Female Butlers

[CathyCruises]

Some of you take life WAY too seriously. :cool: I have never claimed a female shouldn't be a butler just that I have a preference, and no I don't feel one bit bad about the fact that I would prefer a male butler, I also prefer the salesperson at the make-up counter to be female :eek: Lately some stores have male salespeople in the female clothing department - and I'm not a fan of that either. Comparing a masseuse to a butler to me is the same - both are service providers - dh would ask for a female masseuse - I would take female first but would not refuse a male. For those that had to bring up the race issue - to me that is SAD, it has nothing to do with the conversation.

 

Thank you to those of you have actually experienced a female butler and have glowing reviews.

 

The saddest thing is that you don't even see anything wrong with your line of thinking. . .in an ideal world, everyone is treated and respected equally regardless of race, gender, political or religious affiliation, sexual preference, income level, etc. Obviously we're not there yet, but some of us are working toward that goal and have hope for the future, that we may all be informed and enlightened.

 

To post such highly prejudicial comments in a public forum without even realizing the implications of what you are saying makes me despair for the chances that this will ever be so :(

Edited January 7, 2014 by CathyCruises

[wvufan]

The first time a female physicians assistant did a DRE on me I got over my archaic gender/job role assumptions and preferences.

 

Happy Sails to You

 

OOOEEE :D:D Bob and Phyl

[Fouremco]

Some of you take life WAY too seriously. :cool: I have never claimed a female shouldn't be a butler just that I have a preference, and no I don't feel one bit bad about the fact that I would prefer a male butler, I also prefer the salesperson at the make-up counter to be female :eek: Lately some stores have male salespeople in the female clothing department - and I'm not a fan of that either. Comparing a masseuse to a butler to me is the same - both are service providers - dh would ask for a female masseuse - I would take female first but would not refuse a male. For those that had to bring up the race issue - to me that is SAD, it has nothing to do with the conversation.

 

Thank you to those of you have actually experienced a female butler and have glowing reviews.

In your initial post you admit that your attitude is sexist:

 

I realize it is sexist - but I'm going to be disappointed to have a female butler.

 

Now that people have agreed with you and pointed out how it is wrong in so many different ways, you have become defensive, but really, what type of reaction did you expect from other members? Were you hoping that they'd tell you that it was OK and assuage your guilty feelings for being sexist?

[Jane2357]

The saddest thing is that you don't even see anything wrong with your line of thinking. . .in an ideal world, everyone is treated and respected equally regardless of race, gender, political or religious affiliation, sexual preference, income level, etc. Obviously we're not there yet, but some of us are working toward that goal and have hope for the future, that we may all be informed and enlightened.

 

To post such highly prejudicial comments in a public forum without even realizing the implications of what you are saying makes me despair for the chances that this will ever be so :(

 

Oh for goodness sake - so now the assumption is that I won't respect a female butler? I am stating a PREFERENCE. We aren't talking about race, religion, politics or gender - to deny anyone a position BASED on that criteria is wrong - I'm speaking of MY preference. I've had male and female doctors of different races - I've friends and family that are gay - a daughter that is a farmer - so why don't we stop trying to drag other issues into the topic which is MY preference of a male butler.

[CathyCruises]

Oh for goodness sake - so now the assumption is that I won't respect a female butler? I am stating a PREFERENCE. We aren't talking about race, religion, politics or gender - to deny anyone a position BASED on that criteria is wrong - I'm speaking of MY preference. I've had male and female doctors of different races - I've friends and family that are gay - a daughter that is a farmer - so why don't we stop trying to drag other issues into the topic which is MY preference of a male butler.

:confused: OMG.

[yogimax]

Forget the male and female stuff.

 

For me, I wouldn't want a butler at all. Talk about equality and going back 100 years, I would be totally uneasy in what I liken to a master/slave relationship.

[Wine-O]

The saddest thing is that you don't even see anything wrong with your line of thinking. . .in an ideal world, everyone is treated and respected equally regardless of race, gender, political or religious affiliation, sexual preference, income level, etc. Obviously we're not there yet, but some of us are working toward that goal and have hope for the future, that we may all be informed and enlightened.

 

To post such highly prejudicial comments in a public forum without even realizing the implications of what you are saying makes me despair for the chances that this will ever be so :(

 

The saddest thing is the OP has not mentioned any of that crap you mention in your post. Did you just make that stuff up? She just prefers a male butler. I prefer a male waiter. Has nothing to do with treating and respecting equally regardless of race, gender, political or religious affiliation or sexual preference, blah blah blah.

