although we took all the precautions one can take outlined by HAL to prevent it. The dinner the first night in the main dining room had Prime rib and Green beans on the menu. Knowing that string beans often come with Nuts my wife asked (as she does before every meal regardless of the menu) and was assured NO nuts. The menu reinforced this. Well the food came and we began eating when I noticed what appeared to be ALMONDS in the string beans. My wife thought it was Garlic slices and began to eat them when at the last minute they tingled her lips and she spit it out. She began to get sick and lets just say the rest of the night was not pleasant. I tried to get the attention of the Manager of the Dining room and called 3x times on our first 6 days. We were on a VERY intensive port cruise so we were gone most of the days. Finally on day 4 we got a card saying to call the front desk (we had not eaten now in the main dining room since that day because nobody would talk to us about it). We had been paying to eat the supplemental meals where we could speak directly with the Restaurant manager. When I called I explained NOBODY Had called our room and if they did when we were gone...they sure didn't leave any Vm's for us. They didn't deny nobody had called. After day 7 we got off the cruise early as I was shocked nobody cared about trying to fix this or work with us about her situation. Every time we tried to speak with someone in the evening they were always Too Busy. Figured getting off the ship would get someone's attention, but nobody cared so we walked. We figured if we couldn't eat at the Main Dining room we might as well not stay on board as eating at the specialty places weren't cheaper than eating on shore.

 

So we didn't leave any tip for the dining room staff and I filled out the form at the front desk. When I did this despite explaining WHY I was doing it the lady became a MAJOR bitch. On the trip we had given our room steward hundreds of euros so maybe he had to turn them in or maybe he played dumb. Who knows. I was not about to tip the dining room staff under any situation. We did tip at each specialty restaurant as if we were in the states after each meal. Likewise the room service in the AM.

 

 

HAL did try to compensate us for this issue when we got back to the states, but NEVER apologized for publishing a menu that didn't list ALMONDS on it (although other dishes with nuts/peanuts were marked) or having someone make it their responsibility to speak with us about it to insure it wouldn't happen again. They instead listed the procedure to follow if we join them again. We did follow the EXACT procedure before and it didn't work so not sure why they would just give us a canned answer of what to do in the future. Very disappointing and why we didn't tip.

 

 

So you were eating in the Pinnacle every night speaking with the restaurant manager and all was well? So then you got off the ship early?

How early? But you ordered room service and took a chance on that?

[Randyk47]

The more I read this thread and think about the whole tipping or gratuity or Hotel Service Charge business the more I like the idea of just charging sufficient enough fares to provide the staff and crew a good wage. Do away with the HSC and sincerely discourage out of hand tipping. Maybe do what at least one line does and that if one really wants to "tip" then suggest the gratuity go into a crew fund that's used to enhance crew parties and special events. May even be used, if I understand what I read on that line's section here, to support crew members when there is a family or personal emergency. I have no idea how well or not so well that actually works in reality, I'm sure there are stories, but on the surface it sounds pretty good. Now I've only cruised on that line once but I'll have to say it was not evident on our cruise there were no direct tips expected nor was the potential donation to the crew fund pushed. If it hadn't have been for reading about it on Cruise Critic I wouldn't have known about it. Now I know some here are going to say "well luxury lines charge more so they can pay their crew and staff more". Can't say I can debate that, it sounds reasonable. Others will say "that's all fine and good but I can't afford luxury line fares". Got that, understand that though I'd be more than happy to discuss that offline as that does break down at the higher cabin categories. The point is that it works, or appears to work, and in my mind and for me is actually a more "honest" approach in the sense that you pay for what you get.

[jresn02]

So you were eating in the Pinnacle every night speaking with the restaurant manager and all was well? So then you got off the ship early?

How early? But you ordered room service and took a chance on that?

 

 

The Manager in the all 3 specialty restaurants had nothing to do with the main dining room management. The Manager of Tamarind grill was very helpful in making sure we were nut free (we ate there all but 1night), but in the end never could get someone to address the issues in the MDR. We got room service and my wife eat cereals and bread and fruit to be safe and didn't take any chances with hot food. WE never ate lunch on the boat. We got off 4 nights early.

 

HAL Never owned up to the almonds not being labeled in the string beans. Maybe they were worried about a lawsuit?!?

 

On a side note, there were Mixed Nuts spread all over a cheese platter on the outside deck one evening without any sign or notice as well. They are playing with fire imho.

[Tampa Girl]

The Manager in the all 3 specialty restaurants had nothing to do with the main dining room management. The Manager of Tamarind grill was very helpful in making sure we were nut free (we ate there all but 1night), but in the end never could get someone to address the issues in the MDR. We got room service and my wife eat cereals and bread and fruit to be safe and didn't take any chances with hot food. WE never ate lunch on the boat. We got off 4 nights early.