 

You people are just too funny, and I rest my case. :D:D:D

[Fouremco]

We aren't talking about race, religion, politics or gender

You aren't talking about gender???

[Lsimon]

You butler won't have a British accent, won't be wearing tails and a bowler hat, and will not be named Jeeves. They will likely be someone who previously was a cabin steward who did very good work and wanted to be a butler. No reason it should be male any more than a waiter, cabin steward, singer, clerk at guest relations desk or any other gender neutral job position should be male.

[chamima]

The saddest thing is the OP has not mentioned any of that crap you mention in your post. Did you just make that stuff up? She just prefers a male butler. I prefer a male waiter. Has nothing to do with treating and respecting equally regardless of race, gender, political or religious affiliation or sexual preference, blah blah blah.

 

You people are just too funny, and I rest my case. :D:D:D

 

 

Lighten up people! :D

 

I just "googled" butler

 

 

A butler is a domestic worker in a large household. In great houses, the household is sometimes divided into departments with the butler in charge of the dining room, wine cellar, and pantry. Some also have charge of the entire parlour floor, and housekeepers caring for the entire house and its appearance.[1] A butler is usually male,[2] and in charge of male servants, while a housekeeper is usually a woman, and in charge of female servants. Traditionally, male servants (such as footmen) were rarer and therefore better paid and of higher status than female servants. The butler, as the senior male servant, has the highest servant status. He can also be sometimes used as a chauffeur.

Edited January 7, 2014 by chamima

[Jane2357]

In your initial post you admit that your attitude is sexist:

 

 

 

Now that people have agreed with you and pointed out how it is wrong in so many different ways, you have become defensive, but really, what type of reaction did you expect from other members? Were you hoping that they'd tell you that it was OK and assuage your guilty feelings for being sexist?

 

I do believe that my view on this is sexist - that is why I said it. I don't think a preference for a male butler makes me a bad person - it is my personal preference and I was looking for others that have had the experience of a female butler. I don't have any "guilty" feelings. I don't dislike or disrespect anyone based on their sex, race or any other criteria. Do I have preferences - I do, if we get a female butler will I treat or tip her any different than a male - of course not. If I could select male or female - I'd pick the male. Could I request a male butler once on the ship - maybe - but would I? No.

[Jane2357]

You aren't talking about gender???

 

Oh yeah - got me there. Typing and not always reading.

[chamima]

Lighten up people! :D

 

I just "googled" butler

 

 

A butler is a domestic worker in a large household. In great houses, the household is sometimes divided into departments with the butler in charge of the dining room, wine cellar, and pantry. Some also have charge of the entire parlour floor, and housekeepers caring for the entire house and its appearance.[1] A butler is usually male,[2] and in charge of male servants, while a housekeeper is usually a woman, and in charge of female servants. Traditionally, male servants (such as footmen) were rarer and therefore better paid and of higher status than female servants. The butler, as the senior male servant, has the highest servant status. He can also be sometimes used as a chauffeur.

 

And another from Miriam Webster

 

Full Definition of BUTLER

1

: a manservant having charge of the wines and liquors

2

: the chief male servant of a household who has charge of other employees, receives guests, directs the serving of meals, and performs various personal services

»

 

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=butler&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs#channel=rcs&q=butler+definition&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

Edited January 7, 2014 by chamima

[Fouremco]

I do believe that my view on this is sexist - that is why I said it. I don't think a preference for a male butler makes me a bad person - it is my personal preference and I was looking for others that have had the experience of a female butler. I don't have any "guilty" feelings. I don't dislike or disrespect anyone based on their sex, race or any other criteria. Do I have preferences - I do, if we get a female butler will I treat or tip her any different than a male - of course not. If I could select male or female - I'd pick the male. Could I request a male butler once on the ship - maybe - but would I? No.

Jane, sexism by definition is gender discrimination. By stating that you are sexist, you are also stating that you are discriminatory. Adding now that you don't feel guilty about discriminating isn't helping your cause.

 

I don't think that continued posting will sway readers here, so why not accept the fact that the majority disagree with you on this topic and move on? Enjoy your cruise and leave the Eclipse in good shape for us when we embark on the day you disembark.