 

HAL Never owned up to the almonds not being labeled in the string beans. Maybe they were worried about a lawsuit?!?

 

On a side note, there were Mixed Nuts spread all over a cheese platter on the outside deck one evening without any sign or notice as well. They are playing with fire imho.

 

 

If the nuts are plainly visible, why is a sign necessary? For that matter, the almonds should have been a clue. It also doesn't seem that the problems were with the MDR. The stewards don't cook the food. If you removed the automatic gratuity because the food was not plainly labeled, you were penalizing other staff who had nothing to do with the problem.

[OVgirl]

well on the our last trip on the Eurodam my wife almost got poisoned to death (she is allergic to Nuts). Although we took all the precautions one can take outlined by HAL to prevent it. The dinner the first night in the main dining room had Prime rib and Green beans on the menu. Knowing that string beans often come with Nuts my wife asked (as she does before every meal regardless of the menu) and was assured NO nuts. The menu reinforced this. Well the food came and we began eating when I noticed what appeared to be ALMONDS in the string beans. My wife thought it was Garlic slices and began to eat them when at the last minute they tingled her lips and she spit it out. She began to get sick and lets just say the rest of the night was not pleasant. I tried to get the attention of the Manager of the Dining room and called 3x times on our first 6 days. We were on a VERY intensive port cruise so we were gone most of the days. Finally on day 4 we got a card saying to call the front desk (we had not eaten now in the main dining room since that day because nobody would talk to us about it). We had been paying to eat the supplemental meals where we could speak directly with the Restaurant manager. When I called I explained NOBODY Had called our room and if they did when we were gone...they sure didn't leave any Vm's for us. They didn't deny nobody had called. After day 7 we got off the cruise early as I was shocked nobody cared about trying to fix this or work with us about her situation. Every time we tried to speak with someone in the evening they were always Too Busy. Figured getting off the ship would get someone's attention, but nobody cared so we walked. We figured if we couldn't eat at the Main Dining room we might as well not stay on board as eating at the specialty places weren't cheaper than eating on shore.

 

So we didn't leave any tip for the dining room staff and I filled out the form at the front desk. When I did this despite explaining WHY I was doing it the lady became a MAJOR bitch. On the trip we had given our room steward hundreds of euros so maybe he had to turn them in or maybe he played dumb. Who knows. I was not about to tip the dining room staff under any situation. We did tip at each specialty restaurant as if we were in the states after each meal. Likewise the room service in the AM.

 

 

HAL did try to compensate us for this issue when we got back to the states, but NEVER apologized for publishing a menu that didn't list ALMONDS on it (although other dishes with nuts/peanuts were marked) or having someone make it their responsibility to speak with us about it to insure it wouldn't happen again. They instead listed the procedure to follow if we join them again. We did follow the EXACT procedure before and it didn't work so not sure why they would just give us a canned answer of what to do in the future. Very disappointing and why we didn't tip.

 

If you had such a serious consequence to their menu description and had medical help, I'm surprised that management wasn't more involved with the rest of your diningroom choices. Usually, if there is a medical emergency, they will constantly ask about the person's condition.

[sun~]

I have SEVERE food allergies. Not once, not ever am I ever going to trust anyone to make sure I am not served a food that will cause me a reaction. I do not eat at salad bars or buffets. I read the menus very carefully, because surprise surprise the ingredients ARE there. Also, if there is a food that will cause me a reaction somewhere else on the menu, I will probably have very limited choices that night. I take full responsibility for my real, honest to goodness food allergies that I have verified with working with an allergy doctor.

 

BTW peanuts are not nuts, they are legumes. Cooked or roasted tree nuts such as almonds or hazelnuts will almost never cause a reaction. They get changed chemically in the process. It drives me absolutely bonkers when I see people spouting off about allergies and have no clue of the facts.

 

It is NEVER the responsibility of a waiter, cook or restaurant manager to prepare food for my allergies. I think it is ridiculous that tips would be removed for a passenger's personal problem.

 

Any one with real anaphylacic food allergies knows to take responsibility for themselves.

[jresn02]

If you had such a serious consequence to their menu description and had medical help, I'm surprised that management wasn't more involved with the rest of your diningroom choices. Usually, if there is a medical emergency, they will constantly ask about the person's condition.