[Jane2357]

And another from Miriam Webster

 

Full Definition of BUTLER

1

: a manservant having charge of the wines and liquors

2

: the chief male servant of a household who has charge of other employees, receives guests, directs the serving of meals, and performs various personal services

»

 

 

https://www.google.com/search?q=butler&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=rcs#channel=rcs&q=butler+definition&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official

 

Karen - glad to know someone gets what I was saying. :D Don't worry - I've thick skin for an old gal.

[teecee60]

forget the male and female stuff.

 

For me, i wouldn't want a butler at all. Talk about equality and going back 100 years, i would be totally uneasy in what i liken to a master/slave relationship.

 

*b*i*n*g*o*

Edited January 7, 2014 by teecee60

[C 2 C]

Having said that, what's wrong with the OP wanting to have a male butler? I prefer a male waiter. I'm getting a little sick and tired of this politically correct environment we live in. If you don't agree with others, you are labeled a racist, sexist, bigot, or homophobe.

 

How dare you post a rational response? ;)

 

It's amazing how so many are truly cruel when they judge the opinion of others.

[Gracie115]

You could easily get a "Male" butler who stinks, we have, and the room next door have a great "female" butler.....so perhaps your "preference" should be more along the lines of, "I want a good butler"

 

Good luck either way. but you're going into with the wrong attitude...how lucky you are to have ANY butler at all.....:eek:

[Turtles06]

Lighten up people! :D

 

I just "googled" butler

 

 

A butler is a domestic worker in a large household. In great houses, the household is sometimes divided into departments with the butler in charge of the dining room, wine cellar, and pantry. Some also have charge of the entire parlour floor, and housekeepers caring for the entire house and its appearance.[1] A butler is usually male,[2] and in charge of male servants, while a housekeeper is usually a woman, and in charge of female servants. Traditionally, male servants (such as footmen) were rarer and therefore better paid and of higher status than female servants. The butler, as the senior male servant, has the highest servant status. He can also be sometimes used as a chauffeur.

 

Gosh, the men were paid better and of higher status. Imagine that. :rolleyes:

[bobandalice]

Really happy we only have a lowly veranda stateroom. We won't have to worry about it. And I can butle (that's what a butler does, right) for the wife for 14 days. She has no choice but to get a male butler. :rolleyes:

[ORV]

Happy New Year Ya'll;)

[Onessa]

. . . Do I have preferences - I do, if we get a female butler will I treat or tip her any different than a male - of course not. If I could select male or female - I'd pick the male. Could I request a male butler once on the ship - maybe - but would I? No.

 

You could easily get a "Male" butler who stinks, we have, and the room next door have a great "female" butler.....so perhaps your "preference" should be more along the lines of, "I want a good butler"

My thoughts exactly --

 

A few weeks back, DH was home during the day and the smoke detector in the basement went off, there was a small electrical fire! DH hit the sparking area with fire extinguisher while dialing 9-1-1.

 

Oddly enough, the first, first responder was female, as was the crew chief for the Public Service crew who came to turn the main power off, and the electrician our electrical contractor sent over to fix things up.

 

Is DH (or am I) "disappointed" that the fire fighter, utility crew chief, and electrician were not male? No, we are happy that they were skilled in their jobs - were able to keep the fire from spreading, shut down the power without anyone getting hurt, figure out what the problem was, and "fix" it -- all in a few hours so that we could get the furnace back up and running before the pipes froze!

 

If someone is able to do a job properly what that person looks like (skin color, height, gender, etc.) does not really matter to me.

Edited January 7, 2014 by Onessa

[deise17311]

I'm with you Jane!! People here get way too worked up over stuff...good lord everyone is allowed preferences without all the other garbage people dragged into this conversation

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[luvs2fly]

Jane, it's what your familiar with. There is nothing wrong with wanting a comfortable familiar feeling on your vacation.

[Jane2357]

I'm with you Jane!! People here get way too worked up over stuff...good lord everyone is allowed preferences without all the other garbage people dragged into this conversation

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

 

Thanks - if you go back and read that first post - surely I was making fun of myself - thus the Downton AbbEy comment and my overly romantic notion of a butler. ;) It is unfortunate that by expressing that I would be disappointed to get a female butler - it is then insinuated that I am also racist, a child hater and homophobic. Do we honestly think we can know someone for the small slices we see of them on posts? I've thick skin but yes - I'll defend myself against those accusations. Am I old fashioned - yes but not in everything. I'm the person that un-invited my own step mother to my daughter's wedding when she was upset about my gay step-sister attending with her partner. I'm the person that gave up my first class airline seat to someone in coach when I noticed that they needed to be near their ill and elderly mother. I know who I am. :D