 

 

We didn't get medical help. My wife has drugs she can take and inject. That was my point we were shocked nobody cared when we told them. I could get the asst manager or the maître d's attention's attention as they were on the floor at dinner, but these are the same people who we had already met with prior to sail away who screwed it up once. Understandably it was during dinner time and like I said we were first off the boat each AM, but really nobody seemed to care.

 

Anyone else remember getting Almonds on their string beans on the Eurodam (First night of cruise). Check the menu...No Nuts!

[Tampa Girl]

Kudos to you! How refreshing to hear of someone taking responsibility for their own condition.

[sail7seas]

They may get a few hours in a port, but I don't think any get full days unless they're sick! :(

 

Crew sometimes actually have some nice shore excursions arranged for them by the ship. Sometimes it is a reward for outstanding performance, sometimes it's a special treat for a particular group on a rotating basis,,,,,,, We have seen large groups of crew who get to see the fabulous sights all of us want to see and do. And I LOVE when we see that.

 

 

 

 

Another question I've been wondering about, is whether the crew on your current cruise know that you have removed the HSC from you last cruise? I don't think I've seen anyone post about this.

Just curious.

 

 

Yes, they know.

Not only do they know but their supervisors question them as to what they can do better to improve the service so the guest would want to honor the HSC. They are held answerable for guests who do that. They also have a posted list so everyone knows if they receive any tips outside of HSC from any guests whose names are on that list, they are required to turn it into the pool.

 

Yes, they know!

 

[OVgirl]

We didn't get medical help. My wife has drugs she can take and inject. That was my point we were shocked nobody cared when we told them. I could get the asst manager or the maître d's attention's attention as they were on the floor at dinner, but these are the same people who we had already met with prior to sail away who screwed it up once. Understandably it was during dinner time and like I said we were first off the boat each AM, but really nobody seemed to care.

 

Anyone else remember getting Almonds on their string beans on the Eurodam (First night of cruise). Check the menu...No Nuts!

 

I think you should have gotten the medical staff involved in this situation. If not for your own sake, then for the sake of all the other cruisers on board. Perhaps, you didn't think about that.

[sun~]

Kudos to you! How refreshing to hear of someone taking responsibility for their own condition.

 

What a shocker eh?

[jresn02]

I think you should have gotten the medical staff involved in this situation. If not for your own sake, then for the sake of all the other cruisers on board. Perhaps, you didn't think about that.

 

Don't really want to rehash everything...the point on topic is why we chose to cancel the tips. We were trying to get someone's attention.

 

Hal gave us some GC to use on a future cruise which were generous, but really a letter explaining how possibly this error occurred would have gone further. I have a 3 year old allergic to peanuts and Nuts...he might not have been so lucky.

 

This is the only time I cancelled tips on 10-15 cruises I have been on.

[RuthC]

Don't really want to rehash everything...the point on topic is why we chose to cancel the tips. We were trying to get someone's attention.

Unfortunately, the attention your action received was not the attention you needed. All that happened was stewards who had little or nothing to do with the incident were penalized, while those in charge of seeing that something like this does not happen again were left in the dark.

[Wakepatrol]

The Manager in the all 3 specialty restaurants had nothing to do with the main dining room management. The Manager of Tamarind grill was very helpful in making sure we were nut free (we ate there all but 1night), but in the end never could get someone to address the issues in the MDR. We got room service and my wife eat cereals and bread and fruit to be safe and didn't take any chances with hot food. WE never ate lunch on the boat. We got off 4 nights early.

 

HAL Never owned up to the almonds not being labeled in the string beans. Maybe they were worried about a lawsuit?!?

 

On a side note, there were Mixed Nuts spread all over a cheese platter on the outside deck one evening without any sign or notice as well. They are playing with fire imho.

 

 

What did getting off the ship 4 days early solve?

[NMLady]

Don't really want to rehash everything...the point on topic is why we chose to cancel the tips. We were trying to get someone's attention.

 

Hal gave us some GC to use on a future cruise which were generous, but really a letter explaining how possibly this error occurred would have gone further. I have a 3 year old allergic to peanuts and Nuts...he might not have been so lucky.

 

This is the only time I cancelled tips on 10-15 cruises I have been on.

 

By removing the tips you also penalized non-dining room people who would have shared in that tip pool, including your cabin stewards who would have to turn in any money you gave them so it could be put in the pool.

 

You should have gotten the Medical Dept involved. Then HAL would have taken it more seriously.

[jresn02]

By removing the tips you also penalized non-dining room people who would have shared in that tip pool, including your cabin stewards who would have to turn in any money you gave them so it could be put in the pool.

 

You should have gotten the Medical Dept involved. Then HAL would have taken it more seriously.

 

 

If you read my post I tipped everyone in EURO's including my room steward.